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Alex Mercer vs The Ancestor

Wokistan said:
What I am saying that her potency with regards to red light beings don't translate to her potency with regards to other red lights. Regardless of what's decided about that though, Alex has no way around the type 4.
His stealth mastery is by disguising as people and stuff, whereas the ancestor would in character kill anyone before him without a second thought here regardless of their appearance or anything. Void shields are a big issue to Alex, and I don't see him getting overrun before Alex goes insane due to the type 4.
Click to expand...
Mercer is not of Redlight, he is of Blacklight. And it does translate as she has been able to control the minds of millions of infected, and was even able to affect Mercer intially. Mercer's resistance to Mind Manipulation is not only valid, but it also scales from that. Though I do agree that there might not be a way around type 4 Madness Manipulation. Though if the Ancestor gets infected by Mercer, he is pretty much incapacitated. The Ancestor's lack of high-level Regenerationn puts him at a disadvantage here. Also, Mercer's range is explicitly stated to be several dozens of meters, with devastators being a bit higher, in his profile. I'm pretty sure The Ancestor starts at that distance, it's not like he starts outside of the city. The Ancestor's clairvoyance being limited to the opponent's ill intents doesn't help him gain information here.

Mercer's Devastators are known to strike the target at a distance from air or the ground. How would the Ancestor even see the Devastators pop up from the ground before he gets injured by it and then get infected? As for void shields, I'm pretty sure the infected gas bypasses that (unless you're saying the void shields surround the Ancestor from all directions, and protects him from gases?). Mercer becoming more powerful the more he absorbs living beings is also a factor here.

Also, what are the effects of the individuals driven to insanity by the Ancestor's type 4 Insanity? Do they simply become beserk individuals that attack anything close to them (or what they see as enemies)? Do they kill themselves? Do they just become unpredictable? What effect does it cause on the victims?
 
DeathNoodles said:
Also, what are the effects of the individuals driven to insanity by the Ancestor's type 4 Insanity?
Click to expand...
Well, merely revealing his plans to the Gibbering Prophet or whatever his name was caused him to literally rip out his own eyes and scream bloody murder. Staring at The Ancestor's true form is much, much worse considering it is the raw essence of that maddening plan to begin with.
 
Well, Mercer's resistance to type 3 would allow him to resist the former due to his valid resistance to Mind Manipulation (so I don't think revealing his plans would do anything other than waste his time), and I don't think Mercer ripping his eyes out and screaming in insanity would kill him nor put him out for good, though there's type 4 (which you've started to be far worse).

However, based from what I've read in the Ancestor's profile, that would require him to transform into an eldritch form to ustilise his type 4. Is it even in-character for the Ancestor to transform into an eldritch form from the very start of the fight? (And be honest with me here)

Based from that, the results of this fight would most likely be inconclusive. As Mercer can't deal with type 4 Madness Manipulation (which the Ancestor would need to morph into his true form in order to even use. His type 8 Immortality could also be a problem, if it's even combat applicable) and the Ancestor has no true way to resist the infection (which isn't as easy to avoid as you guys made it out to be. The infection is pretty quick, and it spreads out pretty far. The fact that Blacklight spreads from practically all forms of transmissions doesn't really help the Ancestor's odds here), the biological hax, or being able to permenantly put down Mercer for good due to his opponent's resistance to Biological Manipulation and Low-High Regenerationn (which he can't affect by flesh flaying, and fighting Mercer at close range is a very bad idea) it comes down to who makes the first move first.

I guess I'll vote for Inconclusive.
 
1. I agree diseases aren't going to inherently work trans-species. That's just how a disease works so unless it explicitly shows this quality, this is null.

2. If Mercer is truly a hivemind, then I would think it is on Ancestor to show he can affect that many minds as a collective. That said, if Mercer is not a Hive Mind in that way, then this point can be negated. But the fact stands, we tend to measure mind-fuckery in volume of minds haxxed. A Hive Mind, in that case, is extremely potent. This means Ancestor has to show proof of volume of minds destroyed, not Mercer.

3. With such an AP advantage, what stops Ancestor from just flaying Mercer alive? With no biomass, he can do that with a flick of his hand, and Mercer would be hard put to come back with nothing to regenerate with. His durability is a major disadvantage here.

