- 4,652
- 2,462
Tbh I still don’t see why he is neither existing nor non existing,but even if he is,that’s only transdual type 1 at best,here is an example
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Arceus and Chaos
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
- Start date
- 3,881
- 1,113
-Arceus predates the concepts of the Pokemon verse
-Arceus exists outside and nonexistent to the Binary of existence and non-existence
-Arceus is made of the chaos that is nonexistent to the distortion world
are some of them for NEP type 2
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #83
Arceus should be Type 2 NEP because of it being composed of the chaos/void that predates creation, including Giratina who embodies a type 1 NEP realm according to Ex blog.
Counter is Arceus being just the 1st thing to exist after nonexistence and embodying nothingness only on a type 1 NEP level
- 9,998
- 5,218
Hm...Honestly, from the sound of things, it seems more likely that Arceus did indeed form out of nothingness, but that doesn't mean that he still is equivalent to nothingness. He was nothing and then became something out of that nothing.
Like, the phrasing of the text even supports this line of thought:
Like, the phrasing of the text even supports this line of thought:
Keep in mind, I am not particularly good with this higher level of theorizing, but from what I can gather, it seems that the nothingness coalesced into one place, and in that place it turned into the Egg from which Arceus was born. So, I will side with just Type 1 NEP for now. Of course, I could be dumb and am missing certain important details, but this is what I take of the arguments.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,345
- 3,295
I agree with at least NEP 1, neutral on NEP 2.
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #86
Issue here is that Type 2 NEP dudes can exist without a concept, and you're implying that Arceus suddenly became reliant to them from nowhere
- 16,927
- 4,844
Im still not getting this whole "became something out of nothing" point, as you can't just suddenly squeeze in "something" out of nothingness.
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #88
Type 1 NEP still relies on concepts, mind you, while Type 2 is basically without such, is literally the reason of why the types are separated.
- 3,046
- 2,598
That is the whole point of creatio ex nihilo. Arceus itself is said to have created the Creation Trio out of nothingness. So yes, it's possible to have something to appear out of nothingness for no reason other than it being some type of godly entity that is being born. A God appearing spontaneously out of nothingness is just a characteristic of said God.
- 16,927
- 4,844
A characteristic that should still count for it being non-existent though. And im not speaking about the CT being born, but Arceus. Using nothingness to make something is one thing, but gathering nothingness together to "make yourself"?
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #91
Yeah, but the issue is pretty much this
Arceus seems implied that is made of said void, not that it just appeared from such, since it's pretty much implied that that the void coalesced in one point to generate it.
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #92
Bump
- 339
- 94
*
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #94
Bump
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #95
Bump
- 3,000
- 3,461
man there's gonna come a time where arceus is gonna end up chillin with tier 1s
The_Pink_God
She/Her- 2,409
- 630
- 3,000
- 3,461
- 4,512
- 2,363
I've been rereading this a few times, in addition to Void Manipulation (which Arceus have now, but it is via upscaling Dusknoir, so I think another justification would be Arceus embodies it and then controls it, as we did with his justifications for its Life Manipulation by creating the Jewel of Life and upscaling Dialga), shouldn't Arceus also have Chaos Manipulation? Like, these descriptions make this explicit
Last edited:
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #100
Chaos = Void in context so no
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #101
Bump
- 12,552
- 2,508
I generally agree with this honestly. While the "egg" may have been formed from nothingness "intermingling together", it is never specified that Arceus itself is nothingness, just that that's where it originally came from.
- 16,927
- 4,844
I don't particularly have much of an opinion on the chaos stuff honestly. Id be fine with a likely as well if thats the best compromise on it.
- 6,971
- 4,225
My opinion hasn't changed, this isn't even a likely/possibly for the reasons the other staff have given.
- 16,927
- 4,844
Well in fairness the reasoning can be wrong. Which the opposition has explained and given just as much a viable argumentation against it.
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #107
People should seriously stop saying "I disagree because the staff said no", as these arguments can be wrong and already countered.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,345
- 3,295
it's also entirely possible people don't think their arguments are countered. 
- 15,419
- 5,014
He said it was because of the reasons given, not because staff said so. Given how I consider the power to be wrong for basic reasons, I believe there is some text comprehension to be improved for users here.
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #110
Are you saying that I can't comprehend basic stuff? You do know that is basically insulting me, right? Not surprised after other episodes which you were involved in Efi, really.
- 16,927
- 4,844
Could we, like, not go there please? The thread is going just fine (surprisingly), lets not add something like this into the mix.
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #113
Thread died. We should wait Giratina getting Type 1 NEP before.
- 4,512
- 2,363
Overall, wouldn't be much better first to make a CRT to give Giratina NEP Type 1 and then use it as evidence of support for Arceus' NEP (Type 1 or 2) to this thread?
- 12,440
- 4,573
- Thread starter
- #115
I think a whole new thread on the matter should be done, this became too long and didn't conclude nothing.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,366
No worries. I took care of it
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,366
What was born from the egg was The Pokémon Arcues. His True Form has always existed since. Ie. It has no beginning besides waking up from sleep mode and gaining awareness
Existence(Dialga, Palkia) and Anti-Existence/Nonexistence (Giratina) are alternate personalities of His Avatar. His True Form has always been, even before even the concept of something and nothing were a thing. In Simple Terms, the multiverse is him in manifest form. Everything in creation can be traced back to his Avatar. They're all connected to it, evident by the plates containing the essence of all creation and being fragments of him
Buddhist will call The Heart Nirgua Brahman, and Arceus Saguna Brahman.
Nirgua because his True Form lacks all attributes entirely. Existence and Nonexistence concept was not a thing even before you even begin to categorize him in the things that exist in each state. Even the Wuji cannot dissolve him into the undifferentiated state, and is rather contained inside him. It stands independently of all categories of things that exist, and things that do not exist
The Pokémon Arcues is him manifested. His True Form is not a God but akin to an Abstract Force that lies in the background of all creation but cannot be named.
He qualifies for Transduality Type 2, Acausality type 5 and Nep 2.
Existence(Dialga, Palkia) and Anti-Existence/Nonexistence (Giratina) are alternate personalities of His Avatar. His True Form has always been, even before even the concept of something and nothing were a thing. In Simple Terms, the multiverse is him in manifest form. Everything in creation can be traced back to his Avatar. They're all connected to it, evident by the plates containing the essence of all creation and being fragments of him
Buddhist will call The Heart Nirgua Brahman, and Arceus Saguna Brahman.
Nirgua because his True Form lacks all attributes entirely. Existence and Nonexistence concept was not a thing even before you even begin to categorize him in the things that exist in each state. Even the Wuji cannot dissolve him into the undifferentiated state, and is rather contained inside him. It stands independently of all categories of things that exist, and things that do not exist
The Pokémon Arcues is him manifested. His True Form is not a God but akin to an Abstract Force that lies in the background of all creation but cannot be named.
He qualifies for Transduality Type 2, Acausality type 5 and Nep 2.
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,014
- 3,189
necro
- 10,677
- 4,743
So you didn't have to necro a 1 year old thread because of itThe Buddhist lore in Pokémon intrigues me
Similar threads
