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Personally, I think that the CH should be given all forms of weaponry available to mankind. After all, the CH is the supposed combination of all human beings, including those who carried swords, guns, axes & etc. all the time.
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Akame vs Combined Human
- Thread starter Nico-v11
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Yup, for Combined HumanNico-v11 said:
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Reasons? He has no weapon.
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I put them above, he would have the skills of every human that ever existed in a nutshellGargoyle 1 said:
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Akame: 3
Combined Human: 2
Inconclusive: 1
@Thunderclap no normal human is remotely capable of having the ability to know/remember the amount that Combined Human does, therefore I believe that his/her cognitive speed should be logically more developed than others. Hell the entire brain HAS to be way more advanced in every aspect in order to even be able to know the amount that he/she knows.
(I'm gonna just gloat here about how successful this thread was
)
Combined Human: 2
Inconclusive: 1
@Thunderclap no normal human is remotely capable of having the ability to know/remember the amount that Combined Human does, therefore I believe that his/her cognitive speed should be logically more developed than others. Hell the entire brain HAS to be way more advanced in every aspect in order to even be able to know the amount that he/she knows.
(I'm gonna just gloat here about how successful this thread was
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CH is the combination of every strength, intelligence and in general positive attributes of every human that ever existed. So yeah, it has, in fact, the combined computational ability of every human who ever existed. And we're not talking about someone who thinks pretty fast. We are talking about someone who create a strategy to win a war as soon as someone describes the situation to it
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Again, the CH's cognitive isn't additive at all. It just uses the best a human has ever had. That's why it's hard to quantify its actual intelligence.Nico-v11 said:Akame: 3
Combined Human: 2
Inconclusive: 1
@Thunderclap no normal human is remotely capable of having the ability to know/remember the amount that Combined Human does, therefore I believe that his/her cognitive speed should be logically more developed than others. Hell the entire brain HAS to be way more advanced in every aspect in order to even be able to know the amount that he/she knows.
(I'm gonna just gloat here about how successful this thread was
@Numbersguy
But doe any human have thought of a way to counter a poison katana that needs as much as a ******* papercut-tier injury to kill you? No? Exactly. Without a sword there really is no chance. Best case for CH (no weapon), it would stagnate.
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Really? The knowledge of every single human vs an assasin? It's not hard.
There is a counter, don't get scratched, Poison, while Hax, is the only thing Akame has. You overestimate the poison to automatically fix the fact that it has to scratch CH, not too mention Akame isn't that great of a swordsman, she's great, but far from perfect.
There is a counter, don't get scratched, Poison, while Hax, is the only thing Akame has. You overestimate the poison to automatically fix the fact that it has to scratch CH, not too mention Akame isn't that great of a swordsman, she's great, but far from perfect.
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Ask literally anyone inteligent tho - how do you go against a sword unarmed? And the answer will be: "You don't". You're missing the point that it's still a sword, and if a master of swordsmanship fought against me unarmed, and I had a sword, he wouldn't try to fight back even tho I'm far less skilled, he'd run because I HAVE A FU*KIN' SWORD.Gargoyle 1 said:
Besides, CH doesn't know that a scratch is enough to kill him. Also, in terms of swordsmanship, she's by far the best in the verse. Was on par with Esdeath before she used her OP stuff, and Esdeath had to use ice powers. She's better than Tatsumi, and Bulat was a ridiculously OP spearsman, but swords aren't his thing as much. Also, we saw how OP she is multiple times. I mean, it was against normal soldiers, but before they even realized what happened, she blitzed 3 of them and made a cut on their throats. If that doesn't show skill, what does?
@Nico-v11
Do it. Thing about CH is, he can access all the knowledge he has as fast as a human can remember anything in their head. But to think up new stuff, he is still technically human. He gets the best of it, but it's not like a supercomputer that can list you several milion ideas and calculations on one simple thing in a second. CH still needs to think, and with Murasame going after his throat, he doesn't really have much time to do so.
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Ask an intelligent person who actually knows sword wielding and they say to disarm them, Akame gets herself in a position where she can be disarmed, she will be unless she manages to scratch him.
You VASTLY overestimate Akame, to say she was on par with Esdeath is laughable, Esdeath exhausted Akame and wasn't even fazed in chapter 75. Gensei is leagues above her in swordsman, Bulat matches this guy blow for blow in his prime, and Kurome was scratching Akame left and right,"Oh but Kurome had a drug" that doesn't improve her swordsmanship, just her physics.
