Anima beyond fantasy revisions part 1: Gnosis 40 and the wake

[LazerDim8000]

First revision for the verse mainly intended on removing and adding some abilities.

DOWNGRADES​

Omega
Soul pillars grants this guy low 1c, but the tierring system has changed and even the creators are highly unsure if it would work on its intended targets.

Etheldrea
Has gnosis 40 abilities but isn’t one herself. rather, she’s a special natural being

Regeneration
Mid godly regeneration for beings of gnosis 35 and higher is unjustified and should be (if too vague) removed. Or possibly low-godly for being able to regenerate as long as their consciousness persists. although Individuals like the nameless, ergo, malekith, and druaga still retain godly regen

Ergo mundus
mid godly should be low-godly through possession

​

GNOSIS 40 ABILITIES​

Immortality type 9: Beings at this level of gnosis can raise many avatars

Immortality type 9 negation: explained here

Acausality type 1: Beings of gnosis 40 are completely unaffected by time based spells and are aware of loops and changes in time.

Acausality type 4: They have no ties to the physical nor spiritual world

Beyond dimensional existence type 1: Beings with Gnosis 40 possess the powers of gnosis 35 enabling them to ignore many rules of the soul flux including time, as they have no ties to the Physical or spiritual world. This makes them immune to time spells altogether as explained above.

GENERAL ADDITIONS​

Immeasurable lifting strength: scaling off of the nameless who can tank blows and impacts from the collective consciousness of the world, a fragment of existence itself.

Faster than light speed: all characters who can use zen are able to perform feats like riding beams of light and such. These are the beings who scale

Resistance to madness manipulation type 2: beings with enough existential presence or who pass the resistance check can ignore these spells

Resistance to plot manipulation: can resist these spells

DEMENTIA​

Nonexistent physiology and nonduality type 2: exists between reality and dreams; the wake which makes him immune to virtually any kind of harm except for those made by gnosis 35 and above

ERGO MUNDUS​

Portal creation: can open portals

True flight: has wings he uses to fly

Information absorption type 2: ergo can assimilate the fundamental conditions of any weapon or being he destroys which gives him access to all their abilities.

Immortality type 6: if his physical form is destroyed he’s able to find another body to inhabit

MAGIC​

Both etheldrea and ergo mundus are able to use all the paths of magic in this verse thus should get the following abilities.

Text, plot and fate manipulation: with these spells

Chaos manipulation: with these

Fear and madness manipulation type 2: with these spells

Death manipulation: spells from the magic path of death

Dream manipulation: with these spells

Time manipulation: with these spells

Void manipulation: with these

Low multi range: this spell allows for dimensional travel from the wake to the real world and back. Malekith gets this for having a magic level of 90 in the path of dream

BAAL​

Abstract existence type 1: is not essentially a creature but rather an emotion. A primal ancestral thought born from mankind. Baal is an idea in simple form, the very concept of evil crated by humanity when it needed justification for everything

Conceptual sealing: unconsciously seals his unwanted fragments in the very concept of prison

Subjective reality and memory manipulation: is able to create and is one with an entirely different reality that consists of an endless space named the arcane which houses perfect creations of powerful beings called messengers who he bestows the power to create whole existences, numerous worlds that extend in all directions, being both real and unreal at the same time.

Nigh omnipresence: everything in the arcane is apart of Baal

low multi range: the chaos disruption from his realm extends to another reality entirely where it breaks and destroys its laws




Agree: @ActuallySpaceMan42, @Mr. Bambu (everything else)

Disagree: @ActuallySpaceMan42(NEP, ND, and plot manipulation, nigh omnipresence changed to multi location), @Mr. Bambu(same as spaceman including ftl, lifting strength, low godly Possesion and type 9 immortality)

Neutral:

 

[LazerDim8000]

Bump

 

[Robo432343]

agree

 

[LazerDim8000]

bump

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I don't know the verse, so I won't comment on the Tier Changes. I agree with any abilities I don't mention below.

---

Immortality type 9: Beings at this level of gnosis can raise many avatars

This is Avatar Creation.

Acausality type 4: They have no ties to the physical nor spiritual world

Doesn't qualify.

