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So he doesn't have low-godly in the final arc?
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Aizen regen downgrade
- Thread starter Theglassman12
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Actually, Urahara noted that Aizen got stronger since the last time he fought Ichigo. And pretty sure the only reasonable reason is because of the Hogyoku.
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Aizen doesn't have the Hogyoku in the final arc, it's somewhere else as revealed in the Novel. Yet, EoS Aizen is stronger than Hogyoku Aizen and evolved further given he is now fused with his Zanpakuto and no longer needs a blade.
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1. Um no, how exactly is that unreasoable? Aizen clearly had a large purpose in being in the later arcs of the series, and if it wasnt for him Ichigo wouldnt have been able to defeat Yhwach. Even if he was killable, Aizen would be protected by PIS/CIS to appear in later arcs, which happens with majority of verses in fiction. That is my point here.
2.) That doesnt make my point invalid whatsoever. Kenpachi and Unohana battling it out in the Muken while Aizen's in there without affecting the outside has nothing to do with it being such a size beyond Yamamoto's scale of power. If Yama wouldnt be effecting the SS, he'd be effecting the Muken and there is no set size to it to say he can't destroy it. So again, what is stopping me from saying Yama would be afraid of destroying the Muken instead of the SS? It's obviously a great use for them.
3.) This also doesnt shut down my point. For one, them not being able to stop his heart from beating is more or less sounding like the SS doesnt have the tech/medical usage of being able to do that, not because they cant outright destroy it and the Hyogoku IIRC already gave Aizen a level of Immortality. Plus again, Yamamoto's EE is relient on power as his bankai uses the power of it's flames to erase the target when cutting it. It's not purely hax. That means it would need to be > Aizen's power/Reiatsu in order for it to work. Aizen is clearly stronger.
4. Yes, but the blade when in Bankai stores flames inside of it to use to attack foes. Kinda hard to do that when inside a place where flames likely cannot be.
Also repeating an earlier point, Aizen still had K.S. induced on literally everyone in the S.S. except Ichigo. It would be too risky for Yama or anyone to use such hard-level tactics against Aizen when Aizen would just troll them into attacking each other when needed.
2.) That doesnt make my point invalid whatsoever. Kenpachi and Unohana battling it out in the Muken while Aizen's in there without affecting the outside has nothing to do with it being such a size beyond Yamamoto's scale of power. If Yama wouldnt be effecting the SS, he'd be effecting the Muken and there is no set size to it to say he can't destroy it. So again, what is stopping me from saying Yama would be afraid of destroying the Muken instead of the SS? It's obviously a great use for them.
3.) This also doesnt shut down my point. For one, them not being able to stop his heart from beating is more or less sounding like the SS doesnt have the tech/medical usage of being able to do that, not because they cant outright destroy it and the Hyogoku IIRC already gave Aizen a level of Immortality. Plus again, Yamamoto's EE is relient on power as his bankai uses the power of it's flames to erase the target when cutting it. It's not purely hax. That means it would need to be > Aizen's power/Reiatsu in order for it to work. Aizen is clearly stronger.
4. Yes, but the blade when in Bankai stores flames inside of it to use to attack foes. Kinda hard to do that when inside a place where flames likely cannot be.
Also repeating an earlier point, Aizen still had K.S. induced on literally everyone in the S.S. except Ichigo. It would be too risky for Yama or anyone to use such hard-level tactics against Aizen when Aizen would just troll them into attacking each other when needed.
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Oh, my mistake then.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
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An easy mistake, yet people are agreeing with the downgrade based on the OP who is also mistaken and believes Aizen has the Hogyoku at the moment. Aizen's Regenerationn was told to us in the Final Arc to be based on his Soul. We are told in the Novels he no longer has the Hogyoku (also, we are told it rejected him during the Arrancar Arc).Homu Sweet Homu said:
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You mean his heart?
Since when do Soul Reapers, who literally are souls.....have souls of their own? I may've asked this before but don't recall getting an answer for this.
Since when do Soul Reapers, who literally are souls.....have souls of their own? I may've asked this before but don't recall getting an answer for this.
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1) it unreasonable because 2 smartest guy in SS has stated SS cant kill him, so it's not because PIS?CIS yama don't Bankai him because it won't kill him
2.) I think you dont read my point sicen even yama himself say this this, He won't instantly destroy SS with his bankai. And Muken need to be pretty darm big or Aizen can bush through muken with force. And Aizen can literally do what Yama bankai can do to SS with reiatsu. Plus shunsui has plan to permanently seal Muken with Aizen trap in there in case if he try to Kill him and escape.
3.) If you cant stop his heart from beating by destroying it..how can you can achieve that via medical means? seriously?
>Yamamoto's EE is relient on power as his bankai uses the power of it's flames to erase the target when cutting it. It's not purely hax. That means it would need to be > Aizen's power/Reiatsu in order for it to work. Aizen is clearly stronger.
Cool, except Aizen is not moon level when the first time he arrive in muken, he much weaker and Yama bankai is hax since you cant reduce something into nothing with just AP alone.
4.His flames is stored inside his blade, not outside so Idk man
2.) I think you dont read my point sicen even yama himself say this this, He won't instantly destroy SS with his bankai. And Muken need to be pretty darm big or Aizen can bush through muken with force. And Aizen can literally do what Yama bankai can do to SS with reiatsu. Plus shunsui has plan to permanently seal Muken with Aizen trap in there in case if he try to Kill him and escape.
3.) If you cant stop his heart from beating by destroying it..how can you can achieve that via medical means? seriously?
>Yamamoto's EE is relient on power as his bankai uses the power of it's flames to erase the target when cutting it. It's not purely hax. That means it would need to be > Aizen's power/Reiatsu in order for it to work. Aizen is clearly stronger.
Cool, except Aizen is not moon level when the first time he arrive in muken, he much weaker and Yama bankai is hax since you cant reduce something into nothing with just AP alone.
4.His flames is stored inside his blade, not outside so Idk man
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@Kukui
1) ...Or nothing in the SS could destroy him means what it means which is why hes still alive? You could say this about any character (Orihime, tsukishima..etc) relevant to the last arc.
