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Araragi upgrade

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No, this should not be done.

He, and similar characters, used to have NPI, but that was removed, because Hachikuji, as a ghost, doesn't actually demonstrate intangibility, and neither do other invisible supernatural characters in the series.

It's kind of hard to pull up scans of this, so what evidence would people want for this? Like, she never phases through walls, it's never stated or implied that touching her is some sort of special feat. She does have some minor feats indicating tangibility, like riding on an ordinary bike. (EDIT: This part used to say she ate ordinary food; this was a confusion of a few scenes. The anime showed them at a cafe, the same arc had another scene of Koyomi eating with a different character, and a later arc had Koyomi talking to Mayoi about the prospect of her eating. While they didn't bring up any intangibility as an issue, only her invisibility, she doesn't actually have a demonstration of eating food).

On the contrary, invisibility has pretty much the inverse (she's regularly shown and stated to be invisible, Koyomi and a few other characters being able to see her is treated as special).

I would also say that the information in the OP is bad. We don't use the manga, since it's very different from the LN and anime (it adapts arcs in a different order, adds a bunch of new scenes to them, and blends some arcs together, significantly changing the story). Plus, at the time those scans are from, Koyomi can see Hachikuji for reasons wholly unrelated to his own power; he can see her because he doesn't want to go home; anyone who doesn't want to can see her. He retains the ability to see ghosts because it's later revealed, around the time of Kabuki, that he can see Hachikuji despite not meeting that criteria due to being an aberration. Plus, it's incomplete, due to not including other characters who would gain NPI from this reasoning, including Shinobu Oshino, Yotsugi Ononoki, and Izuko Gaen.

Thanks for letting me know about this, but y'all shouldn't just FRA threads like this. It's kinda annoying how many bad Monogatari threads get FRAs when I look away.
 
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Agnaa said:
It's kind of hard to pull up scans of this, so what evidence would people want for this? Like, she never phases through walls, never has trouble interacting with tangible objects, it's never stated or implied that touching her is some sort of special feat. She does have some minor feats indicating tangibility, like eating ordinary food and riding on an ordinary bike.
Click to expand...
I would say that those are more than sufficient to disqualify him from having NPI.
 
Agnaa said:
No, this should not be done.

He, and similar characters, used to have NPI, but that was removed, because Hachikuji, as a ghost, doesn't actually demonstrate intangibility, and neither do other invisible supernatural characters in the series.

It's kind of hard to pull up scans of this, so what evidence would people want for this? Like, she never phases through walls, it's never stated or implied that touching her is some sort of special feat. She does have some minor feats indicating tangibility, like riding on an ordinary bike. (EDIT: This part used to say she ate ordinary food; this was a confusion of a few scenes. The anime showed them at a cafe, the same arc had another scene of Koyomi eating with a different character, and a later arc had Koyomi talking to Mayoi about the prospect of her eating. While they didn't bring up any intangibility as an issue, only her invisibility, she doesn't actually have a demonstration of eating food).

On the contrary, invisibility has pretty much the inverse (she's regularly shown and stated to be invisible, Koyomi and a few other characters being able to see her is treated as special).

I would also say that the information in the OP is bad. We don't use the manga, since it's very different from the LN and anime (it adapts arcs in a different order, adds a bunch of new scenes to them, and blends some arcs together, significantly changing the story). Plus, at the time those scans are from, Koyomi can see Hachikuji for reasons wholly unrelated to his own power; he can see her because he doesn't want to go home; anyone who doesn't want to can see her. He retains the ability to see ghosts because it's later revealed, around the time of Kabuki, that he can see Hachikuji despite not meeting that criteria due to being an aberration. Plus, it's incomplete, due to not including other characters who would gain NPI from this reasoning, including Shinobu Oshino, Yotsugi Ononoki, and Izuko Gaen.

Thanks for letting me know about this, but y'all shouldn't just FRA threads like this. It's kinda annoying how many bad Monogatari threads get FRAs when I look away.
Click to expand...
I don't think there is a need for evidence such as it doesn't pass through the wall or something like that for it to get npi, it is enough that it is not visible and it is a ghost because on the npi page it says "It should be noted that the ability to interact directly with spirits and other non-corporeal entities as if they were physical objects is generally considered Non-Physical Interaction and does not give the user the ability to manipulate them in other contexts." so this is enough again, and if you are using anime, this is something that exists in anime, so it should get it.
 
Mertullah said:
I don't think there is a need for evidence such as it doesn't pass through the wall or something like that for it to get npi, it is enough that it is not visible and it is a ghost because on the npi page it says "It should be noted that the ability to interact directly with spirits and other non-corporeal entities as if they were physical objects is generally considered Non-Physical Interaction and does not give the user the ability to manipulate them in other contexts." so this is enough again, and if you are using anime, this is something that exists in anime, so it should get it.
Click to expand...
No, this is incorrect. NPI, NON-PHYSICAL Interaction, is based entirely upon the ability to interact with intangible, incorporeal, or non-physical objects as if they were normal, solid objects.
So if the object in question is provably tangible and has anti-feats for being non-corporeal, then interacting with said object would not grant NPI. It doesn't matter if the object is a ghost or a spirit. Not all fictional verses treat souls as intangible or invisible by default.
For example, in Bleach souls are invisible, but not intangible. And in Naruto, souls are intangible, but not invisible. It's a case-by-case thing.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
No, this is incorrect. NPI, NON-PHYSICAL Interaction, is based entirely upon the ability to interact with intangible, incorporeal, or non-physical objects as if they were normal, solid objects.
So if the object in question is provably tangible and has anti-feats for being non-corporeal, then interacting with said object would not grant NPI. It doesn't matter if the object is a ghost or a spirit. Not all fictional verses treat souls as intangible or invisible by default.
For example, in Bleach souls are invisible, but not intangible. And in Naruto, souls are intangible, but not invisible. It's a case-by-case thing.
Click to expand...
Ah got it.. I think this crt should be turned off
 
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