Beyond dimensional existence type 1: Beings with Gnosis 40 possess the powers of gnosis 35 enabling them to ignore many rules of the soul flux including time, as they have no ties to the Physical or spiritual world. This makes them immune to time spells altogether as explained above.

From what I can understand the Soul Flux is where all in-verse concepts exist. This would only work if Space and Time are considered to be concepts in verse.

Immeasurable lifting strength: scaling off of the nameless who can tank blows and impacts from the collective consciousness of the world, a fragment of existence itself.

Not how Lifting Strength works.

Nonexistent physiology and nonduality type 2: exists between reality and dreams; the wake which makes him immune to virtually any kind of harm except for those made by gnosis 35 and above

While this can be NEP, it needs evidence that this puts him between every duality/concept to be Nonduality Type 2.

Low multi range: this spell allows for dimensional travel from the wake to the real world and back. Malekith gets this for having a magic level of 90 in the path of dream

When listed on the profile, make sure to specify that this is only a Dimensional Travel Range.

Nigh omnipresence: everything in the arcane is apart of Baal

Multilocation.

 

[LazerDim8000]

I don't know the verse, so l won't comment on the Tier Changes. I agree with any abilities I don't mention below.

That’s fine, though the verse is already 2c, this is just expanding on the number of worlds.

This is Avatar Creation.

Baal resides in the nexus of souls but can use avatars in the real world, omega is trapped in a pocket dimension but can also manifest avatars on the earth, and they are both beings with gnosis 40.

Doesn't qualify.

Beings with gnosis 30 are linked to the soul flux and still follow its rules. Gnosis 35 beings ignore many rules but not all. Gnosis 40 beings disregard these rules, while Gnosis 45 beings exist beyond them entirely. Would this be enough ?

From what I can understand the Soul Flux is where all in-verse concepts exist. This would only work if Space and Time are considered to be concepts in verse.

Yes magic is an aspect of the soul flux which encompasses all elements and concepts that make up creation. More specifically there’s spells that encompass time, non-existence, light, darkness and such

Not how Lifting Strength works.

The shadow of the world is implied to be the wake in its entirety, representing the shadowy facet of the real world and a parallel dimension. And she’s just an avatar of Baal who is also one with the arcana dimension. Would this qualify ?

While this can be NEP, it needs evidence that this puts him between every duality/concept to be Nonduality Type 2.

NEP is fine though the real and unreal is used to make distinction between physical reality and the wake. Thought dementia existing in a state between existence and nonexistence with immunities included would suffice

When listed on the profile, make sure to specify this is only a Dimensional Travel Range.

Will do

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

• Baal resides in the nexus of souls but can use avatars in the real world, omega is trapped in a pocket dimension but can also manifest avatars on the earth, and they are both beings with gnosis 40.

In that case, if their profiles have actual Avatar Keys, then Immortality Type 9 seems fine.

• Beings with gnosis 30 are linked to the soul flux and still follow its rules. Gnosis 35 beings ignore many rules but not all. Gnosis 40 beings disregard these rules, while Gnosis 45 beings exist beyond them entirely. Would this be enough ?

That's a better scan, yeah Acausality Type 4 is fine then.

• Yes magic is an aspect of the soul flux which encompasses all elements and concepts that make up creation. More specifically there’s spells that encompass time, non-existence, light, darkness and such

Ok, try to include those links in the BDE's explanation, and phrase it like this or something; Beings with Gnosis 40 are not connected to the Physical or Spiritual World, which means they are not bound by the Soul Flux that contains all concepts, including time and space.

• The shadow of the world is implied to be the wake in its entirety, representing the shadowy facet of the real world and a parallel dimension. And she’s just an avatar of Baal who is also one with the arcana dimension. Would this qualify ?

Yeah, that can work as a Lifting Strength Feat since it's size-related. It's just you can't get Lifting Strength based on tanking hits.

 

[LazerDim8000]

• Baal resides in the nexus of souls but can use avatars in the real world, omega is trapped in a pocket dimension but can also manifest avatars on the earth, and they are both beings with gnosis 40.

In that case, if their profiles have actual Avatar Keys, then Immortality Type 9 seems fine.