2) Its closed off from the SS and is stated to be a nigh infinitly large space. Where is this no set size coming from? If you have proof Yama has anywhere near that kinda range to destory this structure post tbh
3) Zanka no Tachi, Kita: Tenchi Kaijin is hax not AP so unless you think Aizen resists EE this is not the case
4) SS functions like the real world to souls so yes they need to breathe...
1) ...Or nothing in the SS could destroy him means what it means which is why hes still alive? You could say this about any character (Orihime, tsukishima..etc) relevant to the last arc.
2) Its closed off from the SS and is stated to be a nigh infinitly large space. Where is this no set size coming from? If you have proof Yama has anywhere near that kinda range to destory this structure post tbh
3) Zanka no Tachi, Kita: Tenchi Kaijin is hax not AP so unless you think Aizen resists EE this is not the case
4) SS functions like the real world to souls so yes they need to breathe...
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I swear man, at this point everyone agreeing with the downgrade is severely misinformed. I even copy pasted my points on this mistake several times in this thread already:ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Well, the souls in Bleach aren't exactly incorporeal protoplasm or whatnot. They are molecules and cells, and they age and need to eat (The Shinigami at least), and they react to cold exactly the same as our particles do.
So it ain't exactly fair to give Mid-Godly to something that is so demonstrably physical in practically every way.
However, if Mugetsu does fully erase, then yeah Low-Godly seems fair.
Which is all true. Souls (Konpaku) and Spiritual Bodies in Bleach do function like real bodies when in the Spiritual World (Soul Society) or in Hueco Mundo or against other Souls. The difference is the interaction of a Soul (Konpaku) / Spiritual Body with non-spiritual things in the World of the Living.
Konpaku means soul, yet in Bleach the Konpaku is literally the body of the soul. Gigais are Konpaku. Konpaku = Real Body, Soul = Soul.
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1.) Thats not how PIS/CIS works. A CIS Yama would be him not willing or thinking of using his Bankai on Aizen for the sake of story. But i'll be willing to drop this point as it's my lowest one.
2.) For one, nothing in that scan means Yama wouldnt instantly destroy the SS. If anything, it proves even more he would. He said to Yhwach that "if this doesn't end soon", meaning he would resort to destroy them both and the SS if the fight was to be dragged on too far after a point. Impyling Yama wants to end it immediately if he was required.
Second, no not really. Aizen wouldnt be stupid enough to destroy a realm he's trapped inside of at the same time, plus like you said yourself the Muken has no connection to the outside world (SS). Even if Aizen could do that, he also wouldnt be stupid enough to do something to make Yama and the others seal him there as he'd be permanently trapped with the Muken's destruction. As for Shunsui, you're literally supporting my point with him planning that, proving the SS wouldnt want to risk the Muken being destroyed as they have a use for it.
3.) Because through conventional means, as in launching destructive attacks to Aizens heart, it wouldnt work because of Aizen's immortality. Even without Low-Godly regen, like say Mid-High, using just brute power alone can't bypass it. So making it stop through medical means, like how people use suringes to forcefully stop the heart, would be a different approach to use. Whether the SS or Mayuri is even capable of that is debatable though.
As for the bottom point, he doesnt have to be Moon level as (currently anyway) he is High 6-A. Same tier as Yamamoto. And Yama's E.E. is definitely not purely hax. When I say "reliant on power", I mean it succeeds/fails depending on the power of the opponent in question. And we know thats the case as Yama does it through his Bankai's flames. If your stronger than the flames, it's not erasing you.
4.) Fair, but just keeping it stored inside the Zanpakuto shouldnt be an answer to how it can be used in a place that doesnt allow fire whatsoever.
2.) For one, nothing in that scan means Yama wouldnt instantly destroy the SS. If anything, it proves even more he would. He said to Yhwach that "if this doesn't end soon", meaning he would resort to destroy them both and the SS if the fight was to be dragged on too far after a point. Impyling Yama wants to end it immediately if he was required.
Second, no not really. Aizen wouldnt be stupid enough to destroy a realm he's trapped inside of at the same time, plus like you said yourself the Muken has no connection to the outside world (SS). Even if Aizen could do that, he also wouldnt be stupid enough to do something to make Yama and the others seal him there as he'd be permanently trapped with the Muken's destruction. As for Shunsui, you're literally supporting my point with him planning that, proving the SS wouldnt want to risk the Muken being destroyed as they have a use for it.
3.) Because through conventional means, as in launching destructive attacks to Aizens heart, it wouldnt work because of Aizen's immortality. Even without Low-Godly regen, like say Mid-High, using just brute power alone can't bypass it. So making it stop through medical means, like how people use suringes to forcefully stop the heart, would be a different approach to use. Whether the SS or Mayuri is even capable of that is debatable though.
As for the bottom point, he doesnt have to be Moon level as (currently anyway) he is High 6-A. Same tier as Yamamoto. And Yama's E.E. is definitely not purely hax. When I say "reliant on power", I mean it succeeds/fails depending on the power of the opponent in question. And we know thats the case as Yama does it through his Bankai's flames. If your stronger than the flames, it's not erasing you.
4.) Fair, but just keeping it stored inside the Zanpakuto shouldnt be an answer to how it can be used in a place that doesnt allow fire whatsoever.
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For the latter scan, thats looking more like Kenpachi being injured because, like Gremmy said, his open wounds would feel pain in outer space.MachTwo said:
But i'll digress as id rather not get into specifics on how Kenpachi was injured there.
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Yeah no. Im disagreeing with this.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
The scan your using to justify a Konpaku being a "body of the soul" is the same scan you yelled at me about when I previously argued Soul Reapers and Hollows to be intangible. Like you corrected me about and consistently said before, Soul Reapers and Hollows can physically interact with people because of the high-level spirit density they have, thats the reason why now they don't have intangibility. You yourself were dead set agreeing with this when showing me the scan of it saying they can be touched, just not seen.
So why are Konpaku suddenly being made out to be the same as that? Konpaku are just normal souls, who are supposed to be regular spirits like the pluses.
