Adventure Time, Prismo and GOLB/GOLBetty's Profiles Rework (Need Staff)

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This would still break R>F rules, as it would allow an unreal character to become real, which isn't a thing. In addition the book which exist independently is different universes should all also be unreal.

It can be a thing if the higher entity makes them reality but in this case it'd just be pure headcanon he makes someone more real since there's nothing alluding to so or even suggesting anything like it.

 

[Aolphl]

Prismo is still within the confines of the multiverse as described in rather explicit detail. Meaning that there is no upper reality to be present.

I can't get to the scan, but I think it contains Booko's explanations. Booko said:

Hello, my name is Booko! What you see here is a map of the multiverse! It shows all the known dimensions and the links between each of them. This is the dimension that contains the universe in which we currently reside. At the center of the multiverse is a dimension called the Time Room, believed to be the quasi-corporeal dwelling place of the almighty Prismo. The Time Room is the single dimension that exists outside of time. The Time Room produces time waves that are experienced by other dimensions. Some dimensions have permanent links that allow travel to and from. Others become linked temporarily by naturally forming Worm Holes. And others can become linked artificially by magical portals, torn open by items of great power. Once the last gem is inserted into the Enchiridion it will have the power to create a portal to any dimension in the multiverse. An activated portal creates a time dilation in which either end of the portal experiences a temporal synchronization allowing for the safe passage of particles through a non-local region of spacetime.

As Booko also stated, the Time Room, unlike other universes, is outside of time and spreads time to other dimensions. Also, Prismo describes the Time Room as the place where he constantly watches the Multiverse on his TV. So yes, this place is different from other dimensions. In addition, the Time Room has always been depicted as a higher dimensional place (I haven't been able to find the scan yet).

This would still break R>F rules, as it would allow an unreal character to become real, which isn't a thing. In addition the book which exist independently is different universes should all also be unreal.

Excuse me, there is not exactly a sharp between the lower reality and the upper reality. Ultima said by seeing this:

• Can lesser existences unexplainedly interact or potentially interact with the higher existences, on their own, without any external (Or otherwise anomalous) assistance at play?

It also still means that beings in the lower reality and the upper reality can interact with each other under certain conditions. But the key point here is: being in the lower reality doing it out of need of any external help or is he doing it of his own free will. If a character in a low reality wanted to interact randomly and managed to do so, then this would be wrong. But here the Prismo, that is, the person who is in the upper reality, interacts with them by doing certain things. But if I have to point out that at the end of everything, if there is literally no yield from this, I have one last proposal as well.

The Dreamer is required for Prismo to exist. It's a reliance that doesn't work if Prismo was more real than everyone else.

I will answer by assuming that the person you mean here is an Old Man. Ok. The Old Man does not consider Prismo to be fiction in the fullest sense. Because, if he thought Prismo was fiction, he would have to have a certain control over it. I mean, just like Prismo controls the Farmworld Universe, the Old Man should have controlled Prismo that way. But so after the Old Man wakes up, he is not aware of anything, he is not aware that he created Prismo with his sleep, he does not remember anything. When he saw the Lich after waking up, he said: "Are you my son?" said. Considering that Prismo knows about the Lich and considers the Lich to be fiction, the Old Man should have known about the Lich as well. If you ask me, the Old Man does not consider Prismo to be fiction, he only created Prismo because he was sleeping. There's nothing else.
.
And please tag KingTempest here, because he is a defender of this verse, what he has to say here will also be effective.

 

[Aolphl]

It can be a thing if the higher entity makes them reality but in this case it'd just be pure headcanon he makes someone more real since there's nothing alluding to so or even suggesting anything like it.

There's something about this. If my current proposals are rejected, I will make a final proposal.

 

[Qawsedf234]

As Booko also stated, the Time Room, unlike other universes, is outside of time and spreads time to other dimensions

Key point is that being outside of time =/= outside of space. Physically it exists within the confines of the multiverse as a spatial realm.