No, Base AGK Akame is far from the best swordsman.
You VASTLY overestimate Akame, to say she was on par with Esdeath is laughable, Esdeath exhausted Akame and wasn't even fazed in chapter 75. Gensei is leagues above her in swordsman, Bulat matches this guy blow for blow in his prime, and Kurome was scratching Akame left and right,"Oh but Kurome had a drug" that doesn't improve her swordsmanship, just her physics.
No, Base AGK Akame is far from the best swordsman.
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@Gargoyle
HAHAHAHAHAHA. No. Going against anyone that knows which side of the sword is sharp and has one in his/her hands is suicidal for anyone who isn't specifically made to counter swords.
You vastly underestimate Akame. Esdeath fought with a massive advantage of knowing what to avoid+instant sword blocking with ice. Gensei is better maybe, sure, but Bulat isn't as good as Gensei. Kurome is worse than Akame in swordsmanship via drug, yes. It enhances her physical abilities, and therefore her SPEED, REFLEXES and REACTION TIME. Which katanas are basically made for. I never said she's the best, I just said she's among the top tier in the anime. Keep in mind that she beat someone who can literally look at least a few seconds into the future.
@Ringo, @Nico-v11
OP never stated CH gets any equipment. He can forge a sword, sure, but, speaking as an engineering student...
1) it would take a while even with the current technologies, to make a good blade with a good isometric structure, it takes time. he has the knowledge how to do it, sure, but if we're gonna be realistic, even if he had literally every machine available to him, it would take a few days.
2) the quality of the blade, even if CH had a few days of prep wouldn't be able enough to match an anime sword (see Akame vs Zank for that.)
3) coming from #2, 3rd problem is the fact that he'd have to use a shield (higher thickness to avoid being destroyed), which adds more prep time required. ignore the prep time, and you just slow CH down with the shield.
4) If we use the numbers people got for Akame's speed, mach 20 (what is severely underestimating her, because she is more or less equal to Tatsumi), add to that the mass of an average katana that's about 1300 grams, and the cutting edge thickness being smaller than 1/5 of a milimeter, you get the kind of force that cuts tanks in half. now, i'd like you to present me a material, that's light enough to be used as a sword, and strong enough to be more cut resistant than several meters of armor specifically designed not to let things in. and not to be so thick that it would be basically a massive block of some steel that he wouldn't cut her apart with so much as basically turn her into a pancake. go ahead. i'll be waiting. at MHS/MHS+ speeds, it would evidently be enough to split a town in half.
so unless CH can pick up an average town and fight her with it, i can't see how CH wins.
Cheerios lads
HAHAHAHAHAHA. No. Going against anyone that knows which side of the sword is sharp and has one in his/her hands is suicidal for anyone who isn't specifically made to counter swords.
You vastly underestimate Akame. Esdeath fought with a massive advantage of knowing what to avoid+instant sword blocking with ice. Gensei is better maybe, sure, but Bulat isn't as good as Gensei. Kurome is worse than Akame in swordsmanship via drug, yes. It enhances her physical abilities, and therefore her SPEED, REFLEXES and REACTION TIME. Which katanas are basically made for. I never said she's the best, I just said she's among the top tier in the anime. Keep in mind that she beat someone who can literally look at least a few seconds into the future.
@Ringo, @Nico-v11
OP never stated CH gets any equipment. He can forge a sword, sure, but, speaking as an engineering student...
1) it would take a while even with the current technologies, to make a good blade with a good isometric structure, it takes time. he has the knowledge how to do it, sure, but if we're gonna be realistic, even if he had literally every machine available to him, it would take a few days.
2) the quality of the blade, even if CH had a few days of prep wouldn't be able enough to match an anime sword (see Akame vs Zank for that.)
3) coming from #2, 3rd problem is the fact that he'd have to use a shield (higher thickness to avoid being destroyed), which adds more prep time required. ignore the prep time, and you just slow CH down with the shield.
4) If we use the numbers people got for Akame's speed, mach 20 (what is severely underestimating her, because she is more or less equal to Tatsumi), add to that the mass of an average katana that's about 1300 grams, and the cutting edge thickness being smaller than 1/5 of a milimeter, you get the kind of force that cuts tanks in half. now, i'd like you to present me a material, that's light enough to be used as a sword, and strong enough to be more cut resistant than several meters of armor specifically designed not to let things in. and not to be so thick that it would be basically a massive block of some steel that he wouldn't cut her apart with so much as basically turn her into a pancake. go ahead. i'll be waiting. at MHS/MHS+ speeds, it would evidently be enough to split a town in half.
so unless CH can pick up an average town and fight her with it, i can't see how CH wins.