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1.) Yeah that not CIS when we have confirmation on why nobody even attempt to kill Aizen
2.) it wont take too long for Yama to Kill him when Aizen is trap and sealed in 1 place, plus we have 3 chapter of him using his bankai on Yhwach and he dint destroy SS in the process, Muken is infinity in size so Yama wont completely destroy Muken if he try to use Bankai, sure he will destroy Aizen prison but thats it, Its Infinity In size thus they can just create new prison somewhere in case if SS still need Muken, and as you said Muken has no connection to the outside world so Another point on how Yama can just rampage in Muken wihout any fear. Yama have no problem to sacrifice himself as well if that mean he can kill Aizen.
3.) Because you will stop ppl heart if you destroy it, and Because SS cant stop Aizen heart via destroy it so Idk man. Seems like you relied on too much unreasonable theory
You make no sense because you cant relied on AP to erase something, it need to be hax, even Yamamoto has Durability Negation listed in his profile, so idk man, you can created CRT for this or leave.
4.) Why? his flames don't exist outside of his zanpakuto but being stored inside so idk what the problem with this.
>For the latter scan, thats looking more like Kenpachi being injured because, like Gremmy said, his open wounds would feel pain in outer space. But i'll digress as id rather not get into specifics on how Kenpachi was injured there.
I see so you using gremmy words? well by his own words he say kenpachi cant breathe as well.
2.) it wont take too long for Yama to Kill him when Aizen is trap and sealed in 1 place, plus we have 3 chapter of him using his bankai on Yhwach and he dint destroy SS in the process, Muken is infinity in size so Yama wont completely destroy Muken if he try to use Bankai, sure he will destroy Aizen prison but thats it, Its Infinity In size thus they can just create new prison somewhere in case if SS still need Muken, and as you said Muken has no connection to the outside world so Another point on how Yama can just rampage in Muken wihout any fear. Yama have no problem to sacrifice himself as well if that mean he can kill Aizen.
3.) Because you will stop ppl heart if you destroy it, and Because SS cant stop Aizen heart via destroy it so Idk man. Seems like you relied on too much unreasonable theory
You make no sense because you cant relied on AP to erase something, it need to be hax, even Yamamoto has Durability Negation listed in his profile, so idk man, you can created CRT for this or leave.
4.) Why? his flames don't exist outside of his zanpakuto but being stored inside so idk what the problem with this.
>For the latter scan, thats looking more like Kenpachi being injured because, like Gremmy said, his open wounds would feel pain in outer space. But i'll digress as id rather not get into specifics on how Kenpachi was injured there.
I see so you using gremmy words? well by his own words he say kenpachi cant breathe as well.
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That's not true. You were using a mistranslated scan to try to argue that Souls are intangible.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Again, people in this thread are arguing on topics that were settled in previous threads. In the intangibility thread that you were using mistranslated scans in, we had already provided scans that Konpaku are bodies made of Reishi while in the real world, regular bodies are made of Kishi.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
This is the connection to Matthew's comment:
Well, the souls in Bleach aren't exactly incorporeal protoplasm or whatnot. They are molecules and cells, and they age and need to eat (The Shinigami at least), and they react to cold exactly the same as our particles do.
We've had several threads that have already been resolved that Souls in Bleach behave like real living people. They have molecules, they eat, they sleep and age. The Konpaku is the spiritual body of the soul, we are told this and it has been gone over on the wiki.
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@Mach
1.) Again, that isn't how PIS/CIS works. It doesn't matter what they confirmed, it can still be either of (more likely PIS but eh). But to be clear, they said they didn't even attempt to kill Aizen?
2.) >Wont take long to kill Aizen
That doesn't matter. What does matter is that if Yama tried doing that, he'd likely destroy the Muken or have drastic effects on it and obviously the SS wouldnt allow that.
>Span of 3 chapters and didn't destroy SS.
I'd probably also argue that as PIS as obviously the plot wouldnt allow Yama to insta wipe everyone out with his Bankai. It's a common "fighting" trope across fiction. DB is a wonderful example of this.
>Muken is infinite in size
It's not. It's size stretches for an infinity, giving it an unquantifiable size. It's not the same thing.
>Wouldnt effect the outside world
Okay? Thats not my point. The point is it would damage/destroy the Muken.
3.) Since you brought up the bit about "they didnt even attempt to destroy him", im not so sure "unreasonable" fits here anymore. But anyway, like I said, you can't counter regen with just pure conventional attack power. Aizen wouldnt need Low-Godly regen to keep his heart from being permanently destroyed.
And sure you can rely on AP for a hax to work. It's called the "Power>Hax" fallacy. That, or its simply a weakness in Yamamoto's E.E. that it can't erase opponents with stronger power (Reiatsu) than the power of his flames.
The rest involves Gremmy, which I agreed to drop, so leaving it at just these 3 points.
1.) Again, that isn't how PIS/CIS works. It doesn't matter what they confirmed, it can still be either of (more likely PIS but eh). But to be clear, they said they didn't even attempt to kill Aizen?
2.) >Wont take long to kill Aizen
That doesn't matter. What does matter is that if Yama tried doing that, he'd likely destroy the Muken or have drastic effects on it and obviously the SS wouldnt allow that.
>Span of 3 chapters and didn't destroy SS.
I'd probably also argue that as PIS as obviously the plot wouldnt allow Yama to insta wipe everyone out with his Bankai. It's a common "fighting" trope across fiction. DB is a wonderful example of this.
>Muken is infinite in size
It's not. It's size stretches for an infinity, giving it an unquantifiable size. It's not the same thing.
>Wouldnt effect the outside world
Okay? Thats not my point. The point is it would damage/destroy the Muken.
3.) Since you brought up the bit about "they didnt even attempt to destroy him", im not so sure "unreasonable" fits here anymore. But anyway, like I said, you can't counter regen with just pure conventional attack power. Aizen wouldnt need Low-Godly regen to keep his heart from being permanently destroyed.
And sure you can rely on AP for a hax to work. It's called the "Power>Hax" fallacy. That, or its simply a weakness in Yamamoto's E.E. that it can't erase opponents with stronger power (Reiatsu) than the power of his flames.
