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Hm, i will make this more fair.
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Adult Naruto And Sasuke And Guy and Kakashi Vs Augus
- Thread starter Dannysayan
- Start date
- Status
- 764
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- Thread starter
- #42
Made this more fair.
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YungManzi said:
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The brain statement is contradicted by Kurama being genjutsu'd while being sealed and the chakra statement is contradicted by IT, so that entire statement made by Jiraiya is unreliable(Which is where people get the whole "You can only use genjutsu on people who have chakra/people who have a brain" thing from)
ABoogieYesSir
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Damn than, Sasuke and Naruto gets rekt unless if they can seal Augus.
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YungManzi
KURAMA IS PURE CHAKRA...
DO YOU WATCH NARUTO?!?!?
KURAMA IS PURE CHAKRA...
DO YOU WATCH NARUTO?!?!?
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"Are the nine titanic LIVING FORMS OF CHAKRA"
HE IS LITERALLY MADE OF IT
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To Genjutsu a Biju isn't even a Genjutsu feat, but a ******* chakra Manipulation feat-- because I don't think they have organs, or a central nervous system, and they're MADE of Chakra. How can you use Genjutsu to manipulate the nervous system of something that doesn't have a nervous system to our knowledge? Augus STOMPS. They can't even seal him without him breaking out of the Chibaku Tensei.
We also know that Augus' Durability is massively beyond anything they can do. They do have Souls, as they have an afterlife in Naraka, but good luck on getting through anything that he does because of that high reaction and combat speed.
We also know that Augus' Durability is massively beyond anything they can do. They do have Souls, as they have an afterlife in Naraka, but good luck on getting through anything that he does because of that high reaction and combat speed.
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Kurama has a physical body...
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The way they describe Occular genjutsu in the databooks is that it has nothing to do with the opponents Chakra but only eye sight.
However since Augus is blind it still makes it useless.
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@Celestial
Re-read what I typed.
"The brain statement is contradicted by Kurama being genjutsu'd while being sealed and the chakra statement is contradicted by IT"
Even if you argue that Kurama has a brain in his physical form, he was genjutsu'd when he was sealed inside of Kushina and existed as a mass of chakra inside of it's host (Which disproves the brain statement). In other words, he didn't have a physical brain at that time but he was still mind haxxed by Obito.
And the chakra thing is blatantly contradicted by IT.
Since the statement that Jiraiya makes is contradicted more than once, it's logical to believe that this was a retcon.
-Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established facts in a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.
To be fair to Jiraiya and Kishimoto-Sensei, everyone had chakra at the time Jiraiya made that statement and it's entirely possible he just didn't know what he was talking about.
Re-read what I typed.
"The brain statement is contradicted by Kurama being genjutsu'd while being sealed and the chakra statement is contradicted by IT"
Even if you argue that Kurama has a brain in his physical form, he was genjutsu'd when he was sealed inside of Kushina and existed as a mass of chakra inside of it's host (Which disproves the brain statement). In other words, he didn't have a physical brain at that time but he was still mind haxxed by Obito.
And the chakra thing is blatantly contradicted by IT.
Since the statement that Jiraiya makes is contradicted more than once, it's logical to believe that this was a retcon.
-Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established facts in a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.
To be fair to Jiraiya and Kishimoto-Sensei, everyone had chakra at the time Jiraiya made that statement and it's entirely possible he just didn't know what he was talking about.
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YungManzi
He can clearly still use his brain while still being sealed in Naruto.... it may not be in he same form as a humanoids but it's still a brain.
I never said they had to have both Chakra and a Brain.
Visual Genjutsu works because when the opponents eye looks at the Sharingan it literally affects their brain.
Which is again useless because Augus is blind.
He can clearly still use his brain while still being sealed in Naruto.... it may not be in he same form as a humanoids but it's still a brain.
I never said they had to have both Chakra and a Brain.
Visual Genjutsu works because when the opponents eye looks at the Sharingan it literally affects their brain.
Which is again useless because Augus is blind.