• Beings with gnosis 30 are linked to the soul flux and still follow its rules. Gnosis 35 beings ignore many rules but not all. Gnosis 40 beings disregard these rules, while Gnosis 45 beings exist beyond them entirely. Would this be enough ?

That's a better scan, yeah Acausality Type 4 is fine then.

• Yes magic is an aspect of the soul flux which encompasses all elements and concepts that make up creation. More specifically there’s spells that encompass time, non-existence, light, darkness and such

Ok, try to include those links in the BDE's explanation, and phrase it like this or something; Beings with Gnosis 40 are not connected to the Physical or Spiritual World, which means they are not bound by the Soul Flux that contains all concepts, including time and space.

• The shadow of the world is implied to be the wake in its entirety, representing the shadowy facet of the real world and a parallel dimension. And she’s just an avatar of Baal who is also one with the arcana dimension. Would this qualify ?

Yeah, that can work as a Lifting Strength Feat since it's size-related. It's just you can't get Lifting Strength based on tanking hits.

This verse isn’t popular. Could you tag some staff to comment here ?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

@Catzlaflame @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus

If any of you don't mind chipping in.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

To add to Spaceman's problems, riding light doesn't make the character themselves FTL, that just means they can interact with light physically (which may actually be considered a strike against it being proper Light, depending on context).

 

[LazerDim8000]

To add to Spaceman's problems, riding light doesn't make the character themselves FTL, that just means they can interact with light physically (which may actually be considered a strike against it being proper Light, depending on context).

In the context of the verse, zen is an ability that allows one to reach the highest difficulty required to perform the most challenging tasks, mostly in battle and the ability before it enables one to travel at 100 yards in 2 seconds. Riding a beam of light is just an example of the speed achievable with zen. Energy interactions such as light has a separate ability

Do you agree with the rest ?

 

[Robo432343]

DOWNGRADES​

Omega
Soul pillars grants this guy low 1c, but the tierring system has changed and even the creators are highly unsure if it would work on its intended targets.

thats the reason why he has possibly Low 1-C and not a flat out Low 1-C rating
its because its stated that it could damage shajads and beryls and that its considered worth trying

 

[LazerDim8000]

imperium have absolutely no faith in their work and it was considered worth trying because that’s the philosophy imperium follows

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Text, plot and fate manipulation: with these spells

it just seems like text and fate hax not plot hax

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

it just seems like text and fate hax not plot hax

I thought so too, but the description of the magic makes it seem like plot hax if taken literally.

Changing reality by writing in the book called the real world, and rewriting the script of life.

 

[LazerDim8000]

it just seems like text and fate hax not plot hax

It’s a sub path of magic that explicitly deals with manipulating the scripts of life and makes you the writer of the play

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In the context of the verse, zen is an ability that allows one to reach the highest difficulty required to perform the most challenging tasks, mostly in battle and the ability before it enables one to travel at 100 yards in 2 seconds. Riding a beam of light is just an example of the speed achievable with zen. Energy interactions such as light has a separate ability

Do you agree with the rest ?

I agree with Spaceman, broadly, on the rest. FTL was just a particularly egregious thing I didn't see him point out. So, I disagree with:

• Omnipresence
• Maybe Immeasurable LS, given that it seems to scale to a place described as "shadowy" and "illusory"

To give a better look at what else Spaceman himself didn't directly speak on/I disagree with him on:

• Ergo Mundus' regen isn't regen, it's Type 6 Immortality/Possession. Taking someone else's body doesn't require you to regenerate anything.
• I think Plot Manipulation is too vague to be supported. The book's name is an implication but isn't concrete enough imo.
• I think Avatar Creation is still better representation than Immortality Type 9, although if the pages have keys for the Avatars then that's fine (I'm not sure I understood your meaning on bits of this, consider this a cover-all answer in light of that)
• Regarding nonexistent physiology, the Wake is not implied to be nonexistent, and so I wouldn't suggest things coming from it (or other psyche/dream related realms) to be nonexistent, just non-physical. At least, this CRT doesn't currently present evidence that everything relating to dreams would possess NEP or ND. I would disagree with both of these currently without (again) significant further justification.