The rest involves Gremmy, which I agreed to drop, so leaving it at just these 3 points.
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@Imade
Just like your using a mistranslated soul to support Konpaku being as physical bodies as that was what was linked.
Anyway, the issue that I see with that agreement is that we're assuming that when a living person in bleach, like Uryu for example, is converted from Kishi to Reishi that he actually keeps his soul while in Reishi form. In other words, having his physical Kishi body become Reishi and then keeping his soul to have both a spiritual body and that of a soul. It's a much bigger leap in logic than to just say they actually become their souls literally when converted into spiritual beings (Reishi particles). Reishi are just spirit particles, why would the converter suddenly convert him, Orihime, Chad, etc. into spiritual beings that differ from that of their own souls?
Just like your using a mistranslated soul to support Konpaku being as physical bodies as that was what was linked.
Anyway, the issue that I see with that agreement is that we're assuming that when a living person in bleach, like Uryu for example, is converted from Kishi to Reishi that he actually keeps his soul while in Reishi form. In other words, having his physical Kishi body become Reishi and then keeping his soul to have both a spiritual body and that of a soul. It's a much bigger leap in logic than to just say they actually become their souls literally when converted into spiritual beings (Reishi particles). Reishi are just spirit particles, why would the converter suddenly convert him, Orihime, Chad, etc. into spiritual beings that differ from that of their own souls?
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At this point, it feels less like even trying to argue the disintegration, which I personally agree with but I am okay with whatever final decision is taken, and more people not believing Mugetsu would have the peculiar qualities of a quincy attack and misunderstanding what the difference between Konpaku and the actual soul housed inside is.
Which is, pardon me, a bit hilarious.
Which is, pardon me, a bit hilarious.
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The bolden part is the bit that, honestly, im not understanding at all and is probably like the third out of a billions times i've heard of this being a thing.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I always presumed that the Konpaku were just the actual souls themselves. Not suddenly a body of spiritual particles housing a deeper soul. I have no idea why we're making spirit particles/reishi to suddenly not be the same thing as the soul its "housing".
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Because, simply enough, you never see no one's body disappear or disintegrate after they die despite the fact they are just souls. For the spiritual world, the body is as corporeal as a real body in the real world. You don't forget people just laying around dead or moments like the funeral of Rukia's sister.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Yet as per the flow of souls, the souls move across the two worlds in a constant balance. If that is the case and happens when a Shinigami or any spirit in Soul Society dies, why does the "body" remain behind if it's the soul itself and not a container?
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Rukia's sister doesnt sound like a good example since she died via an illness, an unnatural death. Off-screen nontheless. If it was something like dying of age, I'd probably be more inclined to agree with you.
Though I do think I see what your saying now. The problem however is I don't believe the bodies of Konpaku are ever shown or stated to actually remain behind in the SS. The only thing that probably implies this are possibly graves being in the SS.
Though I do think I see what your saying now. The problem however is I don't believe the bodies of Konpaku are ever shown or stated to actually remain behind in the SS. The only thing that probably implies this are possibly graves being in the SS.
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1.) Again, we have confirmation from 2 smartest guy in SS say SS cant kill Aizen We have confirmation, so idk why you think that PIS/CIS is more make sense than that
2.) Muken stretches for infinity, Yama Can destroy 1000 KM area in Muken and it's still doesn't matter and won't make Muken Unusable, Plus Muken exist because there are several criminal in SS who just can't die thus if Yama can kill them then it really doesn't matter if he destroy a portion of muken in the process. And as I said above because Muken stretches for infinity, Yama can bankai 104646464644545644 KM area of Muken and that still wont make Muken unusable in the future.
Heck. Muken can be Planet size and Yama still won't completely destroy Muken with his bankai
>I'd probably also argue that as PIS as obviously the plot wouldnt allow Yama to insta wipe everyone out with his Bankai. It's a common "fighting" trope across fiction. DB is a wonderful example of this.
Not really because Yama said it himself, he need to quickly Beat Yhwach or else he will destroy SS. See? He can destroy SS but that will take some time
3.) I see, you misunderstands how his regen works. Aizen regen come his Reiatsu (Spiritual Pressure) still being produced through his heart" and even if you destroy his heart, it won't stop the process
So this is not like when you destroy his heart then the rest of his body will regen his heart. Nope. But his own Reiatsu will regen his heart and his Reiatsu can still be produced through his heart even if you destoy his heart
2.) Muken stretches for infinity, Yama Can destroy 1000 KM area in Muken and it's still doesn't matter and won't make Muken Unusable, Plus Muken exist because there are several criminal in SS who just can't die thus if Yama can kill them then it really doesn't matter if he destroy a portion of muken in the process. And as I said above because Muken stretches for infinity, Yama can bankai 104646464644545644 KM area of Muken and that still wont make Muken unusable in the future.
Heck. Muken can be Planet size and Yama still won't completely destroy Muken with his bankai
>I'd probably also argue that as PIS as obviously the plot wouldnt allow Yama to insta wipe everyone out with his Bankai. It's a common "fighting" trope across fiction. DB is a wonderful example of this.
Not really because Yama said it himself, he need to quickly Beat Yhwach or else he will destroy SS. See? He can destroy SS but that will take some time
3.) I see, you misunderstands how his regen works. Aizen regen come his Reiatsu (Spiritual Pressure) still being produced through his heart" and even if you destroy his heart, it won't stop the process
So this is not like when you destroy his heart then the rest of his body will regen his heart. Nope. But his own Reiatsu will regen his heart and his Reiatsu can still be produced through his heart even if you destoy his heart
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Forgot about this one
>And sure you can rely on AP for a hax to work. It's called the "Power>Hax" fallacy. That, or its simply a weakness in Yamamoto's E.E. that it can't erase opponents with stronger power (Reiatsu) than the power of his flames.
