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Aizen regen downgrade
- Thread starter Theglassman12
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- bleach sosuke aizen
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I ignored your post about the novel because it contradicted what was shown in the Manga, which is Aizen getting sealed by a Kido from Urahara. That what visually happened.
> I love this right here,you just admitting to ignoring evidence because it doesn't fit what you think it going on.The novels is a canon continuation and your talking about contradictions? do you even know what was contradicted? literally nothing.It simply adds more detail to the bigger picture of what really happened.
My conclusion is based on the fact that the disintegration effect around his wings is because he lost his wings when the Hogyoku rejected him.
>So now the Hogyoku disintegrated his wings? based off what.This is equivalent to fan fiction right here because nothing implies this at all.Not once was this ever hinted,your simply trying to find an interpertation that suits you argument.
Urahara literally stated that the reason the Kido worked is that Ichigo weakened him, I gave you a scan from the manga. He did not get stronger.
>Again you ignore context and look at one piece of evidence instead of all.Mugetsu weakened him yes and Aizen was still evolving to a similar state Ichigo was just in,or should we ignore his Zanpaktou crumbling away?
Also saying he didn't get strong literally means nothing,becuase he was stated in the Thousand Year Blood War Arc he got stronger in the months he was bounded to a chair in Muken.What your doing here is ignoring evidence.
> I love this right here,you just admitting to ignoring evidence because it doesn't fit what you think it going on.The novels is a canon continuation and your talking about contradictions? do you even know what was contradicted? literally nothing.It simply adds more detail to the bigger picture of what really happened.
My conclusion is based on the fact that the disintegration effect around his wings is because he lost his wings when the Hogyoku rejected him.
>So now the Hogyoku disintegrated his wings? based off what.This is equivalent to fan fiction right here because nothing implies this at all.Not once was this ever hinted,your simply trying to find an interpertation that suits you argument.
Urahara literally stated that the reason the Kido worked is that Ichigo weakened him, I gave you a scan from the manga. He did not get stronger.
>Again you ignore context and look at one piece of evidence instead of all.Mugetsu weakened him yes and Aizen was still evolving to a similar state Ichigo was just in,or should we ignore his Zanpaktou crumbling away?
Also saying he didn't get strong literally means nothing,becuase he was stated in the Thousand Year Blood War Arc he got stronger in the months he was bounded to a chair in Muken.What your doing here is ignoring evidence.
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Well for staters Aizen is in his God Form not his Buttefly form.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
What makes sense to you doesn't matter compared to what we are shown which is this.After Mugetsu he reverted to this form but before his evoultion was complete he was stopped by Kisuke because this is when he is most vulnerable.
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>God formSigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Wow. Thoughtt that was just a mutated butterfly Aizen but oh well lol.
Anywho, what does it matter if you show me that? Your seriously telling me that Aizen would purposely revert to a form much weaker than the one who Mugetsu was making mence meat out of?
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@Sigurd Snake in The Eye
1. Because every story is completely consistent and doesn't have contradictions. You said that the novel implies that Aizen wasn't sealed by Urahara's Kido, which is directly shown to us in the Manga, so I assumed it was a contradiction.
2. The Hogyoku rejected him. It devolved him and turned his appearance back into his Shinigami state. That's what was what happened. That's what was shown to us. Assuming the disintegration of the wings is because he was reverting back his Shinigami state isn't FanFiction, it's the logical assumption of what happened.
Saying he regenerated a completely new body from his Reiatsu when he still had the same injury that Ichigo gave him sounds more like FanFiction to me.
3. He got stronger passively over the two years he was locked away in the Muken, not in that scene because he was stated to have gotten weak enough for the Kido to affect him, and was in the state of devolving.
Just because Aizen's sword disappeared, doesn't mean Aizen was right about it being because of the Hogyoku or about how his power was growing to match Ichigo's, especially since he was then sealed only seconds after he made that statement. Indicating he was wrong about his strength.
Aizen was wrong about the Hogyoku and his own power the entire time he was in his evolved state, he clearly didn't know what he was talking about.
1. Because every story is completely consistent and doesn't have contradictions. You said that the novel implies that Aizen wasn't sealed by Urahara's Kido, which is directly shown to us in the Manga, so I assumed it was a contradiction.