 

[LazerDim8000]

I think Plot Manipulation is too vague to be supported. The book's name is an implication but isn't concrete enough imo.

I don’t think its too vague tbh. Plot manipulation is described as altering the fundamental plot that governs reality which is verbatim what this sub path of magic does; manipulates the script of life and write in the margins of reality. Bear in mind that magic already alters reality as it pleases on a fundamental level. And uses various principles that govern existence to do so. It’s also listed on the plot page that it can be used to control one’s actions/thoughts which is how most of the spells function. But if it’s still considered too vague could it be possibly ?

Regarding nonexistent physiology, the Wake is not implied to be nonexistent, and so I wouldn't suggest things coming from it (or other psyche/dream related realms) to be nonexistent, just non-physical. At least, this CRT doesn't currently present evidence that everything relating to dreams would possess NEP or ND. I would disagree with both of these currently without (again) significant further justification.

The wake is described as a void that was going to erase all of existence when the Japanese gods manifested on earth. Would this qualify ?

Also, it’s written on the subjective reality page that turning entities into dreams or illusions grant non existence.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Omnipresence

Do you agree with multi location ?

Maybe Immeasurable LS, given that it seems to scale to a place described as "shadowy" and
"illusory"

It’s a dream like realm but it’s still a parallel reflection of the real world and its threat to existence is real. Characters also gets NPI in the wake.

 

[Antoniofer]

Omega
Soul pillars grants this guy low 1c, but the tierring system has changed and even the creators are highly unsure if it would work on its intended targets.

Going by authors statements, the Pillars being a threat to the 14 is an impossibility. Nonetheless, that would require for me to scroll through extra-official information that may or not be available. In any case, as the weapon's current state, it couldn't not harm, no mind destroy, any of the 14.

Etheldrea
Has gnosis 40 abilities but isn’t one herself. rather, she’s a special natural being

This fine. I would even suggest erasing her profile as its was created prior to the release of her sheet, but that's ultimately not up to me.

Regeneration
Mid godly regeneration for beings of gnosis 35 and higher is unjustified and should be (if too vague) removed. Or possibly low-godly for being able to regenerate as long as their consciousness persists. although Individuals like the nameless, ergo, malekith, and druaga still retain godly regen

Note that the power describe the entity would not die by the hands of someone whose Gnosis is over 20 points below his, it not necessary says it will regenerate from the damage. Whether the entity regens its body (either partically or from nothing) depends of its natural regeneration.

Ergo mundus
mid godly should be low-godly through possession

I believe his immortality depends of how reforming from his essence would qualify in this site (low-godly or mid-godly whether the spirit is considered conceptual or whatever). In any case, from where is the Possession coming from?

 

[Antoniofer]

Moving on.

Immortality type 9: Beings at this level of gnosis can raise many avatars

This is Avatar Creation.

Immortality type 9 negation: explained here

If any, this would be Power Negation. Note that this may be considered a limitation for the one who created the avatar and not necessary an ability for who destroyed it.

Acausality type 1: Beings of gnosis 40 are completely unaffected by time based spells and are aware of loops and changes in time.

Partially true, but saying they are completely immune is an stretch. For instance, A Perfect World might still freeze entities of Gnosis 40 or higher if they fail the check; likewise, the Time Stop spell (from the ime sub-path) can also freeze such entities in time.

Acausality type 4: They have no ties to the physical nor spiritual world

Such piece of text does explain much and is too vague. Being of Gnosis 40+ have a bunch of advantages, but to grant Aca 4 without elaborating on their abilities is a practice I'm not willing to apply.

Beyond dimensional existence type 1: Beings with Gnosis 40 possess the powers of gnosis 35 enabling them to ignore many rules of the soul flux including time, as they have no ties to the Physical or spiritual world. This makes them immune to time spells altogether as explained above.

This has the same issues as the two points above: text doesn't elaborate and they aren't completely immune to time manipulation.

 

[LazerDim8000]

I believe his immortality depends of how reforming from his essence would qualify in this site (low-godly or mid-godly whether the spirit is considered conceptual or whatever). In any case, from where is the Possession coming from?

