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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

There's something that I'm confused about. It's stated in the manga that people can become so evil they are considered demons and that if demons kill people, their souls are lost and are unable to pass on to the Afterlife without the guidance of a Guardian. Kami used this to determine Piccolo was no longer evil, as King Piccolo's victims were in purgatory when killed while Goku and Raditz passed on just fine at Piccolo's hands.

Has that ever been discussed here in detail before? Like what abilities this could grant King Piccolo? Not to mention villains like Freeza and Kid Buu who are both considered embodiments of evil as bad or worse than him.

Serlock_Holmes said:
What does this mean? Also damn never really appreciated those scenes. They look amazing.
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If you mean my post, it was a discussion about areas in Hell and how Vegeta could see the events on Earth from there. Basically just pointing out that Hell has many different levels to it in both the anime and manga versions of DBS and that Freeza's Hell was unique.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
There's something that I'm confused about. It's stated in the manga that people can become so evil they are considered demons and that if demons kill people, their souls are lost and are unable to pass on to the Afterlife without the guidance of a Guardian. Kami used this to determine Piccolo was no longer evil, as King Piccolo's victims were in purgatory when killed while Goku and Raditz passed on just fine at Piccolo's hands.

Has that ever been discussed here in detail before? Like what abilities this could grant King Piccolo? Not to mention villains like Freeza and Kid Buu who are both considered embodiments of evil as bad or worse than him.


If you mean my post, it was a discussion about areas in Hell and how Vegeta could see the events on Earth from there. Basically just pointing out that Hell has many different levels to it in both the anime and manga versions of DBS and that Freeza's Hell was unique.
Click to expand...

Kind of like the personal hell thing? Would that help in anything?
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Has that ever been discussed here in detail before? Like what abilities this could grant King Piccolo? Not to mention villains like Freeza and Kid Buu who are both considered embodiments of evil as bad or worse than him.
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I've never actually thought about that. Yeah, someone should make a thread for that.
 
Was that evee brought up again? Maybe it has been retchonned. Did krillin go somewhere else after being killed by Frieza or people killed by Buu?
 
Damage3245 said:
Yes. Don't take my words out of context like you made some witty point.
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Nothing about it is out of context. It just shows that you personally would rather take anti-feats as primary scaling points as opposed to good feats. I posted it to show why you hold the stances you do, you prefer anti-feats. Trying to deny what you’ve written makes you look disingenuous
Damage3245 said:
You just come across as ignorant.
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And you come across as disingenuous, someone who can’t even own up to what he says. Also this is far from the worst stuff I’ve seen written by you.
Damage3245 said:
Don't actually pretend that we don't dismiss anti-feats and feats simply because it doesn't fit into our existing powerscaling so we call them Outliers
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We have perfectly valid explanations for dismissing anti-feats for many verses. Ki control, AoE, author’s intent, etc. All of these are legit arguments that don’t rely on headcanon that you do. The reason you prefer anti-feats over feats is because the opposite hurts your headcanon. That’s all there is to it.
Damage3245 said:
. How many years did it take to get Roshi's feat on his page?
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And we have people like you to thank for it. Do you even hear yourself? You just stated that it took years to get Roshi where he belongs because you love to stonewall and dismiss feats/statements. Congrats, anything else you wanna add?
 
Hasty12345 said:
you need to chill
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Agreed. That post above isn't even worth responding to because the user is just interested in bashing me instead of learning that he's wrong.

Arguing with haters is a waste of time.

Instead I'll just take pleasure in knowing that even if he hates me and thinks I'm "disingenuous", there's not a single thing he can do to stop me, lol.
 
SwordLegendz01 said:
Is this what you guys are talking about?
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Yes, that seems to be what I am referring to. Although that's specifically for the Demon Clan whereas I am under the impression that anyone evil enough can be considered a 'demon' and have the same effect. Part of that is because Jiren's master was killed by a demon and cannot be revived by an Angel's power and the only way we've ever seen someone be revived by an Angel is by interacting with their soul directly (Example: Freeza). Not to mention Piccolo went from being a demon to a non-demon simply by a shift in morality, it's clearly not a physiological thing. It's a karmic influence.
 
Last edited:
Serlock_Holmes said:
Was that evee brought up again? Maybe it has been retchonned. Did krillin go somewhere else after being killed by Frieza or people killed by Buu?
Click to expand...
I don't believe it was ever stated or shown that Krillin was in the Afterlife when killed by Freeza. There are victims of Super Buu and Innocent Buu that are shown in the Afterlife but nothing for Kid Buu, who is the real 'pure evil' incarnation. And I'd argue that was because of the Grand Supreme Kai in Super and Innocent Buu.
 