3.) No? you cant use AP to erase something, its imposible plus as I said..Aizen is much weaker when the first time he arrive in Muken. He not out of Yama reach espesially when Gin can pirce Aizen with his Bankai when Gin himself is much weaker than him, and in bleach there are mutliple instace on how weaker char can damage stronger char and this is expesially true for Shinigami because they lack the defensive technique like Quncy and Arrancar. Plus another point is Mayuri can restrain his spiritual power even further with his technology, Further weakened Aizen defence.
>And sure you can rely on AP for a hax to work. It's called the "Power>Hax" fallacy. That, or its simply a weakness in Yamamoto's E.E. that it can't erase opponents with stronger power (Reiatsu) than the power of his flames.
3.) No? you cant use AP to erase something, its imposible plus as I said..Aizen is much weaker when the first time he arrive in Muken. He not out of Yama reach espesially when Gin can pirce Aizen with his Bankai when Gin himself is much weaker than him, and in bleach there are mutliple instace on how weaker char can damage stronger char and this is expesially true for Shinigami because they lack the defensive technique like Quncy and Arrancar. Plus another point is Mayuri can restrain his spiritual power even further with his technology, Further weakened Aizen defence.
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1.) And again, confirmation or no confirmation still doesnt at all mean that it isnt PIS/CIS. Thats what your not understanding here.
Also, you ignored my question. Refresh my memory please, it was said they never even attempted to kill Aizen?
2.) The problem is you can't confirm that without an official source that gives Muken an explicit size. And there is none. All we know about the Mukens size is that it stretches infinitely. That doesnt make it infinite. It can be any size one thinks of or guesses and it'd just be speculation. Without an exact size, it's an unquantifiably big space. So there's no arguing Yama can't destroy it with his Bankai because there's nothing proving it's size is beyond the scope of it.
And since they were planning on sealing Aizen away in it later on and still had uses for it, the SS wouldnt just let Yama do as he please and wreck it.
3.) Yes but thats not quite right. Yama clearly didnt want his fight with Yhwach going on much longer, so he would want to finish it up fast or else the SS would be destroyed with them both right then and there. Why would Yama beat around the bush on purpose once using Bankai?
4.) The problem is that his "heart" beating is what allows his Reiatsu to keep flowing. So why wouldnt destroying his heart do that? That is starting to sound a bit NLFish but it might not matter since, from what you said, they never even attempted to destroy Aizen.
Also, you ignored my question. Refresh my memory please, it was said they never even attempted to kill Aizen?
2.) The problem is you can't confirm that without an official source that gives Muken an explicit size. And there is none. All we know about the Mukens size is that it stretches infinitely. That doesnt make it infinite. It can be any size one thinks of or guesses and it'd just be speculation. Without an exact size, it's an unquantifiably big space. So there's no arguing Yama can't destroy it with his Bankai because there's nothing proving it's size is beyond the scope of it.
And since they were planning on sealing Aizen away in it later on and still had uses for it, the SS wouldnt just let Yama do as he please and wreck it.
3.) Yes but thats not quite right. Yama clearly didnt want his fight with Yhwach going on much longer, so he would want to finish it up fast or else the SS would be destroyed with them both right then and there. Why would Yama beat around the bush on purpose once using Bankai?
4.) The problem is that his "heart" beating is what allows his Reiatsu to keep flowing. So why wouldnt destroying his heart do that? That is starting to sound a bit NLFish but it might not matter since, from what you said, they never even attempted to destroy Aizen.
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Understandable, but the death of Rukia's sis is further proof to me. The Konpaku is in the spiritual world what a body of flesh and blood is in the real world. They eat, they sleep, they drink, they can bleed out and they can die if their organs are damaged. Despite being a soul, Rukia's sister has poor health and dies to illness. They can even give birth rather than just adopting the soul of some deceased shmuck somewhere in the other districts.
The other alternative is all the times we see bodies just lying around a fair bit after a fight and they, well, just remain there and never disappear. Otherwise, the cycle of soul transmigration makes no sense. The Konpaku acts in every way as a human body would yet we should expect it to disappear after unlike a real body?
The other alternative is all the times we see bodies just lying around a fair bit after a fight and they, well, just remain there and never disappear. Otherwise, the cycle of soul transmigration makes no sense. The Konpaku acts in every way as a human body would yet we should expect it to disappear after unlike a real body?
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No, but your hax can be limited to the scale of yours and the opponents AP, hence the "Power>Hax" fallacy and why some characters haxes have a weakness in them not being as effective against stronger opponents. It's not "using AP to hax your opponent", it's using AP to determine the scale of the hax and what it can affect. Only for haxes with that weakness though.MachTwo said:
And again, Aizen when he first arrived in Muken was High 6-A. The same tier as Yamamoto. For what Gin did, im pretty sure that is either an Outlier, PIS, or a sneak attack gone wrong as Gin needed to attack Aizen when least expecting it to try and get the Hyogoku.
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I'm not using anything mistranslated, you shouldn't make such accusations.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Why you're wrong here is because you're either not reading what the Converter actually does or just don't understand.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
It explicitly converts Kishi to Reishi. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less. The world of Soul Society is one of only Konpaku, Konpaku are made of Reishi, Reishi is just spiritual matter. We are already had a CRT involving the whole issue with Reishi, Kishi, Konpaku and Souls. The Konpaku is not the soul, it's the body of the soul. We even summarized it that Bleach's afterlife is pretty much a continuation of life. Your physical body that is made of Kishi just becomes a spiritual body made of Reishi.
Again, we already had CRTs going over this, one of them being the intangible thread where you were entirely confused since you used mistranslated scans.
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1.) I dont? they dont kill Aizen because nobody can kill him, Mayuri and urahara said this, so idk man
2.)>Official size for muke: This one?
And as I said..Muken can be Planet Size and Yama will still not completely destroy it. so again idk whats you point. because you Said Yama will destoy Muken if he try to use bankai..in reality he wont, he will only destoy a portion of muken and thats it.
Again. Mayuri and urahara has made this clear that they sealed and imprison Aizen in Muken becausee Nobody can kill him. its not their original plan to seal/imprison him if they can find a way to kill him.
