Ajimu 8-C is somewhat iffy

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Hello everyone in this thread, today I want to talk about Ajimu's Debunk to 8-C and honestly the arguments used are a "little" questionable, warning that I'm not a true connoisseur of the verse but I like researching characters in the sense of Power scaling because it's fun and I have a Web friend who defends the character who asked me to revert Debunk since she doesn't have I have a vs battle account and just because I really want to, I'm going to try to level up the character, it'll be fun!

On Ajimu Najimi's profile is the following description: "She was able to observe the creation of the universe but we do not know how close she was to the blast".*
>
> *This description alone would already rule out the probability of this scaling it to Universe level, better fitting to say that her Tier is Unknown.*

We can simply analyze the context of the scene, the scene is about Ajimu and how much she has lived, with the phrase "THE MEMORY OF ONE WHO LIVED TOO LONG...!!". Let's ignore the information that she saw the creation of the universe for now, let's move on to the following scenes. She observed the earth begin to exist, the first living being, the first humans, etc. Ok, the context is that she is there in person, as we see her see the creation of the earth in space, but from this we are shown a view of her on earth, as we can see this by the way the background with the blue sky is shown. , showing that she is no longer in space, so looking at what was shown, she demonstrates seeing such events personally and up close while the manga shows what she saw, be it the first human beings or the creation of the earth. So what is shown of her talking about seeing the creation of the universe is her seeing the beginning of the Big Bang, since if she were so far away that the energy of the big Bang could be equated to the 8-C level or similar, it would already be the expansion of the universe.. and not her creation, which would contradict the entire context that was shown of Ajimu's sentence and the context shown by the following scenes. We can say that it was at least close and tier 3-A would be guaranteed here.

Furthermore, in the description of the Big Bang wiki page it says: "Surviving a Low 2-C Big Bang isn't a Universe level+ feat in durability due to the non-physical nature of such an event. However, this ideally only applies to Big Bangs as natural events, instead of attacks with a destructive capacity independent of their size and tier."

That means a character can't scale with the Big Bang which was a natural event, right? Therefore, Ajimu Najimi would not be the exception to the rule.
With all this clarified, I suggest that it would be better to change her classification from "likely Universe level" to just Unknown.

This only applies to Big Bang Low 2-C where the creation of space and time is something metaphysical, which is not the case as Medaka box's Big Bang is 3-A and this was mentioned in Debunk and this is still accepted, being the problem that the distance was supposedly unknown, I don't even need to talk about this point but it's good to remember

Creating a supposed Big Bang that would create all the space of a universe or its space and time through a physical explosion is a 3-A feat, and grants Explosion Manipulation, limited Spatial Manipulation and limited Time Manipulation. Surviving such an event from its center or near it is a Universe level feat in durability, but like in all explosions, the further away one is from the center, the least of its power is withstood.

Now I want to talk about the skills that vs Battle disregards for somewhat meaningless reasons.

likely far higher (Stated to be able to "become god", "transcend dimensions", and "control infinity", among many other abilities, however the veracity of these claims is unknown)

Which honestly should be changed to "possibly Low 1-A" since we are talking about a possibility and the level of power to transcend dimensions is Low 1-A

But continuing... Here it talks about being possibly bigger, but it's a bit strange to say that they have an unknown veracity. In the scans themselves, Ajimu shows herself using some of the skills she describes, we see her using lightning and one of the skills she mentions in the Scan is precisely the ability to use lightning, in another, she mentions an ability to transform into a monster and on the page itself she is like a monster, this happens with all the scans she describes her abilities with her demonstrating one of the skills she mentions. Furthermore, there is a clear relationship between the skills she mentions and the ones she demonstrates, for example, he mentions being able to control her speed and strength and in the work he demonstrates this as her being able to use skills that are multipliers that multiply a characteristic, like magic. or sword skills, showing that the skills she cites are related to. you literally left bone manipulation via one of these scenes but want to disregard other information given on the same page just because.

Also, things seem to be missing from his profile that would be interesting to add, let's start with Plot Manipulation Hax, Ajimu can clearly change the theme of the work or even change the protagonist, like, This is literally mentioned as one of the phrases of the character on the vs Battle page. And the work, as already mentioned on Medaka's page, is a metafictional parody manga, literally Medaka is just not considered universal thanks to this, so there is no reason to say that Ajimu is not being literal here. She is also spoken of as being fair to the plot. Ajimu is actually called Ashin'in San, and the interesting thing is that the name of the creator of the work is Ishin, Ajimu's name being just the feminine version of his name and in addition she is spoken with more authority than the author, Ajimu I planned to transform the fighting manga into a romantic comedy manga.

We can also mention that Hanten Shiranui, who is Ajimu's partner, can grant plot manipulation to Zenkichi

Ajimu is shown as superior to the verse several times, first she is clearly shown to be holding back for the good of the work, such as turning off her omniscience to be fair to the work, Ajimu also lets herself be affected by other characters, such as Kamugawa saying who only managed to seal Ajimu because she let him seal him, yes he may have even managed to seal an exact copy of her, but Ajimu is fair to the script and if he were to actually manage to seal her, Ajimu wouldn't need to let him seal her in the first place, since he would hypothetically have the capacity to do so. Ajimu is tough that she would survive Hanten in all probability. Hanten also states that Ajimu is unique and that his ability to create ability is nothing but a shadow to hers and the possibility is said that he was apparently sealed but came out on his own, so him being inferior to Ajimu would also prove her to be above the seal and be left sealed of its own accord.

Ajimu is also called Omnipotent, all-powerful or even the Transcendental character, being very consistent with her having the greatest feats and quotes in the work, having a huge gap between the other characters and her, with her doing whatever she wants in the plot and limiting herself on purpose for the good of the work, even on the character's page in this Wiki she is accepted as the strongest in the verse.

As I have already shown to Scan, Ajimu is said to be the type of character who is above the author, making his statements super valid, with everything that has been elaborated it is safe to say that there is no reason to doubt the veracity of Ajimu's abilities or his superiority. insane above the other characters, we have no reason to limit her to the same level as the others, so her description of her abilities are 100% valid, due to her ability to Transcend Dimensions, she could be placed with the Low 1-A tier since quotes like that even without much context would put it in this tier.

Ajimu goes from one dimension to another, as mentioned in Hanten's Profile, which if we consult the range system, reaching interdimensional is above High 3-A, so Ajimu's feat would be infinite speed.

Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that can't travel a universal distance, can't affect multiple of these other realities at the same time, and can't reach into other multiverses or higher constructs.

Ajimu went beyond the space and time of the universe to go to another, so infinite speed as I said.

In short, remove Debunk 3-A, make Ajimu's abilities completely valid, add immeasurable speed to Ajimu since he could reach a Low 1-A level of existence and add Ajimu's haxs to his skill list and Plot manipulation together and infinite speed if correct.

Well, most of the scans and the reason I'm here are from my web friend who I mentioned, so credits to ajimuOFC.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Hello everyone in this thread, today I want to talk about Ajimu's Debunk to 8-C and honestly the arguments used are a "little" questionable, warning that I'm not a true connoisseur of the verse but I like researching characters in the sense of Power scaling because it's fun and I have a Web friend who defends the character who asked me to revert Debunk since she doesn't have I have a vs battle account and just because I really want to, I'm going to try to level up the character, it'll be fun!

On Ajimu Najimi's profile is the following description: "She was able to observe the creation of the universe but we do not know how close she was to the blast".*
>
> *This description alone would already rule out the probability of this scaling it to Universe level, better fitting to say that her Tier is Unknown.*

We can simply analyze the context of the scene, the scene is about Ajimu and how much she has lived, with the phrase "THE MEMORY OF ONE WHO LIVED TOO LONG...!!". Let's ignore the information that she saw the creation of the universe for now, let's move on to the following scenes. She observed the earth begin to exist, the first living being, the first humans, etc. Ok, the context is that she is there in person, as we see her see the creation of the earth in space, but from this we are shown a view of her on earth, as we can see this by the way the background with the blue sky is shown. , showing that she is no longer in space, so looking at what was shown, she demonstrates seeing such events personally and up close while the manga shows what she saw, be it the first human beings or the creation of the earth. So what is shown of her talking about seeing the creation of the universe is her seeing the beginning of the Big Bang, since if she were so far away that the energy of the big Bang could be equated to the 8-C level or similar, it would already be the expansion of the universe.. and not her creation, which would contradict the entire context that was shown of Ajimu's sentence and the context shown by the following scenes. We can say that it was at least close and tier 3-A would be guaranteed here.