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@Celestial
"He can clearly still use his brain while still being sealed in Naruto.... it may not be in he same form as a humanoids but it's still a brain."
He was a Non-Corporeal spirit....So, no. He didn't have a brain and we know he didn't have a brain.
"I never said they had to have both Chakra and a Brain."
You never said that, but the statement that you point to when trying to make your point is contradicted in both points.
1)By the fact that there are genjustu that can affect people without chakra.
2)By the fact that there are genjustu that can affect charcters who don't even have a physical body, and only exist as a mass of chakra.
At that point, why should we take anything involving that statement seriosly?
"He can clearly still use his brain while still being sealed in Naruto.... it may not be in he same form as a humanoids but it's still a brain."
He was a Non-Corporeal spirit....So, no. He didn't have a brain and we know he didn't have a brain.
"I never said they had to have both Chakra and a Brain."
You never said that, but the statement that you point to when trying to make your point is contradicted in both points.
1)By the fact that there are genjustu that can affect people without chakra.
2)By the fact that there are genjustu that can affect charcters who don't even have a physical body, and only exist as a mass of chakra.
At that point, why should we take anything involving that statement seriosly?
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If you have either a brain or chakra you can be genjutsu'd..
Each genjutsu works differently. Theres a reason they are separated into different Categories
Occular Genjutsu Sound Genjutsu Nature Manipulation Genjutsu
You are literally trying to lump all of them into on category in which they all work the same way. That's a no no and if you actually watched Naruto they told you the differences.
Also they explain the differences in the Databook.
Each genjutsu works differently. Theres a reason they are separated into different Categories
Occular Genjutsu Sound Genjutsu Nature Manipulation Genjutsu
You are literally trying to lump all of them into on category in which they all work the same way. That's a no no and if you actually watched Naruto they told you the differences.
Also they explain the differences in the Databook.
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@Celestial
Everything, you mentioned is exactly what I am talking about, that was all retconned.
The first time Jiraiya talks about genjutsu, he doesn't make any distictions when talking about it. He lumps it all together.
Like I said, Kurama didn't have a brain and still got genjutsu'd and it still contradicts all explanatations for occular genjutsu.
The only explaination for genjutsu mind hax we ever get is controling the brain, but that is contradicted along with the controlling chakra thing.
Everything, you mentioned is exactly what I am talking about, that was all retconned.
The first time Jiraiya talks about genjutsu, he doesn't make any distictions when talking about it. He lumps it all together.
Like I said, Kurama didn't have a brain and still got genjutsu'd and it still contradicts all explanatations for occular genjutsu.
The only explaination for genjutsu mind hax we ever get is controling the brain, but that is contradicted along with the controlling chakra thing.
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The idea that Kurama has a brain already makes assumptions. For all we know, he could just be a lump of chakra that feels like meat and muscle. We haven't seen the internal organs of every Biju and some of them are made of sand or ink or whatever. Point is, Celestial, you can't prove that Biju have organs. Plz stop insulting my guy Manzi when you're the one who doesn't have his facts straight.
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Anyone with a sharingan can see Kurama inside someone. So if Kurama can see exactly what Naruto see or Sasuke would just have to look at Kurama to genjutsu him.
Which literally goes along the lines of Occular genjutsu.
Amexim I'm not talking to you. Who are you?
Which literally goes along the lines of Occular genjutsu.
Amexim I'm not talking to you. Who are you?
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Didn't Kinkaku and Ginkaku survive in his stomach by eating his stomach lining and Naruto slapped Son Goku's throat to get the chakra rod? And even though they're made of Chakra they physically look, feel and move around like animals. It's safe to say they have brainsAmexim said:
Honestly this thread is going to shit and getting too hostile
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They're normally made of chakra, but they are shown to have physical bodies as well. It's like they can turn it on and off or something.
I don't know about someone like Shukaku though. He's made of sand, and he was no-diffed by Sasuke's genjutsu.
I don't know about someone like Shukaku though. He's made of sand, and he was no-diffed by Sasuke's genjutsu.
