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Additions to the HDE page (Staff Thread)

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DT is supposed to be working on something else too before coming back to this. So we’re gonna be here a while
 
Simply stating that something is Higher Dimensional or from a Higher Plane or a Higher Existence does not necessarily imply the existence of an extra-dimensional axis in relation to 3-dimensional entities or objects.
Click to expand...

Does this part of the proposed changes still hold?

If so, then for the moment my only hang-up with those proposals is the bolded tidbit here. If "higher dimension" is used by the verse as a synonym of "higher plane" (As in, somewhere else that is somehow just literally positioned "higher"), then that's fine, but "higher-dimensional" is a good deal more specific. Something described as such absolutely should get Higher-Dimensional Existence.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Ok, I will bite. If this won't result in another long winded thread on my todo-list I will take care of this first.

What's the question?
Click to expand...
The OP, that's all, just some clarification on HDE page
Ultima_Reality said:
Does this part of the proposed changes still hold?

If so, then for the moment my only hang-up with those proposals is the bolded tidbit here. If "higher dimension" is used by the verse as a synonym of "higher plane" (As in, somewhere else that is somehow just literally positioned "higher"), then that's fine, but "higher-dimensional" is a good deal more specific. Something described as such absolutely should get Higher-Dimensional Existence.
Click to expand...
I think simply stated to be of higher dimensional should not mean HDE, I can list at least 10 verses where the character was called higher dimensional but they are actually not and neither do they have an extra dimensional axis. So there should be more context on the statement before we give HDE, as even some times higher dimensional is used to refer to a place outside the current reality e.t.c.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Ok, I will bite. If this won't result in another long winded thread on my todo-list I will take care of this first.

What's the question?
Click to expand...

Me first me first!

Shouldnt Large Size type 8/9 grant higher dimensional existence? I mean being larger than a universe and extending into the flow of time is essentially just growing into an entirely new axis.

So I propose for this
  • Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs signifies an uncountable infinite difference, which can suggest qualitative superiority. However, without further context, this does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis.
Click to expand...

to be re-worded to


  • Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs in such a way that it signifies an uncountable infinite difference, suggests the existence of another axis for example, growing into the flow of time or being large enough to be able to see entire space time continuums, and so on.
or to something of a similar fashion.

Edit: damn pain beat me to it
 
PrinceofPein said:
The OP, that's all, just some clarification on HDE page
Click to expand...
Oh, I guess you changed the OP from the last time I looked at the thread.
Simply stating that something is Higher Dimensional or from a Higher Plane or a Higher Existence does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis in relation to 3-dimensional entities or objects.
Click to expand...
For higher plane or higher existence that's ok. I would add some extra explanation regarding "is higher dimensional".
Namely that the only reason that may not be about having a higher dimensional axis is because some authors use it figuratively and that it hence needs to be analyzed in context. (Unless I miss another way it could not be higher dimensional)


The rest could be added like that, I think.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Me first me first!

Shouldnt Large Size type 8/9 grant higher dimensional existence? I mean being larger than a universe and extending into the flow of time is essentially just growing into an entirely new axis.

So I propose for this


to be re-worded to


  • Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs in such a way that it signifies an uncountable infinite difference, suggests the existence of another axis for example, growing into the flow of time or being large enough to be able to see entire space time continuums, and so on.
or to something of a similar fashion.

Edit: damn pain beat me to it
Click to expand...
There is a difference between containing universe and containing an infinite 3D object.
To contain a universe in most cases you need to contain the entire space-time continuum which would be 4D in its own right.
But when it comes to being larger than infinite 3D or just 3D space alone, you can be larger without being higher D, infinites can be subset of each other and while one will still contain one, both are still infinite
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Shouldnt Large Size type 8/9 grant higher dimensional existence? I mean being larger than a universe and extending into the flow of time is essentially just growing into an entirely new axis.
Click to expand...
I think it's fine to entertain the possibility of some cases not having an actual higher-dimensional physiology but nevertheless having a size that's roughly analogous to that. Even outside of reality-fiction interactions, this happens decently often in fiction.

The Dark Tower comes to mind, where infinite time and space of a lower universe can be contained inside an atom of a higher one, and the people in this higher world can "incinerate an eternity of eternities" by so much as burning a twig. Those people are still, in some sense, 3-D, though, as is their universe.
 