2. The Hogyoku rejected him. It devolved him and turned his appearance back into his Shinigami state. That's what was what happened. That's what was shown to us. Assuming the disintegration of the wings is because he was reverting back his Shinigami state isn't FanFiction, it's the logical assumption of what happened.
Saying he regenerated a completely new body from his Reiatsu when he still had the same injury that Ichigo gave him sounds more like FanFiction to me.
3. He got stronger passively over the two years he was locked away in the Muken, not in that scene because he was stated to have gotten weak enough for the Kido to affect him, and was in the state of devolving.
Just because Aizen's sword disappeared, doesn't mean Aizen was right about it being because of the Hogyoku or about how his power was growing to match Ichigo's, especially since he was then sealed only seconds after he made that statement. Indicating he was wrong about his strength.
Aizen was wrong about the Hogyoku and his own power the entire time he was in his evolved state, he clearly didn't know what he was talking about.
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1. Because every story is completely consistent and doesn't have contradictions. You said that the novel implies that Aizen wasn't sealed by Urahara's Kido, which is directly shown to us in the Manga, so I assumed it was a contradiction.
This is about Bleach not a general view of fictional series consistency,Indeed it was implied alot more was going in that scene then what was shown.Kisuke silenced Aura from explaining any further because Hisagi was around,and he doesn't need to know such things.There isn't a contradiction it's simply expanded upon because the original plan was to give Ichigo the Hogyoku.
2. The Hogyoku rejected him. It devolved him and turned his appearance back into his Shinigami state. That's what was what happened. That's what was shown to us. Assuming the disintegration of the wings is because he was reverting back his Shinigami state isn't FanFiction, it's the logical assumption of what happened.
Or maybe just maybe,he was disintegrated by Mugetsu because we clearly see the effects of disintegration on panel as he becomes fully enveloped by Mugetsu.Unless you think only a portion of his body that was completely envolved by Mugetsu was actually effected.
3. He got stronger passively over the two years he was locked away in the Muken, not in that scene because he was stated to have gotten weak enough for the Kido to affect him, and was in the state of devolving.
That was the start of it,and we don't know how long it took him to get that strong because no one has visited him in Muken during the entire time of his incarceration.
Just because Aizen's sword disappeared, doesn't mean Aizen was right about it being because of the Hogyoku or about how his power was growing to match Ichigo's, especially since he was then sealed only seconds after he made that statement.
Sigh..except it does because he states that the Hogyoku made a decision that he no longer needed a blade implying he is becoming his Ichigo which is one with his Zanpakuto.And later when Yhwach went to visit him in Muken Aizen had very mild effects on him and he placed Yhwach under it.
Aizen was wrong about the Hogyoku and his own power the entire time he was in his evolved state, he clearly didn't know what he was talking about.
He wasn't wrong at all,just because he was arrogant doesn't mean he was wrong at all lol..In fact he was completely right the entire time in all his rambling about the Soul King.
This is about Bleach not a general view of fictional series consistency,Indeed it was implied alot more was going in that scene then what was shown.Kisuke silenced Aura from explaining any further because Hisagi was around,and he doesn't need to know such things.There isn't a contradiction it's simply expanded upon because the original plan was to give Ichigo the Hogyoku.
2. The Hogyoku rejected him. It devolved him and turned his appearance back into his Shinigami state. That's what was what happened. That's what was shown to us. Assuming the disintegration of the wings is because he was reverting back his Shinigami state isn't FanFiction, it's the logical assumption of what happened.
Or maybe just maybe,he was disintegrated by Mugetsu because we clearly see the effects of disintegration on panel as he becomes fully enveloped by Mugetsu.Unless you think only a portion of his body that was completely envolved by Mugetsu was actually effected.
3. He got stronger passively over the two years he was locked away in the Muken, not in that scene because he was stated to have gotten weak enough for the Kido to affect him, and was in the state of devolving.
That was the start of it,and we don't know how long it took him to get that strong because no one has visited him in Muken during the entire time of his incarceration.