. Also, Prismo describes the Time Room as the place where he constantly watches the Multiverse on his TV

Doesn't mean anything other than maybe cosmic awareness. Prismo is not seeing them as fictional but as a view port into their existence.

Excuse me, there is not exactly a sharp between the lower reality and the upper reality. Ultima said by seeing this:

Ultima said in both the 1-A CRT and the Tier 0 CRT that the factor of unrealness is a hard qualifier for the new R>F stuff and the current R>F stuff still requires there to be an element of separation. Neither are present with Prismo.

The Old Man does not consider Prismo to be fiction in the fullest sense.

You missed my point. The issue is that Prisml relies on a lower dimensional being to exist, meaning he can't be more real than them.

And please tag KingTempest here, because he is a defender of this verse, what he has to say here will also be effective.

I can call them here but it changes nothing about my stance. This isn't a Low 1-C justification. @KingTempest

If my current proposals are rejected, I will make a final proposal.

Just make it now. Why withhold evidence if you believe it's valid?

 

[KingTempest]

...this really isn't Low 1-C, or at least prismo isn't. This isn't too valid.

When I heard Low 1-C I thought you meant the comic stuff. This isn't good enough

 

[Aolphl]

Key point is that being outside of time =/= outside of space. Physically it exists within the confines of the multiverse as a spatial realm.

But this is a completely separate point from the Multiverse. Things that happen in the Multiverse do not happen here and do not affect Prismo and the Time Room. So after Prismo destroyed all life in the multiverse, he said something like to Finn and Jake who were in the Time Room: "You are still alive because you are here in the Time Room". And I was just going through what was implied to be a higher dimension of the Time Room, as opposed to the normal multiverse, but I couldn't find it. I'll share it when I find it.
Also, why exactly does the fact that it's spatial pose a problem? wouldn't a character who sees a 4-dimensional universe as fiction naturally be a higher-dimensional place than the place where he is located, the place that is seen as fiction?

Doesn't mean anything other than maybe cosmic awareness. Prismo is not seeing them as fictional but as a view port into their existence.

I mean, what exactly? Prismo is here watching them from the fourth wall, where we, the audience, are watching all the time. He watches them fictionally because there is a "Canonicity/Non-Canonicity" of these universes. Cut, copy, paste on them as if it were a video. Each of them has its own intros and drawing style and a specific story. The interactions of beings in the universes are called "Crossover", as we humans call them in the fictions we watch. What I want to emphasize is that Prismo is aware that these universes are a "Cartoon/movie/Tv show", just as a person watches these universes knowing that what he is watching is a "Cartoon/movie/Tv show", in the same way Prismo is aware that these universes he is watching are a "Cartoon/movie/Tv show".

You missed my point. The issue is that Prisml relies on a lower dimensional being to exist, meaning he can't be more real than them.

I don't understand who exactly you mean here. Is the being you mean here, the Old Man, or is it another being?

Just make it now. Why withhold evidence if you believe it's valid?

I will make this proposal, but what I want to understand here is exactly for what reason you are opposed to it. Your reason for opposing this: is it because these characters, which Prismo considers fictional, are as "real" as itself? If that's the case, I can make my proposal.

 

[Aolphl]

When I heard Low 1-C I thought you meant the comic stuff.

That wouldn't be possible because Adam Muto says that comics are Non-Canon.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But this is a completely separate point from the Multiverse.

All dimensions are naturally seperated. It's still within the physical boundaries of the multiverse.

So after Prismo destroyed all life in the multiverse, he said something like to Finn and Jake who were in the Time Room: "You are still alive because you are here in the Time Room".

Yes, they're alive because they're is a seperate dimension compared to the rest of the multiverse. One that also operates on a different time scale.

Also, why exactly does the fact that it's spatial pose a problem? wouldn't a character who sees a 4-dimensional universe as fiction naturally be a higher-dimensional place than the place where he is located, the place that is seen as fiction?

Something lacking proper time just means events progress in a non-linear fashion, but the physical dimensions are still identical to the rest of the multiverse.

Prismo's zone may lack Time, but still operates within the confines of the multiverse.

fiction naturally be a higher-dimensional place than the place where he is located, the place that is seen as fiction?

