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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

omegabronic said:
in his last Key he should have all other types of Immortality and hax that being dead in Toei gives instead of only type 7 https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vegeta_(Toei)#Dead
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Actually, I intend to change that. We see in the Vegeta V Buu episode when he buys Goku a minute that the immortality doesn’t apply in the same way it does for Denizens of Hell while they’re in Hell. (Specifically, Goku makes his canon statement of “If you die while dead, you cease to exist.”) So those immortalities should be “When within proper afterlife,” or “Hell-Specific.”

Edit: Leaning former because the dead Z-Fighters were immortal on King Kai’s planet iirc.
 
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Huesito88 said:
So is GT Goku a more skilled fighter than "Super" Goku?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Last I recall GT Goku doesn't have any skill feats even remotely approaching what Super Goku has with him canceling universal destruction by precisely synchronizing his punches with Beerus' or everything and anything relating to Hit and, of course, Ultra Instinct.

Off the top of my head I recall his best skill feat being him defeating Eis Shenron while blind. Which Gohan does in Super. Difference being that GT Goku beat Eis Shenron via superior senses whereas Lavender negated Gohan's Ki Sense, vision and his ability to hear him (by flying) so Gohan had to intelligently pulse his Ki to 'feel' where Lavender was. Which is higher IQ than just "I have really sharp senses."

But I'm not that knowledgeable about GT so if people have some good examples of skill I'd love to see them.
 
So like, in my opinion, it depends on what we mean by skill. If we’re talking solely martial arts, or including Ki.

If it’s solely martial arts, they’re about even? You have to remember that GTku is also Toeiku, which means a lot of his skill feats aren’t from GT. (And not many exist in GT, to be honest.)

So, for example, GTku is at a level of skill that he can face 4 people just as strong and fast as himself (if not superior in stats) with superior martial arts knowledge to himself off raw skill alone (Goku V Perfected Multiform Cell), has directly went up against an individual who collects the entire memory of everyone he’s ever possessed (including their combat knowledge) and held up against him, albeit temporarily as his stamina made him unable to keep up in stats and caused his form to run out, (SSJ3 Goku V Baby Vegeta), can fight heroes who’ve been training for thousands of years (Afterlife Tournament), etc. GTku is also able to predict teleports and fight with that knowledge, which while not the same, (and SLOWER), is similar to predicting Hit’s Time Skip.

If we’re talking explicitly Hax involved martial arts skill, like Ki, prrrrobably Super Goku. GTku isn’t a slouch—He has the precise Ki Control to utilize Super Saiyan and Kaioken at once, can automatically counter techniques just by adapting his Ki to what he’s fighting against, (none of Omega Shenron’s hax abilities in his combo did damage because SSJ4 Goku adapted to all of them previously), and I think the best skill feat GTku has is adapting to and resisting absorption by simply hearing of Cell being able to absorb people. “Hearing” being his own mental awareness while sleeping and being told Cell could. That, plus the inherent regulation of Ki with his tail that amplifies precision and reduces drain makes me believe GTku is the more precise between the two of them, and could probably do more if given the same tools Super Goku did.

However, that in itself doesn’t stack up to the skill of Super Goku, who figured out how to calculate the exact force and angle to nullify universe destroying attacks in 3 tries, mastered a martial art that has multi-million to billion year old gods stumped, can use his Ki in more creative ways (God Bind, Hakai, Destructioning Objects), etc.

However, in trade I think GTku is just a lot smarter than Super Goku. At least in terms of long form strategy. Him, Trunks, and Pan on two occasions were able to plan and create an opening to confront Baby (Planet Pital and Planet M2), by staging specific events in their own favor to get him to reveal himself. Then against Naturon Shenron, he played to the Shadow Dragon’s ego to save Pan from his absorption, and against Omega Shenron he was able to plan with Nuova Shenron to achieve a game winning guaranteed kill. It only failed because Omega revealed he had the power to possess other Shadow Dragons.

So in pure hands, even-ish? Skill as in Precision with Ki? GTku. Skill as in Hax with Ki? Superku. Actual Strategic Intelligence? GTku.

That’s just my opinion though.
 
Can Goku and DB characters in general bypass type 2concept manipulation defenses/defense that's conceptual in nature because of their higher-dimensional AP?
 
Theres a thing i always wanted to do with Goku and other martial artist. I dont really have the motivation to repeat the same bullshit against the same guys across all platform.

My plan was to put Goku against the most popular ones. Short description about their abilities with the full context, what they would do in character etc Basically like a tournament format. You click on that icon and it tells you how Goku counters etc

I thought about Youtube but goddamn the amount of work or maybe a google sheet but no one would read that.

I think i will add a full break down of some very popular guys under traditional rules and mostly just stick to visuals. Everytime i hear "Goku displayed zero martial skills" ... them weirdos have no idea what they are watching. Beautiful sweeps and throws, good clinch work, Tysons famous 1:1 hook and other cool stuff. You guys know i dont care about visuals but im gonna end this shit.

