Altair's Acausality

[RM97]

Altair is the primary antagonist of the meta-fictional anime "Re:Creators" and she is notorious for having multiple abilities due to her being a unique creation and having an independent existence. This post will try to explain her being an Acausal from various statements as well as the two different perspectives of In-Verse and Metafictional. So without further ado, let's get to the point :-


From The In-Verse Perspective


In "Re:Creators", the stories/story worlds are parallel universes which run alongside the "real" universe but they have their different laws while the "real" universe is normal like ours. The term "Creations" in the verse refer to the created characters, stories,etc whereas the term "Creators" refers to the authors, writers, illustrators,etc. There exists a countless number of universes in the universe due to the existence of various stories from books, movies, animes, games,etc. Once Created, these Story worlds are separated from the Laws of Cause and Effect of the Universe and exist alongside the real main universe as a separate space-time Continuum. As Meteora explains in episode 2:

https://imgur.com/a/hE5Po

As shown above, these Universes become separated from the laws of Cause and Effect of the main Universe and themselves exist as a Space-Time having their own Cause and Effect. More Proof that the Worlds are Independent Universes from episode 5:

https://imgur.com/a/YJvxj

The Verse is a Multiverse with multiple timelines for the story worlds as well as possibly having higher dimensions and higher dimensional beings due to the existence of Lovecraft's Mythos as a story in the Verse and Magane Summoning The Hound of Tindalos, a higher dimensional being from the said story:

https://imgur.com/a/wLI0C

Now, Altair is a Creation who is Unique and is born without any Universe or Story and Exists as an Independent Existence. As stated numerous times in the series especially in episode 13, 14, and prominently in episode 20:-

https://imgur.com/a/JxWoD

As shown above, Altair was stated to not having a Background Story or a Universe (as stories in the verse = a universe) and being an Independent Existence. Now here's the Thing, Altair was born without any Story or Universe and as shown above, when a story is created they are separated from the Laws of Cause and Effect of the real world. As such, it would apply to Altair too and separate her from the Laws of Causality of the main Universe and since she doesn't have any Universe/belong to any Universe, it would make her as a singularity of Cause and Effect and therefore she would exist as an Acausal being. Further proof comes from the fact that she came into existence out of nowhere without any Universe to guide her existence or story and as such, she has no past, present or future.


From The Metafictional Perspective


The Verse is a metafictional verse where the main real world is considered to be exactly like our Universe with similar laws and rationality and the story worlds are considered fictional where impossible feats like humans flying, manipulating causality, magic,etc happen. As Meteora describes it better in episode 4:-

https://imgur.com/a/Ve2mp

Altair has been described numerous times to not have a background story and being an independent existence (scroll above for the pics). However, she was additionally stated by Meteora to have Transcended the yoke of her world aka her story even though no other creations are supposed to identify the existence of the yoke (The term "Yoke" here can be interpreted as "Laws") as stated in episode 2:-

https://imgur.com/a/YJvxj

As stated by Meteora, Altair Transcended the Yoke of her story and was able to come to the land of the gods aka the real Universe. Now, what does all of these exactly this mean? Applying the context, the entire thing means that Altair is unbound by the laws of 'Narrative Causality' which determines how the story or plot should progress as everything is predestined. This is precisely the main reason why any of the characters in the verse were unable to Transcend the Yoke of their respective worlds and come to the main Universe as they were already had their stories written and as such they were bound by the narrative causality of their respective universes. They all were unaware of the fact that they were fictional characters whereas Altair didn't have any background story and hence she was not bound by Narrative Causality and could come to the main Universe. Furthermore, this is also one of her biggest attributes that due to being Unbound by the Laws of Narrative Causality, she isn't predestined or governed on how her plot/story should progress thereby making her an independent existence and due to this fact, she was able to gain powers from the fanfictions her fans create about her. This also supports the 'In-Verse perspective' where she was shown to be a singularity of Cause and Effect as she didn't have/belong to any Universe.

Moreover, Altair was written to be in the crossover story of the all the characters leading to Elimination Chamber Festival inside the Birdcage and she was scripted to lose against the heroes. Not only was she unaffected by the script but she also changed the script itself making it so that she will be undefeated.

https://imgur.com/a/avo5z

So To Summarize:-

-Explained How Story Worlds are Parallel Universes running alongside the Main Universe

-Explained how the Parallel Universes are separate Space-time Continuums separated from the laws of Causality of the Main Universe once they are created.