That would only work of the place itself was also physical seperate and above the multiverse, which it isn't.

Prismo is here watching them from the fourth wall, where we, the audience, are watching all the time.

He's watching them in-universe on a TV due to his cosmic awareness. That's not the same as viewing them as fictional entities.

He watches them fictionally because there is a "Canonicity/Non-Canonicity" of these universes

Canon just means what's the truth of that universe. Viewing something as true or not true isn't the same as viewing them as fictional. All those things are real from Prismo's PoV, just lower in power.

don't understand who exactly you mean here.

If there isn't a person who dreams, then Prismo cannot exist. His being relies on a lower dimensional creature dreaming him, which is an automatic disqualification for R>F.

Your reason for opposing this: is it because these characters, which Prismo considers fictional, are as "real" as itself?

I think the main issue here is that you're taking the TV scenes to much at face value. Prismo exists within the multiverse as a cosmic entity and isn't more real than anyone else. Just generally stronger.

 

[KingTempest]

That wouldn't be possible because Adam Muto says that comics are Non-Canon.

Not all of them are non canon, only the "Season 11" stuff is non canon

 

[Aolphl]

I'm taking my last breaths on the stretcher right now.

All dimensions are naturally seperated. It's still within the physical boundaries of the multiverse.

It is within the boundaries of the multiverse, but it has a different structure from all the other dimensions in the multiverse. This is not an extension of any universe in the multiverse or a structure connected to a universe. It's more like a Pocket Reality here. Although it looks like a small structure from the outside, it is a very complex structure inside. Yes, it is spatial, and most likely a higher-dimensional structure, but it does not have a universal structure. Also, why exactly is it a problem to be located within the boundaries of the multiverse? A being needs to use the Enchiradion in order for a being to get here, unlike other universes. This again proves that this place has a different structure from other universes in the multiverse.

Yes, they're alive because they're is a seperate dimension compared to the rest of the multiverse. One that also operates on a different time scale.

Yes, that's exactly what I want to emphasize. This is a special structure that is different from other ordinary universes.

Something lacking proper time just means events progress in a non-linear fashion, but the physical dimensions are still identical to the rest of the multiverse.

However and however, this is not a universe compared to the universes in the multiverse, but a structure whose exact nature is unknown. The things that Booko said can make sense here. Booko said:

Hello, my name is Booko! What you see here is a map of the multiverse! It shows all the known dimensions and the links between each of them. This is the dimension that contains the universe in which we currently reside. At the center of the multiverse is a dimension called the Time Room, believed to be the quasi-corporeal dwelling place of the almighty Prismo. The Time Room is the single dimension that exists outside of time. The Time Room produces time waves that are experienced by other dimensions. Some dimensions have permanent links that allow travel to and from. Others become linked temporarily by naturally forming Worm Holes. And others can become linked artificially by magical portals, torn open by items of great power. Once the last gem is inserted into the Enchiridion it will have the power to create a portal to any dimension in the multiverse. An activated portal creates a time dilation in which either end of the portal experiences a temporal synchronization allowing for the safe passage of particles through a non-local region of spacetime.

That would only work of the place itself was also physical seperate and above the multiverse, which it isn't.

In fact, this is happening, the place where people who work for the so-called Boss reside is located in a different place from the multiverse. And almost most of the people who work for the so-called Boss will have this R>F situation, because those who are there have a similar status at some point.

He's watching them in-universe on a TV due to his cosmic awareness. That's not the same as viewing them as fictional entities.

Canon just means what's the truth of that universe. Viewing something as true or not true isn't the same as viewing them as fictional. All those things are real from Prismo's PoV, just lower in power.