>Yes but thats not quite right. Yama clearly didnt want his fight with Yhwach going on much longer, so he would want to finish it up fast or else the SS would be destroyed with them both right then and there. Why would Yama beat around the bush on purpose once using Bankai?
And what? It wont take long for Yama to bankai Aizen when he being sealed in 1 place, and since Yama bankai side effect is not instant, he have time to use bankai before his bankai will destroy a portion of muken. not like destroy a portion of muken will matter anyway.
3.)The problem is that his "heart" beating is what allows his Reiatsu to keep flowing. So why wouldnt destroying his heart do that?
Because a heart will stop beating if you destoy it? really? someone need to say this to you so you can realize how heart work in general? And as I said above..they can't destroy Aizen. simple as that.
4.) As I said above. you cant erase something with AP so you point is really invalid, plus Yama have durability negation in his profile because of this so you can make a CRT about this or leave
>Aizen when he first arrived in Muken was High 6-A.
So? what your point? he the same Tier as Yama bankai thus Yama should have no problem to kill him as even weaker char can hurt him
Btw you try to counter 3 of my point with PIS/CIS. Just saying.
2.)>Official size for muke: This one?
And as I said..Muken can be Planet Size and Yama will still not completely destroy it. so again idk whats you point. because you Said Yama will destoy Muken if he try to use bankai..in reality he wont, he will only destoy a portion of muken and thats it.
Again. Mayuri and urahara has made this clear that they sealed and imprison Aizen in Muken becausee Nobody can kill him. its not their original plan to seal/imprison him if they can find a way to kill him.
>Yes but thats not quite right. Yama clearly didnt want his fight with Yhwach going on much longer, so he would want to finish it up fast or else the SS would be destroyed with them both right then and there. Why would Yama beat around the bush on purpose once using Bankai?
And what? It wont take long for Yama to bankai Aizen when he being sealed in 1 place, and since Yama bankai side effect is not instant, he have time to use bankai before his bankai will destroy a portion of muken. not like destroy a portion of muken will matter anyway.
3.)The problem is that his "heart" beating is what allows his Reiatsu to keep flowing. So why wouldnt destroying his heart do that?
Because a heart will stop beating if you destoy it? really? someone need to say this to you so you can realize how heart work in general? And as I said above..they can't destroy Aizen. simple as that.
4.) As I said above. you cant erase something with AP so you point is really invalid, plus Yama have durability negation in his profile because of this so you can make a CRT about this or leave
>Aizen when he first arrived in Muken was High 6-A.
So? what your point? he the same Tier as Yama bankai thus Yama should have no problem to kill him as even weaker char can hurt him
Btw you try to counter 3 of my point with PIS/CIS. Just saying.
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Fair enough i'll have to say.I still have an issue with this principle of Konpaku being the containers for souls being applied to all Konpaku though. But it's getting late on my end so I'll just drop this point and take your word for it then.
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1.) Which, for the last time, has nothing to do with a feat being PIS/CIS in the end. And your still ignoring my question.
2.) Using a different scan now? Either way, "almost infinite" in size is just as or even more vague than the other one. There's no such thing as something "close" to infinite size. It's still very unquantifable in size.
>Planet size
Prove its actually bigger than what Yamamoto can affect or else its an irrelevant point to argue.
And no, Shunsui as you said planned to keep Aizen sealed away within the Muken, proving the SS has another purpose for it. They wouldnt just let Yama do as he please and destroy it just because hes in a mood to destroy Aizen.
3.) The "not take long to kill Aizen" part is literally irrelevant here and not part of my argument. I dont care if it takes long or not, my point has nothing to do with that. The point is Yama wouldnt do something so reckless in damaging Muken just to take out Aizen as the SS would clearly not agree with that. Also, no one said Yama's bankai is instant.
4.) Thats...not what this point is. Im asking why wouldnt they be able to stop the Reiatsu flow if they destroy his "heart"? His heart beating is what allows the reiatsu to flow. Destroy the heart = stopping it from flowing.
5.) The "AP erasing stuff" I already countered. Read the apply directly above Imades.
6.) Because of a sneak attack thats arguably PIS or an Outlier. Aizen would laugh off any attack from Gin head on. And by being in the same tier, its just as easy to argue Yama's E.E. wouldnt do crap.
2.) Using a different scan now? Either way, "almost infinite" in size is just as or even more vague than the other one. There's no such thing as something "close" to infinite size. It's still very unquantifable in size.
>Planet size
Prove its actually bigger than what Yamamoto can affect or else its an irrelevant point to argue.
And no, Shunsui as you said planned to keep Aizen sealed away within the Muken, proving the SS has another purpose for it. They wouldnt just let Yama do as he please and destroy it just because hes in a mood to destroy Aizen.
3.) The "not take long to kill Aizen" part is literally irrelevant here and not part of my argument. I dont care if it takes long or not, my point has nothing to do with that. The point is Yama wouldnt do something so reckless in damaging Muken just to take out Aizen as the SS would clearly not agree with that. Also, no one said Yama's bankai is instant.
4.) Thats...not what this point is. Im asking why wouldnt they be able to stop the Reiatsu flow if they destroy his "heart"? His heart beating is what allows the reiatsu to flow. Destroy the heart = stopping it from flowing.
5.) The "AP erasing stuff" I already countered. Read the apply directly above Imades.
6.) Because of a sneak attack thats arguably PIS or an Outlier. Aizen would laugh off any attack from Gin head on. And by being in the same tier, its just as easy to argue Yama's E.E. wouldnt do crap.
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Btw, you also ignored my point about Aizen still having Kyoka Suigetsu induced on Yama and the rest of the SS.
No matter how much he wants Aizen dead, Yama isn't stupid enough to walk in with a high-risk move like E.E. just to have Aizen glare and troll Yama into erasing someone else. Or lets say, the chair itself, to free Aizen from the Muken.
No matter how much he wants Aizen dead, Yama isn't stupid enough to walk in with a high-risk move like E.E. just to have Aizen glare and troll Yama into erasing someone else. Or lets say, the chair itself, to free Aizen from the Muken.
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What am I reading ƒÿ¡
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1.) Nope, Its not CIS when both mayuri and urahara has confirmed that nobody can kill him, Yama dont try to bankai him because he can't kill Aizen with bankai.