-Explained how Altair is a singularity of Cause and Effect due to not having or belonging to any Universe

-Gave a quick description of the verse setting from a Metafictional POV

-Explained how Altair is unbound by Narrative Causality

-Explained how it is the primary reason why she is able to able to absorb the powers from her fanfictions

-Explained why it is the main reason for making her different than the other characters in the series

-Explained why she remained unaffected by the Script Writing of all the Crossovers leading to the Elimination Chamber and she even reversed the situation to favor her

-Linked Metafictional Perspective with In-Verse Perspective.

Now, Here's a list of some questions that can be asked regarding this topic:

Q1. "What if someone goes back in time and kills setsuna before she created Altair, then Altair will cease to exist too"

Ans: Not at all. When a creator creates a story, it gets separated from the laws of Cause and Effect and exists as a separate universe as explained by Meteora in episode 2. So even if you go back in time and kill the creator before he or she created the story, the story world will still continue to exist as it is not affected by the laws of Causality of the main Universe and they themselves will have their own laws of Cause and Effect applicable to the characters in the universe.

Q2. "But what you described is in relation to a Story World/Parallel Universe. How is that applicable to a creation or in particular, a character like Altair??"

Ans: About that, Altair was born without any story which means she wasn't born in any universe as the story worlds are = Parallel Universes. She was made for a music video called "World Etude" which was her only Canon appearance by Setsuna before she committed suicide and even then the music video had no story or plot whatsoever and only a few pics/arts of Altair were featured in it. Because of all this, she gained acceptance from the viewers/audience and her character was brought into existence but she didn't get any universe as she had no background story and neither did she get one due to setsuna's untimely death which caused her to be born without any universe and essentially exist as a singularity of Cause & Effect.

Q3. "The 'Transcending the Laws' statement was a hypothesis of Meteora and as such cannot be based upon to prove Altair's Acausality"

Ans: Not Really. Meteora was describing how it is possible for a fictional character to come out of their own world on their own by Transcending the Laws of Narrative Causality which is the same Concept that bounds all the other creations and stories and makes them flow. Meteora stated that they cannot even recognize the existence of such a concept as they think that their worlds are real but don't know that they are being manipulated by the Creators of their stories.

Q4. "But how does that prove that Altair is Acausal?"

Ans: Altair was born a plot point that has no story to it which describes anything related to her background or past, present, future and as such, she was born without any Universe nor does she belong to any. To put it simply she isn't bound by Narrative Causality which caused her to exist as an independent existence. It only has description about her character design and her Holopsicon but she no story to describe her background or her past, present and future. She is very well aware of the fact that she is a creation and since she isn't bound by the Laws of Narrative Causality, she cannot be plot manipulated by the Creators to their desires as shown in episode 14.

Q5. "But If she cannot be plot manipulated by the Creators, then how is she able to gain a vast Array of Powers and Abilities from her Fanfictions???"

Ans: Here's the Thing, She was Born without any background story, but her Holopsicon has been written by Setsuna herself and she described it to have Infinite Abilities as shown here in episode 21:-

https://imgur.com/a/lqtb2

So when any writer creates a story about her and includes a new ability of her in that story, she automatically gains it due to the Holopsicon written to already have Infinite abilities. Moreover, there's also the fact that Altair was written and featured in countless Fanfictions, Fanvideos and Fanarts by the different writers and artists and yet she didn't gain any of the Personality, Character design, Weaknesses,etc from any of those creations

Q6. "But what about the audience acceptance? Isn't that plot manipulation too since the emotions and acceptance of the audience are what's bring the creations into existence, shaping the creations and giving the characters their powers and what not??"

Ans: The acceptance from the audience is more like Reality Warping rather than Plot Manipulation since they aren't writing the story or making the creations but rather they are acknowledging the Creations and putting their beliefs and emotions in them which turns it into reality. Case in point, back in episode 4 when Matsubara and Marine tried to Upgrade Selesia, it didn't work but in episode 10 the acceptance from the audience turned the same plot into reality and Selesia temporarily got the same upgrade to fight Aliceteria. It was also in episode 21 where the Audience believed in Altair's power to Create Worlds out of Nothing and writing the story of Setsuna which turned into reality and gave Altair the powers to do all the above.