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Oh right. Oof, good on you HST, I forgot about that. Then, yeah, the Physical bodies of Biju may have brains. But you are pretty hostile Celestial. Rude of you to shout "you don't watch the show" at someone for getting something wrong.
Even still, the mechanics of Genjutsu are very much in flux. Cats and sage creatures don't have Chakra, they have "sage energy", and yet, the IT worked on animals, as well as Sasuke's Sharingan Genjutsu. They all had brains though, but the most important part is the chakra thing, right? if the mechanics of Genjutsu aren't consistent, how can we figure out if it will work on Augus?
Even still, the mechanics of Genjutsu are very much in flux. Cats and sage creatures don't have Chakra, they have "sage energy", and yet, the IT worked on animals, as well as Sasuke's Sharingan Genjutsu. They all had brains though, but the most important part is the chakra thing, right? if the mechanics of Genjutsu aren't consistent, how can we figure out if it will work on Augus?
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Nothing was inconsitied about it. This has happened on numerous occasions. AS I SAID SHARINGAN USERS CAN SEE A TAILED BEAST INSIDE SOMEONE. THEREFORE THEY CAN GENJUTSU HIM.
The scan you are talking about
Another time it happened when Sasuke did it.
It even happened in Boruto.
As you can see shin was too scared to do anything.
The scan you are talking about
Another time it happened when Sasuke did it.
It even happened in Boruto.
As you can see shin was too scared to do anything.
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None of that supports the body having a brain inside of the Jinchuriki. Yes, we agree Genjutsu users can try to hax the Biju inside their vessel. Does that biju, when in Spiritual form, in that vessel, have a brain? Likely not, but we don't know for sure. And even then, there's the inconsistency of not having chakra to manipulate-- like Manda, or a date creature.
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Thing is, when they are sealed away, they don't actually have physical bodies. Which is where the inconsistency with the statement comes into play.
My whole point is that if we take the brain and chakra statements at face value, they would be inconsistent with the rest of the story.
Why is it inconsistent?
The statement says that genjustu is created by controlling chakra which links to the opponents cranial nerves. As we know, when a Bijuu is sealed away they only exist as a mass of chakra inside of their host, they don't have physical bodies. So, how can genjustu control their cranial nerves when they don't have cranial nerves?
There are only two things we can assume to be the case.
1) It was retconned.
2) Genjutsu users can also control beings with metaphysical brains and nerves.
My whole point is that if we take the brain and chakra statements at face value, they would be inconsistent with the rest of the story.
Why is it inconsistent?
The statement says that genjustu is created by controlling chakra which links to the opponents cranial nerves. As we know, when a Bijuu is sealed away they only exist as a mass of chakra inside of their host, they don't have physical bodies. So, how can genjustu control their cranial nerves when they don't have cranial nerves?
There are only two things we can assume to be the case.
1) It was retconned.
2) Genjutsu users can also control beings with metaphysical brains and nerves.
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Code:
The Uchiha are particularly infamous for using this ability on the Nine-Tails, and in fact can enter its or another tailed beasts' jinchüriki's subconscious to more precisely control the beast's chakra.[29]- 1,247
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The Uchiha are particularly infamous for using this ability on the Nine-Tails, and in fact can enter its or another tailed beasts' jinchüriki's subconscious to more precisely control the beast's chakra. **
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So, what are you adding, Judge? Because we just said that Chakra is manipulated IN the BRAIN which Tailed Beasts inside the Jinchuriki don't have, being spirits. We agree, the Uchiha can hax biju, and I admit biju have brains when they have their bodies, but when biju don't have their bodies and are spirits, how can they manipulate the Chakra in their brains (to perform genjutsu) if they don't have brains AS SPIRITs. Doesn't negate Uchiha haxing chakraless sage creatures and the IT haxing house cats with no Chakra.
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That isn't a spirit mode. There is no spirit mode. It's just him embodying all of his chakra. You are literally saying a tailed beast can switch his chakra mode off and on.