MeiouHades said:
“The user pointed out my hypocrisy. Ugh why doesn’t he learn he’s wrong?? At least he can’t do anything cuz I’m a mod tho lol”
Click to expand...
"This mod is so unfair, voting for what he believes is right?! Why can't he vote for what I believe is right instead?"

That's how you sound too.
 
Alright alright guys chill. Let's move on to other topics.

CryoTheMayo said:
I don't believe it was ever stated or shown that Krillin was in the Afterlife when killed by Freeza. There are victims of Super Buu and Innocent Buu that are shown in the Afterlife but nothing for Kid Buu, who is the real 'pure evil' incarnation. And I'd argue that was because of the Grand Supreme Kai in Super and Innocent Buu.
Click to expand...

I feel that if Krillin didn't go to the Afterlife it would have been pointed out and the same stands for Kid Buu. It's one of those things that people would have noted. It not being a big deal makes me thing it was retchnonned and everyone just goes to the Afterlife. If you have more proof of it though I wouldn't mind changing my view.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Yes, that seems to be what I am referring to. Although that's specifically for the Demon Clan whereas I am under the impression that anyone evil enough can be considered a 'demon' and have the same effect.
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Demon King Piccolo and his Dark Vassals are pure evil, which is why their bodies had been corrupted and mutated.
Nappa happened to be evil, too, and the Z-Fighters all appeared in Other World.
 
Eh the mythos between Dragon Ball and Z was really different. Even during the Piccolo fight things were much more Eastern. After that the theme significantly changed.
 
Sounds like Iyoku has had some friction at Shueisha for at least a year and we could be getting a new company for the Anime and Games, Capsule Corp Tokyo.

Nullflowerblush said:
Demon King Piccolo and his Dark Vassals are pure evil, which is why their bodies had been corrupted and mutated.
Nappa happened to be evil, too, and the Z-Fighters all appeared in Other World.
Click to expand...
Has Nappa ever been stated to be as evil as King Piccolo or his children? If we have clear examples of someone being as evil as him and their victims being confirmed to pass on properly then that would 100% debunk my interpretation and show it's unique to his clan.

I'll accept that there isn't enough evidence for what I think either way. I don't believe we've ever seen one of Freeza's victims end up in the Afterlife but it's true that isn't really confirmation. The closest is Gicchin being killed by someone referred to as a demon but it isn't stated if that was a literal demon or a demon like Piccolo.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I'll accept that there isn't enough evidence for what I think either way. I don't believe we've ever seen one of Freeza's victims end up in the Afterlife but it's true that isn't really confirmation. The closest is Gicchin being killed by someone referred to as a demon but it isn't stated if that was a literal demon or a demon like Piccolo.
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Wasn't Vegeta killed by Freezer, yet revived by the Dragon Balls?

Edit: And Krillin certainly was
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Wasn't Vegeta killed by Freezer, yet revived by the Dragon Balls?

Edit: And Krillin certainly was
Click to expand...
All of the victims of King Piccolo and his children were revived, so clearly the DBs don't care about whether the souls are in limbo. If you mean Angels being unable to revive people killed by demons then that also doesn't confirm anything because Shenron could just have better resurrection than Angels.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Sounds like Iyoku has had some friction at Shueisha for at least a year and we could be getting a new company for the Anime and Games, Capsule Corp Tokyo.
Click to expand...
Now we know why we didn't get an Anime.. (why there are no manga characters in Xenoverse and co)

Though I don't get how this works. I always thought, Toei had the rights for the Anime.

Regardless feel like this will result in a huge mess
 
SirAlex09 said:
Now we know why we didn't get an Anime.. (why there are no manga characters in Xenoverse and co)

Though I don't get how this works. I always thought, Toei had the rights for the Anime.

Regardless feel like this will result in a huge mess
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure we've already been through the mess. The manga hiatus, lack of news on anything, no anime, etc is probably all because of this situation. Iyoku no longer works at Shueisha and it's extremely unlikely his company will get the rights to the anime and games. The only way this could continue is if he somehow got his way. I've also heard Iyoku is some sort of nostalgia diehard and is the one who pushed things like Future Trunks, Gohan Beast (If you somehow don't know compare it to SS2 Teen Gohan.) and so on into Super so it's possible that without his influence we'll see less nostalgia bait in the future.