Just because Aizen's sword disappeared, doesn't mean Aizen was right about it being because of the Hogyoku or about how his power was growing to match Ichigo's, especially since he was then sealed only seconds after he made that statement.
Sigh..except it does because he states that the Hogyoku made a decision that he no longer needed a blade implying he is becoming his Ichigo which is one with his Zanpakuto.And later when Yhwach went to visit him in Muken Aizen had very mild effects on him and he placed Yhwach under it.
Aizen was wrong about the Hogyoku and his own power the entire time he was in his evolved state, he clearly didn't know what he was talking about.
He wasn't wrong at all,just because he was arrogant doesn't mean he was wrong at all lol..In fact he was completely right the entire time in all his rambling about the Soul King.
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the chapters there, clearly show that he was being disintigrated, the attack was still underway, not showing the full disintigration =/= not being disintigrated. And as mentioned above, the anime just showed the full disintigration. And if they had any way, of desposing aizen, then they would've done so.
I disagree with the downgrade
I disagree with the downgrade
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1. You stated that the Novel stated that Aizen wasn't sealed by Kido, which is what clearly happened in the Manga and would be a contradiction if what you said was true about the novel.
If what you said wasn't true, and Aizen was still stated to be sealed by Kido in the novel so it doesn't contradict the manga, then why bring it up in the first place and why say that it did?
2. Which doesn't make sense considering he still was bisected when he came out of the smoke, which implies he didn't regenerate his body from no physical (or Spiritual in this case) matter like you say he did.
If he did regenerate from no matter, then he shouldn't still have the same injury. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
He couldn't have regenerated from disintegration (or erasure) if the primary wound (the bisection) never regenerated until after Mugetsu was over. He didn't regenerate off-screen.
3. He got stronger during his incarceration for two years, likely a slow build-up the whole time he was there.
He, however, did NOT get stronger after being hurt by Mugetsu as he was explicitly said to have gotten weaker, that's why he was sealed and devolved.
4 & 5.
He wasn't wrong?
Let's go over all the incorrect assumptions Aizen made, shall we?
Aizen thought the plateau that was vaporized was because of his sword and power.
It wasn't, it was Ichigo's.
He believed that Ichigo gave up his Spiritual Energy for a purely Physical Enhancement.
He didn't, he was just on a higher level of power than Aizen.
Aizen believed he was evolving again because of the Hogyoku and would reach a level of power that wouldn't just match the FGT, but surpass it.
The Hogyoku rejects him seconds later as he is shown to have actually devolved back into his Shinigami state and was immediately sealed in Urahara's Kido because he actually got WEAKER, not stronger like he thought.
Every single one of Aizen's theories since he evolved was wrong. He didn't know what he was talking about as he was dealing with things beyond his understanding.
Anyway, I got to go for the night.
Got school.
Good Night, @everyone.
If what you said wasn't true, and Aizen was still stated to be sealed by Kido in the novel so it doesn't contradict the manga, then why bring it up in the first place and why say that it did?
2. Which doesn't make sense considering he still was bisected when he came out of the smoke, which implies he didn't regenerate his body from no physical (or Spiritual in this case) matter like you say he did.
If he did regenerate from no matter, then he shouldn't still have the same injury. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
He couldn't have regenerated from disintegration (or erasure) if the primary wound (the bisection) never regenerated until after Mugetsu was over. He didn't regenerate off-screen.
3. He got stronger during his incarceration for two years, likely a slow build-up the whole time he was there.
He, however, did NOT get stronger after being hurt by Mugetsu as he was explicitly said to have gotten weaker, that's why he was sealed and devolved.
4 & 5.
He wasn't wrong?
Let's go over all the incorrect assumptions Aizen made, shall we?
Aizen thought the plateau that was vaporized was because of his sword and power.
It wasn't, it was Ichigo's.
He believed that Ichigo gave up his Spiritual Energy for a purely Physical Enhancement.
He didn't, he was just on a higher level of power than Aizen.
Aizen believed he was evolving again because of the Hogyoku and would reach a level of power that wouldn't just match the FGT, but surpass it.
The Hogyoku rejects him seconds later as he is shown to have actually devolved back into his Shinigami state and was immediately sealed in Urahara's Kido because he actually got WEAKER, not stronger like he thought.