I'm going to stop arguing with you because you are giving me a headache with your ignorance. Toodles.
I'm going to stop arguing with you because you are giving me a headache with your ignorance. Toodles.
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It wasn't his soul. It was his chakra. What don't you understand by that?
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This is him talking to Sasuke comparing his and Madara's chakra. HE IS LITERALLY MADE OUT OF CHAKRA.
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What you fail to understand is that you're making our point.
How can Sasuke genjutsu someone when to use Genjutsu it takes (either or both) a brain and chakra? There are times, like what you pointed out, where they manipulate just chakra without a brain, and there are times where they manipulate brains with no chakra, and then there's times where they manipulate both. You would argue that Kurama has a brain normally. But then, as a Spirit, he doesn't inside Naruto. So they just manipulate the chakra itself...?
It's inconsistent.
So how do we know that they can Hax Augus? Who, even by verse equalization, has weird biology that makes it unclear if he has a robot brain? Does Sasuke need a brain? Does he need chakra? Which?!
The claim is, Genjutsu's rules are inconsistent, and we don't know enough to give a definitive stance on whether it would work on Augus. You coming in here and insulting people, screaming "you don't know the series!" Is rude. And it's worse when we have been saying the same thing all day, you giving evidence to something we didn't even ask for.
How can Sasuke genjutsu someone when to use Genjutsu it takes (either or both) a brain and chakra? There are times, like what you pointed out, where they manipulate just chakra without a brain, and there are times where they manipulate brains with no chakra, and then there's times where they manipulate both. You would argue that Kurama has a brain normally. But then, as a Spirit, he doesn't inside Naruto. So they just manipulate the chakra itself...?
It's inconsistent.
So how do we know that they can Hax Augus? Who, even by verse equalization, has weird biology that makes it unclear if he has a robot brain? Does Sasuke need a brain? Does he need chakra? Which?!
The claim is, Genjutsu's rules are inconsistent, and we don't know enough to give a definitive stance on whether it would work on Augus. You coming in here and insulting people, screaming "you don't know the series!" Is rude. And it's worse when we have been saying the same thing all day, you giving evidence to something we didn't even ask for.
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If Kurama is PURE CHAKRA. PURE CHAKRA. PURE CHAKRA. how wouldn't any of the uchiha clan NOT BE ABLE TO GENJUTSU HIM.
IN EVERY INSTANCE KURAMA GOT GENJUTSU'D IT TOOK ONE LOOK AND THEN IT WAS OVER.
IF YOU SAW THIS EPISODE SASUKE HAD HIS MANGEKYO SHARINGAN ACTIVATES THE ENTIRE TIME HE WAS TALKING TO KURAMA, THIS IS MOST LIKELY HOW HE MANIPULATED KURAMA.
I JUST SHOWED YOU A LEGIT DATABOOK THAT SAID VISUAL GENJUTSU NEEDS EYE CONTACT.
IT IS OBVOUIS YOU KNOW NEITHER OF ASURA'S WRATH OR NARUTO.
IN EVERY INSTANCE KURAMA GOT GENJUTSU'D IT TOOK ONE LOOK AND THEN IT WAS OVER.
IF YOU SAW THIS EPISODE SASUKE HAD HIS MANGEKYO SHARINGAN ACTIVATES THE ENTIRE TIME HE WAS TALKING TO KURAMA, THIS IS MOST LIKELY HOW HE MANIPULATED KURAMA.
I JUST SHOWED YOU A LEGIT DATABOOK THAT SAID VISUAL GENJUTSU NEEDS EYE CONTACT.
IT IS OBVOUIS YOU KNOW NEITHER OF ASURA'S WRATH OR NARUTO.
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1. Sasuke didn't have the Mangekyou when they were in Orochimaru's Hideout
2. He Surpressed Kurama's Chakra, not Genjutsu'd
And calm down on that hostility
2. He Surpressed Kurama's Chakra, not Genjutsu'd
And calm down on that hostility
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- #78
jesus, this was one of my first battles, i just noticed that it was an mistake...
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