But it made me realize that Goku really needs martial arts hax. Take Garou or better known as Larou (CV meme cuz OPM fans got destroyed by DB guys). He might be 1 level below compared to other guys in some aspects but he got the equalizer or better said multiple. He got some much fire power.

Why it matters, base Goku has a good defense with his own talent and what he can do with KI but doing all the micro skill management with KI is stressful which leads to mistakes. Larou could oneshot him if he does a mistake or even if Goku manages to dodge and roll with everything, theres still Garous radation hax which still kills him by the end.

You guys want conceptual hax and i want 1 friggin martial arts hax.
 
Broyswag said:
Theres a thing i always wanted to do with Goku and other martial artist. I dont really have the motivation to repeat the same bullshit against the same guys across all platform.

My plan was to put Goku against the most popular ones. Short description about their abilities with the full context, what they would do in character etc Basically like a tournament format. You click on that icon and it tells you how Goku counters etc

I thought about Youtube but goddamn the amount of work or maybe a google sheet but no one would read that.

I think i will add a full break down of some very popular guys under traditional rules and mostly just stick to visuals. Everytime i hear "Goku displayed zero martial skills" ... them weirdos have no idea what they are watching. Beautiful sweeps and throws, good clinch work, Tysons famous 1:1 hook and other cool stuff. You guys know i dont care about visuals but im gonna end this shit.

But it made me realize that Goku really needs martial arts hax. Take Garou or better known as Larou (CV meme cuz OPM fans got destroyed by DB guys). He might be 1 level below compared to other guys in some aspects but he got the equalizer or better said multiple. He got some much fire power.

Why it matters, base Goku has a good defense with his own talent and what he can do with KI but doing all the micro skill management with KI is stressful which leads to mistakes. Larou could oneshot him if he does a mistake or even if Goku manages to dodge and roll with everything, theres still Garous radation hax.

You guys want conceptual hax and i want 1 friggin martial arts hax.
Click to expand...
Define "martial arts hax"
 
Broyswag said:
Theres a thing i always wanted to do with Goku and other martial artist. I dont really have the motivation to repeat the same bullshit against the same guys across all platform.

My plan was to put Goku against the most popular ones. Short description about their abilities with the full context, what they would do in character etc Basically like a tournament format. You click on that icon and it tells you how Goku counters etc

I thought about Youtube but goddamn the amount of work or maybe a google sheet but no one would read that.

I think i will add a full break down of some very popular guys under traditional rules and mostly just stick to visuals. Everytime i hear "Goku displayed zero martial skills" ... them weirdos have no idea what they are watching. Beautiful sweeps and throws, good clinch work, Tysons famous 1:1 hook and other cool stuff. You guys know i dont care about visuals but im gonna end this shit.

But it made me realize that Goku really needs martial arts hax. Take Garou or better known as Larou (CV meme cuz OPM fans got destroyed by DB guys). He might be 1 level below compared to other guys in some aspects but he got the equalizer or better said multiple. He got some much fire power.

Why it matters, base Goku has a good defense with his own talent and what he can do with KI but doing all the micro skill management with KI is stressful which leads to mistakes. Larou could oneshot him if he does a mistake or even if Goku manages to dodge and roll with everything, theres still Garous radation hax.

You guys want conceptual hax and i want 1 friggin martial arts hax.
Click to expand...
Ok Goku has reached the apex of martial's arts and thanks to that now being so skilled, he can now destroy people's and Universe's concepts with his punches 😛
 
Broyswag said:
abilities that ignor convential durability
Click to expand...
Doesn't Gogeta have one? I'm pretty sure it's stated in the Broly Novel that Meteor Explosion is literally just Gogeta using your own energy against you from within your body (after injecting his own into you) to blow you up from the inside out.

EDIT:
Misread/misremembered it. It's apparently a detonation of all the Ki that Gogeta punches into you. Still bypassing conventional durability via damaging you interally, though. However, that definition of a "Martial Arts Hax" seems pretty weird in general. Anyway, here's the passage.

"Gogeta and Broly's fists collided. The sheer pressure of their clash blows away the surroundings and lava erupts from the ground. Broly could be seen screaming as if crying for help as he had been blown away by the impact. His hair had turned back golden and his facial expression was distorted with pain.

Gogeta pursued him instantly, and drove a fist packed with enough ki straight into Broly's stomach. As Broly is blown away, he moves in and lands another hit. He then accelerates and drives a fist charged with compressed ki into him.

Entrapped by Gogeta's ki, Broly's body starts trembling as if electrocuted and rises into the air. Together with a shout, Gogeta detonates all the ki that was gathered inside of Broly's body. The pale energy that was seeping out of Broly's body caused a giant explosion.

The resulting shock wave could be felt all the way to the high ground where Bulma had taken refuge and had been watching the battle unfold with Whis."
 
Last edited:
omegabronic said:
I mean.....if the talk is about purely skill then wouldn't these type of hax....not matter?
Click to expand...

Thats not even the worst part. Goku isnt allowed to use any KI (not even for covering his skin) and they want him to be naked.

