Ainz vs Rimuru (LN)

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Leaning even harder on incon as it seems he has to activate that speed amp and hes not garenteed to do it as his first move. This is a fight thats decided in the first move, and both characters have the potential to win, neither is liable to go for there hax before talking.

 

[Elizhaa]

"Grasp heart" won't kill Rimuru because he doesn't have a heart or organs since all it cells are the same because his true body a slime which gave him Inorganic Physiology (Type 1)

Received. The body of a slime consists of a mass of completely identical cells. Each individual cell may function as a brain cell, a nerve cell, or a muscle cell. Since the operational cells used for thought are rotated in and out at regular intervals, there is no need for you to sleep.
	~ That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime, Vol. 1 : CHAPTER 1​

Momonga reached out an empty hand and cast his spell. "[Grasp Heart]." This spell was one that crushed a foe's heart, and among the ten tiers of spells, it was an instant death spell of the 9th tier. Many of the necromantic spells which Momonga was adept with possessed instant death properties, and this was one of them. Momonga had chosen to open with this spell because even if it was resisted, the spell would still temporarily stun his opponent. If the spell had been resisted, his plan was to take the two girls and jump back into the still open [Gate]. He had already planned his route of retreat since he was not sure what his opponents could do. However, it would seem those preparations would not be necessary. A feeling of something soft crushing beneath Momonga's fingers travelled up his arm, and the knight collapsed silently to the ground. Momonga looked down upon the fallen knight. It would seem that even killing someone did not stir any emotions within him. There was no guilt, fear or confusion in his heart, which was like the surface of a calm lake. Why was it like this?
	~ Overlord - Volume 1 - Chapter 3​

 

[Elizhaa]

I am leaning for Rimuru since Grasp Heart should not kill him.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

This has alread been discussed the instant death effect of grasp heart has no bearing on the opponnet having a heart.

 

[Elizhaa]

This has alread been discussed the instant death effect of grasp heart has no bearing on the opponnet having a heart.

Where was that?

The novel suggest it should so it count.

Likewise, it could easily be this form of Death Manipulation: The method varies, however; some users may halt vital biological processes.

I don't like the idea of coming with an effect that clearly contradicted the mechanism of an ability.

 

[NeoSuperior]

It doesn't even matter because Rimuru's advantage in AP means his Magic Resistance skill and Magic Control will completely nullify Grasp Heart, including the secondary stun effect, anyway.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

He doesn't get death resistance with higher ap. Not how death hax are treated on this site. Stil sitting on incon, even assuming grasp heart doesn't work (the community here seems sure it will but Im not an expert) AInz could also open with one of his multiple other death spells/despair aura. This is definitly incon for me with a slight leaning in slimes favor if grasp heart fail.

 

[Doomrider7]

With regards to the Thought Accelerate buff, I don't know what the activation speed is, but I'd venture to say instant or close to it(On/Off Switch style) since the times he needs it that's how it seems to work. With regards to this fight, he'd turn it on the instant he sensed or saw Ainz I think since either Great Sage would recognize him as a hostile threat or Rimuru would based on his clear appearance as a Lich.

 

[Elizhaa]

He doesn't get death resistance with higher ap. Not how death hax are treated on this site. Stil sitting on incon, even assuming grasp heart doesn't work (the community here seems sure it will but Im not an expert) AInz could also open with one of his multiple other death spells/despair aura. This is definitly incon for me with a slight leaning in slimes favor if grasp heart fail.

No, all Death Manipulation are treated by the wiki on a case by case basis by its mechanism shown. Ainz's case looks to require biological organs for Grasp heart.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Really everything ive heard thus far leads me to believ slime is willing to gob. Ehh im done with this my final vote fra is incon.

This whole thread is a mess.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Where was that?

The novel suggest it should so it count.

Likewise, it could easily be this form of Death Manipulation: The method varies, however; some users may halt vital biological processes.

I don't like the idea of coming with an effect that clearly contradicted the mechanism of an ability.

Grasp Heart destroys the enemy heart but ALSO induces the instant death effect to the target

And this spell also works on things that doesnt have a heart

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Its biological manip, Death manip anf status effect inducement all at the same time

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

But if the target doesnt have a heart, only the death hax kicks in

 

[Elizhaa]

Really everything ive heard thus far leads me to believ slime is willing to gob. Ehh im done with this my final vote fra is incon.