Every single one of Aizen's theories since he evolved was wrong. He didn't know what he was talking about as he was dealing with things beyond his understanding.
Anyway, I got to go for the night.
Got school.
Good Night, @everyone.
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Just going to say thats....not how this works.JaBitte said:
If its not fully shown, then you can't speculate that it was complete disintegration. Like Matt said, the anime does not matter here when the manga completely goes against that and shows a very big part of his body still intact.
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I agree with the OP here; though Regenerationn from being Bisected in two I heard was Mid; severe torso damage is Low-Mid regen though.
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Again, isnt Yama supposed to be a threat to the Soul Society itself when he uses his Bankai?
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Yamamoto is the guy who willing to sacrifice half of Gotei 13 captain and vice captain and himself just so he can Kill Aizen, Logically nothing will stop him to Bankai Aizen into nothingness when Aizen has been sealed In Muken. Yet he didn't do it because it's impossible for SS to kill Aizen, and this is not my words by it is Both Uraharaand Mayuriwords
I dont want to respond to the other guy who clearly had not read my post above.
I dont want to respond to the other guy who clearly had not read my post above.
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I agree with the OP here.
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I hardly doubt Yama was actually in the mood of producing sacrificial lambs just so he could take down 1 guy. One can't sacrifice 10 people to save 12 when the overall result is less than the worth.
Either way, thats not answering my question Mach.
Either way, thats not answering my question Mach.
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Where in your reply was this question answered?ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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I disagree with the op since when being cut in half change the entire body even also where did wings gone if he was cut in half
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Theres actually a few issues with the Muken bit.
1.) CIS (Character In-Duced Stupidity) is a possibility here. That or just some PIS factored in. Given Aizen's involvement later on in the TYBW arc, it's clear Kubo wanted him to be a key factor in helping Ichigo and the SS defeat Yhwach's quincies (be honest, without Aizen Yhwach wouldve won in the end).
2.) The Muken itself is not infinite in size. The only thing its stated to be is infinitely stretch, which is a big difference between being already infinite. Just like how the universe stretches on for infinity but its certainly still at finite sizes. Or how for a reason we don't upgrade verses that have infinitely expanding universes to 2-A because its just endless 2-B. The number of universes will never actually be infinite as a whole, just at endlessly finite numbers. But thats beside the point.
Point is, the Muken is just a space with an unquantifiable size. It's not infinite. So whats exactly stopping me from saying Yama would be scared his Bankai would destroy the Muken itself?
3.) Not being able to erase someone from existence doesnt automatically mean the target has Mid-Godly Regen. It can also mean they just have resistance to the hax (I mean I doubt Aizen would be resistant to E.E. but take this with grains of salt). And unlike erasure abilities that are pure hax, Yamamoto's Bankai erases stuff via his Zanpakuto's immense power/flames. The flames would likely have to be stronger than Aizen in order for it to actually erase him.
4.) This may be stretching things, but according to your scan the Muken is supposed to be a space of "nothingness" yes? If so, depending on how literal this is, that would mean the Muken is devoided of any air yes? Which.....flames need in order to actually be ignited? If this space has no air, it would be the worst place for Yamamoto to be since his abilities would be literally useless as fire can't be used in places without air to ignite them and since we're talking about a world involving spiritual beings, it's no stretch to say they don't need air to breathe on as they're....souls.
Not to mention, Kenpachi later on didn't instantly lose breathe when Gremmy BFR'd him to an area in outer space.
Thats my take for the Muken bit.
1.) CIS (Character In-Duced Stupidity) is a possibility here. That or just some PIS factored in. Given Aizen's involvement later on in the TYBW arc, it's clear Kubo wanted him to be a key factor in helping Ichigo and the SS defeat Yhwach's quincies (be honest, without Aizen Yhwach wouldve won in the end).
2.) The Muken itself is not infinite in size. The only thing its stated to be is infinitely stretch, which is a big difference between being already infinite. Just like how the universe stretches on for infinity but its certainly still at finite sizes. Or how for a reason we don't upgrade verses that have infinitely expanding universes to 2-A because its just endless 2-B. The number of universes will never actually be infinite as a whole, just at endlessly finite numbers. But thats beside the point.