Furthermore, in the description of the Big Bang wiki page it says: "Surviving a Low 2-C Big Bang isn't a Universe level+ feat in durability due to the non-physical nature of such an event. However, this ideally only applies to Big Bangs as natural events, instead of attacks with a destructive capacity independent of their size and tier."

That means a character can't scale with the Big Bang which was a natural event, right? Therefore, Ajimu Najimi would not be the exception to the rule.
With all this clarified, I suggest that it would be better to change her classification from "likely Universe level" to just Unknown.

This only applies to Big Bang Low 2-C where the creation of space and time is something metaphysical, which is not the case as Medaka box's Big Bang is 3-A and this was mentioned in Debunk and this is still accepted, being the problem that the distance was supposedly unknown, I don't even need to talk about this point but it's good to remember

Creating a supposed Big Bang that would create all the space of a universe or its space and time through a physical explosion is a 3-A feat, and grants Explosion Manipulation, limited Spatial Manipulation and limited Time Manipulation. Surviving such an event from its center or near it is a Universe level feat in durability, but like in all explosions, the further away one is from the center, the least of its power is withstood.

Now I want to talk about the skills that vs Battle disregards for somewhat meaningless reasons.

likely far higher (Stated to be able to "become god", "transcend dimensions", and "control infinity", among many other abilities, however the veracity of these claims is unknown)

Which honestly should be changed to "possibly Low 1-A" since we are talking about a possibility and the level of power to transcend dimensions is Low 1-A

But continuing... Here it talks about being possibly bigger, but it's a bit strange to say that they have an unknown veracity. In the scans themselves, Ajimu shows herself using some of the skills she describes, we see her using lightning and one of the skills she mentions in the Scan is precisely the ability to use lightning, in another, she mentions an ability to transform into a monster and on the page itself she is like a monster, this happens with all the scans she describes her abilities with her demonstrating one of the skills she mentions. Furthermore, there is a clear relationship between the skills she mentions and the ones she demonstrates, for example, he mentions being able to control her speed and strength and in the work he demonstrates this as her being able to use skills that are multipliers that multiply a characteristic, like magic. or sword skills, showing that the skills she cites are related to. you literally left bone manipulation via one of these scenes but want to disregard other information given on the same page just because.

Also, things seem to be missing from his profile that would be interesting to add, let's start with Plot Manipulation Hax, Ajimu can clearly change the theme of the work or even change the protagonist, like, This is literally mentioned as one of the phrases of the character on the vs Battle page. And the work, as already mentioned on Medaka's page, is a metafictional parody manga, literally Medaka is just not considered universal thanks to this, so there is no reason to say that Ajimu is not being literal here. She is also spoken of as being fair to the plot. Ajimu is actually called Ashin'in San, and the interesting thing is that the name of the creator of the work is Ishin, Ajimu's name being just the feminine version of his name and in addition she is spoken with more authority than the author, Ajimu I planned to transform the fighting manga into a romantic comedy manga.

We can also mention that Hanten Shiranui, who is Ajimu's partner, can grant plot manipulation to Zenkichi

Ajimu is shown as superior to the verse several times, first she is clearly shown to be holding back for the good of the work, such as turning off her omniscience to be fair to the work, Ajimu also lets herself be affected by other characters, such as Kamugawa saying who only managed to seal Ajimu because she let him seal him, yes he may have even managed to seal an exact copy of her, but Ajimu is fair to the script and if he were to actually manage to seal her, Ajimu wouldn't need to let him seal her in the first place, since he would hypothetically have the capacity to do so. Ajimu is tough that she would survive Hanten in all probability. Hanten also states that Ajimu is unique and that his ability to create ability is nothing but a shadow to hers and the possibility is said that he was apparently sealed but came out on his own, so him being inferior to Ajimu would also prove her to be above the seal and be left sealed of its own accord.

Ajimu is also called Omnipotent, all-powerful or even the Transcendental character, being very consistent with her having the greatest feats and quotes in the work, having a huge gap between the other characters and her, with her doing whatever she wants in the plot and limiting herself on purpose for the good of the work, even on the character's page in this Wiki she is accepted as the strongest in the verse.

As I have already shown to Scan, Ajimu is said to be the type of character who is above the author, making his statements super valid, with everything that has been elaborated it is safe to say that there is no reason to doubt the veracity of Ajimu's abilities or his superiority. insane above the other characters, we have no reason to limit her to the same level as the others, so her description of her abilities are 100% valid, due to her ability to Transcend Dimensions, she could be placed with the Low 1-A tier since quotes like that even without much context would put it in this tier.

Ajimu goes from one dimension to another, as mentioned in Hanten's Profile, which if we consult the range system, reaching interdimensional is above High 3-A, so Ajimu's feat would be infinite speed.

Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that can't travel a universal distance, can't affect multiple of these other realities at the same time, and can't reach into other multiverses or higher constructs.

Ajimu went beyond the space and time of the universe to go to another, so infinite speed as I said.

In short, remove Debunk 3-A, make Ajimu's abilities completely valid, add immeasurable speed to Ajimu since he could reach a Low 1-A level of existence and add Ajimu's haxs to his skill list and Plot manipulation together and infinite speed if correct.

Well, most of the scans and the reason I'm here are from my web friend who I mentioned, so credits to ajimuOFC.

I agree with 3-A but I disagree with Low 1-A, we don't even know how the transcend dimension skill even works nor the nature of these dimensions

I also disagree with the speed upgrade because range doesnt always means speed

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

I agree with 3-A but I disagree with Low 1-A, we don't even know how the transcend dimension skill even works nor the nature of these dimensions

I also disagree with the speed upgrade because range doesnt always means speed

Well, the problem that the profile cites is exclusively that his Hax has an unknown veracity, in any case it should at least be listed as a possibility because even without context transcending is Low 1-A, after all transcending Dimensions is talking exclusively about being able to be above of the dimensions being a hax that would increase its existence, so it has to be at that level in hax at least, if your problem is the context use "possibly" or "probably" Low 1-A could be used

The speedway is not about range, it is about traveling an interdimensional distance.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

I agree with 3-A but I disagree with Low 1-A, we don't even know how the transcend dimension skill even works nor the nature of these dimensions

I also disagree with the speed upgrade because range doesnt always means speed

By the way, do you agree with the haxs update?

 

[Bernkastelll]

even without context transcending is Low 1-A

Without context transcendind anything means nothing

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Without context transcendind anything means nothing

My point is that it doesn't require super context for this hax to be Low 1-A, I think what you said is fair, but in the skills Ajimu makes a separation of dimension and universe for example, she can create universes while being able to manipulate the strings of string theory and control infinities. But if it still doesn't seem good enough to you, "Possibly" or "Probably" could be used, as this is a real possibility regarding the character's tier.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Without context transcendind anything means nothing

and you still haven't answered my question about haxs or that what is increasing speed is not that it has interdimensional range but that it has covered an interdimensional distance, it would be great if you answered about that

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

How long does it take for more people to show up, aaa

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Bump

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

(I think that's what it says)

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Is it every hour that you can talk bump?

 

[Dragonite007]

Is it every hour that you can talk bump?

Every 8/12 hours

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Every 8/12 hours

ok, opinion on the topic?

 

[TheShape03]

Is it every hour that you can talk bump?

Every 8 hours iirc. If you're impatient, you can try contacting the verse supporters through their message walls to ask them to take a look at this thread.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Every 8 hours iirc. If you're impatient, you can try contacting the verse supporters through their message walls to ask them to take a look at this thread.

wait, anyway it's just a matter of time

 

[RigelBR7]

"transcending dimensions" is not sufficient evidence for 1-A. It is nothing more than a quote that references that she is still stuck in the concept of quantifiable and quantitative dimensions.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

"transcending dimensions" is not sufficient evidence for 1-A. It is nothing more than a quote that references that she is still stuck in the concept of quantifiable and quantitative dimensions.

