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Adventure Time Low 2-C downgrade revision

RatherClueless

RatherClueless

1,885
475
After 2 different CRTs (previous CRT) we have finally come to the point of trying to apply the changes.

Summary:

Accepted: Low 2-C is exaggerated and unjustified and has to be removed.

Reasons: The debate was mostly about Orgalorg absorbing the Catalyst Comet, which would grant him and characters that scale to him the tier of Low 2-C. However, since Orgalorg never managed to absorb said comet, the reason becomes invalid.

Not/partially accepted: Tier 5 seems to stay, but will get an additional "varies" rating, since it is fairly inconsistent. However, this should be saved for a different CRT.

Characters that are affected: Finn the Human, Fern (Adventure Time), Hunson Abadeer, Orgalorg

The Characters will go back to Tier 5. Finn and Fern will scale to Orgalorg's "At least 5-C, likely 5-A" and so will Hunson. Orgalorgs "The Catalyst Comet's essence absorbed" key should be removed, since he never properly did that.

Possibly affected: Martin Mertens (Since the statements the comet made were fairly vague and "new mode of existance", as well as "going to the beginning and the end" =/= AP)

I am not sure who he would scale to if he was changed. If he doesn't have any special feats he'd likely just be 10-A (or maybe compare to Farmworld Finn, since he is just a "normal" human too) or so, but I leave that up for debate.

Something I noticed on the side: Magic Ma is 2-C for creating M.A.R.G.L.E.S who and I quote "fended off GOLB", however, the second coming of GOLB never happened. On top of that, if he compared to M.A.R.G.L.E.S, why didn't he, Glob or the King of Mars do it themselves? They all scale to Magic Man.

Someone should also add Matthew (Adventure Time) and Demon Cat to the verse page.

The Adventure Time verse needs a massive revision regardless, since there are profiles like the Vampire King who have abilities like "Transmutation (Turned Princess Hot Dog's guards into octopuses by stepping into them)", which is just ridiculous, since he just squashed them and turned them into octopus sausages, which is supposed to be a joke. Other characters like Susan Strong aren't even up to date with their tiering.

Any further input and ideas are appreciated.
 
Huh. I thought we already agreed on this.

Can we also discuss the validity of the Tier 5 ratings here, too? I can copy + paste what I had to say on the matter on the other thread.
 
This is highlighted but there isn't really any way for me to help because I don't know the series, so...
 
Well, this isn't ideal, but AT is a prominent series with very unreliable ratings, and we really need to get this revision finally done.
 
I agree with most of this. Tier 5 should also be discussed. As for the reason why most people disagree such as WeeklyBattles and Darkanine and other users.
 
I personally disagree with many of the tier 5 reasons, but yes, that goes into a new/different CRT, just to make sure we get the low 2-C stuff finally done.
 
Help from experienced members with carrying out these revisions would be very appreciated.
 
Low 2-C can be removed. Honestly I'm not for the 5-A tier either but that's for another time.
 
Ok Low 2-C is agreed by everyone to go. So it can go then?

Yeah honestly. I'm not going to be arguing for Tier 5 anymore. It's too tedious and I think the side for against Tier 5 makes more sense reading over the arguments.

The main one being the Lich scaling to the Guardians who scale to a Nameless Alien that destroyed a planet. I disagree with the arguments against the calc but you can make arguments against why the Guardians should scale in the first place and arguments against the Lich scaling when he killed them with special black fire that presumably induces death. Clueless makes good cases against this.

The Orgalorg statements are shaky and the other arguments are shaky at best. So yeah I disagree with it now. On top of that Finn himself scaling would be inconsistent as hell considering all his other low-end feats. As I said before it'd make more sense to scale him to other monsters he's fought rather than dubious cosmic beings who can be scaled to multiple different tiers depending on the interpretation.
 
So are any experienced editors who know Adventure Time willing to perform the revisions, and in what manner should they be carried out?
 
It has been extremely hard to get any help for this revision.
 
Give me the profiles to edit and I'll downgrade them when I get the chance (soonest would probably be 6 to 6:30 PM EST).
 
Thank you very much for the help.

Is somebody willing to help out by finding and linking to ALL of the relevant profiles here?
 
Since we had Finn scale to Orgalorg, it should be "At least 5-C, likely 5-A", but since many profiles are outdated, I am not sure whats the "most recent" tier. I dont think you'll do anything wrong with "At least 5-C, likely 5-A" though.
 
Thank you very much for helping out.

I would appreciate if others who know Adventure Time well could verify that the edits are correct.

Also, should we use this thread to continue to discuss the statistics ratings for the verse?
 
not sure if orgalorgs 3rd key should stay (probably not). Finn still has universal dura. Thats all I could find.

I guess this thread could be used to debate future changes to the verse (since its in quite the need for that anyways, even if we disregard tiering).
 
My bad, Finn's images and multiple similar keys threw me off when I was editing the profile. So I just overlooked it.
 
Glad to see the downgrade from Tier 2 is finally done with!

I do still have a problem with one profile, though. Why is Post-Dark-Cloud Marcy not given a separate key rated as At Least 5-C, Likely 5-A? She is clearly WAY more powerful than Finn, who currently is rated as such, and in fact is likely top-tier given the beatdown she gave to one of Golb's monsters. If we've given Finn such a tier, then we obviously should do so for Marcy as well.

So when should we be expecting the next CRT in which further discussion will take place regarding Tier 5 being valid or not? I for one am with the camp saying that I find the Tier 5 ratings suspect in many cases, especially Finn's case.
 
I suppose that the above post seems to make sense.
 
@Goody

"Also, should we use this thread to continue to discuss the statistics ratings for the verse?"

"I guess this thread could be used to debate future changes to the verse (since its in quite the need for that anyways, even if we disregard tiering)."

I can change/add to the op if needed. If people think a seperate CRT is needed, I can do that too.
 
We can probably continue to talk here, as this thread is not very long yet.
 
well, for the tier 5 stuff we would need to look at consistant feats to replace the current rating with and then clean it up back to front.
 
The Tier 5 stuff is honestly just from

  • Ice King calcs
  • Scaling to cosmic beings (which we decided against last thread)
And I think we determined the Tier 5 Ice King feat doesn't really apply since the crown itself did the feat and Ice King shows nothing remotely close to that in the main series. What other Tier 5 feats do we need to evaluate?
 
Not sure, but I think the elemantals have a T5 feat too, but that's via transmutation/bio manip. I'd have to look though

Edit: nvm, it's T6. It only says in the profiles "planetary, scales to this feat", which is kind of an issue on its own. One thing is it to give over the top tiers, but if you do, you should at least give the right reasoning/scaling.
 
I think that Dargoo makes sense.

What else can we more reliably scale the characters from?
 
We would need to look into it, but there are feats of Finn kicking over large monsters, using a tree as a sword, casually carrying a massive rock over his head or surviving a house blowing up on him. Most of them are usually mid tier 9 to mid tier 8.
 
There is also Jake's tier 5 feat, however:

1. It's foreshortening

2. The planet was assumed to be the size of Pluto, even though it's always shown to be way smaller than that (including the scan that was used for the calc)

Charlie has also a tier 5 feat for growing in size, but she rly shouldn't scale to anyone and wether that's usable AP is a completely different issue all together
 
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