But, but... It doesn't make much sense to evaluate them like this, because both the arguments you answer and the arguments you don't answer are intertwined. Don't get me wrong pls. But ignoring the issue of "Canonicity" does not respond to the "Crossovers" argument, because these two are intertwined arguments and things that complement each other. Or ignoring the argument that "Prismo watches the multiverse on his TV" does not respond to the argument that each of these universes has its own intros, drawing style and stories, because these arguments are all intertwined things. In the same way, Prismo trivializes these universes so much when creating a universe that it calls "Character Programming" when creating these universes. And again, it trivializes them so much that when controlling these universes, it makes them "cut, copy, paste" in the same way that it makes a video "cut, copy, paste". All these are arguments that from Prismo's point of view, every single universe in the multiverse is a "Cartoon".

If there isn't a person who dreams, then Prismo cannot exist. His being relies on a lower dimensional creature dreaming him, which is an automatic disqualification for R>F.

Again Old Man problem... What exactly makes you think that way? So that's exactly why you think "Old Man, it's lower dimensional than Prismo". Considering that Prismo is the product of an Old Man's dream, doesn't the Old Man directly make a higher dimensional being than Prismo?

I think the main issue here is that you're taking the TV scenes to much at face value. Prismo exists within the multiverse as a cosmic entity and isn't more real than anyone else. Just generally stronger.

I don't know exactly how I should respond to this. There's something, and the fact that I'm the only one seeing it is either a sign that I have a very strong imagination, or it's just a sign that I'm crazy. But whatever... I've been banging my head for this for months, and I've spent a lot of time trying to build this whole "Multiverse is a Cartoon through the eyes of Prismo" system. It would really upset me that this was rejected for several different simple reasons. I assume that the current problems are these two:

1. Time Room's place
2. Old Man

 

[Aolphl]

Not all of them are non canon, only the "Season 11" stuff is non canon

Does this mean that we can use pre-season 11 comics as Canon?

 

[KingTempest]

Does this mean that we can use pre-season 11 comics as Canon?

No, but we can use the things that fit in the series pre-season 11 as canon, aka not everything

This is a good guide

Addendum: List of Adventure Time media

A list of every piece of Adventure Time media that has been considered for use in the timeline.

atchronology.com

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with the argument of @Qawsedf234, this doesn't seem like low 1-C to me.

 

[Aolphl]

No, but we can use the things that fit in the series pre-season 11 as canon, aka not everything

This is a good guide

Addendum: List of Adventure Time media

A list of every piece of Adventure Time media that has been considered for use in the timeline.

atchronology.com

Well, that sounds like something that might help. Adventure Time is a really long series and it's hard to get a full scale out about it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Another huge disqualifier for an already unsubstantiated tier 1 is Scarab dude who rocked Prismos shit and is portrayed just as real or big as any other normal 3 dimensional character.

There's also no established mechanic for characters becoming more real or uncountably infinitely larger who go to the time room nor is it suggested in any way.

 

[Eseseso]

Maybe save the Low 1-C for another thread so that the profile revisions can go through?

 

[Aolphl]

Another huge disqualifier for an already unsubstantiated tier 1 is Scarab dude who rocked Prismos shit and is portrayed just as real or big as any other normal 3 dimensional character.

Plot-Induced Stupidity

Plot-Induced Stupidity, or PIS for short, is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot. For example, if a generally competent, intelligent villain does something stupid like not killing the hero immediately when he has...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Character-Induced Stupidity

Character-Induced Stupidity, or CIS for short, refers to the mental limits of a character that cause them to perform at below the true potential of their powers. The term is somewhat of a misnomer, since it refers to more than just stupidity - it could also refer to a character's unawareness...

vsbattles.fandom.com

There's also no established mechanic for characters becoming more real or uncountably infinitely larger who go to the time room nor is it suggested in any way.

I still have an proposal about this, but I haven't submitted this proposal at the moment because there are some things that are being discussed that are different from what you're talking about.

Maybe save the Low 1-C for another thread so that the profile revisions can go through?