I know it's not 1-A, that's why I said it was Low 1-A, if at any point I said 1-A it was my mistake when typing.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

"transcending dimensions" is not sufficient evidence for 1-A. It is nothing more than a quote that references that she is still stuck in the concept of quantifiable and quantitative dimensions.

And as I said and showed, the current system literally accepts quotes like Transcending Dimensions as Low 1-A even without much context.

 

[Agnaa]

Quick response since I don't have too much time.

1. It's not that she'd definitely be at 8-B due to her distance, it's that we don't know her distance so we can't place something exact. I think it could feasibly be, like, anything tier 4 and above. We don't have a concrete tier to circle around for it, so we end up just saying higher.
2. The debunk wasn't accepted due to the Low 2-C big bang claim, as one could tell by reading to the end of the thread.
3. Her "transcend dimensions" statement is way too unreliable for even possibly Low 1-A. Most importantly, it's one of her wall of text skills, which I'll post a debunk of below. This will show that we're not disregarding them "just because".
4. That skill isn't multiplying her strength, it's literally just her counting how many skills she used.
5. That's not direct plot hax, it's causing events to happen which line up with a different genre.
6. Ajimu's name isn't the feminine name of Nisio lmao, the kanji are completely different; hers is 安心院 なじみ, his is 西尾 維新.
7. idk what you mean by being spoken of as having more authority than the author, since that scan's not translated.
8. She isn't superior to the work. iirc Ajimu only let herself be sealed briefly after most of the Bookmaker screws wore off. She can't beat Medaka or Iihiko.
9. Characters can be superior in some ways and inferior in others, so I'd be careful with the Ajimu/Hanten comparison.
10. "Ajimu goes from one dimension to another, as mentioned in Hanten's Profile" where are you seeing this, sorry?
11. "reaching interdimensional is above High 3-A, so Ajimu's feat would be infinite speed." this is wrong, we have careful rules about travelling between universes, it doesn't just auto-grant infinite speed.

In no particular order....

1. We're only told what type of skills they are. We know nothing about any limitations, requirements, ranges, speeds, how strong they are, etc. Which makes actually applying them in a fight really weird.
2. Some of the skills would leave her dead, like Death Mes (Seppuku skill), Beautiful Last Scene (Self-destruct skill), Last Murder (Both sides kill each other skill), and Sailor Same (Taking the same damage as the target skill), yet we don't see that happen. Although the last wall of the first six has a revive skill, which may mitigate this issue.
3. One of the skills would leave everyone around her dead; Deathst Moment (If you are seen they die skill), yet we don't see that happen.
4. For the few skills where we do get more information, the skill descriptions taken at face value become really wack, or even outright contradictory.
   • We eventually see Sword Looks (Sword purification skill) in the GLK novels, and it just lets her create a sword; seemingly having nothing to do with purification.
   • Later in the manga we see Unskilled (Don't use skills skill), and we learn it nullifies and blocks the user's skills for three minutes; we don't learn any of that from the description. To make things worse, she uses Unskilled in one of the walls of text, and then immediately goes on to use another skill - it's just completely contradicted.
   • Repeater Kitsch (Revival skill), actually contradicts info we learn in the GLK novels. Ajimu says there that reviving is impossible with a Skill, and that All Fiction cheats to make that possible. While Five Forks, the disease granting/removing skill, has been used to revive people, that could also be argued to be a cheat; just having a straight up revival skill exist seems fairly contradictory.
5. A bunch of other skills mentioned in the walls of text have very visual implications, but we see almost none of them. For a short list, there's "Create a maze", "Summon shrine", "Build a base", "Summon a person of great importance", "Create a universe", "Lay eggs", "Become big-breasted", "Make a backup", "Summon Hell", "Create webbing", "Grow fins", "Grow a beak", "Grow spines", "Grow needles", "Go underground", "Make fingers sickle-shaped", "Turn into a fossil". It's really hard to square the idea that she's using these abilities, and they do what they sound like they would, with there being absolutely no visual representation of the vast majority of them.

The only skills from those walls I accept are the 3 or 4 that appear visually (using magic, turning into a beast, creating chains, off the top of my head), and the ones that are further explained later.

EDIT: Another noteworthy issue with the "transcend dimensions" thing is that the word used for "transcend" (越える) doesn't really mean that, its two definitions are "to be more than" (i.e. "my grandmother is more than 60 years old" and "there are more than 10 humans on Earth"), and "to go over" (i.e. "a dog went over the fence", "the water ran over the river bank"). I guess I can see a similarity, but it's not "transcend" in the way we use it in English. Because of this, I think the Medaka Box wiki now translates that as "cross dimensions skill".

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Unlimited Corrections (無限修正 [ウンリミテド コッレクチオンズ] , Unrimitedo korrekutionzu): Literally never stop having content revisions skill.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Quick response since I don't have too much time.

1. It's not that she'd definitely be at 8-B due to her distance, it's that we don't know her distance so we can't place something exact. I think it could feasibly be, like, anything tier 4 and above. We don't have a concrete tier to circle around for it, so we end up just saying higher.
2. The debunk wasn't accepted due to the Low 2-C big bang claim, as one could tell by reading to the end of the thread.
3. Her "transcend dimensions" statement is way too unreliable for even possibly Low 1-A. Most importantly, it's one of her wall of text skills, which I'll post a debunk of below. This will show that we're not disregarding them "just because".
4. That skill isn't multiplying her strength, it's literally just her counting how many skills she used.
5. That's not direct plot hax, it's causing events to happen which line up with a different genre.
6. Ajimu's name isn't the feminine name of Nisio lmao, the kanji are completely different; hers is 安心院 なじみ, his is 西尾 維新.
7. idk what you mean by being spoken of as having more authority than the author, since that scan's not translated.
8. She isn't superior to the work. iirc Ajimu only let herself be sealed briefly after most of the Bookmaker screws wore off. She can't beat Medaka or Iihiko.
9. Characters can be superior in some ways and inferior in others, so I'd be careful with the Ajimu/Hanten comparison.
10. "Ajimu goes from one dimension to another, as mentioned in Hanten's Profile" where are you seeing this, sorry?
11. "reaching interdimensional is above High 3-A, so Ajimu's feat would be infinite speed." this is wrong, we have careful rules about travelling between universes, it doesn't just auto-grant infinite speed.

EDIT: Another noteworthy issue with the "transcend dimensions" thing is that the word used for "transcend" (越える) doesn't really mean that, its two definitions are "to be more than" (i.e. "my grandmother is more than 60 years old" and "there are more than 10 humans on Earth"), and "to go over" (i.e. "a dog went over the fence", "the water ran over the river bank"). I guess I can see a similarity, but it's not "transcend" in the way we use it in English. Because of this, I think the Medaka Box wiki now translates that as "cross dimensions skill".

I'm out of the house, when I get back I'll answer this.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Quick response since I don't have too much time.

1. It's not that she'd definitely be at 8-B due to her distance, it's that we don't know her distance so we can't place something exact. I think it could feasibly be, like, anything tier 4 and above. We don't have a concrete tier to circle around for it, so we end up just saying higher.
2. The debunk wasn't accepted due to the Low 2-C big bang claim, as one could tell by reading to the end of the thread.
3. Her "transcend dimensions" statement is way too unreliable for even possibly Low 1-A. Most importantly, it's one of her wall of text skills, which I'll post a debunk of below. This will show that we're not disregarding them "just because".
4. That skill isn't multiplying her strength, it's literally just her counting how many skills she used.
5. That's not direct plot hax, it's causing events to happen which line up with a different genre.
6. Ajimu's name isn't the feminine name of Nisio lmao, the kanji are completely different; hers is 安心院 なじみ, his is 西尾 維新.
7. idk what you mean by being spoken of as having more authority than the author, since that scan's not translated.
8. She isn't superior to the work. iirc Ajimu only let herself be sealed briefly after most of the Bookmaker screws wore off. She can't beat Medaka or Iihiko.
9. Characters can be superior in some ways and inferior in others, so I'd be careful with the Ajimu/Hanten comparison.
10. "Ajimu goes from one dimension to another, as mentioned in Hanten's Profile" where are you seeing this, sorry?
11. "reaching interdimensional is above High 3-A, so Ajimu's feat would be infinite speed." this is wrong, we have careful rules about travelling between universes, it doesn't just auto-grant infinite speed.