Comes from having to find another physical body if his current one is destroyed.

Yh but perfect world is a level 100 divine spell that can only be used by beings with similar of higher gnosis

Most of the stuff about acausality and BDE has been elaborated

 

[Antoniofer]

Immeasurable lifting strength: scaling off of the nameless who can tank blows and impacts from the collective consciousness of the world, a fragment of existence itself.

This is not how LS works. This is also not enough proof for Immeasurable.

Faster than light speed: all characters who can use zen are able to perform feats like riding beams of light and such. These are the beings who scale

As a explanaroty remark, mere having Zen doesn't guarantee you to reach Zen difficulty, which is what the text refer to. I.e, one needs to have a final result of 440 to be considered reaching Zen. And btw, the text might be considered vague, and for current edition, that piece of text is no longer available in the book (ut was removed). Bambu said its NPI, but wheher someone damage energy or not is not related to difficulty checks.

Resistance to plot manipulation: can resist these spells

Call me stubborn, but I don't that using the real worl = book analogy to describe powers as enough proof to turn fate manip into plot manip. Nonetheless, is not up to me to decide that.

Nonexistent physiology and nonduality type 2: exists between reality and dreams; the wake which makes him immune to virtually any kind of harm except for those made by gnosis 35 and above

This is not NEP or ND. What Dementia does is hide within a pocket dimention locket between the real world and the Wake.

Comes from having to find another physical body if his current one is destroyed.

Notice the power doesn't specify he forces a possession on someone, and he might simply find an appropriated vessel. I can't really deny or confirm whether Ergo can take over one body with a will by force.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Do you agree with multi location ?

It’s a dream like realm but it’s still a parallel reflection of the real world and its threat to existence is real. Characters also gets NPI in the wake.

Multi-Location is fine.

I still ain't convinced by Immeasurable, passing a "no" on that one.

 

[Antoniofer]

Although the Arcane was reshaped based on Baal's memories, he is not entirely responsible of its creation. The Arcane is a manifestation of Baal's seals, and is what prevents it from materializing in the real world.

Would consider multi-location (thus, nigh-omnipresence is out of the equation) a stretch given how little control Baal have over the precinct. Characters like Zero, the Messengers, and the other mask are aspects of him, but they don't act in the capacity of an avatar, and they pretty much behave as their real selves.

Also, take whatever Romeo says with a grain of salt. He wasn't precisely the most honest fellow during the game's events (for instance, the real world was pretty fine and out of reach from Baal's influence).

I can agree with Baal having some form of Abstract Existence; he did born from the idea of the evil responsible of several tragedies and from the merging of dead demons. He's like halfway between an Aeon and an Arcana.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Multi-Location is fine.

I still ain't convinced by Immeasurable, passing a "no" on that one.

The wake is regarded as one of the planes of existence and another dimension that can freely be traveled via portals. It functions exactly like a parallel dimension containing real realms where important beings like gods and nightmare lords reside. it houses numerous supernatural creatures and the plane was a threat to Gaia. It being described as a shadowy and illusory world shouldn’t overshadow how it’s treated in verse. I think at least a possibly should qualify ?

Also, do you agree on plot manipulation or it being a possibly ? And if you’re not convinced about NEP for dementia, I’d leave it for another CRT.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, I just straight up don't think that's enough to justify Plot Manipulation.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Although the Arcane was reshaped based on Baal's memories, he is not entirely responsible of its creation. The Arcane is a manifestation of Baal's seals, and is what prevents it from materializing in the real world.

An avatar of Baal says that it was he who created the tower

Would consider multi-location (thus, nigh-omnipresence is out of the equation) a stretch given how little control Baal have over the precinct.Characters like Zero, the Messengers, and the other mask are aspects of him, but they don't act in the capacity of an avatar, and they pretty much behave as their real selves.

He implanted false memories in his avatars on purpose. Baal himself was aware of everything happening in the arcane and even manifested himself at times

Also, take whatever Romeo says with a grain of salt.He wasn't precisely the most honest fellow during the game's events (for instance, the real world was pretty fine and out of reach from Baal's influence).

