Ao's avatar revision (D&D)

[Kaltias]

Why Ao'avatar is 4-A for having a robe that contains millions of stars?

The statement specifies that he is 12 feet tall, so unless there is some context i'm missing, those are obviously not actual stars, but the pattern of his dress.

He should be downgraded to whatever his next best feat/the next best feat he scales from is.

 

[Xulrev]

Upon reading his section, I realized something: his High 2-A key feat refers to being above any and all deities, when that's actually explicitly under his 'Ao's Avatar' information section in that book.

His Avatar needs upgraded to High 2-A since it's the avatar that can casually strip even Greater Deities of their power. The sentence preceeding it even leads in with discussing his avatar explicitly ("Theoretically, Ao's avatar can do anything"), then proceeds to detail examples of powers he has.

His avatar's next best feat is actually what his True Form key is, I'm realizing upon examining the evidence more thoroughly.

 

[Andytrenom]

Kal fails a downgrade in the most extreme way possible

 

[Kaltias]

Deities aren't high 2-A tho, his high 2-A feat is transcending them.

Although honestly if even his avatar is above any other deity, i don't know if he should have a key for that to begin with, it looks more like he's simply getting a body instead of using an avatar that limits his powers.

@Andy

You don't know how often this happened

 

[Andytrenom]

One day you'll try to downgrade someone to 10-B, but he'll end up 1-A instead

The statement seems good enough but of course, someone actually knowledgeable on the verse would have to approve the scaling

 

[Xulrev]

I'm one of like, 4 D&D guys on-site who consistently participate that's good enough right

I'll ask Qaw to go ahead and hop in this thread whenever he's available

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Yeah millions of stars is 4B not 4A

 

[Andytrenom]

That isn't really Kal's point Tenma

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah he shouldn't be 4-A. Either remove the key or change it to "At least 2-A" like with the LOP.

 

[Xulrev]

Well there we go. At least it was a warranted revision, can be more accurate now

 

[Qawsedf234]

For evidence of both I guess

• Beyond the Gods

• Ao's Avatar is the one who depowered the Gods

• Its noted that a Overdeity/Uberdeity are magnitudes beyond Gods

There's probably more, but the main ideas are that Overpowers are vastly above Greater Powers. So either Ao's avatar becomes "At least 2-A" for being more powerful than every Greater Deity in FR or we remove both keys and only make him "At least 2-A" (unless magnitudes above the Gods still translates to High 2-A).

 

[Qawsedf234]

Actually wait Overgods are beyond the laws of the multiverse, which does imply transcendence in some fashion. So probably "At least 2-A | High 2-A" works.

 

[Xulrev]

Does someone want to edit that then, his profile is locked and I just tried to do so and.....well that's obviously a no-go.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ask a Admin to open the page. Like Andy.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

this downgrade thread is weird for me purely because we're in a world where space can be compressed to the point where infinity is a marble but alright

I'm cool with changing his avatar to 2-A but depowering the gods is more hax than anything

 

[Qawsedf234]

So "2-A | High 2-A" rather than "At least 2-A | High 2-A"?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Works for me.

 

[Kaltias]

Again, is there anything implying that the avatar is weaker in any way instead of simply being a physical manifestation?

Because it really doesn't seem like it's something that needs a key, also because being completely beyond the other gods does imply that the power is the same and it's a "Ao creates a body" situation rather than having some sort of limitations.

 

[Antvasima]

Should I unlock the Ao (Dungeons and Dragons) page for you?

 

[Qawsedf234]

A god's avatar is just a smaller representation of its power. You can make multiple avatars, however, in 2E once you get to the realms of a full god you're more of a living concept than anything. So there's an arugment that Ao's avatar is just his manifestation of his total power like with Greater God Vecna .

So in total I do see where @Kaltias is coming from, so it may be better to just remove the first key in general and the powers that come with it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[Xulrev]

Just remove the first key and make it a general High 2-A overall and call it a day?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah basically

 

[Antvasima]

So should I unlock the page now, or do you need more input first?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Guess we can wait for Bambu to comment again.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean. You didn't need to, but yeah, feel free to outright remove the key since Ao's avatar seems to be a special case. I've got no problem with that particular line of reasoning.

Crazy that while every D&D CRT sets out to do a thing it always becomes something else about twenty messages in.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock Ao (Dungeons and Dragons) then. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It is edited, feel free to lock.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Nothing else, since this CRT was purely to address his avatar's tier. I'll close the thread, thanks for the time.