EDIT: Another noteworthy issue with the "transcend dimensions" thing is that the word used for "transcend" (越える) doesn't really mean that, its two definitions are "to be more than" (i.e. "my grandmother is more than 60 years old" and "there are more than 10 humans on Earth"), and "to go over" (i.e. "a dog went over the fence", "the water ran over the river bank"). I guess I can see a similarity, but it's not "transcend" in the way we use it in English. Because of this, I think the Medaka Box wiki now translates that as "cross dimensions skill".

1⁰ This ends up being an Argumentum ad nauseum, you ignore all my elaboration on the context given on the entire page and that they were close at all times shown to say the argument that until you prove that it is correct and my elaboration is wrong, it will be Argumentum ad nauseum Whether you like it or not, now talking about how you would have to refute it, first you would have to prove that this specific scene is an atypical case in relation to the contexts of the others where she was close, following everything closely and I also have to remember the reason If it were far enough away for the explosion to be below 3-A, it would already be expansion and would be inconsistent with what is said to be her seeing the Birth of the universe. And once again, being in the center or close to the explosion you would already be 3-A.
2⁰ A completely irrelevant point and you didn't read a specific part, in which I say that this was refuted in the article itself but that it was good to remember.

3⁰ No no, I can guarantee you that it's not, this phrase, even without context, I would classify it as Low 1-A even without context, it is literally in the photo that I'm linking to both in the tier system if you wanted to look Okay, let's see about her skills cannot be considered.

(The next points will be about Ajimu's skills not being valid)

Please show Ajimu ever needed requirements to be able to use his skills, this is the only valid point I found, the rest are very weak.

Speed: Come on, it would literally scale her attack speed and most of them don't even appear to be a skill that travels from Point A to B, for example, at least show a reason for that my friend.

Range: You yourself set it as Varia, if you want to set it as a few meters for example, even fair, wanting not to set it just because you don't have this information is stupid.

Limitations: The Tier above the character or a certain skill, such as creating a universe that would be a 3-A skill by default on the back.

About point 2

'Some of the skills would leave her dead, such as Death Mes (Seppuku skill), Beautiful Last Scene (self-destruct skill), Last Murder (ability for both sides to kill each other) and Sailor Same (ability to take the same damage as the target) , but we don't see that happening. Although the last wall of the first six has a revive ability, which can mitigate this issue.'
None of these would actually kill her, only a Seppuku would not kill her, the self-destruction could very well be below the level of Ajimu or she, who was resistant enough to not have died or been really injured, both sides maintaining themselves could very well not have happened. right because they both failed to kill themselves, for example. Furthermore, you yourselves cite the solution to the problem, citing the ability to revive.

About the third point.

'One of the skills would leave everyone around you dead; Moment of Death (ability that causes everyone to die if you are seen), but we don't see it happen.'

Two interpretations about the ability, the 'you' could be them or Ajimu, both cases are very simple to solve, if the 'you' is Ajimu then they would just not look, if it would be them then they would just hide, Ajimu was he was probably having fun so he probably let them hide.
The mini points of the 4th point

'We finally see Sword Looks (sword purification skill) in the GLK novels, and it just lets her create a sword; apparently it has nothing to do with purification.'

'Sword purification' is very open to interpretation, it could very well be a purified sword or something else, there's no way to tell this just visually, it's a somewhat weak point.

'Later in the manga we see Unskilled (Don't use skills), and we learn that it nullifies and blocks the user's skills for three minutes; we don't learn any of this in the description. To make matters worse, she uses Unskilled on one of the walls of text, and then immediately switches to using another skill - it's completely contradictory.'

We're not seeing the fight, we're only seeing what skills she used in the fight because of the skills being listed in the background, we don't have the time she used it or how she fought, so that point is irrelevant, prove she used one then the other.

Repeater Kitsch (Revivification skill), actually contradicts information we learned in GLK's novels. Ajimu says there that reviving is impossible with a Skill, and that All Fiction cheats to make it possible. While Five Forks, the disease-granting/removing ability, has been used to revive people, this can also be considered cheating; just having a direct revival ability seems quite contradictory.

If All fiction can do this by cheating, Ajimu could do the same with a similar skill.

Ok, with that we finish point 4 of your refutation and what would prove the skills to be invalid, so we can say that Ajimu is indeed Low 1-A.

'Several other abilities mentioned in the walls of text have very visual implications, but we see almost none of them. For a short list, there are 'Create a labyrinth', 'Summon shrine', 'Build a base', 'Summon a person of great importance', 'Create a universe', 'Lay eggs', 'Become busty', 'Make a Backup', 'Summon Hell', 'Create Webs', 'Create Fins', 'Create a Beak', 'Create Spikes', 'Create Needles', 'Go Underground', 'Make Shaped Fingers with a scythe', 'Turn into a fossil'. It's really hard to reconcile the idea that she's using these abilities, and they do what they look like they would do, with there being absolutely no visual representation of the vast majority of them.'

Prove that she used them all at the same time, even Debunk says that she used one and then the other, he is being contradictory and there is still the problem about not mentioning that he did not show proof that she did all of this at the same time.

Ok, with that we finish point 4 of your refutation and which would prove the skills are invalid, Low 1-A is valid.

5⁰ Well, I actually read the page wrong, my mistake :3

6⁰ This would not be possible, the plot is above, the verse works as a metafictional parody and even being a protagonist is a power here, Medaka creating a universe is not considered at this level precisely for this reason, so there is no reason to consider that Ajimu does not I would do this with plot manipulation since his partner is capable of granting a plot manipulation ability (I showed in the elaboration of the topic).

7⁰ We are not talking about the name Ajimu, but the real one which is Anshin'in which is related to the name Nisio >Isin<

8⁰ Better now?

9⁰ Ajimu let herself be sealed and was having so much fun that she could leave whenever she wanted, said by Kamugawa. Unfortunately I didn't find the chapter to scan in English, I only have the Portuguese version and translated it into English, if anyone knows which chapter it was it would be great.

Ajimu najimi is the character's name but the real one is Anshin'in san which is why she represents herself as a writer, and this is a detail from the author himself to show her as his personification and therefore would justify her manipulation of the plot, and the fact that medaka and ihiiko are not superior neither by deeds nor by quotes but by protagonism, but you can use ajimu's scan that proves that ajimu can kill protagonists, this one

And here, ihiiko himself realizing that ajimu losing was ajimu's plan

And zenkichi beat ihiiko with ajimu's devil-style ability, which ajinu could also use, in the work there is nothing to indicate that ajimu is inferior to them, in vsb herself demonstrates this by agreeing that she is the strongest and that she is limited in the plot, [plus ihiiko and a reserve body from ajimu[/URL] as well as hanten shiranui, so it's kind of irrelevant since ajinu only manifests itself through avatars


And another proof is ajimu talking to zenkichi after the lasso attack, which shows that she was never really affected
10⁰ You only attack a small part of the elaboration and that's it, I mentioned this in the middle of several statements about Ajimu being above the others, my showing this Scan is just to further support the concrete with her being above the other characters.

11⁰ Well, you can understand that here.

"While he's seemingly capable of following Ajimu everywhere she goes, we only see him follow her to the dream world in the anime original episode, and it's unclear how quickly Ajimu was moving around in reality"
That's what I interpreted.

"reaching the interdimensional is above High 3-A, so Ajimu's feat would be infinite speed." This is wrong, we have careful rules about traveling between universes, it doesn't automatically guarantee infinite speed.