Wouldn’t say romeo was being dishonest. Both elienai and the bearer confirm the arcane's chaotic nature. Baal was a threat that planed on turning existence into his personal hell, he was spreading corruption even before manifesting in gaia and has a level 100 in the path of chaos with its highest spell aligning with what romeo stated

 

[LazerDim8000]

No, I just straight up don't think that's enough to justify Plot Manipulation.

Alright I’ll put you in disagreement for ftl, plot, lifting strength, type 9 immortality, low godly possession, NEP and nonduality. Would 2 votes be enough to apply what has been accepted ? This verse doesn’t have a significant following

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You could, although personally I'd like to wait a bit (maybe a day or so) to see if Anton has any more points, rather than rush this one through.

 

[Antoniofer]

Wouldn’t say romeo was being dishonest. Both elienai and the bearer confirm the arcane's chaotic nature. Baal was a threat that planed on turning existence into his personal hell, he was spreading corruption even before manifesting in gaia and has a level 100 in the path of chaos with its highest spell aligning with what romeo stated

Baal has chaos magic, yes, and he also tried to warp reality into his personal hell. But the way you worded it above sounded like you suggested he was altering reality during the events of the game, which is not truth. He is seal and for the time being, his capability to influence the real world is practically null.

To close this Baal's section: what I tried to say is that it creating the Arcane and its inhabitants happened more for a series of circumstances that may or not be applicable out of his prison. You can give him multi-location based in the fact his shadow lingers across the Arcane, but that happenes because the Arcane is his prison.

Also, not sure how much the standards have shifted these years, but not sure if the Arcane, different rooms considered, would qualify as High 3-A or 2-C. That, too, remains for the staff to decide.

Now, moving on.

Portal creation: can open portals

True flight: has wings he uses to fly

This is not controversial. Ergo lacks the natural ability to fly or create portals, but he had absorbed the powers of several creatures that most likely have it (for instance, he has access to Kappel's teleportation).

Information absorption type 2: ergo can assimilate the fundamental conditions of any weapon or being he destroys which gives him access to all their abilities.

Not sure what does Information Type 2 implies, but take into account Ergo cannot absorb abilities that relies in knowledge, for example: summoning abilities, weapon manneuvers, new spells, etc. Neither does he absorb stats or skills (like Strength, or combat abilities, etc).

Immortality type 6: if his physical form is destroyed he’s able to find another body to inhabit

I was to bring up the possession matter issue, but reading the page it says that possession is not necessary. This, too, looks uncontroversial.

Both etheldrea and ergo mundus are able to use all the paths of magic in this verse thus should get the following abilities.

I think they already have access to these abilities in their respective profiles? Don't think there's any problem overall beyond elaborating. That's it, there're a few issues:
1) Type 7 Immortality Negation is, generally, not a thing. Undeads are often killable by conventional means. The spell is a specific form of Deconstruction.
2) The Literae spells don't full the requeriments to qualify as Plot Manip.
3) Whether Ergo has access to sub-paths is something I cannot deny or confirm. The sheets speaks of Paths, but whether it refers to the main paths of all the paths is something I don't know. Take it as you will.

The wake is a parallel dimension that was in the past significantly affected and broken down into the samsara which consists of 5 layers of reality with each being a different plane of existence hence should also be 2c

Note that the Samsara's planes are limited to Varja, a big island in the Old Continent; they have a finite size. Not sure if that change anything, or that the fact the Wake is a reflection of the real world (that means, if part of the real world is destroyed, its respective place in the Wake eventually fades away except in certain circumstances).

 

[LazerDim8000]

Not sure what does Information Type 2 implies, but take into account Ergo cannot absorb abilities that relies in knowledge, for example: summoning abilities, weapon manneuvers, new spells, etc. Neither does he absorb stats or skills (like Strength, or combat abilities, etc).

It’s Type 2 because it allows him to absorb and assimilate the fundamental conditions of artifacts and creatures to learn their special powers, essentially their underlying informational structures. And it’s not said that he isn’t able to acquire new spells

Type 7 Immortality Negation is, generally, not a thing. Undeads are often killable by conventional means. The spell is a specific form of Deconstruction.

It’s type 7 negation because it specifically targets and destroys undead creatures.