>And your still ignoring my question
I don't, i have answering your question above so idk man
2.) yeh its "almost infinite" which mean its really big, way more than the size of SS because no one ever use almost infinite/infinite to describe the size of SS, so yeah those statement does mean something. you just don't get it.
>Planet size
Read Yama Profile tbh, His range is several hundreds Kilometer, planet is way bigger than that..unless you want to upgrade his range, but that was topic for another CRT. plus by Yama own words..his bankai will only affect SS. So there you go, that is your answer
SS will use Muken yes..but judging by how big Muken is even if Yama destroy a portion of muken, it wont matter anyway as Muken still have alot of space left to be made into new Prison, and as said Above. Muken exist because SS cant kill several criminal in SS, they won't need Muken if they can kill these ppl in the first place.
3.) Yama damaging a portion of Muken is irrelevant because Muken so much bigger than his bankai range, plus SS wont need Muken if Yama can Kill immortal criminal in SS.
4.)Dunno, maybe because he didn't actually mean the actual heart but rather metaphysical heart? His regen come from reiatsu and his reiatsu come from his heart. Yet destroying his heart wont stop this, heck destroying his heart cant even Kill Ichigo in his hollow form, let alone Aizen.
5.) No you dont, you need more than AP to erase something so idk what you have counter
6.) Not really when we have multiple instances of weaker char can damage stonger char, as long as they not completely fodder.
You said himself, Yama in the same Tier as Aizen so idk what stopping him to EE him.
7.) I don't? my scans said nothing about KS, it said they cant kill Aizen because they can't kill Aizen. Plus SS is likely had no idea that Aizen can still use KS since for all they have know..His zanpakuto has been destroy by Mugetsu.
>And your still ignoring my question
I don't, i have answering your question above so idk man
2.) yeh its "almost infinite" which mean its really big, way more than the size of SS because no one ever use almost infinite/infinite to describe the size of SS, so yeah those statement does mean something. you just don't get it.
>Planet size
Read Yama Profile tbh, His range is several hundreds Kilometer, planet is way bigger than that..unless you want to upgrade his range, but that was topic for another CRT. plus by Yama own words..his bankai will only affect SS. So there you go, that is your answer
SS will use Muken yes..but judging by how big Muken is even if Yama destroy a portion of muken, it wont matter anyway as Muken still have alot of space left to be made into new Prison, and as said Above. Muken exist because SS cant kill several criminal in SS, they won't need Muken if they can kill these ppl in the first place.
3.) Yama damaging a portion of Muken is irrelevant because Muken so much bigger than his bankai range, plus SS wont need Muken if Yama can Kill immortal criminal in SS.
4.)Dunno, maybe because he didn't actually mean the actual heart but rather metaphysical heart? His regen come from reiatsu and his reiatsu come from his heart. Yet destroying his heart wont stop this, heck destroying his heart cant even Kill Ichigo in his hollow form, let alone Aizen.
5.) No you dont, you need more than AP to erase something so idk what you have counter
6.) Not really when we have multiple instances of weaker char can damage stonger char, as long as they not completely fodder.
You said himself, Yama in the same Tier as Aizen so idk what stopping him to EE him.
7.) I don't? my scans said nothing about KS, it said they cant kill Aizen because they can't kill Aizen. Plus SS is likely had no idea that Aizen can still use KS since for all they have know..His zanpakuto has been destroy by Mugetsu.
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1.) And again, I don't really care if they confirmed they can or can't kill him. It has nothing to do with an action in-series being subjected to PIS/CIS. Hell, you still didnt answer my question on if they said they never even attempted to destroy Aizen after 6 or so posts. You're flat out ignoring it.
In fact, if Yama didn't even Bankai him like you said, that means he's just assuming it won't work. Thats a fault on Yama's part instead of it working in Aizens favor. Hence why im suggesting it to be a PIS/CIS moment in the 1st place.
2.) That doenst counter this point whatsoever. You need to prove the Muken's size to bigger than that of Yama's range. So if Yamas range is that of hundred kilometers, you need to prove the Muken is beyond that in size. But its impossible to because the Muken doesnt have a quantifiable size. What is so hard to understand about this point?
3.) Again, enough of this "destroy portion of Muken" bit because you still havent proven the Muken is too big for Yama's bankai to destroy. It's a space with an unquantifable size that stretches endlessly. Thats it. There's no "remaking" it if the whole space is destroyed (not to mention its never established on how the Muken came to be in the 1st place, it's origins are unknown).
4.) Then like I mentioned above, that is starting to sound NLFish and honestly if Yama never even attempted to use his Bankais ability on Aizen, then it not being good enough to work on Aizen isn't even needed anymore. It's jut Yama assuming it wouldnt be enough at this point.
5.)......your literally not understanding this point. At All. I never said you needed more AP for a hax to work.
Im saying that if your hax's success rate is based on the level of power between yourself and your opponent, you need to make sure your hax is comparable to their level of power or else your hax's weakness will be too inferior to effect them. You keep misinterpreting this as the former. If this isn't clear enough then I don't know what else to say to you.
6.) Then those "instats" are either one of the following: Outliers, PIS, the opponent being a glass canon, or the user's power is as strong as them. The latter is definitely not true for Gin and Aizen isnt a glass canon.
7.) Except....the SS didnt know his Zanpakuto was destroyed. But even then, that'd make things even easier for Aizen as he'd literally be able to troll and manipulate them when they least expect it. Im sure none of them are that dumb to take chances with someone whos a master manipulator and crimminal.
In fact, if Yama didn't even Bankai him like you said, that means he's just assuming it won't work. Thats a fault on Yama's part instead of it working in Aizens favor. Hence why im suggesting it to be a PIS/CIS moment in the 1st place.
2.) That doenst counter this point whatsoever. You need to prove the Muken's size to bigger than that of Yama's range. So if Yamas range is that of hundred kilometers, you need to prove the Muken is beyond that in size. But its impossible to because the Muken doesnt have a quantifiable size. What is so hard to understand about this point?