Cheerios lads
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Guess what, CH knows all about swords.
Akame knew all about Esdeath too you know, abilities with her ice, her reputation, they both had imperial arms. Besides, Esdeath was only half serious during the damn fight, and to top it all off, Akame had help from Mine at the arena and yet Esdeath was laughing it off.
Wait, so physical capabilities>Swordsmanship? Did I actually just read that?
Oh yeah, Akame got scratched by Zank, I forgot about that.
Akame knew all about Esdeath too you know, abilities with her ice, her reputation, they both had imperial arms. Besides, Esdeath was only half serious during the damn fight, and to top it all off, Akame had help from Mine at the arena and yet Esdeath was laughing it off.
Wait, so physical capabilities>Swordsmanship? Did I actually just read that?
Oh yeah, Akame got scratched by Zank, I forgot about that.
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@Thunderclap A person does not automatically win because he/she has a sword. Which is exactly what you are saying, besides I have no doubt in my mind that there was someone that was more skilled than Akame at some point in real life than Akame. Of course not with the same physical capabilities but definitely in the skill department.
Don't take this the wrong way but could we calm down a bit? It seems that this is getting a bit heated
Don't take this the wrong way but could we calm down a bit? It seems that this is getting a bit heated
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He knows all about real swords. Not about some supernatural cursed swords.Gargoyle 1 said:
I'm saying faster reaction times definitely win. I mean, if you put a human against an extremely buff snail, I think I know who'd win. Speed gives an immense advantage that people keep forgetting.
Oh yeah. Zank can literally see the future. And Akame still killed him, even tho he knew what she was about to do.
@Nico-v11
I never said that giving someone a sword would make someone win, I'm just saying that sword vs no sword isn't as fair as others think, no matter the skill. Disarming someone who has a small knife is hard, and all you have to do is stop their hands from moving. With swords, it's harder. She has the range advantage, and if CH wanted to disarm her, would be extremely risky. They're about as capable physically due to speed equalized, and CH has the martial arts experience advantage. But what I'm referring to isn't the skill required to fight, it's the skill required to counter a sword. And the materials. Let me put it into context. Have one person, decently skilled, with an extremely sharp sword, highly durable etc. And then, give the best martial artist that has ever existed a 2x4. The guy with the 2x4 will do well while he has the 2x4, but after the guy with the sword is done cutting it up, there's no way for the guy with the 2x4 to do anything. It's not about skill, it's about lacking counters. You can put up Simo Hayha with all the equipment he needs in the field, throw out a tank and Simo would still get ******* rekt. Tbh, putting a not-so-high tier character against CH with no equipment just doesn't seem like a good matchup if anything. On paper it seems fair, sure, but it's really not. Extreme changes with only small adjustments. CH would be able to kill her if he had same quality sword, if he had to craft it he'd lose most likely due to prep time required and material quality, if CH was unarmed he'd probably die too, if CH had any knowledge of Murasame's ability, he'd win most likely. But nothing was specifically given to CH. That's why, Akame.
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What does that change? There's no difference between the two other then the poison itself, it doesn't automatically mean you scratch them. If you let yourself get scratched while trying to disarm you have to improve
Faster reaction time beats swordsmanship skill? Why didn't Esdeath kill Akame ten times over? Akame's reaction speed isn't nearly as fast.
That doesn't automatically make openings you can exploit.
Thing is, you believe that the curse is going to automatically fix the fact that Akame can be disarmed,
Faster reaction time beats swordsmanship skill? Why didn't Esdeath kill Akame ten times over? Akame's reaction speed isn't nearly as fast.
That doesn't automatically make openings you can exploit.
Thing is, you believe that the curse is going to automatically fix the fact that Akame can be disarmed,
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If you ONLY get scratched when disarming (while having nothing in your own hands), holy shit you're among the masters. Esdeath didn't kill her because she's always looking for a fun fight. And you know it. Also, not just faster reaction fyi. Faster... everything. That's the whole point of the drug Kurome is using. You can't evade something you can't see. See the concept of blitzing for that. What's, again, the whole point of the drug. That's like the matrix bullet dodging bs.
Akame can be disarmed, with another sword of equal durability. Sadly, no such thing exists in the REAL world. Most disarming techniques involve being in an evenly matched fight in terms of equipment.