Whether Ergo has access to sub-paths is something I cannot deny or confirm. The sheets speaks of Paths, but whether it refers to the main paths of all the paths is something I don't know. Take it as you will.

Well, he is on the cover of the arcana exxet, which contains the sub paths but tbh the special rating on his magic level covers it and there isn’t any major difference between sub paths and Paths. Plus, regular magicians are able to use spells from the sub-paths.

 

[Antoniofer]

And it’s not said that he isn’t able to acquire new spells

Learning spells require memories chants and gestures, even if the caster is not forced to execute them; they aren't considered powers per se. It's evident that Ergo doesn't absorb the knowledge of those he destroys.

It’s type 7 negation because it specifically targets and destroys undead creatures.

That's the issue: it doesn't need to be negated because immortality type 7 doesn't grant immunity on their own. One power what would turn into ashes both living and unliving beings would be qualified as Deconstruction, why would it be different in this case?
In any case, this is wiki semantics, perhaps Bambu could clear that up.

Well, he is on the cover of the arcana exxet, which contains the sub paths but tbh the special rating on his magic level covers it and there isn’t any major difference between sub paths and Paths. Plus, regular magicians are able to use spells from the sub-paths.

The first and last arguments are kind of weak tbh; nonetheless, I admit there's not enough evidence to confirm he has access to the sub-paths beyond there's only 11 true paths whereas the others are subsets that cannot be developed individually by a wizard. I could reccommend using the Likely/Possibly in this instance, but if the others insist in giving Ergo access to sub-paths, I wouldn't oppose.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Learning spells require memories chants and gestures, even if the caster is not forced to execute them; they aren't considered powers per se. It's evident that Ergo doesn't absorb the knowledge of those he destroys.

That's the issue: it doesn't need to be negated because immortality type 7 doesn't grant immunity on their own. One power what would turn into ashes both living and unliving beings would be qualified as Deconstruction, why would it be different in this case?
In any case, this is wiki semantics, perhaps Bambu could clear that up.

The first and last arguments are kind of weak tbh; nonetheless, I admit there's not enough evidence to confirm he has access to the sub-paths beyond there's only 11 true paths whereas the others are subsets that cannot be developed individually by a wizard. I could reccommend using the Likely/Possibly in this instance, but if the others insist in giving Ergo access to sub-paths, I wouldn't oppose.

You may be confusing type 1 with Type 2. I never said he absorbed the knowledge of those he destroys. He absorbs their powers and learns how to use them. Whatever special powers the being he absorbed had, he would also be able to use them. He doesn’t need to absorb their knowledge for this to happen that’s not how the ability works, nor is it how it’s described.

Nothing about destroying living creatures is mentioned. The spell specifically targets undead creatures without a soul, meaning it destroys beings that are neither alive nor possess a soul, which is what type 7 immortality is on the wiki. As I understand it, killing beings with type 7 immortality grants negation, same way killing someone who constantly resurrects grants negation of type 4 immortality.

Are you doubtful because it wasn’t mentioned that he can use sub-paths along with 'can use any path of magic'? You do realize that sub-paths still fall under magic as a whole, right? His sheet states that he has extensive innate magical knowledge, so why wouldn’t sub-paths be included?

 

[LazerDim8000]

Baal has chaos magic, yes, and he also tried to warp reality into his personal hell. But the way you worded it above sounded like you suggested he was altering reality during the events of the game, which is not truth. He is seal and for the time being, his capability to influence the real world is practically null.

Practically null ? He was weakened, but his power was growing exponentially. He was still trying to manifest in the world. He masterminded the summoning of the messengers, whose true forms in the real world were all connected to Baal. Was also able to recreate druaga, equipped with his ability to split his soul between two dimensions. His influence on the real world was far from null and there’s nothing that actually says Romeo exxet was being dishonest unless you have any scans that say otherwise.

 

[Antoniofer]

You may be confusing type 1 with Type 2. I never said he absorbed the knowledge of those he destroys. He absorbs their powers and learns how to use them. Whatever special powers the being he absorbed had, he would also be able to use them. He doesn’t need to absorb their knowledge for this to happen that’s not how the ability works, nor is it how it’s described.