Fair

"EDIT: Another notable problem with the "transcending dimensions" thing is that the word used for "transcend" (越える) doesn't actually mean that, its two definitions are "to be more than" (i.e. "my grandmother is more than 60 years" and "there are more than 10 humans on Earth") and "go over" (i.e. "a dog jumped the fence", "the water ran over the river bank"). I think I can see a similarity, but it's not "transcend" in the way we use it in English. Because of this, I think the Medaka Box wiki now translates this as "ability to cross dimensions"."

超える in Japanese means [things like "exceed", "go beyond" or "exceed". It's more likely to be about transcending and the word transcend in Ajimu's painting, even if it doesn't seem good enough to you, it could be put as "possibly" or "probably" since even if you don't agree it would still be a real possibility .

 

[Agnaa]

1⁰ This ends up being an Argumentum ad nauseum, you ignore all my elaboration on the context given on the entire page and that they were close at all times shown to say the argument that until you prove that it is correct and my elaboration is wrong, it will be Argumentum ad nauseum Whether you like it or not

That's not what that fallacy is.

now talking about how you would have to refute it, first you would have to prove that this specific scene is an atypical case in relation to the contexts of the others where she was close, following everything closely and I also have to remember the reason If it were far enough away for the explosion to be below 3-A, it would already be expansion and would be inconsistent with what is said to be her seeing the Birth of the universe.
And once again, being in the center or close to the explosion you would already be 3-A.

No, it'd need to be almost dead-on for that. If she was even a few meters away it would drop to high-end 3-B. One light year away would be 4-A. I don't think it's implausible given the image shown that she would be that far away, assuming it's meant to be her PoV. The universe had a radius of about 10 light years after one second, I think it's pretty easy to call that sort of timeframe the "birth".

3⁰ No no, I can guarantee you that it's not, this phrase, even without context, I would classify it as Low 1-A even without context, it is literally in the photo that I'm linking to both in the tier system if you wanted to look Okay, let's see about her skills cannot be considered.

I am almost certain that it wouldn't, but I guess we can wait for Ultima for that.

Really, that's the only notable new point being brought up. Considering the Discussion Rule against changing Ajimu's tier without new arguments, this thread would be closeable without the saving grace of the tiering system changes.

@Antvasima @DontTalkDT How much leeway do you think I should be giving here?

Please show Ajimu ever needed requirements to be able to use his skills, this is the only valid point I found, the rest are very weak.

Easy.

• Lip Service requires her to kiss someone.
• Five Focus requires her to scratch someone.
• Door to Door requires her to kiss someone.
• Unskilled only lasts for three minutes.

Speed: Come on, it would literally scale her attack speed and most of them don't even appear to be a skill that travels from Point A to B, for example, at least show a reason for that my friend.

I disagree. There's no universal energy system underlying different abilities in Medaka Box. They can function very differently from each other.

About the third point.

'One of the skills would leave everyone around you dead; Moment of Death (ability that causes everyone to die if you are seen), but we don't see it happen.'

Two interpretations about the ability, the 'you' could be them or Ajimu, both cases are very simple to solve, if the 'you' is Ajimu then they would just not look, if it would be them then they would just hide, Ajimu was he was probably having fun so he probably let them hide.

We know that they were looking, all of them (except for maybe Hanten) were watching, and were intimidated by it.

The mini points of the 4th point

'We finally see Sword Looks (sword purification skill) in the GLK novels, and it just lets her create a sword; apparently it has nothing to do with purification.'

'Sword purification' is very open to interpretation, it could very well be a purified sword or something else, there's no way to tell this just visually, it's a somewhat weak point.

There's nothing in the text of the GLK novels implying that they're purified. I think it's an important point that its actual use seems to have almost nothing to do with the description.

'Later in the manga we see Unskilled (Don't use skills), and we learn that it nullifies and blocks the user's skills for three minutes; we don't learn any of this in the description. To make matters worse, she uses Unskilled on one of the walls of text, and then immediately switches to using another skill - it's completely contradictory.'

We're not seeing the fight, we're only seeing what skills she used in the fight because of the skills being listed in the background, we don't have the time she used it or how she fought, so that point is irrelevant, prove she used one then the other.

Because they occur on two subsequent pages; the first page there has Unskilled listed at the bottom. And on the next page she says that Count Up is the last skill she uses, so it has to be after the rest.

'Several other abilities mentioned in the walls of text have very visual implications, but we see almost none of them. For a short list, there are 'Create a labyrinth', 'Summon shrine', 'Build a base', 'Summon a person of great importance', 'Create a universe', 'Lay eggs', 'Become busty', 'Make a Backup', 'Summon Hell', 'Create Webs', 'Create Fins', 'Create a Beak', 'Create Spikes', 'Create Needles', 'Go Underground', 'Make Shaped Fingers with a scythe', 'Turn into a fossil'. It's really hard to reconcile the idea that she's using these abilities, and they do what they look like they would do, with there being absolutely no visual representation of the vast majority of them.'

Prove that she used them all at the same time, even Debunk says that she used one and then the other, he is being contradictory and there is still the problem about not mentioning that he did not show proof that she did all of this at the same time.

Even if she used them one after another, they sure seem like the sorts of things that would be visible.

6⁰ This would not be possible, the plot is above, the verse works as a metafictional parody and even being a protagonist is a power here, Medaka creating a universe is not considered at this level precisely for this reason, so there is no reason to consider that Ajimu does not I would do this with plot manipulation since his partner is capable of granting a plot manipulation ability (I showed in the elaboration of the topic).

You cannot simultaneously say "Her being Low 1-A is supported by her being above the rest of the cast" and "Some characters are above her, but they just scale". By acknowledging the latter you have to lose the former.

7⁰ We are not talking about the name Ajimu, but the real one which is Anshin'in which is related to the name Nisio >Isin<

It isn't. They're both spelled the same way, and are just different readings of the same word. They're not related; Anshin'in is invoked to compare to the common word "anshin", use to mean like "feel at ease", "don't worry", etc.

8⁰ Better now?

No. We don't use MTL since it often makes relevant mistakes.

And I'd just generally be careful with this sort of thing, since the author often talks about characters in similar ways despite a total lack of meta powers. iirc there's statements about Zaregoto's characters pushing it to be more of a fighting-oriented series (here, question 26). And statements about Monogatari's characters changing the author's direction of the story (in the afterwords for Ougimono and Shinobumono iirc, in the first chapter of Shinomono 2, probably in some other places too).

It's just an evocative way of talking about the story-writing process, not a specific ability of Ajimu's, I think.

9⁰ Ajimu let herself be sealed and was having so much fun that she could leave whenever she wanted, said by Kamugawa. Unfortunately I didn't find the chapter to scan in English, I only have the Portuguese version and translated it into English, if anyone knows which chapter it was it would be great.

That's about her being sealed by Momo Momozono, a statement from chapter 152, a completely different case from Kumagawa sealing Ajimu.

In fact, near that statement we have this statement from Kumagawa that it took Ajimu three years to remove Bookmaker.

Ajimu najimi is the character's name but the real one is Anshin'in san

No, Ajimu Najimi is her real name, she just occasionally brings up Anshin'in as a nickname.

but you can use ajimu's scan that proves that ajimu can kill protagonists, this one

I find the statement "I would have had no choice but to kill you" way weaker than Ajimu saying that she can't beat Medaka and that she lost to Iihiko over 100,000,000 times, and had to simply avoid him.

And here, ihiiko himself realizing that ajimu losing was ajimu's plan

It does seem plausible that she protected Zenkichi by sacrificing herself so that Zenkichi, with his protagonist powers, could kill Iihiko. But that doesn't support the idea that Ajimu is a Low 1-A above-author character.

And zenkichi beat ihiiko with ajimu's devil-style ability, which ajinu could also use

No, she didn't have it. It was Zenkichi's Devil Style ability that he asked Hanten to make for him.

Ajimu probably could've had it, if she asked Hanten for it, but that never happened canonically.

[plus ihiiko and a reserve body from ajimu[/URL] as well as hanten shiranui

No, that's a misunderstanding.

Ajimu created Hanten to act as a backup of her.

Hanten created a clan of others so they could act as backups for her, the Shiranui clan.

This Shiranui clan decided to use their skill as backups to act that way for other people. Those that they found interesting (like Iihiko), or those that could pay them a lot (like Fukurou).

