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Annoying dog and asriel downgrade

There isn't really anything implying she destroyed the full reality of the game directly. What I am looking at is if it links to the true reset, what she actually needs to destroy in order to have that effect on the player and whether or not it is just her destroying everything within the players reach.

Either way could be the case. However for annoying dog, when was he present at the end of genocide?
 
Yes, Chara destroyed the game.

And no, the AD is nowhere to be found at the end of Genocide.
 
There really isn't much suggesting that chara destroyed the game on top of its reality apart from the statement of "this world" which can mean anything. Saying she destroyed all timelines including the ones flowey interacted with. For all we know destroying "the game" could just mean destroying realities the anomaly interacted with

Which is why it is important to look at what is required to cause that effect and the full effect things like the true reset actually have if that is what chara was performing (which is likely the case). It is still a high possibility she did destroy the full reality. But it does depend on the physics of the timelines

Annoying dog is there after a game crash and it is possible going by sans statement and other things in the game that it could be a feat of moving without time. Though it is hard to give a feat for appearing after a literal mistake in the game. What I think needs to be looked at is whether going by authors intent, the dog is actually the creator\toby fox or whether he is an author insert which throws back to toby like saikou mentioned
 
The link just showed the scene from the game where she performed the feat. It does not go against what I just said at all.

The writer has nothing to do with annoying dog in this situation. Here is a difference between being a joke that throws back to the author and literally being the author of the story
 
When has the Annoying Dog claimed to be Toby exactly?
 
Andytrenom said:
When has the Annoying Dog claimed to be Toby exactly?
Click to expand...
I'm almost certain they meant for it to be the other way around. As in, Toby Fox had claimed he is the Annoying Dog.
 
Sea, that is just her destroying game files which havent even shown to be canon gameplay mechanics. I just explained a scenerio where chara can destroy "the game" and leave unexplored timelines intact. Whether she actually does or not is unknown.

I dont think you understand the difference between an author insert and an actual author who exists beyond the scope of the verse. Being toby fox isnt enough. The only thing you brought in is annoying dog being referenced as the creator outside the game. whilst i personally think it is true, it is hard to say whether it qualifies for a solid 2-B rating by the wikis standards. I think maybe unknown possibly 2-B would be more suitable.
 
Azathoth should contact for the final inputs since he was primarily responsible for 2-C to 2-B tier and a primary Undertale Knowledgeable Members.

I thought I contacted Azathtoth day ago regarding the topic but I just realized that my post didn't save even when I try today. So, this task would fall to someone else.

Also, someone might need to contact a VS Battles Staff that are Administrators for evaluation b/c these staffs have the final say for CRT.
 
Have done all of that already. I have contacted azzy tho i am worried judging by his contrubition pattern that he may have just gone inactive for a few days 0_0
 
This intentional downplay is annoying. This isn't just "destroying game files". It's THE game files, all that make up the game. The only file not destroyed is herself, if I recall. There IS nothing to have left intact. It IS canon gameplay mechanics because that wouldn't have happened at all if it weren't. Heck, even Frisk leaving the game is canon.

The Annoying Dog is at least 2-B no matter what. What we're arguing on is High 2-A.
 
Super Ascended Sean Pazdera said:
This intentional downplay is annoying. This isn't just "destroying game files". It's THE game files, all that make up the game. The only file not destroyed is herself, if I recall. There IS nothing to have left intact. It IS canon gameplay mechanics because that wouldn't have happened at all if it weren't. Heck, even Frisk leaving the game is canon.
The Annoying Dog is at least 2-B no matter what. What we're arguing on is High 2-A.
Click to expand...
Forget High 2-A, that has already been rejected by pretty much everyone.

The AD is completely featless, as the "game" he was programming was most likely "the game Undertale" rhater than "all of the literal reality".
 
Gameplay files have never once been remotely cannon. Unless you want to convince me that 9999 attack asriel and -40000 defence mettaton neo is cannon. The player leaving quitting is cannon. Anyway this chara thing is derailing and should be saved for future revisions

High 2-A dog already got thanosed. We are discussing between 2-B and unknown
 
Not from what I've seen. Viewing things as fictional have meant transcending for the longest time, and for good reason. The Annoying Dog views Undertale as fictional.

"the game Undertale" IS "all of the literal reality".
 
1. I just gave two proofs above. He literally advertised Undertale on the Kickstarter, and the real life creator admitted to being the Annoying Dog.

2. People in Undertale, even by destroying everything and whatnot, only hurt Undertale itself. That means Undertale is their reality.
 
Okay sean, this is starting to get annoying. Im fine with you going onto discord or google plus and making posts like this. But just keep it off serious ctr's will you?