4. Duplication makes this just another step in Ancestor's favor since Mercer has no way of knowing which one to incap first.

My verdict, for now, is for Ancestor. Even if Mindhax are invalid, Mercer's disease probably won't work on an otherworldly being if it has no showings of that. Based on that alone, Ancestor could easily insta-kill via flaying Mercer.

Voting Ancestor.
 
1. The Blacklight Virus scales from the Redlight Virus, which has shown to being able to infect even inanimate objects (showing some signs of Limited Matter Manipulation), and Mercer has consumed Elizabeth Greene (thus, should have all of her abilities). It's not null as the feats of infecting humans, animals, and inanimate objects shows otherwise. You can not assume that Blacklight is limited to typical diseases as the feats of Blacklight proves that Blacklight is anything but an ordinary disease. I don't need to show proof of Mercer's hax working on the Ancestor if the latter has not shown proof of resisting unnatural diseases such as that (I'm pretty sure that's how it works on this site). I'm pretty sure infecting inanimate objects can already cover the idea that eldritch abominations can be affected by it if they don't have proof of resisting it (what does being an eldritch abomination have to do with resisting supernatural diseases they haven't resisted before really?)

2. I'm pretty sure Mercer's profile stats that he has a hivemind and that he has control over it, so... Yeah. And it explicitly stated that Mercer literally immerses himself in all the minds of the infected within his own hivemind, so there's that.

3. While he does have an AP advantage, he's not going to affect Mercer with flesh flaying like I've said, as that's categorised as Biological Manipulation (which Mercer resists). How can the Ancestor even damage Mercer through that if he can't even influence Mercer's flesh in the first place? If you want to talk about AP advantage, then talk abot any other attacks that doesnh't involve Biological Manipulation (or any hax that Mercer hasn't resisted before, like type 4 Madness Manipulation).

4. He has such a thing called Viral Sonar. He would know exactly where the Ancestor is through that (Viral Sonar was shown to be able to locate a target across an entire city). As it can be used to locate singular targets, Mercer can tell which is the real one through it. As for the duplication advantage, that can be covered by the infected gases and the infected army (which has the sheer numbers advantage), and the fact that some of his Devastators can strike multiple targets isn't helping the Ancestor here.
 
1. What inanimate objects? If you mean the disease is in them, then yes, most diseases do that. My door knob can have the flu virus all over it but it isn't actually infected.

2. Then yeah. Mind fuckery is out for the most part unless Ancestor has shown the ability to put its will out over millions.

3. It's biological manip, yes, but largely all it does is takes the flesh off of him. That's a durability feat. Mercer can be one-shot by this lol.

4. Yes. But that doesn't help him find the exact one.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
1. What inanimate objects? If you mean the disease is in them, then yes, most diseases do that. My door knob can have the flu virus all over it but it isn't actually infected.
2. Then yeah. Mind fuckery is out for the most part unless Ancestor has shown the ability to put its will out over millions.

3. It's biological manip, yes, but largely all it does is takes the flesh off of him. That's a durability feat. Mercer can be one-shot by this lol.

4. Yes. But that doesn't help him find the exact one.
Click to expand...
1. Kind of difficult to apply that logic to the Blacklight Virus, as it has proven to be an unconventional disease by having Mercer absorbing inorganic objects (such as clothes, armour, and even being able to replicate electronic devices). I'm pretty sure we're not talking about an ordinary disease, and Blacklight isn't "most diseases". And Redlight has been shown to infect inanimate objects such as stop signs and metal railings, which Blacklight scales from.

2. Okay.

3. It... Still involves flesh being taken out of the enemes. Mercer is a shapeshifter that has resistance to Biological Manipulation (and has Low-High Regenerationn, as well as type 2, 3 and 7 Immortality). Even if the flesh falls out of Mercer, he can simply just absorb back into him again (and Mercer's type 2 Immortality means he's not going to get incapacitated from that. He can move and operate even when there's a huge hole in his head), or even just absorb the biomass of others around him to refill. That's even assuming that the Ancestor can telekinetically flay Mercer's flesh in the first place, which I doubt due to the latter having resistance to Biological Manipulation.