3.) Again, enough of this "destroy portion of Muken" bit because you still havent proven the Muken is too big for Yama's bankai to destroy. It's a space with an unquantifable size that stretches endlessly. Thats it. There's no "remaking" it if the whole space is destroyed (not to mention its never established on how the Muken came to be in the 1st place, it's origins are unknown).
4.) Then like I mentioned above, that is starting to sound NLFish and honestly if Yama never even attempted to use his Bankais ability on Aizen, then it not being good enough to work on Aizen isn't even needed anymore. It's jut Yama assuming it wouldnt be enough at this point.
5.)......your literally not understanding this point. At All. I never said you needed more AP for a hax to work.
Im saying that if your hax's success rate is based on the level of power between yourself and your opponent, you need to make sure your hax is comparable to their level of power or else your hax's weakness will be too inferior to effect them. You keep misinterpreting this as the former. If this isn't clear enough then I don't know what else to say to you.
6.) Then those "instats" are either one of the following: Outliers, PIS, the opponent being a glass canon, or the user's power is as strong as them. The latter is definitely not true for Gin and Aizen isnt a glass canon.
7.) Except....the SS didnt know his Zanpakuto was destroyed. But even then, that'd make things even easier for Aizen as he'd literally be able to troll and manipulate them when they least expect it. Im sure none of them are that dumb to take chances with someone whos a master manipulator and crimminal.
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Whatever at this point, I gave my bit already and I need to go to sleep.
If the regen is downgraded, fine. If it stays, it stays. Good luck getting a conclusion for this.
If the regen is downgraded, fine. If it stays, it stays. Good luck getting a conclusion for this.
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1.) It is has something to do with it since we know why Yama cant Kill him, the answer is becasue he cant. And I always answer your question ever since 6 post ago. but you just flat out ignoring it.
As I said above, we have 2 smartest guy in SS say ppl in SS cant kill Aizen, and judging by Yama personally and his past action, He will deff Kill Aizen if he can.
2.) Because Muken has been stated to "almost infinite" or "Infinity" so It perfecly resasonaly to asume Muken is way bigger than SS since no one even use words almost infinite" or "Infinity when they describe SS size, in fact Yoruichi use 10 days statement to describe the size of SS, and I think "almost infinite" or "Infinity" is bigger than 10 days statement, so as you said idk what is so hard for you to understand about this point?
3.) Nope, because I have scans for this but you just dont get it, Yama will only destroy a portion of muken and thats it.
There's no "remaking" it if the whole space is destroyed
Hmmm..Yama cant destroy Space..plus it was not his EE ability who will destroy stuff around him, it was his Sun Armor and his Sun Armor can't erase stuff into nothingness
4.) Because 2 smartest guy in SS has confirm that they can't Kill Aizen, Plus Aizen is not the first Immortal in SS, there are several of them and SS lock them inMuken because they cant Kill them, with the same reason why they cant Kill Aizen
5.) Hmm? You said Yama are in the same Tier as Aizen do idk whats your point, plus as I said above, weaker char can damage stronger char and shinigami in general lack of defensive ability like Arrancar and Quincy, Aizen is deff not out of Yama Tier, heck If fodder Quincy(his letter is U) can still somewhat affect 5-C Aizen with his ability, I dont know what stopping Yama to Bankai Aizen into nothingness when his Bankai is clearly work on Yhwach.
6.) Ok but Aizen dont need to be Glass canon for Yama bankai to affect him, after all Yama bankai is hax, he even has durability negation in his profile
7.) Except....They know? you dont think they wont get that info from urahara, ichigo or even by seing that he dont have any Zanpakuto anymore? And KS literally doesn't matter because Aizen being lock and sealed in 1 place, if he can fools them to that extent then they will never have the capability to lock him in muken in the first place.
As I said above, we have 2 smartest guy in SS say ppl in SS cant kill Aizen, and judging by Yama personally and his past action, He will deff Kill Aizen if he can.
2.) Because Muken has been stated to "almost infinite" or "Infinity" so It perfecly resasonaly to asume Muken is way bigger than SS since no one even use words almost infinite" or "Infinity when they describe SS size, in fact Yoruichi use 10 days statement to describe the size of SS, and I think "almost infinite" or "Infinity" is bigger than 10 days statement, so as you said idk what is so hard for you to understand about this point?
3.) Nope, because I have scans for this but you just dont get it, Yama will only destroy a portion of muken and thats it.
There's no "remaking" it if the whole space is destroyed
Hmmm..Yama cant destroy Space..plus it was not his EE ability who will destroy stuff around him, it was his Sun Armor and his Sun Armor can't erase stuff into nothingness
4.) Because 2 smartest guy in SS has confirm that they can't Kill Aizen, Plus Aizen is not the first Immortal in SS, there are several of them and SS lock them inMuken because they cant Kill them, with the same reason why they cant Kill Aizen
5.) Hmm? You said Yama are in the same Tier as Aizen do idk whats your point, plus as I said above, weaker char can damage stronger char and shinigami in general lack of defensive ability like Arrancar and Quincy, Aizen is deff not out of Yama Tier, heck If fodder Quincy(his letter is U) can still somewhat affect 5-C Aizen with his ability, I dont know what stopping Yama to Bankai Aizen into nothingness when his Bankai is clearly work on Yhwach.
6.) Ok but Aizen dont need to be Glass canon for Yama bankai to affect him, after all Yama bankai is hax, he even has durability negation in his profile
7.) Except....They know? you dont think they wont get that info from urahara, ichigo or even by seing that he dont have any Zanpakuto anymore? And KS literally doesn't matter because Aizen being lock and sealed in 1 place, if he can fools them to that extent then they will never have the capability to lock him in muken in the first place.
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I have no idea what the discussion between you two is, but now that the matter regarding the Hogyoku no longer being in EoS Aizen was cleared, the reveal of EoS Aizen's Regenerationn stemming from his Soul, the fact that Konpaku are Spiritual Bodies and Mugetsu completely eradicates the Konpaku what is the argument supporting the downgrade? At this time all the support for the downgrade seem null.
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