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So there was a discussion here about the true nature of Altair's Abstract Existence.
Under the current justification for Altair's abilities, Altair is the conceptual embodiement of "The Story Altair" which has no canonicity, constantly being changed and enhanced by different creators adding to her story. With this interpretantion, she's the collective embodiment of all Altairs created by different creators....Lancer's blog on that is here...I reject this interpretation. I think her abstract existence is played up to a ceratin degree.
1) First, the only evidence provided for her being the conceptual embodiment of "The Story Altair" is a character saying "The plot we created the foreshadowing, the characters....they were all no match for Altair..Or the story known as Altair." This could be interpreted several ways, but it certainly isn't by itself enough to say that she is the embodiment of "The Story Of Altair" herself and contains all aspects of every Altair ever created within her.
2) To say that Altair has type 1 Acausality because it is stated that Altair has "No Background" is fallacious. Altair is still bound by linear time (Because there's nothing to suggest that she isn't), the same as anyone else in her verse, using this as an argument to back up that claim is....not correct...the only reason the creators couldn't just change her character description (Her past, which means...she has a past to change..which completely negates the "no background" reasoning.) to make her weaker is because the audience (The other creators) likely wouldn't accept it (Meaning, if the audience did accept it, they could do it), which is more so a resistance to temporal manipulation feat rather than flat out not being affected by temporal attacks (Which is a true type 1 Acasual).
3) "So are you saying that Altair is not a type 4 conceptual?" No. I believe she is a conceptual embodiment...I believe she is the embodiment of the "The idea of Altair" and as seen here she states that her existence is sustained by the creators constantly creating different stories for her. As seen on Lancer's Blog , when a creator creates using their thoughts and imagination, those creations are manifested as different possibilities in alternate timelines. So, I say all of this to say that Altair is indeed a conceptual existence of "The idea of Altair" but she relies on the imagination and thoughts of creators creating alternate Altairs, perpetuating "The idea of Altair".
Also, there is no evidence to suggest that Altair is the collective of every single altair ever made by creators....Which is the current accepted interpretation. This interpretation wouldn't be so bad if Altair had at least displayed memories of the other stories and creators....but she hasn't so there's 0 evidence for it.
4) Now I'll be talking about the weaknesses behind her regen which relies on the the "Idea of Altair" being perpetuated by the creators. What are ways to get around this? Oh...I don't know...possibly busting the universe/world that the creators reside inside of...and since standard battle assumptions and verse equalization should make the humans surrounding the fight be the equivilent of Altair's creators, this would mean if her opponent decides to bust the entire earth, Altair would cease to exist because the idea of Altair would cease to exist.
5) If we haven't seen Altair using an ability without weapons, we shouldn't assume she can. Also, just because we've seen Altair use some abilities without weapons, doesn't mean she can use all of her abilities without the use weapons or objects. There are several abilities which Altair has that have never been used without the use of a weapon or object.
SOME STATEMENTS MADE BY LANCER AND ASSALT:
Assalt ~"None of what you listed is anything we haven't already seen and doesn't indicate reliance or even existence of multiple Altairs."
Lancers blog begs to differ. In the first two sentences he provides proof that creators imagination gives birth to new "worlds" each world being different from one another along with the characters being different (AKA alternate timelines and alternate characters). There is no statement anywhere that says the abstract existence know as Altair is a collective of all of her alternate selves created by different creators (Which is what lancer and you are saying).
Lancer~ "Altair has no Alternate Versions. She IS the collective idea and creation of all the fanfics and Fanarts and fanvideos. This is one of the reasons why she exists as an Abstraction. Burden of proof falls on you to show that she has Alternate Versions because it was never implied that she has Alternate Versions."
That's not how burden of proof works.
TL; DR:
Altair shouldn't have type 1 acausality.
Altair's Abstract Existence is overplayed without proof.
Altair can only use an ability without weapons, that she has been shown to use without weapons.
Altair's regen has a severe weakness considering the fact that creators sustain her existence.