Iihiko was not a backup of Ajimu. Iihiko was backed up by Ajimu's backups as a side hustle of theirs.

so it's kind of irrelevant since ajinu only manifests itself through avatars

I have no idea where you're getting this idea from.

And another proof is ajimu talking to zenkichi after the lasso attack, which shows that she was never really affected

The first one of those was a joke, as shown on the literal next page.

The second one was the culmination of him remembering all his allies; she was just the last one in the list. This doesn't imply that all the others are telepathically speaking to him.

11⁰ Well, you can understand that here.

"While he's seemingly capable of following Ajimu everywhere she goes, we only see him follow her to the dream world in the anime original episode, and it's unclear how quickly Ajimu was moving around in reality"
That's what I interpreted.

Oh okay. Yeah I think "realm" is a less confusing word to use there, due to the Low 1-A part of this discussion.

"EDIT: Another notable problem with the "transcending dimensions" thing is that the word used for "transcend" (越える) doesn't actually mean that, its two definitions are "to be more than" (i.e. "my grandmother is more than 60 years" and "there are more than 10 humans on Earth") and "go over" (i.e. "a dog jumped the fence", "the water ran over the river bank"). I think I can see a similarity, but it's not "transcend" in the way we use it in English. Because of this, I think the Medaka Box wiki now translates this as "ability to cross dimensions"."

超える in Japanese means [things like "exceed", "go beyond" or "exceed". It's more likely to be about transcending and the word transcend in Ajimu's painting, even if it doesn't seem good enough to you, it could be put as "possibly" or "probably" since even if you don't agree it would still be a real possibility .

I don't think it's real enough for those ratings.

I find your response an all-too-common case of rating Ajimu high due to misunderstandings and not reading the series closely enough. That's a charitable reading at least, a less charitable one would be that you're deliberately taking things out of context, but I think MB's a confusing enough series for these to be accidents.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

That's not what that fallacy is.

No, it'd need to be almost dead-on for that. If she was even a few meters away it would drop to high-end 3-B. One light year away would be 4-A. I don't think it's implausible given the image shown that she would be that far away, assuming it's meant to be her PoV. The universe had a radius of about 10 light years after one second, I think it's pretty easy to call that sort of timeframe the "birth".

I am almost certain that it wouldn't, but I guess we can wait for Ultima for that.

Really, that's the only notable new point being brought up. Considering the Discussion Rule against changing Ajimu's tier without new arguments, this thread would be closeable without the saving grace of the tiering system changes.

@Antvasima @DontTalkDT How much leeway do you think I should be giving here?

Easy.

• Lip Service requires her to kiss someone.
• Five Focus requires her to scratch someone.
• Door to Door requires her to kiss someone.
• Unskilled only lasts for three minutes.

I disagree. There's no universal energy system underlying different abilities in Medaka Box. They can function very differently from each other.

We know that they were looking, all of them (except for maybe Hanten) were watching, and were intimidated by it.

There's nothing in the text of the GLK novels implying that they're purified. I think it's an important point that its actual use seems to have almost nothing to do with the description.

Because they occur on two subsequent pages; the first page there has Unskilled listed at the bottom. And on the next page she says that Count Up is the last skill she uses, so it has to be after the rest.

Even if she used them one after another, they sure seem like the sorts of things that would be visible.

You cannot simultaneously say "Her being Low 1-A is supported by her being above the rest of the cast" and "Some characters are above her, but they just scale". By acknowledging the latter you have to lose the former.

It isn't. They're both spelled the same way, and are just different readings of the same word. They're not related; Anshin'in is invoked to compare to the common word "anshin", use to mean like "feel at ease", "don't worry", etc.

No. We don't use MTL since it often makes relevant mistakes.

And I'd just generally be careful with this sort of thing, since the author often talks about characters in similar ways despite a total lack of meta powers. iirc there's statements about Zaregoto's characters pushing it to be more of a fighting-oriented series (here, question 26). And statements about Monogatari's characters changing the author's direction of the story (in the afterwords for Ougimono and Shinobumono iirc, in the first chapter of Shinomono 2, probably in some other places too).

It's just an evocative way of talking about the story-writing process, not a specific ability of Ajimu's, I think.

That's about her being sealed by Momo Momozono, a statement from chapter 152, a completely different case from Kumagawa sealing Ajimu.

In fact, near that statement we have this statement from Kumagawa that it took Ajimu three years to remove Bookmaker.

No, Ajimu Najimi is her real name, she just occasionally brings up Anshin'in as a nickname.

I find the statement "I would have had no choice but to kill you" way weaker than Ajimu saying that she can't beat Medaka and that she lost to Iihiko over 100,000,000 times, and had to simply avoid him.

It does seem plausible that she protected Zenkichi by sacrificing herself so that Zenkichi, with his protagonist powers, could kill Iihiko. But that doesn't support the idea that Ajimu is a Low 1-A above-author character.

No, she didn't have it. It was Zenkichi's Devil Style ability that he asked Hanten to make for him.

Ajimu probably could've had it, if she asked Hanten for it, but that never happened canonically.

No, that's a misunderstanding.

Ajimu created Hanten to act as a backup of her.

Hanten created a clan of others so they could act as backups for her, the Shiranui clan.

This Shiranui clan decided to use their skill as backups to act that way for other people. Those that they found interesting (like Iihiko), or those that could pay them a lot (like Fukurou).

Iihiko was not a backup of Ajimu. Iihiko was backed up by Ajimu's backups as a side hustle of theirs.

I have no idea where you're getting this idea from.

The first one of those was a joke, as shown on the literal next page.

The second one was the culmination of him remembering all his allies; she was just the last one in the list. This doesn't imply that all the others are telepathically speaking to him.

Oh okay. Yeah I think "realm" is a less confusing word to use there, due to the Low 1-A part of this discussion.

I don't think it's real enough for those ratings.

I find your response an all-too-common case of rating Ajimu high due to misunderstandings and not reading the series closely enough. That's a charitable reading at least, a less charitable one would be that you're deliberately taking things out of context, but I think MB's a confusing enough series for these to be accidents.

Two things 1⁰ If these issues have already been discussed, I don't think that's the issue. According to you, the big bang was also discussed but was removed anyway 2⁰ No link I clicked worked there.

 

[Agnaa]

Here's a rough timeline of the previous tier stuff:

• 2015-2021: "8-B sucks because it's underestimating her. 5-C sucks because the scaling to Medaka/Iihiko is really shoddy considering she got one-shot by Iihiko earlier. 4-C sucks because it was a recording in a dream world replayed after she died, rather than anything more real. 3-A sucks because it's just durability, we don't know how far away she was, and she probably used a skill to become non-corporeal. High 3-A sucks because it relies on those wall of text skills that are particularly vague and weird to combine. Low 2-C sucks because it relies on a wall of text skill that doesn't show any visuals or lasting effects. Low 1-C sucks because it relies on one portrayal in the anime which contradicts Chapter 140. 1-B sucks because it relies on a shoddy translation, and only gets to her in a roundabout way. 1-A sucks because it relies on extremely weak evidence, including vague and badly-translated wall of text skills. With all these bad options, we should just leave her at Unknown forever."
• 2021-2024: "Actually, we know she couldn't have used a skill to become non-corporeal, and she has AP scaling through her doppelganger, so 3-A kinda works. It's better than just leaving her at Unknown at least."
• 2024: "Actually, no-one cares about underestimating her anymore, let's just go back to 8-B, since 3-A is still kinda dodgy."

One of those moves was due to new evidence/arguments, and one of those moves was due to members collectively deciding to stop caring about the risk of underestimating Ajimu. They're both actual changes in views.

Your reasons are simply a subset of the same old arguments for Ajimu being beyond dimensions. Only new thing is Ultima's loosening of the standards there, but I believe even that isn't enough to let this through.