1. We are getting the admins to join the discussion to sort that out. Can you just be patient?

2. You obviously dont understand what we are talking about (or at least pretend not to). The point that has been made is that annoying dog is simply a monster within the reality of undertale who created a game in his living room which is the same as undertale as a throwback to toby fox. Not that he created the actual reality of undertale.

It is like someone in a dragon ball super filler scene creating an anime which perfectly replicates the events dragon ball super and then saying that man is the supreme being of dragon ball. That statement is obviously bs even if it said person were a representation of toryama since he is not affecting the actual reality of dragon ball. It is a completely different story if they viewed the actual reality of dragon ball super as fiction (e.g. toribot) but so far annoying dog is only showing the first example and not scaling the actual reality of undertale aside from the laying on the fabric thing which is arguably just normal reality warping

3. No. There is no evidence of this. Assuming you are right about the 2-B rating, he just programmed the game and viewed it as coding. He doesnt view himself programming a game as fiction. That is just headcannon
 
Anyway if you really do believe in what you are saying, i would highly advise you stop repeating yourself and just stop commenting for the time being unless you have something more productive to say. Because it is going to just make it stressful for admins to read and if anything, lower the chances of annoying dog keeping his 2-B rating at all. Im all for a 2-B annoying dog, but so far you are making the tier harder to justify with posts like this and making it seem even less illogical to allow his justifications remain.
 
You think I care that admins are coming to look at this? You believe that they, just from the fact that they're admins in the first place, means they suddenly know more about Undertale than I do?

The difference between me and the things I post elsewhere is that these aren't memes, and that I AM being serious right now. I have since Alpacino banned me from Discord for talking about Mortal Kombat.

The Annoying Dog has specifically mentioned that he is "Toby Fox, creator of Undertale!" Even if that WASN'T the game present in the Annoying Dog's room(which it likely is, as the game's box art perfectly matches the box art of Undertale for Switch and PS4), he would still be the creator of Undertale's reality and almost certainly sees it as fiction. Even without the "game creating" stuff, he was still powerful enough to grant Endgame Frisk infinity HP for a mere test.

I said the coding itself was fictional, not him creating the coding was fictional. And heck, the Annoying Dog was programming Deltarune's full version inside of Deltarune's Demon version.
 
1. No. I dont believe admins more than everyone else. They are here to look at the thread and see how well it fits the standards for the wiki.

Fair enough. But dont say i didnt warn ya.

2. The box in the room being undertale is the point that is being made. The argument being presented is that the dog is just creating a game which replicates undertale within its cosmology and is referred to toby as a gag. Him saying "im toby fox creator of undertale" and creating a game in the reality like my example explained would still make his statement true whilst not scaling him to the actual games reality itself. Also annoying dog never directly gave frisk infinite hp. It was there just to show that you cant die in the credits.

3. No. Coding itself isnt fictional or lower dimensional. We have discussed this. He just sees it as normal coding if he scales.
 
Why would the Annoying Dog create Undertale, and then a similar game within it? Why would he be advertising a fictional game in the first place instead of the game Toby literally made? And yes he did, because it was literally the Annoying Dog's test to see if Frisk was worthy of entering his room.
 
I think that Saikou made sense near the beginning of the thread. 2-B Undertale seems fine. However, it is best to ask Azathoth to comment here.
 
Why would the Annoying Dog create Undertale, and then a similar game within it?

No. He didnt. The point is that he didnt create undertale itself. He just created a game which replicates undertale as a gag throwing back to toby. How many ways do i have to explain this?

Why would he be advertising a fictional game in the first place instead of the game Toby literally made?

Have you been paying attention to this thread at all? Annoying dog is just creating a game which replicates undertale, within the games reality and occasionally acts like its creator as a throwback to toby. Him advertising the game of undertale (which can either mean his own game in the reality or the full reality) and then that advertisement being used for the trailer, which isnt even canon to undertale in the first place does not mean anything nor change this argument.

And yes he did, because it was literally the Annoying Dog's test to see if Frisk was worthy of entering his room.

Headcannon without proof. In the credits (which is likely not even canon gameplay) we only see asriel appear and roll the credits scene. If you dodge it the dogs room just unlocks. There is nothing implying that the annoying dog was the one who did this or actually gave frisk infinite hp which was again, just there to represent the fact that you cant die in the credits.
 
How would he have not created Undertale when he literally mentioned he did? And he's "throwing back to Toby" because he IS Toby, he's mentioned he is Toby and vice versa.