4. ...Technically, it can. How else was Heller (which Mercer scales from due to having Viral Sonar) able to locate and tell which target was which? Heller was able to use such to locate specific individuals, even when he doesn't know where they are beforehand (and Mercer has Viral Sonar as listed in his profile).
 
1. It isn't hard at all. Blacklight is a human disease. It affects humans. I don't seem to recall any gophers, badgers, crows, or squirrels with blacklight powers.

3. Mercer resists being changed biologically. Not being flayed. Considering Ancestor can easily do this, or just... you know, hit him, then I see this coming down to Ancestor beating the ever living hells out of Mercer.

4. Specific individuals, yes. But these are exact copies. So no. That isn't going to help.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
1. It isn't hard at all. Blacklight is a human disease. It affects humans. I don't seem to recall any gophers, badgers, crows, or squirrels with blacklight powers.
3. Mercer resists being changed biologically. Not being flayed. Considering Ancestor can easily do this, or just... you know, hit him, then I see this coming down to Ancestor beating the ever living hells out of Mercer.

4. Specific individuals, yes. But these are exact copies. So no. That isn't going to help.
Click to expand...
1. Then I assume you must not have read the Prototype comics (for on-screen feats) or watch the Web of Intrigue much from the game. It has shown proof that Redlight has infected animals such as tigers, chimps, etc. And since Mercer scales from that due to Blacklight being portrayed and stated to be superior to Redlight (as well as Mercer consuming Greene, which makes him have all her abilities by default). The fact that Redlight has infected buildings and turned them into diseased bases that can produce infected proves the feat of infecting inanimate objects as well.

3. Stripping the skin of targets involves changing them biologicall in a way. And Mercer has resistance to Biological Manipulation as it has said in his profile. AP advantage or otherwise, Mercer's flesh peeling off him would not be enough to put him down (as that seems less like the destructive power of the attack, and more like hax being used to damage the target). As for physical contact... That's a very bad idea, that would mean the Ancestor either gets infected from the gases, or he gets absorbed by Mercer through physical contact, which would force an inconclusive.

4. Are the copies even connected to the individuals mentally (as in, the original is piloting their bodies or something)? Do they have minds of their own? If not, then I'm pretty sure they're not exactly the same individuals, thus the Viral Sonar should work (Or, you know, he unleashes a Devastator that strikes all of them down. Or infects all of them with infected gases).
 
1. Got any scans?

3. No it doesn't. It involves causing their flesh to be ripped off.

4. No idea. I just know that they are exact replicas of the Ancestor.
 
1. https://prototype.wikia.com/wiki/File:prtComic-Infected_tiger.png

From what I can remember, the tiger was just one of the infected animals (from the Prototype wikia, it stated that chimps was also included as well, from what I can recall). That's still enough proof that Redlight can infect even animals, which Blacklight can also do, from that scan.

3. And how does their flesh rip off? If it just happens for some unknown reason, then Mercer simply resists it due to resisting Biological Manipulation (the fact that Mercer can manipulate all traces of the Blacklight Virus in existence at the Molecular level, as stated in his profile, means he can also prevent his body from being influenced. His pre-existing resistance to Biological Manipulation prevents this from becoming a NLF, I think).

4. ...Okay? If you have no idea, then I'll just have to assume Mercer can take them all out with a Devastator, infected gases, or using Viral Sonar (which you didn't exactly prove for why it shouldn't work) to locate the original.
 
Oh shit I forgot about this lol
 
and that

is grace
 
yeah but

a strong enough caterpie also beats mewtwo

weakness to bug smh
 
Well, I mean, Mewtwo was 5-A vs 5-A and Alex is Low 7-C vs Low 7-C

Also Alex is haxed as all fork in his own right
 
Literally nothing changes between 5A and Low 7C but AP

Mewtwo kinda destroys Alex even if he was 5A
 
Really?

Doesn't Alex resist more then enough mindhax then proceed to tap Mewtwo for absorbtion?
 
Not to mention MewTwo doesn't have like

practically any regen for Ancestor flaying him
 
Can fight 4 people who took this to the face with no real damage and proceeded to fight a being who did it upon waking up.

He also fought a monster on that level singlehandedly and stabbed it with a dagger.
 
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