 

[ParadoxRegiement]

This is all very cool. And definitely in-depth. The questions and answers also make sense too, which makes it even better imo.

Kinda connected to this, because of how Altair is made in the anime, if someone were to roleplay as her, they could technically add any ability to her and it would work because she is literally a No Limits Fallacy in the flesh. She can have any ability as long as someone writes about her with said ability. It's honestly a bit absurd when you think about it, but also makes her a unique character.

Good job finding all this stuff. I think it's great.

 

[Sera_EX]

While I think this is good enough for acausality, others might not (as it's been heavily debated as to what constitutes as acausality or not).

Regardless, this is very well put together. Great work putting all of this together RM97.

 

[RM97]

Thank You @Paradox and @Sera. Tbh I don't think the "add any ability" would count because only official stuffs are accepted. Otherwise people would create fanfictions about her being a high 1-A tier or something and it all would be added to her powers, unless the Creators of the series specify that irl fanfictions of Altair we create can give Altair superpowers.

 

[ParadoxRegiement]

No no, I don't think it would be canon, it would be non-canon. Hence why I said if someone were to RP as her, they could add any ability and it would work. But it wouldn't affect her offical profile.

 

[Peter1129]

I don't know much about Acausality so I'm not really sure about this. So I'll just wait and see what everybody's else thinks about this. Although I have to say this is really detailed.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty detailed explanation, which makes sense.

I think this is fine.

 

[RM97]

Awesome. So Acausality will be added. Along with possible resistance to Plot Manip and resistance to existence erasure due to this : https://imgur.com/a/k5bjO ? Also should she get Time Travel for going into Kanoya's 22nd Century world which is an independent world and or will it be just Plot Manipulation?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

She was still erased though, resisted it a little but ultimately got erased, i guess some resistance to existence erasure could be appropriate.

Well if the worlds exist independent of each other, it's not that she is going into the future of the world, but simply another world entirely, so just the ability to travel to different universes basically, and not time travelling, cause she isn't travelling to the future, but an entirely different world.

 

[RM97]

Okay so Resistance to Existence Erasure.

Yes about that, Kanoya's story takes place in the 22nd Century of his world and the worlds exist independent of each other https://imgur.com/a/YJvxj . So should it be teleportation? or the ability to move into different eras in different universes? or Plot Manipulation but her going into the setting of the plot aka the era/time of the plot?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Minor resistance though, cause got erased pretty quickly, she didn't resist for that long.

The worlds are independent, just cause the current one is in the 21st century doesn't necessarily mean that when you travel to the other world, it will also be the 21st century there, could be any time period, cause they aren't following the same rules.

So it's just the ability to travel between universes.

 

[RM97]

Well, Sirius was made to be Stronger than Altair so her existence erasure should be > Altair's technically. And what about Resistance to Plot Manip?

And, I see.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

True, but the fact that in the end she couldn't resist it, means her resistance isn't that great, or you could say a more powerful character with the ability can overpower her i guess, either way it seems minor.

No to plot manipulation, sirius erased her, albeit we have seen her existence erasing is through making the plot disappear, but don't think we list abilities in that way, a person can have an ability and different applications for it, ie reality warping, you would give them resistance to the application of the ability, but you wouldn't give them resistance to the ability itself, since the ability has such a wide range of things it can do.

 

[RM97]

Ah, I see. So Basically Acausality and Minor Resistance to Existence Erasure will be added along with Immortality (Type 3), Data Manipulation, Magic, Cloning, Summoning, and Existence Change as discussed and agreed in this thread previously: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1107844. And Possibly Attack Redirection/Damage Reflection too (due to her 14th movements application in manipulating causality which redirected/reflected the damage to Aliceteria).


Also, Magane should get Summoning (For Summoning The Hound of Tindalos), Damage Reflection (Was going to redirect the damage from Aliceteria's attack to her but was intervened by Selesia back in episode 6) and Possibly Resurrection/Soul Manip (Resurrected/Revived Setsuna as a fictional character in the birdcage plot in ep 21).