The Annoying Dog "acts like it's creator" because he IS Undertale's creator, and he wouldn't have advertised a fictional game that nobody would have known about, and he literally describes the aspects of Undertale in the same video. The Annoying Dog has no particular canon in the first place as some of his feats can literally be taken from Twitter, such as the fact that, as of 2018, his power multiplied by 10x because it was the Year of the Dog.

Why would it not be canon? The unopenable door wouldn't just open on it's own.
 
I'm just going to let one of the staff respond at this point. You are just turning this into a circular argument constantly resorting headcannon and constantly spamming "but he is he creator" whilst blatantly ignoring the point being made which I have explained to you countless times.

Burden of proof for the canon argument. There is nothing proving the credits canon in the first place. Saying trailers and tweets are canon is just starting to make me thing you are just playing your usual games as you do everywhere else.
 
Knocking the Dog down to 2-B seems fine.

Also, in regards to what Saikou said before in regards to timelines, there's probably a legitimate argument to be made for that, as well. But I guess that's a matter for later.
 
So you don't agree with the logic of unknown?

I would rather get annoying dog out the way here so i dont have to squeeze him into later revisions.

Also i would like to still downgrade any abilities that seem wanked.
 
Lmao, downplaying Undertale and getting frustrated every time I prove you wrong. The only points you've given can easily be debunked by the fact that your points are more headcanon than mine and that there's more proof than what you stated isn't true as to why the Annoying Dog is High 2-A.

The fact that it literally affects something outside of the credits due to it being a test is more than enough to prove it's canon. I'm using trailers and tweets because the Annoying Dog has feats from them.
 
Im getting frustrated because i am literally shoving the main point about unknown over 2-B down your throat a million times over whilst you completely miss it (likely on purpose) and insert random headcannon or giving information which doesnt even debunk the main point as a useless cover up, or just strawman and turn this into constant repetition and a circular argument. You havent debunked anything I have said nor given any reason as to why my points are headcannon.

A likely scenario has been presented which shows that 2-B annoying dog can only be done through certain speculation, showing that there is not enough proof to fully support 2-B, hence why he should have an unknown rating.

How would he have not created Undertale when he literally mentioned he did? Ive explained this to you countless times. He just created a game which replicates undertale. The game you see in his room is just a 3 dimensional game within the 3D world of undertale which as you explained is a copy of undertale. He created that game. It doesnt make him scale to the full reality. Unless explicitely shown.

And he's "throwing back to Toby" because he IS Toby, he's mentioned he is Toby and vice versa. Either you are being blatantly ignorant to the point being made, strawmanning on purpose or just refuse to understand what has been explained countless times. When the term "throwback to toby" is being used, it means he is a gag representing toby. Not the literal embodiment of toby himself. I explained this with a clear example earlier and im going to do it again and hopefully it will sink in.

(((It is like someone in a dragon ball super filler scene creating an anime which perfectly replicates the events dragon ball super and then saying that man is the supreme being of dragon ball. That statement is obviously bs even if it said person were a representation of toryama since he is not affecting the actual reality of dragon ball. It is a completely different story if they viewed the actual reality of dragon ball super as fiction (e.g. toribot) but so far annoying dog is only showing the first example and not scaling the actual reality of undertale)))

All the character of annoying dog did was create a game within the verse which functions like undertale (the exact way a normal human within dbz could go and create an anime which replicates the events of the dbz anime and even advertize it and not be the creator) and advertised it (assuming the advert as cannon). That was then used for the advert. It does not imply him to scale to the full reality at all.

The Annoying Dog "acts like it's creator" because he IS Undertale's creator, and he wouldn't have advertised a fictional game that nobody would have known about, and he literally describes the aspects of Undertale in the same video. There is no proof that he acts as the creator due to being the actual creator. The point is that he hasnt shown anything beyond simply being an author insert of toby as a joke referring to him as oppose to being the physical embodiment of toby and creating the full reality. This is what i have been telling you from the beginning. Your argument does not at all contradict the reasoning for annoying dog being unknown and doesnt provide solid evidence for annoying dog keeping his 2-B rating

The Annoying Dog has no particular canon in the first place as some of his feats can literally be taken from Twitter, such as the fact that, as of 2018, his power multiplied by 10x because it was the Year of the Dog. This completely contradicts your future point that annoying dog and the credits are a cannon part of the game. You are trying to claim he has no particular cannon and use his statements outside the game whilst arguing for him having canon feats within the game to try and upgrade him. Make up your mind dude. Is he cannon? Or not?

Why would it not be canon? The unopenable door wouldn't just open on it's own. The credits themselves appearing have never been referenced once as a canon gameplay mechanic nor do they tie in with the games story in any way. Well then. I guess by that logic every time an area opens after completing a task in undertale, someone else is manually doing it. It is not like solving the puzzle could ever be the direct cause of an area unlocking.