Point is, the Muken is just a space with an unquantifiable size. It's not infinite. So whats exactly stopping me from saying Yama would be scared his Bankai would destroy the Muken itself?
3.) Not being able to erase someone from existence doesnt automatically mean the target has Mid-Godly Regen. It can also mean they just have resistance to the hax (I mean I doubt Aizen would be resistant to E.E. but take this with grains of salt). And unlike erasure abilities that are pure hax, Yamamoto's Bankai erases stuff via his Zanpakuto's immense power/flames. The flames would likely have to be stronger than Aizen in order for it to actually erase him.
4.) This may be stretching things, but according to your scan the Muken is supposed to be a space of "nothingness" yes? If so, depending on how literal this is, that would mean the Muken is devoided of any air yes? Which.....flames need in order to actually be ignited? If this space has no air, it would be the worst place for Yamamoto to be since his abilities would be literally useless as fire can't be used in places without air to ignite them and since we're talking about a world involving spiritual beings, it's no stretch to say they don't need air to breathe on as they're....souls.
Not to mention, Kenpachi later on didn't instantly lose breathe when Gremmy BFR'd him to an area in outer space.
Thats my take for the Muken bit.
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What's the argument for those supporting the downgrade at the moment?
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Not sure.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
All im arguing against atm is the Muken bit from Mach.
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Yeah, I don't understand how people are agreeing with the downgrade when it's been brought several times in this thread that Aizen's Regenerationn stems from his Reiatsu being produced as described in the final arc. Reiatsu is a product of Reiryoku and Reiryoku is a product of your soul. You need to destroy the soul to stop Aizen's Regenerationn. Destroying the body doesn't stop Reiatsu. The body is the Konpaku and Konpaku have the actual soul in them.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The reason Mugetsu is brought up is because it has the property of completel eradication of the Konpaku.
I don't see a solid stance for the downgrade and especially users agreeing with the OP.
The OP makes the mistake of not realizing Mugetsu's properties and the larger mistake of thinking that Aizen's Regenerationn is dependent on the Hogyoku when it's explained to us later at a point Aizen no longer had the Hogyoku (plus the fact that EoS Aizen is superior to Hogyoku Aizen).
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1.)Too much unreasonable assumption since Yama deff want to kill him and even willing to safcrime himself
2.) Your point is invalid because Both kenpachi use Muken so they can rampage as much as they want without fear of affecting the outside world, Aizen himself in being lock in Muken so Muken need to be pretty big or else Aizen can just brute force through muken, remember this is the guy who will shot Soul king palace with his reiatsu alone and even overpowering Yhwach black eyed thing who has overrun the whole Soul society. Even shunsui has plan to permanently seal Muken with Aizen trap in there in case if he try to Kill him and escape. Heck Yama himself said this He won't instantly destroy SS with his bankai.
3.) Mayuri has made this clear, they cannot kill him because they cant stop his heart from beating(as you have aware destroying Aizen heart won't stop this) so its not because Aizen has resistant to Yama EE, but more like he can regen from it
4)Yama Bankai does not produce any flames. Not even Zanka no Tachi, Nishi
2.) Your point is invalid because Both kenpachi use Muken so they can rampage as much as they want without fear of affecting the outside world, Aizen himself in being lock in Muken so Muken need to be pretty big or else Aizen can just brute force through muken, remember this is the guy who will shot Soul king palace with his reiatsu alone and even overpowering Yhwach black eyed thing who has overrun the whole Soul society. Even shunsui has plan to permanently seal Muken with Aizen trap in there in case if he try to Kill him and escape. Heck Yama himself said this He won't instantly destroy SS with his bankai.
3.) Mayuri has made this clear, they cannot kill him because they cant stop his heart from beating(as you have aware destroying Aizen heart won't stop this) so its not because Aizen has resistant to Yama EE, but more like he can regen from it
4)Yama Bankai does not produce any flames. Not even Zanka no Tachi, Nishi
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Does Aizen still have the Hogyoku in the final arc?
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- #160
it's never implied that he had the hogyoku in the final arc.
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