Back then i mostly sticked to visuals thats why I did many break downs and Goku is very skilled (not the best one, that goes to catch wrestling based japanese books).
Huesito88 said:
Ok Goku has reached the apex of martial's arts and thanks to that now being so skilled, he can now destroy people's and Universe's concepts with his punches 😛
Click to expand...

i dont want goku to be the number 1 and have zero problems with comic guys being the apex predators under every setting when it comes to H2H (This comes from a big Kenshiro fan)

Since you are a saint shoua fan ... are you familiar with vectorprime? Vectorprime is or better was a well known downplayer like sun level apollo, hades got killed by love etc. Every dragonball threads feels like you are discussing with at least 5 of them. It even gets worse once you go the hax/martial arts route. Imagin repeating the basics of the basics all over again.

I think a website would be the best solution. I didnt plan to add visuals from a traditional perspective, or the whole UI thing getting a different treatment in other verses. Im just going the full ultra instinct route and add every single thing.

Im only doing this for Toriyama and wont tolerate downplay.
 
Broyswag said:
Since you are a saint shoua fan ... are you familiar with vectorprime? Vectorprime is or better was a well known downplayer like sun level apollo, hades got killed by love etc. Every dragonball threads feels like you are discussing with at least 5 of them. It even gets worse once you go the hax/martial arts route. Imagin repeating the basics of the basics all over again.
Click to expand...
Haven't heard of him, though I do recall hearing such ludicrous downplaying claims similar to that for Saint Seiya
 
RedReaper616 said:
Doesn't Gogeta have one? I'm pretty sure it's stated in the Broly Novel that Meteor Explosion is literally just Gogeta using your own energy against you from within your body (after injecting his own into you) to blow you up from the inside out.

EDIT:
Misread/misremembered it. It's apparently a detonation of all the Ki that Gogeta punches into you. Still bypassing conventional durability via damaging you interally, though. However, that definition of a "Martial Arts Hax" seems pretty weird in general. Anyway, here's the passage.

"Gogeta and Broly's fists collided. The sheer pressure of their clash blows away the surroundings and lava erupts from the ground. Broly could be seen screaming as if crying for help as he had been blown away by the impact. His hair had turned back golden and his facial expression was distorted with pain.

Gogeta pursued him instantly, and drove a fist packed with enough ki straight into Broly's stomach. As Broly is blown away, he moves in and lands another hit. He then accelerates and drives a fist charged with compressed ki into him.

Entrapped by Gogeta's ki, Broly's body starts trembling as if electrocuted and rises into the air. Together with a shout, Gogeta detonates all the ki that was gathered inside of Broly's body. The pale energy that was seeping out of Broly's body caused a giant explosion.

The resulting shock wave could be felt all the way to the high ground where Bulma had taken refuge and had been watching the battle unfold with Whis."
Click to expand...

Yeah i remember that. Its basically like a bodyshot but instead of shutting down your whole system, it destroys you from the inside.

My hopes are big for Goku unlocking some neat deadly techniques once he gets better with UI.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
No.
Click to expand...
Why not? Aren't dependant concepts bound to the dimensionality of the verse? Like, it controls all the area of influence over reality, and reality is 3D in this context, so shouldn't Goku just casually shatter through the conceptual barrier since he's 4D?
Fezzih_007 said:
What character exactly are you refering that have that defense?
Click to expand...
I'm just talking about Goku being able to bypass concept type 2 characters in general
 
Huh. I checked The Pefect Files and I can't see anything on just how cold Eis' Shenron's ability is. Unfortunate. (It's cited on tons of websites as "Absolute Zero" with no scans. The closest I can get to one is from the G1 Blog, which took from XV2's move name, something that only works if you composite, one, but TWO, only works if you ignore that names of attack names don't matter.)
 
I remember when Yamcha used to be the real deal --- used to be a big fan of that guy but he got that random mc dondalds guy treatment

2145034d64bbf5ac3b756d8262efdbb9.gif


But at least theres still raid boss Yamcha ... small justice
images
 
Phsccarvalho said:
On the bright side, TOEI verse Yamcha defeated Recoome, and in the game he has 5-D + Dimensional Domain.
Click to expand...

i remember one thing ... nothing amazin or funny

I was so mad at raid boss yamcha that i throwed my controller across the entire room, somehow it went through the window and then entered the gym... like bro that was some instant transmission type of bullshit.

My dads old coach since his childhood is from the soviet post-war boxing era. Cool and down to earth guy. Very respectful and cares for the health of his students which is a rare thing in the modern era.

Long story, he said "you wanna play the dragonball game", put my ass into the gym and told me and the others to help the artist for this here cuz he wanted to save some money. It was a big ass wall and I dont remember how long it took but i do remember thats when i started to buy Toriyamas artbooks.
b7d6ydkouw131.jpg


Hes still a big fan of dragonball and likes Whis/other masters way of teaching: teach the basics ad nauseam, drill the technique(s), but leave the style and approach to you.
 
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