Damn I hate double posting
DontTalkDT said:
For higher plane or higher existence that's ok. I would add some extra explanation regarding "is higher dimensional".
Namely that the only reason that may not be about having a higher dimensional axis is because some authors use it figuratively and that it hence needs to be analyzed in context. (Unless I miss another way it could not be higher dimensional)
Click to expand...
I mean the point is that higher D statements without further context into what it means, should not mean HDE, or can you elaborate what you mean since I think we are saying the same thing here.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
I think it's fine to entertain the possibility of some cases not having an actual higher-dimensional physiology but nevertheless having a size that's roughly analogous to that. Even outside of reality-fiction interactions, this happens decently often in fiction.

The Dark Tower comes to mind, where infinite time and space of a lower universe can be contained inside an atom of a higher one, and the people in this higher world can "incinerate an eternity of eternities" by so much as burning a twig. Those people are still, in some sense, 3-D, though, as is their universe.
Click to expand...

Oh but isn’t this “atom” here treated as some kind of a pocket reality containing it’s own space time? I mean yeah that won’t even count for Large Size too right?
 
PrinceofPein said:
Damn I hate double posting

I mean the point is that higher D statements without further context into what it means, should not mean HDE, or can you elaborate what you mean since I think we are saying the same thing here.
Click to expand...
I mean, we are pretty much saying the same. I only think one should add a little something to make it clear that statements that characters are higher dimensional need a lot less additional context.

I would just suggest a really small reformulation, like
Simply stating that something is from a Higher Plane or a Higher Existence does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis in relation to 3-dimensional entities or objects. Statements that something is Higher Dimensional also need to be interpreted in context, as authors at times use the term figuratively.
Click to expand...
or something like that. Just singling it out a little.
 
DontTalkDT said:
I mean, we are pretty much saying the same. I only think one should add a little something to make it clear that statements that characters are higher dimensional need a lot less additional context.

I would just suggest a really small reformulation, like

or something like that. Just singling it out a little.
Click to expand...
Looks fine by me
Ultima_Reality said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Is DT new draft fine by you? Or you want to add or remove something ?
 
I will apply the changes in a few hours when I am home or if someone else wants to, they can do that too
 
Ultima_Reality said:
No. That genuinely is just the hierarchical relationship the two realities hold.
Click to expand...

Okay then it seems like a context thing. Would it be suitable to reword that bit into something like:
Being uncountably infinitely larger than 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs may suggest the existence of an additional dimensional axis, such as growing into the flow of time or having the ability to observe entire space-time continuums. However, there are cases that contradict this notion, so the evidence should be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
Click to expand...


PrinceofPein said:
There is a difference between containing universe and containing an infinite 3D object.
To contain a universe in most cases you need to contain the entire space-time continuum which would be 4D in its own right.
But when it comes to being larger than infinite 3D or just 3D space alone, you can be larger without being higher D, infinites can be subset of each other and while one will still contain one, both are still infinite
Click to expand...

yeah I know.
 
So have you managed to finish reaching a conclusion here then?
 
I will be applying this now
The term "Higher-Dimensional Existence" refers to objects and entities that exist in more than the regular 3-dimensional space, with at least one additional dimension. It is important to note that certain criteria must be met for an object or entity to be considered Higher-Dimensional.

  • Simply viewing 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs as fiction does not qualify them as Higher-Dimensional, as they are still portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings.
  • Ontological differences over 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs, with three or more dimensions, are often a measure of power and do not necessarily indicate the presence of an extradimensional axis.
  • Being infinitely larger than or containing infinite 3-dimensional objects, entities, or constructs signifies an uncountable infinite difference, which can suggest qualitative superiority. However, without further context, this does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis.
  • Simply stating that something is from a Higher Plane or a Higher Existence does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis in relation to 3-dimensional entities or objects. Statements that something is Higher Dimensional also need to be interpreted in context, as authors at times use the term figuratively.
  • Stating that something is Extra-Dimensional simply means it comes from outside of the regular 3-dimensional space. It does not necessarily mean that it has an extradimensional axis in contrast to 3-dimensional objects, without further context.
  • Stating that something transcends space or space and time does not necessarily imply that it has an extradimensional axis or that it pertains to the geometry of the object.
Click to expand...
 
PrinceofPein said:
I will be applying this now
Click to expand...
I have a question. Doesn't the statement "dimensional" in extra dimensional refer to a geometric dimension from an outer space or outer pocket dimension? At least on the wiki we scale an statement like "dimensional" to geometric dimension by default, and in that case wouldn't the presence of a character also scale as a +1 axis?
 