And yeah the link stuff is weird. It's saying there's too many requests. I think Imgur might just be having issues right now.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Here's a rough timeline of the previous tier stuff:

• 2015-2021: "8-B sucks because it's underestimating her. 5-C sucks because the scaling to Medaka/Iihiko is really shoddy considering she got one-shot by Iihiko earlier. 4-C sucks because it was a recording in a dream world replayed after she died, rather than anything more real. 3-A sucks because it's just durability, we don't know how far away she was, and she probably used a skill to become non-corporeal. High 3-A sucks because it relies on those wall of text skills that are particularly vague and weird to combine. Low 2-C sucks because it relies on a wall of text skill that doesn't show any visuals or lasting effects. Low 1-C sucks because it relies on one portrayal in the anime which contradicts Chapter 140. 1-B sucks because it relies on a shoddy translation, and only gets to her in a roundabout way. 1-A sucks because it relies on extremely weak evidence, including vague and badly-translated wall of text skills. With all these bad options, we should just leave her at Unknown forever."
• 2021-2024: "Actually, we know she couldn't have used a skill to become non-corporeal, and she has AP scaling through her doppelganger, so 3-A kinda works. It's better than just leaving her at Unknown at least."
• 2024: "Actually, no-one cares about underestimating her anymore, let's just go back to 8-B, since 3-A is still kinda dodgy."

One of those moves was due to new evidence/arguments, and one of those moves was due to members collectively deciding to stop caring about the risk of underestimating Ajimu. They're both actual changes in views.

Your reasons are simply a subset of the same old arguments for Ajimu being beyond dimensions. Only new thing is Ultima's loosening of the standards there, but I believe even that isn't enough to let this through.

And yeah the link stuff is weird. It's saying there's too many requests. I think Imgur might just be having issues right now.

Ok, I'll wait until I can analyze it and see if I can argue against it. Just letting you know again that I haven't read Medaka Box and I'm here at the request of a friend, did you read the beginning? (not that it matters much anyway)

 

[Agnaa]

The beginning of the thread where you said it was on the behalf of a friend? Ye.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Here's a rough timeline of the previous tier stuff:

• 2015-2021: "8-B sucks because it's underestimating her. 5-C sucks because the scaling to Medaka/Iihiko is really shoddy considering she got one-shot by Iihiko earlier. 4-C sucks because it was a recording in a dream world replayed after she died, rather than anything more real. 3-A sucks because it's just durability, we don't know how far away she was, and she probably used a skill to become non-corporeal. High 3-A sucks because it relies on those wall of text skills that are particularly vague and weird to combine. Low 2-C sucks because it relies on a wall of text skill that doesn't show any visuals or lasting effects. Low 1-C sucks because it relies on one portrayal in the anime which contradicts Chapter 140. 1-B sucks because it relies on a shoddy translation, and only gets to her in a roundabout way. 1-A sucks because it relies on extremely weak evidence, including vague and badly-translated wall of text skills. With all these bad options, we should just leave her at Unknown forever."
• 2021-2024: "Actually, we know she couldn't have used a skill to become non-corporeal, and she has AP scaling through her doppelganger, so 3-A kinda works. It's better than just leaving her at Unknown at least."
• 2024: "Actually, no-one cares about underestimating her anymore, let's just go back to 8-B, since 3-A is still kinda dodgy."

One of those moves was due to new evidence/arguments, and one of those moves was due to members collectively deciding to stop caring about the risk of underestimating Ajimu. They're both actual changes in views.

Your reasons are simply a subset of the same old arguments for Ajimu being beyond dimensions. Only new thing is Ultima's loosening of the standards there, but I believe even that isn't enough to let this through.

And yeah the link stuff is weird. It's saying there's too many requests. I think Imgur might just be having issues right now.

Btw, just in case.

Shouldn't she be "Unknown, at least 8-B" or something?

We usually use that for characters who massively upscale over something to the point of not being within that tier anymore, while still knowing it's that tier at bare minimum.

Some examples of what I mean.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Btw, just in case.

Shouldn't she be "Unknown, at least 8-B" or something?

We usually use that for characters who massively upscale over something to the point of not being within that tier anymore, while still knowing it's that tier at bare minimum.

Some examples of what I mean.

It makes sense

 

[Agnaa]

Btw, just in case.

Shouldn't she be "Unknown, at least 8-B" or something?

We usually use that for characters who massively upscale over something to the point of not being within that tier anymore, while still knowing it's that tier at bare minimum.

Some examples of what I mean.

Yeah, she's listed as Unknown, at least 8-B, likely far higher.

Before that she was Unknown, likely 3-A, possibly far higher, and before that, she was just Unknown.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, she's listed as Unknown, at least 8-B, likely far higher.

The likely far higher is kinda redundant, the Unknown part kinda implies that her actual tier is impossible to determine, but at at bare minimum she's that much.

I'd remove it for the sake of making it consistent with the other profiles and making it clear, too.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Oh nvm, I got why she has that.

Forgot about the weird skills part. Though I'd still remove the "likely far higher" and just make the emphasis on why she's not just 8-B in the justification. If it looks lenghty enough, then it should make clear the reason behind this tiering wording.

 

[Agnaa]

The likely far higher is kinda redundant, the Unknown part kinda implies that her actual tier is impossible to determine, but at at bare minimum she's that much.

I'd remove it for the sake of making it consistent with the other profiles and making it clear, too.

idk if this is a thing we still consistently do, but I view some different combinations as involving different implications.

• Unknown, likely/possibly tier: They don't have solid feats, likely/possibly shows the closest thing we have.
• Unknown, at least tier: They casually did a feat, or got quite a boost from before without any feats to match it other than scaling.
• Unknown, at least tier, likely/possibly higher/far higher: Their feat was ludicrously casual, and/or we have solid indications that they're stronger which we can't properly quantify.

We don't actually codify that anywhere, but that's the vibe I've gotten (and used) when making pages.

Oh nvm, I got why she has that.

Forgot about the weird skills part. Though I'd still remove the "likely far higher" and just make the emphasis on why she's not just 8-B in the justification. If it looks lenghty enough, then it should make clear the reason behind this tiering wording.

So just put all the justification in the 8-B part? Meh.

 

[StrymULTRA]

• Unknown, at least tier: They casually did a feat, or got quite a boost from before without any feats to match it other than scaling.
• Unknown, at least tier, likely/possibly higher/far higher: Their feat was ludicrously casual, and/or we have solid indications that they're stronger which we can't properly quantify.

These things are pretty much the same but with different words, especially when for upscaling we usually take an unquantifiable boost unless a number is stated.

Just Unknown, at least X is enough for me, considering that the MCU Mind Stone fits in the second thing I quoted, but doesn't get this luxury of far higher.

So just put all the justification in the 8-B part? Meh.

Pretty much. I'd remember you that she's not just 8-B and it's up to the justification to put emphasis on why she's not just that tier.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

That's not what that fallacy is.

No, it'd need to be almost dead-on for that. If she was even a few meters away it would drop to high-end 3-B. One light year away would be 4-A. I don't think it's implausible given the image shown that she would be that far away, assuming it's meant to be her PoV. The universe had a radius of about 10 light years after one second, I think it's pretty easy to call that sort of timeframe the "birth".

I am almost certain that it wouldn't, but I guess we can wait for Ultima for that.

Really, that's the only notable new point being brought up. Considering the Discussion Rule against changing Ajimu's tier without new arguments, this thread would be closeable without the saving grace of the tiering system changes.

@Antvasima @DontTalkDT How much leeway do you think I should be giving here?

Easy.

• Lip Service requires her to kiss someone.
• Five Focus requires her to scratch someone.
• Door to Door requires her to kiss someone.
• Unskilled only lasts for three minutes.

I disagree. There's no universal energy system underlying different abilities in Medaka Box. They can function very differently from each other.

We know that they were looking, all of them (except for maybe Hanten) were watching, and were intimidated by it.

There's nothing in the text of the GLK novels implying that they're purified. I think it's an important point that its actual use seems to have almost nothing to do with the description.

Because they occur on two subsequent pages; the first page there has Unskilled listed at the bottom. And on the next page she says that Count Up is the last skill she uses, so it has to be after the rest.

Even if she used them one after another, they sure seem like the sorts of things that would be visible.

You cannot simultaneously say "Her being Low 1-A is supported by her being above the rest of the cast" and "Some characters are above her, but they just scale". By acknowledging the latter you have to lose the former.