Btw, don't you think a Meteora profile should be made? I can provide feats and stuffs if necessary.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Not sure we even have damage reflection as a power on here.

For megane would just be resurrection.

Haven't made it cause she isn't much of a fighter and lacks feats, and got stomped by relevant ppl like aliceteria, plus she doesn't really even have any offensive capabilities and had to use the armies missles, which ultimately also didn't damage altair or anyone really from my memory, so would be a pain to scale so haven't bothered.

So would be something like ap=unknown, durability small town level?= she tanked alicetaria's attack but was out of comission though, so durability isn't all that great. Speed, supersonic? She did keep up with alicetaria i think so maybe.

 

[RM97]

Well the wiki has Attack Reflection https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Reflection

So Resurrection for Magane. But What about Summoning due to Summoning a Lovecraft Creature and Attack Reflection for setting up her lies and would reflect the damage to Aliceteria like Altair but Selesia Interfered?

I think Base Should be Small Town lvl and supersonic for surviving Aliceteria's attack and Blitz's Gravity Bomb. Post Time Skip/Prep Time Meteora should get City Lvl for creating the Birdcage which was a fictional isolated city with Pocket Reality Manipulation, Creation, Possibly Plot and Law manip. I will make a thread about it soon and give proof and explain, so don't worry.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Damage reflection can probably fit under it i guess.

Summoning and attack reflection are ok.

Cool, leave it to you then.

 

[AKM sama]

This is very detailed and very well put together. Good job RM97.

 

[ParadoxRegiement]

Can I just mention something? The summoning isn't a direct ability of hers, nor is the resurrection. It's all a side effect of her flipping cause and effect ability. With the Hound, she flipped cause and effect, her own lie, to make said lie true. She didn't directly summon the Hound, just caused it to appear through making her lie true.

As for Sestuna, all she did was make it to where audience aproval wasn't needed. If anything, it would be Sota who would get summoning because it was he who created the script and description of that Setsuna, and he's the one who added it into the story.

 

[RM97]

Well in this wiki if you have an ability and it's shown to have produced different applications from it, then those will be listed too. Like for example, Anti-Spiral from Gurren Lagaaan can use his Probability Manipulation to turn beings into Quarks aka Quantum Manipulation, or Misogi Kumagawa from Medaka Box using his Causality Manipulation to turn Zenkichi's existence into the cause for his Non-existence aka Existence Erasure. Hence in this Case Magane's Causality Manipulation essentially played the roles of Summoning and Ressurection.

And Creators don't get any ability because the approval of the audience is still needed to turn the plot of the Creators into Reality.

 

[ParadoxRegiement]

Ok, for the summoning that makes sense, but I still don't understand why Magane would get Resurection when she wasn't even there to do anything, other than make audience aproval a non-factor. Like, she knew that Sota needed that, but she didn't directly contribute to Setsuna coming to life, even through the reversal of the audience aproval thing. Again, it was Sota who caused Setsuna to come to life, Magane just made it to where no prerequisites were needed for it to happen.

 

[RM97]

Sota didn't cause it tho. He wrote Setsuna with the final memories of her life but it was Magane's power which turned the Birdcage plot into the Train Station scenario and was somehow bring Setsuna back into life as a character. The conversations and interactions in Episode 21 and 22 heavily imply that Setsuna was able to come back from the dead with Setsuna even confirming that she came back to life somehow. To put it simply:-

-Sota Creates a scenario of the Train Station with a fake Setsuna as a Creation to Confront Altair

-Sota's creation wasn't getting any approval

-Everyone thought it won't work

-Magane's power hits off and turns the approval rate high

-Sota's plot was implemented in the Birdcage instantly

-Somehow the REAL Setsuna came back to life but as a Creation in Sota's plot

 

[ParadoxRegiement]

Eh, ok that makes sense then.

 

[ProspectX]

I suppose that fits for the current acasuality definition.

 

[ShiroEinzbern]

I'm 18 days late, detailed, and very convincing, should be this also in the Key in altair's page(dont mind if it is already made)

Edit: How about adding to her profile that she's Acausal through unconventional means?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This was added weeks ago.