The ability specifies he absorbs powers (from both monsters and artifacts) and ki techniques. Power is a completely different category rom Magic and the likes; likewise, combat abilities and attributes neither count. That is what I'm trying to convey.

Nothing about destroying living creatures is mentioned. The spell specifically targets undead creatures without a soul, meaning it destroys beings that are neither alive nor possess a soul, which is what type 6 immortality is on the wiki. As I understand it, killing beings with type 6 immortality grants negation, same way killing someone who constantly resurrects grants negation of type 4 immortality.

There's a misunderstanding. You wrote type 7 in OP, which refer to undead characters. No special ability is required to kill undead characters as they are as vulnerable to conventional attacks just as mortals are (at least by default), even if they can take way more gruesome damage. Type 6 is parasidic immortality, which doesn't add up to the description given.

Are you doubtful because it wasn’t mentioned that he can use sub-paths along with 'can use any path of magic'? You do realize that sub-paths still fall under magic as a whole, right? His sheet states that he has extensive innate magical knowledge, so why wouldn’t sub-paths be included?

The only thing I can infer with the description is that he has access to 70 levels of the main paths but not to Free Access spells (which isn't a path of magic). I do have my reservations whether Ergo can use sub-paths, but as I said above, I'm not precisely against its addition if the staff here agrees, be with the Likely/Possibly tag or without it.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Type 6

Was a mistake, I meant type 7

 

[Antoniofer]

His influence on the real world was far from null and there’s nothing that actually says Romeo exxet was being dishonest unless you have any scans that say otherwise.

Romeo's true intentions are revealed here starting minute 12:40

Yes, he was dishonest, manipulative, and stupid, Nameless and Unknown even brought that up that once in a while during the DLC.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Romeo's true intentions are revealed here starting minute 12:40

Yes, he was dishonest, manipulative, and stupid, Nameless and Unknown even brought that up that once in a while during the DLC.

I don’t see how that falsifies the particular statement. Elienai was evidently not a part of Romeo’s plan, yet still confirms that the arcane was chaotic. Romeo had no reason to lie about the threat Baal poses to the real world. Imo, in that same scene Romeo makes a statement similar to what was previously said: the whole world would descend into chaos which would lead to the return of Baal. No matter, I’ve provided more evidence that Gaia was within his reach while he was weakened.

 

[Antoniofer]

I don’t see how that falsifies the particular statement. Elienai was evidently not a part of Romeo’s plan, yet this still confirms that the arcane was chaotic. Romeo had no reason to lie about the threat Baal poses to the real world. Imo, in that same scene Romeo makes a statement similar to what was previously said: the whole world would descend into chaos which would lead to the return of Baal. No matter, I’ve provided more evidence that Gaia was within his reach while he was weakened.

It's not the nature of the Arcane what is being brought into question. Romeo was not lying per se about that part, but that doesn't make what he said truth: if you're familiarized with the setting, you could notice there's a bunch of pressuring stuff happening since the Emperor was assassinated and Elisabetha sat on the throne. Several Principalities claimed independence, other are in the blink of war, and no mind the entities who are lining up to wreck havoc. In some form, Gaïa is in chaos... but Baal is not responsible of that, and for it to break free the moment the world collide in war is unlikely (you can listen to Nameless saying the seals will prevail for centuries). That the instant the world explodes somehow Baal breaks free is Romeo's desilusion; Baal almost escaped from its binding this time because of what the Bearer did, otherwise nothing would've happened.

For further support, here's a statement from the author after the game was released:

Does Baal retain any ability to affect Gaïa in his current state? Could he manipulate
others or create an avatar to try to free himself as the Shadow of Omega?
No. Baal cannot affect Gaïa directly in any way and he CANNOT create an avatar. On the other
hand, he CAN influence creatures that meet one of the following two requirements:
1- For some reason they have his blood, objects of his or have been affected / influenced by
creatures linked to Baal (and in these cases I am referring to things he released / created or
influenced in the past, during the third shadow war).
2- Extremely evil people who, by mere chance, are not akin to any kind of demonic entity or hell.
In these "gaps" Baal can act.