My...first downgrade thread....
Under the current justification for Altair's abilities, Altair is the conceptual embodiement of "The Story Altair" which has no canonicity, constantly being changed and enhanced by different creators adding to her story. With this interpretantion, she's the collective embodiment of all Altairs created by different creators....Lancer's blog on that is here...I reject this interpretation. I think her abstract existence is played up to a ceratin degree.
1) First, the only evidence provided for her being the conceptual embodiment of "The Story Altair" is a character saying "The plot we created the foreshadowing, the characters....they were all no match for Altair..Or the story known as Altair." This could be interpreted several ways, but it certainly isn't by itself enough to say that she is the embodiment of "The Story Of Altair" herself and contains all aspects of every Altair ever created within her.
2) To say that Altair has type 1 Acausality because it is stated that Altair has "No Background" is fallacious. Altair is still bound by linear time (Because there's nothing to suggest that she isn't), the same as anyone else in her verse, using this as an argument to back up that claim is....not correct...the only reason the creators couldn't just change her character description (Her past, which means...she has a past to change..which completely negates the "no background" reasoning.) to make her weaker is because the audience (The other creators) likely wouldn't accept it (Meaning, if the audience did accept it, they could do it), which is more so a resistance to temporal manipulation feat rather than flat out not being affected by temporal attacks (Which is a true type 1 Acasual).
3) "So are you saying that Altair is not a type 4 conceptual?" No. I believe she is a conceptual embodiment...I believe she is the embodiment of the "The idea of Altair" and as seen here she states that her existence is sustained by the creators constantly creating different stories for her. As seen on Lancer's Blog , when a creator creates using their thoughts and imagination, those creations are manifested as different possibilities in alternate timelines. So, I say all of this to say that Altair is indeed a conceptual existence of "The idea of Altair" but she relies on the imagination and thoughts of creators creating alternate Altairs, perpetuating "The idea of Altair".
Also, there is no evidence to suggest that Altair is the collective of every single altair ever made by creators....Which is the current accepted interpretation. This interpretation wouldn't be so bad if Altair had at least displayed memories of the other stories and creators....but she hasn't so there's 0 evidence for it.
4) Now I'll be talking about the weaknesses behind her regen which relies on the the "Idea of Altair" being perpetuated by the creators. What are ways to get around this? Oh...I don't know...possibly busting the universe/world that the creators reside inside of...and since standard battle assumptions and verse equalization should make the humans surrounding the fight be the equivilent of Altair's creators, this would mean if her opponent decides to bust the entire earth, Altair would cease to exist because the idea of Altair would cease to exist.
5) If we haven't seen Altair using an ability without weapons, we shouldn't assume she can. Also, just because we've seen Altair use some abilities without weapons, doesn't mean she can use all of her abilities without the use weapons or objects. There are several abilities which Altair has that have never been used without the use of a weapon or object.
SOME STATEMENTS MADE BY LANCER AND ASSALT:
Assalt ~"None of what you listed is anything we haven't already seen and doesn't indicate reliance or even existence of multiple Altairs."
Lancers blog begs to differ. In the first two sentences he provides proof that creators imagination gives birth to new "worlds" each world being different from one another along with the characters being different (AKA alternate timelines and alternate characters). There is no statement anywhere that says the abstract existence know as Altair is a collective of all of her alternate selves created by different creators (Which is what lancer and you are saying).
Lancer~ "Altair has no Alternate Versions. She IS the collective idea and creation of all the fanfics and Fanarts and fanvideos. This is one of the reasons why she exists as an Abstraction. Burden of proof falls on you to show that she has Alternate Versions because it was never implied that she has Alternate Versions."
That's not how burden of proof works.
TL; DR:
Altair shouldn't have type 1 acausality.
Altair's Abstract Existence is overplayed without proof.
Altair can only use an ability without weapons, that she has been shown to use without weapons.
Altair's regen has a severe weakness considering the fact that creators sustain her existence.
My...first downgrade thread....