It is a fact that even if the R>F proposal is rejected here, the profiles will be fixed. Because the profiles that will be affected are in an extremely terrible state and this needs to be fixed.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Plot-Induced Stupidity

Plot-Induced Stupidity, or PIS for short, is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot. For example, if a generally competent, intelligent villain does something stupid like not killing the hero immediately when he has...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Character-Induced Stupidity

Character-Induced Stupidity, or CIS for short, refers to the mental limits of a character that cause them to perform at below the true potential of their powers. The term is somewhat of a misnomer, since it refers to more than just stupidity - it could also refer to a character's unawareness...

vsbattles.fandom.com

And none of these apply here especially when Mr. Scarab dude is the guy who's suppose to keep dudes like Prismo in check. These characters just never had R>F in first place and waving these pages around doesn't really help you much or solve any contradictions to your proposal.

 

[Aolphl]

And none of these apply here especially when Mr. Scarab dude is the guy who's suppose to keep dudes like Prismo in check. These characters just never had R>F in first place and waving these pages around doesn't really help you much or solve any contradictions to your proposal.

All right, I'll submit my final offer about this tomorrow, I'm very sleepy right now, and my sleep at school wasn't enough for me. The problems between Mr. Scarab and Prismo need to be resolved.

 

[Qawsedf234]

. Also, why exactly is it a problem to be located within the boundaries of the multiverse?

Because it means it exists within the same level as anything else. It's not more real or a higher level.

A being needs to use the Enchiradion in order for a being to get here, unlike other universes.

Barring time waves making linkages between realms you also need the Enchiradion to travel between dimensions. So that's not a point for it, it just means it acts like the other dimensions.

Yes, that's exactly what I want to emphasize. This is a special structure that is different from other ordinary universes.

You're missing the point there. Prismo's world is in the multiverse on the same level as anything else. What makes it special is that it produces time, but spatially its not superior.

However and however, this is not a universe compared to the universes in the multiverse, but a structure whose exact nature is unknown. The things that Booko said can make sense here.

Quasi-corporeal just means it's not fully physical, that doesn't make it higher dimensional.

And almost most of the people who work for the so-called Boss will have this R>F situation, because those who are there have a similar status at some point.

There would be no R>F, as stated in the text you quote all the Enchiradion does is make artifical wormholes to other dimensions. It doesn't make you more real or give you any direct power.

And again, it trivializes them so much that when controlling these universes, it makes them "cut, copy, paste" in the same way that it makes a video "cut, copy, paste". All these are arguments that from Prismo's point of view, every single universe in the multiverse is a "Cartoon".

The core issue is that you're taking trivialize as being more real rather than just more powerful. Prismo being Tier 2 gives him the ability to do everything you mention, having cosmic awareness gives him the ability to see everything you mentioned and neither indicate that Prismo has R>F. He's stronger but that doesn't make him R>F over a 4th dimensional structure.

doesn't the Old Man directly make a higher dimensional being than Prismo?

No, because the Old Man is just someone sleeping on a bed and Jake was the Old Man in one iteration. It doesn't require a higher dimensional being to do, so Primso being reliant on it is an automatic disqualification.

It would really upset me that this was rejected for several different simple reasons. I assume that the current problems are these two:

The current issue is that Primso can accomplish all his feats while not being R>F over the multiverse, the Time Room isn't beyond the multiverse, and the Old Man he's reliant on from existing can be any creature that sleeps on the bed.

I'm against this full stop. I don't see a valid justification for Low 1-C for this character.

 

[Sasukesama0492]

Because it means it exists within the same level as anything else. It's not more real or a higher level.

So, what do you think about Hax and Speed?

 

[Aolphl]

Because it means it exists within the same level as anything else. It's not more real or a higher level.

Barring time waves making linkages between realms you also need the Enchiradion to travel between dimensions. So that's not a point for it, it just means it acts like the other dimensions.

You're missing the point there. Prismo's world is in the multiverse on the same level as anything else. What makes it special is that it produces time, but spatially its not superior.

Quasi-corporeal just means it's not fully physical, that doesn't make it higher dimensional.

Would this problem be solved if it were proved that the Time Room is a higher dimensional structure? For example, if the universes in the multiverse were four-dimensional and the Time Room were five-dimensional, would this problem be solved?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would this problem be solved if it were proved that the Time Room is a higher dimensional structure? For example, if the universes in the multiverse were four-dimensional and the Time Room were five-dimensional, would this problem be solved?