Akame can be disarmed, with another sword of equal durability. Sadly, no such thing exists in the REAL world. Most disarming techniques involve being in an evenly matched fight in terms of equipment.
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Well I mean, considering that he has the experience and skill of every single human that has ever existed, including one who fought three samurai at once without getting scratched, yes, he absolutely is THE master.
That's exactly what I mean, you said she was on par with Esdeath, which is far from the truth.
Why would CH need a sword to disarm someone? Esdeath didn't need a sword, nor did her Ice help in disarming her, so why not CH?
That's exactly what I mean, you said she was on par with Esdeath, which is far from the truth.
Why would CH need a sword to disarm someone? Esdeath didn't need a sword, nor did her Ice help in disarming her, so why not CH?
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@ThunderClap
Actually, there are plenty of martial arts styles that teach you how to defend against a sword. The thing is, there is none that guarantee your safety from a very small cut, especially from a skilled swordswoman like Akame.
Against a really unskilled swordsman? There are plenty of styles that teach you how to specifically disarm reasonably trained swordsmen. Slapping the blade, twisting the wrist with a sudden charge, getting way too close, I can name many of them. However, Akame's case is really different, in which she's more skilled than most swordsmen, and that a really small cut is enough to kill.
But seriously, we are talking about the Combined Human here. That includes the japanese combat master that reportedly disarmed one of, if not the most skilled swordsman in Japan at the time using a wooden lid, or something of the genre. As long as the CH can get their hands on something, especially something wooden, he has a decent chance of disarming Akame with the right technique.
Also, @Nico, you might want to give the CH something, or at least specify where they are fighting.
Actually, there are plenty of martial arts styles that teach you how to defend against a sword. The thing is, there is none that guarantee your safety from a very small cut, especially from a skilled swordswoman like Akame.
Against a really unskilled swordsman? There are plenty of styles that teach you how to specifically disarm reasonably trained swordsmen. Slapping the blade, twisting the wrist with a sudden charge, getting way too close, I can name many of them. However, Akame's case is really different, in which she's more skilled than most swordsmen, and that a really small cut is enough to kill.
But seriously, we are talking about the Combined Human here. That includes the japanese combat master that reportedly disarmed one of, if not the most skilled swordsman in Japan at the time using a wooden lid, or something of the genre. As long as the CH can get their hands on something, especially something wooden, he has a decent chance of disarming Akame with the right technique.
Also, @Nico, you might want to give the CH something, or at least specify where they are fighting.
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Hang on, can Akame even one shot CH? Shouldn't they have like, the combined poison resistance of every human ever?
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@Monarch
Not sure about "combined", but the "best" poison resistance is guaranteed.
Not sure about "combined", but the "best" poison resistance is guaranteed.
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I think the deciding factor here is whether or not CH has a weapon, or can quickly obtain one based on the setting. He's undoubtedly more skilled than Akame, and as has been covered above, he can disarm her easily, even with his bare hands. But if he is so much as scratched, he'll probably die. Having a weapon will give him the distance and defence he needs to avoid being scratched.
@EliminatorVenom - Composite human would have the best poison resistance of any human in history. Combined human would have the combined poison resistance of every human in history.
@EliminatorVenom - Composite human would have the best poison resistance of any human in history. Combined human would have the combined poison resistance of every human in history.
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Eliminator, you're my spirit animal
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Yeah. I never said that he couldn't disarm her at all, I just eliminated situations in which he'd get scratched. Poison resistance means nothing as it's really not poison but a supernatural curse. Giving him a weapon (of same durability) would definitely make the water flow his way, but that wasn't specified. That's why I said Akame. In a scenario where they fight 3 times, inconclusive. Akame wins if CH is unarmed, CH wins if he has same durability weapon, and 3rd situation is a stalemate if CH just avoids confronting her.Monarch Laciel said:
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Most of the situations you eliminated would have likely been useful for CH.
Plus, some of your claims point to you saying he can't. "If you can disarm without getting scratched HOLY SHIT you're among the masters" forgetting this is CH we're talking about, so naturally he is.
Plus, some of your claims point to you saying he can't. "If you can disarm without getting scratched HOLY SHIT you're among the masters" forgetting this is CH we're talking about, so naturally he is.
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@Laciel
True. IDK about Akame's poison being supernatural, though. If it is just really strong, the CH can probably shrug it off. If it is supernatural, the issue is still there.