It isn't. They're both spelled the same way, and are just different readings of the same word. They're not related; Anshin'in is invoked to compare to the common word "anshin", use to mean like "feel at ease", "don't worry", etc.

No. We don't use MTL since it often makes relevant mistakes.

And I'd just generally be careful with this sort of thing, since the author often talks about characters in similar ways despite a total lack of meta powers. iirc there's statements about Zaregoto's characters pushing it to be more of a fighting-oriented series (here, question 26). And statements about Monogatari's characters changing the author's direction of the story (in the afterwords for Ougimono and Shinobumono iirc, in the first chapter of Shinomono 2, probably in some other places too).

It's just an evocative way of talking about the story-writing process, not a specific ability of Ajimu's, I think.

That's about her being sealed by Momo Momozono, a statement from chapter 152, a completely different case from Kumagawa sealing Ajimu.

In fact, near that statement we have this statement from Kumagawa that it took Ajimu three years to remove Bookmaker.

No, Ajimu Najimi is her real name, she just occasionally brings up Anshin'in as a nickname.

I find the statement "I would have had no choice but to kill you" way weaker than Ajimu saying that she can't beat Medaka and that she lost to Iihiko over 100,000,000 times, and had to simply avoid him.

It does seem plausible that she protected Zenkichi by sacrificing herself so that Zenkichi, with his protagonist powers, could kill Iihiko. But that doesn't support the idea that Ajimu is a Low 1-A above-author character.

No, she didn't have it. It was Zenkichi's Devil Style ability that he asked Hanten to make for him.

Ajimu probably could've had it, if she asked Hanten for it, but that never happened canonically.

No, that's a misunderstanding.

Ajimu created Hanten to act as a backup of her.

Hanten created a clan of others so they could act as backups for her, the Shiranui clan.

This Shiranui clan decided to use their skill as backups to act that way for other people. Those that they found interesting (like Iihiko), or those that could pay them a lot (like Fukurou).

Iihiko was not a backup of Ajimu. Iihiko was backed up by Ajimu's backups as a side hustle of theirs.

I have no idea where you're getting this idea from.

The first one of those was a joke, as shown on the literal next page.

The second one was the culmination of him remembering all his allies; she was just the last one in the list. This doesn't imply that all the others are telepathically speaking to him.

Oh okay. Yeah I think "realm" is a less confusing word to use there, due to the Low 1-A part of this discussion.

I don't think it's real enough for those ratings.

I find your response an all-too-common case of rating Ajimu high due to misunderstandings and not reading the series closely enough. That's a charitable reading at least, a less charitable one would be that you're deliberately taking things out of context, but I thiDude, my links are working, nk MB's a confusing enough series for these to be accidents.

Dude, my links are working, are you sure they're not your links?

 

[Agnaa]

Dude, my links are working, are you sure they're not your links?

Your Imgur links aren't working for me either now.

If there's a different issue breaking only my links, I can't see what it is rn.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Your Imgur links aren't working for me either now.

If there's a different issue breaking only my links, I can't see what it is rn.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

That's not what that fallacy is.

No, it'd need to be almost dead-on for that. If she was even a few meters away it would drop to high-end 3-B. One light year away would be 4-A. I don't think it's implausible given the image shown that she would be that far away, assuming it's meant to be her PoV. The universe had a radius of about 10 light years after one second, I think it's pretty easy to call that sort of timeframe the "birth".

I am almost certain that it wouldn't, but I guess we can wait for Ultima for that.

Really, that's the only notable new point being brought up. Considering the Discussion Rule against changing Ajimu's tier without new arguments, this thread would be closeable without the saving grace of the tiering system changes.

@Antvasima @DontTalkDT How much leeway do you think I should be giving here?

Easy.

• Lip Service requires her to kiss someone.
• Five Focus requires her to scratch someone.
• Door to Door requires her to kiss someone.
• Unskilled only lasts for three minutes.

I disagree. There's no universal energy system underlying different abilities in Medaka Box. They can function very differently from each other.

We know that they were looking, all of them (except for maybe Hanten) were watching, and were intimidated by it.

There's nothing in the text of the GLK novels implying that they're purified. I think it's an important point that its actual use seems to have almost nothing to do with the description.

Because they occur on two subsequent pages; the first page there has Unskilled listed at the bottom. And on the next page she says that Count Up is the last skill she uses, so it has to be after the rest.

Even if she used them one after another, they sure seem like the sorts of things that would be visible.

You cannot simultaneously say "Her being Low 1-A is supported by her being above the rest of the cast" and "Some characters are above her, but they just scale". By acknowledging the latter you have to lose the former.

It isn't. They're both spelled the same way, and are just different readings of the same word. They're not related; Anshin'in is invoked to compare to the common word "anshin", use to mean like "feel at ease", "don't worry", etc.

No. We don't use MTL since it often makes relevant mistakes.

And I'd just generally be careful with this sort of thing, since the author often talks about characters in similar ways despite a total lack of meta powers. iirc there's statements about Zaregoto's characters pushing it to be more of a fighting-oriented series (here, question 26). And statements about Monogatari's characters changing the author's direction of the story (in the afterwords for Ougimono and Shinobumono iirc, in the first chapter of Shinomono 2, probably in some other places too).

It's just an evocative way of talking about the story-writing process, not a specific ability of Ajimu's, I think.

That's about her being sealed by Momo Momozono, a statement from chapter 152, a completely different case from Kumagawa sealing Ajimu.

In fact, near that statement we have this statement from Kumagawa that it took Ajimu three years to remove Bookmaker.

No, Ajimu Najimi is her real name, she just occasionally brings up Anshin'in as a nickname.

I find the statement "I would have had no choice but to kill you" way weaker than Ajimu saying that she can't beat Medaka and that she lost to Iihiko over 100,000,000 times, and had to simply avoid him.

It does seem plausible that she protected Zenkichi by sacrificing herself so that Zenkichi, with his protagonist powers, could kill Iihiko. But that doesn't support the idea that Ajimu is a Low 1-A above-author character.

No, she didn't have it. It was Zenkichi's Devil Style ability that he asked Hanten to make for him.

Ajimu probably could've had it, if she asked Hanten for it, but that never happened canonically.

No, that's a misunderstanding.

Ajimu created Hanten to act as a backup of her.

Hanten created a clan of others so they could act as backups for her, the Shiranui clan.

This Shiranui clan decided to use their skill as backups to act that way for other people. Those that they found interesting (like Iihiko), or those that could pay them a lot (like Fukurou).

Iihiko was not a backup of Ajimu. Iihiko was backed up by Ajimu's backups as a side hustle of theirs.

I have no idea where you're getting this idea from.

The first one of those was a joke, as shown on the literal next page.

The second one was the culmination of him remembering all his allies; she was just the last one in the list. This doesn't imply that all the others are telepathically speaking to him.

Oh okay. Yeah I think "realm" is a less confusing word to use there, due to the Low 1-A part of this discussion.

I don't think it's real enough for those ratings.

I find your response an all-too-common case of rating Ajimu high due to misunderstandings and not reading the series closely enough. That's a charitable reading at least, a less charitable one would be that you're deliberately taking things out of context, but I think MB's a confusing enough series for these to be accidents.

I just answered most of the arguments, I'm just going to wait for my friend to respond to the ones that require knowledge of MB

 

[DontTalkDT]

I am almost certain that it wouldn't, but I guess we can wait for Ultima for that.

Really, that's the only notable new point being brought up. Considering the Discussion Rule against changing Ajimu's tier without new arguments, this thread would be closeable without the saving grace of the tiering system changes.

@Antvasima @DontTalkDT How much leeway do you think I should be giving here?

IMO none. That we don't use her one word skills has been conclusively decided in the past and the discussion rule exist for, in no small part, that very reason.

There is an interesting point to be had that "without further context" is probably a terrible formulation on the Tiering System's part, but that is better debated in a separate thread IMO. (Which I suppose I will make now)

Edit: Made it. But remember it's a staff thread, guys.

 

[Random_Bill_Cipher_tard]

Wait, I made something wrong and ended up leaving it in Portuguese by accident, aa