If the Time Room was five dimensional then the scaling would have to involving creating or destroying the entirety of the time-room.

 

[Sasukesama0492]

Bump

 

[Sasukesama0492]

Bump

 

[Aolphl]

Bump

This Crt needs to continue, yes. The R>F topic has been shelved a little, yes, but haxs, speed and Lifting Strengths still need to be evaluated.

If the Time Room was five dimensional then the scaling would have to involving creating or destroying the entirety of the time-room.

Although I have a few ideas to save R>F, I'm not going to do it right now. Can you evaluate the remaining things?

 

[Aolphl]

Maybe save the Low 1-C for another thread so that the profile revisions can go through?

I guess I'll do it. Revising the profiles was not on the agenda because R>F was being discussed here. I'll wait a little longer, if any staff comes and doesn't indicate anything about revising the profiles, it would be best to close this one and open a new one.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can you evaluate the remaining things?

Just glancing I don't see any problems with the listed powers and abilities.

 

[Aolphl]

Just glancing I don't see any problems with the listed powers and abilities.

Thank you for expressing your opinion. Just to be sure, I'm asking, you accept speed, right?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thank you for expressing your opinion. Just to be sure, I'm asking, you accept speed, right?

Not really. It seems more in relation to his time powers than 1:1 speed.

 

[Aolphl]

Not really. It seems more in relation to his time powers than 1:1 speed.

If I need to explain this, from Prismo's point of view, time is perceived as a simple tool/a straight line that he can click and use. In other words, it actually perceives the Temporal Dimension as if it were a Spatial Dimension. As it is written in the FAQ, Perceiving the Temporal Dimension as if it were a Spatial Dimension is an feat of Immeasurable Speed.

They can qualify for Immeasurable Speed, however, if the regular dimension of time appears like a spatial dimension from their higher dimensional perspective. That is to say, that it can freely be traversed both forward and backwards, allowing them to access any point in it and move unbound by the notions of time inherent to the lower space. An example of this are the Bulk Beings from Interstellar.

To give an example from the Wiki, The Animator from Looney Tunes would be a good example of this. The things Prismo and Animator do are exactly the same.

 

[Qawsedf234]

To give an example from the Wiki, The Animator from Looney Tunes would be a good example of this. The things Prismo and Animator do are exactly the same.

If they count then I guess Prismo would, even if thar causes questionable speed scaling for the verse.

 

[Aolphl]

If they count then I guess Prismo would

I assume you accept the speed.

even if thar causes questionable speed scaling for the verse.

Currently, no characters (except GOLB and Enchiradion) are scaling to this. I don't know, unless I decide to do something for cosmology in the future or find reliable statements about scaling characters to Prismo's speed, any characters won't scale to Immeasurable Speed for now.

 

[Aolphl]

No, but we can use the things that fit in the series pre-season 11 as canon, aka not everything

This is a good guide

Addendum: List of Adventure Time media

A list of every piece of Adventure Time media that has been considered for use in the timeline.

atchronology.com

We talked about almost everything with Qawsedf. Can you state your opinion for the completion of this Crt?

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

 

[Aolphl]

No, but we can use the things that fit in the series pre-season 11 as canon, aka not everything

This is a good guide

Addendum: List of Adventure Time media

A list of every piece of Adventure Time media that has been considered for use in the timeline.

atchronology.com

Can you give your opinion about things other than R>F?

 

[KingTempest]

I disagree with the speed

 

[Aolphl]

I disagree with the speed

Why?

 

[Sasukesama0492]

I disagree with the speed

Why?

 

[RatherClueless]

Why am I always late to thes things?

Anyway, first of all, let me say, nobody likes line cutters. Does this mean I am salty someone else made the first RFT besides me? Yes, absolutely.

I digress. Skimmed through it, disagree with a lot of these things and will comment later when I have more time to catch up on what's been argued so far. Commenting so I won't forget.

Now I need to figure out a way to finish my CRT before the cat has finished applying the revisions while also debating here . . .