@Nico
In a forest, I see the CH taking this fairly handily. Combining the abilities of several people who are masters in guerrila combat, who are used to live in forests and that often use the terrain to their advantage, will allow him to win kinda easily. In the Emipre, I can see the CH using objects around the arena, or the very terrain to slow Akame down and then beat her.
True. IDK about Akame's poison being supernatural, though. If it is just really strong, the CH can probably shrug it off. If it is supernatural, the issue is still there.
@Nico
In a forest, I see the CH taking this fairly handily. Combining the abilities of several people who are masters in guerrila combat, who are used to live in forests and that often use the terrain to their advantage, will allow him to win kinda easily. In the Emipre, I can see the CH using objects around the arena, or the very terrain to slow Akame down and then beat her.
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^I can see that happening. The problem is the starting distance. Because Nico didn't establish this, by Standard Battle Assumptions both CH and Akame have to fight at their best range, which is melee. If CH decides to temporarily retreat, he/she would need to make some distance between Akame and him/her. It is possible that he/she can make it because of that supergenius intelligence, but it is also possible that he/she might get scratched by Akame in the process.
This might be going more inconclusive.
This might be going more inconclusive.
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@Eclar
But if nothing is specified, I can also assume that the CH has access to all weapons ever used by mankind. And frankly, a wooden shield is enough to disarm Akame with the proper technique (In fact, that is the main reason why knights preferred wooden shields over metal ones, since they could disarm their foes by making their blades get stuck to them), and by giving the CH his other weapons, no matter the scenario, the fight will become almost one-sided.
But if nothing is specified, I can also assume that the CH has access to all weapons ever used by mankind. And frankly, a wooden shield is enough to disarm Akame with the proper technique (In fact, that is the main reason why knights preferred wooden shields over metal ones, since they could disarm their foes by making their blades get stuck to them), and by giving the CH his other weapons, no matter the scenario, the fight will become almost one-sided.
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I'd go for Akame due to her one shotting blade.
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You usually have to specify when someone gets something. Otherwise you could put CH against some Tier 6-A, give CH all the nukes the world has and then what? Inconsistency. About the wood shield, problem is, the sword wouldn't get stuck in it. As I said above, she has the potential to cut a tank in half, let alone a 2x4 plank lolEliminatorVenom said:
Again, I voted for Akame due to that exact reason.
Also, @Gargoyle
I don't think CH getting scratched by something that kills you if you get scratched is a good situation for CH lol.
CH wins with same durability weapon, stalemate if CH avoids fighting, Akame wins in basically every other situation. That's the thing about it. No amount of experience could make you do the impossible. On our Kyudo practices, we had a talk about one person who managed to deflect a blunted katana with his yugake. As the katana is a weapon most commonly used for vertical strikes, it wasn't hard to anticipate, but it was hard to do - basically as someone is swinging downwards, you set your hand so the sword hits your thumb, tho it requires an immense amount of skill. CH does have the skill to perhaps a sword swing from someone human, but at those speeds, the materials just can't take it. It's basically like a depleted uranium-diamond hybrid tank shell going at mach 1000+ lol. The forces that the sword translates onto the target are ridiculously immense and definitely not something any of the metals we know can take. At least not with relatively rational thickness.
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@ThunderClap
No, not really. Otherwise, whenever I make a Solid Snake or Steve fight, I'd need to list all weapons that he has, which is both time-consuming and unnecessary. It is quite the contrary: Unless outright stated so, all weapons at any character's disposal are usable.
And no, even if the CH had access to all nukes in mankind, he'd not use them, for the simple fact that said use would kill him. Even if he survived the initial blast, which is HIGHLY unlikely, he'd die due to radiation poisoning.
And assuming speed is equalized, it doesn't matter if the sword can cut through a tank. Yes, it will cut through the wooden shield, but as the blade cuts, the CH may twist the shield as the blade cuts through it, still disarming her.
No, not really. Otherwise, whenever I make a Solid Snake or Steve fight, I'd need to list all weapons that he has, which is both time-consuming and unnecessary. It is quite the contrary: Unless outright stated so, all weapons at any character's disposal are usable.
And no, even if the CH had access to all nukes in mankind, he'd not use them, for the simple fact that said use would kill him. Even if he survived the initial blast, which is HIGHLY unlikely, he'd die due to radiation poisoning.
And assuming speed is equalized, it doesn't matter if the sword can cut through a tank. Yes, it will cut through the wooden shield, but as the blade cuts, the CH may twist the shield as the blade cuts through it, still disarming her.
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I'll say inconclusive as well, could go either way
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