Georredannea15 said:
I have a question. Doesn't the statement "dimensional" in extra dimensional refer to a geometric dimension from an outer space or outer pocket dimension? At least on the wiki we scale an statement like "dimensional" to geometric dimension by default, and in that case wouldn't the presence of a character also scale as a +1 axis?
Click to expand...
Not really, the term "extra dimensional" space itself means outside regular 3D space and not higher dimensional.
With more contexts it would mean higher dimensional
 
PrinceofPein said:
Not really, the term "extra dimensional" space itself means outside regular 3D space and not higher dimensional.
With more contexts it would mean higher dimensional
Click to expand...
I mean that the word "dimensional" already refers to existence, that is, the dimensional axis, that is, the geometric dimension. I don't understand why we take a statement that has this reference as "outer space" or "outer packet dimension".

The statement "dimensional" is one of the most practical and easiest statements that can be used to describe the nature of a character, structure or a space geometrically. After all, it's not like statement of the "dimension", which can mean more than one thing.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I mean that the word "dimensional" already refers to existence, that is, the dimensional axis, that is, the geometric dimension. I don't understand why we take a statement that has this reference as "outer space" or "outer packet dimension".

The statement "dimensional" is one of the most practical and easiest statements that can be used to describe the nature of a character, structure or a space geometrically. After all, it's not like statement of the "dimension", which can mean more than one thing.
Click to expand...

extradimensional - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org en.m.wiktionary.org

Extradimensional Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary

Extradimensional definition: (jargon, science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the <a>universe</a>.
www.yourdictionary.com www.yourdictionary.com

What does extradimensional mean?

Definition of extradimensional in the Definitions.net dictionary. Meaning of extradimensional. What does extradimensional mean? Information and translations of extradimensional in the most comprehensive dictionary definitions resource on the web.
www.definitions.net www.definitions.net

It is used to denote something outside physical 3D space
 
PrinceofPein said:

extradimensional - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org en.m.wiktionary.org

Extradimensional Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary

Extradimensional definition: (jargon, science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the <a>universe</a>.
www.yourdictionary.com www.yourdictionary.com

What does extradimensional mean?

Definition of extradimensional in the Definitions.net dictionary. Meaning of extradimensional. What does extradimensional mean? Information and translations of extradimensional in the most comprehensive dictionary definitions resource on the web.
www.definitions.net www.definitions.net

It is used to denote something outside physical 3D space
Click to expand...
Mehhh... I thought that the statement"dimensional" here could be used logically as we use it in spatial dimensions, but... If DT and Ultima are saying that, there's not much to say.
 
It literally said outside physical reality

And on the other definition outside einstein space time dimension.

And einstein spacetime is literally his theory on the fourth dimension of time.
How could you be outside the fourth dimension yet not be equivalent if not lower.
Since extradimension of space is not something under einstein's spacetime thus outside of it
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
It literally said outside physical reality

And on the other definition outside einstein space time dimension.

And einstein spacetime is literally his theory on the fourth dimension of time.
How could you be outside the fourth dimension yet not be equivalent if not lower.
Since extradimension of space is not something under einstein's spacetime thus outside of it
Click to expand...
So... any dimension outside of space-time can be 3D. It doesn't always have to be four-dimensional. That's not what I was talking about.
 
Georredannea15 said:
So... any dimension outside of space-time can be 3D. It doesn't always have to be four-dimensional. That's not what I was talking about.
Click to expand...
If they are 3D and lack time that would need explicit mention such as timeless dimension etc. The existence of a timeless dimension is illogical unless the fiction says its timeless and it still works.
Quoting einstein. A dimension without time is equivalent to a word without thought.

So being extradimensional means you need to be outside time as it is which could be 4D or 3D depending on how context goes. So tbh a vague mention of extradimensional is insufficient to determine whether it is 3D or 4D with the context that fiction with timeless dimension exist
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
If they are 3D and lack time that would need explicit mention such as timeless dimension etc. The existence of a timeless dimension is illogical unless the fiction says its timeless and it still works.
Quoting einstein. A dimension without time is equivalent to a word without thought.

So being extradimensional means you need to be outside time as it is which could be 4D or 3D depending on how context goes. So tbh a vague mention of extradimensional is insufficient to determine whether it is 3D or 4D with the context that fiction with timeless dimension exist
Click to expand...
But this is "fiction", in fiction you can have timeless 3D space or you can have a 3D outer space.
 
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