The fact that it literally affects something outside of the credits due to it being a test is more than enough to prove it's canon. I'm using trailers and tweets because the Annoying Dog has feats from them. Even if the credits were cannon and annoying dog did unlock his own room (even though he is too lazy to even fight you and it could have easily been a chain reaction), annoying dog unlocking his room when you dodge the credits does not mean that he manipulated the events of the credits. That is a false cause without any proof. You still havent given proof that frisk actually gained infinite hp and that it isnt just there to remind the player that they cant die (which is blatantly is). On top of that, the annoying dogs room is technically an easter egg area which doesnt line up with the story and on top of that, there is no ingame story based scenario where frisk gets thrown into an area where he has to dodge writing or anything on those lines. And no. A joke tweet is not proof.

There are so many flaws to using the credits for an actual argument (except saying what happened to the monsters shown story wise of course). Let alone using it for a scenario where annoying dog is controlling the credits as a test to seeing if frisk is worthy of entering his room just because that area unlocks.
 
Anyway. Most of this is just me speaking from saikous perspective since this argument is still just me trying to make you fully understand the arguments being presented.

I myself do have a few legitimate reasons why he should have an likely or possibly 2-B rating (alongside unknown) at the very minimum that i would like to put out along with some abilities revision.

However i cant do that when you are here, unable to understand the main point and breathing down my neck trying to keep annoying dog as tier 2 with reasoning that does not go against the point presented and only pretending like it does. So please sean, chill out, and please stop acting like i am trying to attack and downgrade undertale for the sake of downplay.

Ill take about a day or two
 
Time to get down to this

What we need to truly look at is what toby fox intended annoying dog in the actual game itself to be. Him portraying annoying dog as one thing outside of the game does not affect what he is inside the game.

For example, if i created an avatar of myself called postman who is a literal representation of myself that i posted about on paper, and then i programmed it into a game which for this instance is canonically a game as well. However postmans feats ingame is just doing nothing but delivering letters and in his spare time, creating video games which resemble the game i created. Whilst the character idea of postman in general is a literal representation of me, ingame I would have only programmed him to be a random npc who makes gag references to me and through my own intent, isnt some supreme being nor creator.

This is why you cant take information about a character outside its own series. Otherwise you are not focusing on what the character is supposed to be in that specific game and just focusing on the character idea in general which is just blatantly going against cannon material.

Anyway, the annoying dog only has the following feats

  • Creating a game which resembles undertale
  • Needing to patch holes in the fabric to fight the dog
  • Him talking about hardmode
  • Appearing in certain places and even being able to teleport in frisks inventory and in a neutral ending
  • Existing after a game crash
Patching the holes
This is status effect inducement, and to some extent reality warping, physics manipulation and data manipulation. He is able to fix patches supposedly in reality and stop you from fighting him until he does so. Ap wise this is unquantifiable as the scale he is doing this is unknown.

==Creating a game==

Nothing noteable as it doesnt scale to the reality itself

==Appearing in many places==

Being able to appear in multiple places individually does not give you omnipresence. At best this is just teleportation.

Appearing in hard mode
Here we see that annoying dog has some influence on the game as he created the game mode where he made all of the enemies tougher. There are two possibilities as to where this falls under authors intent. First being that annoying dog was just making everyone stronger and was messing around with the game a little bit (but not on some multiversal scale). Or that annoying dog was actually the creator of the game and is a legitimate developer that is adding an incomplete section of the game (which if finished would involve a possible amp for asriel in his fight as well).

Considering how the other characters are heavily implied to view him as the developer in that scene, and he is able to give everyone 4th wall awareness, it is more likely he was the game developer in that scene and is the creator and programmer of undertale.

However due to this not heavily being enforced anywhere else, it is safer to give him an unknown, possibly 2-B rating as the other scenario is still possible.
 
Anyway. Higher dimensional existance, large size type 9, accitental universe creation and space time manipulation should be removed.

Game files themselves are really not cannon and his acausality at best is a small possibility. His abilities above should be added as well.

His omnipresence should be changed to unknown fra and has never been implied. Lifting strength should be unknown as he has never done anything like viewing the actual reality on his computer as opposed to possibly just creating everything and treating it as his game

His explanation for durability should be altered

Stamina is unknown

Range should be a possibility

And some of his sumary and explanations should be altered as well as a lot of it is still based on major assumptions. I think it would be best if someone unlocks the profile for me. But only when we figure out what to do with this acausality.
 
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