This whole thread is a mess.

What is gobb?

When Rimuru is willing to kill, he does. Near, the end of his first key, he become more neutral and less naive with choosing fighting. So, any that he views an enemy; he will strive to kill at his best with no mercy.

I want us to act like a mirror for these people—those who bare their fangs against us will themselves be punished; those who extend a hand will be amply rewarded for it.
	~ That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime, Vol. 5 : CHAPTER 4​

He shortly killed about 20,000 people after this point.

Standard Battle Assumptions

• State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.
  Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.

The vote based on Grasp Heart looks inacurrate here since Rimuru got Magic Resistance where Grasp Heart required Magic , Inorganic Physiology (Type 1) that prevent organ failures, and passive Forcefield Creation that protect him from both magic and attacks unless got the AP to bypassed the effects.

It seems like a stomp for Rimuru.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

As I said, GH works on things that doesnt have a heart

 

[NeoSuperior]

Well, incon would be the "safe" choice. And with "safe" I mean that it would not result in endless back and forth for hundreds of replies. I mean there are some points I can see gaps for like how much of Ainz' deathhax is treated like that it supposedly got innate 4D spacehax just for "hitting the target directly" and ignores any sort of obstacles like forcefields.

By the way, this is NOT a vote.

 

[Elizhaa]

As I said, GH works on things that doesnt have a heart

Where?

 

[Elizhaa]

Well, incon would be the "safe" choice. And with "safe" I mean that it would not result in endless back and forth for hundreds of replies. I mean there are some points I can see gaps for like how much of Ainz' deathhax is treated like that it supposedly got innate 4D spacehax just for "hitting the target directly" and ignores any sort of obstacles like forcefields.
By the way, this is NOT a vote.

4D space hax seem to going to far. Space Hax is a maybe from death mechanism. In any case, Rimuru doesn't have organs to be targeted directly.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I was being sarcastic about the fact that some people seem to treat Grasp Heart's trait of "directly affecting the target" as if it was almighty and could ignore any obstacles even if those obstacles can obstruct spacehax.

 

[GLHF22]

This is a stomp in Rimuru favor, close this

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I cant close it on my own. Call a mod to do this

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Is it really a stomp?

 

[GLHF22]

Rimuru now Resist death manip

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Papa bones has nothing else he could win with?

 

[GLHF22]

If he not bloodlusted No

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Well, there is Tgoliad but I think he couldnt even have a chance to properly use

 

[GLHF22]

Yes, but i don't think he have a chance to use it

 

[Dragopentling]

Unless Rimuru somehow sits there and lets Ainz go TGOALID, then no, Ainz has no feasible chance of winning.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well that's unfortunate.

Would a certain Primordial Daemon be more fair i wonder.

I can imagine Mr #1 Butler being like:

"Kufufufufu, how weak. You are too weak. You wish to challenge Rimuru sama with such pathetic power? I alone will be enough for you"

 

[GLHF22]

XD i think that don't change really much since Diablo after get name equal to pre demon lord Rimuru

 

[OpMasada]

why doesn't diablo have death resis

 

[GLHF22]

Let them rest a little, they have to edit 30+ character

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@GLHF22 I think Diablo is stronger than Pre Demon Lord Rimuru.

Demon lord breed opponents like Sages are like children to him, and he causally beat the celestial sages who are superior to Sages.

It was revealed that Hinata wasn't going all out against Rimuru so i don't know about scaling him to her, but yea if we do they would be around the same level scaling wise i think.

@Op He does.

 

[NeoSuperior]

why doesn't diablo have death resis

Not sure what you are talking about. He got it at the end of his profile (first key).

 

[GLHF22]

@CP

Hinata use her strongest attack though

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Which Rimuru died to, or more accurately his clone did.

Anyway not really the place to discuss this.

 

[OpMasada]

why doesn't diablo have death resis

Not sure what you are talking about. He got it at the end of his profile (first key).

Oh, didn't see it.

 

[GLHF22]

Which Rimuru died to, or more accurately his clone did.

Anyway not really the place to discuss this.

No, thats just Raphael troll him, he can just regenerate from melt slash

 

[NeoSuperior]

CP is talking about their first fight.

GLHF22 is talking about their second fight.

And this is all off-topic.

 

[GLHF22]

Oh yeah XD just small misunderstanding