I don't want to demonise some guy I don't even know but currently I have the feeling that Iyoku has been more or less responsible for the past year of absolute nothing and him being kept out of DB will end up healthy for the IP.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I'm pretty sure we've already been through the mess. The manga hiatus, lack of news on anything, no anime, etc is probably all because of this situation. Iyoku no longer works at Shueisha and it's extremely unlikely his company will get the rights to the anime and games. The only way this could continue is if he somehow got his way. I've also heard Iyoku is some sort of nostalgia diehard and is the one who pushed things like Future Trunks, Gohan Beast (If you somehow don't know compare it to SS2 Teen Gohan.) and so on into Super so it's possible that without his influence we'll see less nostalgia bait in the future.

I don't want to demonise some guy I don't even know but currently I have the feeling that Iyoku has been more or less responsible for the past year of absolute nothing and him being kept out of DB will end up healthy for the IP.
Click to expand...
I feel like him making his owm company is an overly bold move if he doesn't have an ace up his sleeve which I presume.

He probably co owns Dragonball to some degree. Probably like 20% and the remaining % are split between Toriyama and Shueisha.

I mean why else would Shueisha consider negotiating with him? It wouldn't make sense if he doesn't have anything over them.

In the worst case scenario the power struggle will cost us both Tenkaichi 4 and DBS season 2...
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I don't believe it was ever stated or shown that Krillin was in the Afterlife when killed by Freeza. There are victims of Super Buu and Innocent Buu that are shown in the Afterlife but nothing for Kid Buu, who is the real 'pure evil' incarnation. And I'd argue that was because of the Grand Supreme Kai in Super and Innocent Buu.
Click to expand...
Hm. It’s not very clear. It’s (weakly) implied here that Krillin never made it to King Kai, (as Piccolo establishes a difference between Krillin versus “those who are at King Kai’s”), but it could be that Piccolo was referring to the state of their Souls Pre-Revival, as Krillin’s was directly Summoned. We also know that Krillin’s Soul was to some degree trapped on Namek, because if he was revived he’d appear there to die again because he’d revive there. However, this is directly treated as the revival standard—Not something Krillin is dealing with due to circumstances, but that everyone revives where they die (Cosmic Jurisdiction, as it where).

Personally, I don’t think Frieza qualifies. At least, not at the moment. Though none of Frieza’s victims are ever seen in the afterlife, funnily enough…
 
CryoTheMayo said:
All of the victims of King Piccolo and his children were revived, so clearly the DBs don't care about whether the souls are in limbo. If you mean Angels being unable to revive people killed by demons then that also doesn't confirm anything because Shenron could just have better resurrection than Angels.
Click to expand...
Like Evil Buu, Demon King Piccolo is Kami's evil expunged and given form, his Ki described as "demonic".
異常気象が原因で地球へ来た1人のナメック星人が、神になるために悪の心を追い出した結果、 "悪"が実体化。以降、魔族という悪の集団を増やしていった。
A Namekian that migrated to the Earth due to abnormal weather conditions expelled his evil heart in order to become a god, and as a result, "evil" materialized. Since then, the evil group called "demons" has been increasing.
Click to expand...
They are the 魔族, the mazoku, "demons".
 
CryoTheMayo said:
So are you saying that Demon King Piccolo is more of a special existence as pure evil given form, akin to Evil Buu? So natural beings like Freeza shouldn't be considered?
Click to expand...
Evil Buu is the personification of the evil of humans that Buu expelled, I believe he should gain something from it
 
They might be.
I don't think Universe 11 had a Kami that split into a Piccolo. Just different races of demons.

Doesn't Garlic Jr. have the abilities?
 
RedReaper said:
You know, actually, shouldn’t Dabura also have the ability to prevent ascension into the Afterlife?
Click to expand...
Yes but ironically he might lack it in Toei because he became good while in Heaven. Notably, he was sent to Heaven because he could suffer most there rather than anywhere in Hell. Which reminds me of Freeza who was sent to a heavenly part of Hell as punishment. Which implies there is a difference between Freeza's Hell and Heaven that'd make it more bearable for Dabura.

Nullflowerblush said:
They might be.
I don't think Universe 11 had a Kami that split into a Piccolo. Just different races of demons.

Doesn't Garlic Jr. have the abilities?
Click to expand...
What about Janemba? I mean he's an existence of pure evil similar to King Piccolo, Evil Buu and Kid Buu.
 
omegabronic said:
does dabura qualifies as "pure evil" like, i know that he is indeed evil, but is he AS evil and King Piccolo and Kid Buu?
Click to expand...
Unknown, but it’s specifically about Demons, which evil can turn you into. In the case of Dabura, as a naturally born Demon it seems like he should also be capable of it, hence why I brought him up.
 
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