Adding Boboiboy Ability and Tier Upgrade

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Could honestly say the same for Hang Kasa except he didn't even manage to damage Retakka at all during the entire fight.

They were clashing blows with each other, meaning their AP scales to one another's

Hang Kasa's shield held up to Post-Absorption Retakka's attacks similar to Pre-Absorption for an extended period of time, and

you can't call Hang Kasa's feats outliers because those are his only ones with the Crystal Element

 

[Greatsage13th]

They were clashing blows with each other, meaning their AP scales to one another's

Hang Kasa's shield held up to Post-Absorption Retakka's attacks similar to Pre-Absorption for an extended period of time, and

He's still vastly inferior, his durability holds up but armobot amped Yaya, Ying and fang at least gave retakka a severe headache and fang managed to knock him away with enough force. Much better feat than Hang Kasa has ever output.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

He's still vastly inferior

Old Hang Kasa is inferior, not vastly inferior. Just because we don't see him harm Retakka doesn't mean he doesn't scale to Retakka's AP when they were clearly clashing blows and Old HK endured a powerful blast from Retakka Gamma

armobot amped Yaya, Ying and fang at least gave retakka a severe headache

He was getting tagteamed by two characters that can individually harm him, blocking ArmoBot Yaya's attacks with one arm and laughing away shortly after overpowering them. They certainly weren't giving him a "severe headache", and it was a 2v1 compared to the 1v1 with HK

 

[Greatsage13th]

Old Hang Kasa is inferior, not vastly inferior. Just because we don't see him harm Retak'ka doesn't mean he doesn't scale to Retakka's AP when they were clearly clashing blows and Old HK endured a powerful blast from Retakka Gamma

As I said, that only counts as durability and not AP. Same case like crocodile from one piece who has high 7-A AP but High 6-A durability which makes sense in this similar situation.

He was getting tagteamed by two characters that can individually harm him, blocking ArmoBot Yaya's attacks with one arm and laughing away shortly after overpowering them. They certainly weren't giving him a "severe headache", and it was a 2v1 compared to the 1v1 with HK

They still made him wince and Fang literally struck him hard enough to send him flying. Hang Kasa didn't have the same feat as them as in he never got hurt, same thing for BoBoiBoy post training who still got absolutely slammed and barely did anything unlike what the armobot amps brought.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

As I said, that only counts as durability and not AP.

Clashing blows and not getting completely overpowered is AP scaling. They are clearly being depicted as comparable even if HK was weaker

Hang Kasa didn't have the same feat as them as in he never got hurt

Part of the Retakka Voltra vs Old Hang Kasa fight wasn't fully visible to the audience and the next we see of them was just HK blocking Voltra's attacks with a shield

same thing for BoBoiBoy post training who still got absolutely slammed and barely did anything unlike what the armobot amps brought.

Because he got blitzed and caught off-guard, and even then he deflected an attack from Retakka Tempest that might have killed Hang Kasa

 

[Greatsage13th]

After I repair the Bayugan calc, if we get 2 feats that are far higher than 6-C we would need to discuss the scaling chain.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

the Bayugan calc

We don't see Retakka absorbing all the planet's elemental energy, he doesn't even do that with both of the other planets that he absorbed energy from.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Clashing blows and not getting completely overpowered is AP scaling. They are clearly being depicted as comparable even if HK was weaker

Not necessarily, we've seen characters clashing with one another yet we don't scale them to the stronger character. Otherwise it might lead to a cascade of weaker characters having that high tier rating.

Part of the Retakka Voltra vs Old Hang Kasa fight wasn't fully visible to the audience and the next we see of them was just HK blocking Voltra's attacks with a shield

But it's clear that all Hang Kasa could do is block due to the massive difference in power.

Because he got blitzed and caught off-guard, and even then he deflected an attack from Retakka Tempest that might have killed Hang Kasa

Yes it would.

 

[Greatsage13th]

We don't see Retakka absorbing all the planet's elemental energy, he doesn't even do that with both of the other planets that he absorbed energy from.

He absorbed a forest, a power station and a sea of large clouds. What planets are you referring to? As far as I see he didn't absorb any planets.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

He absorbed a forest, a power station and a sea of large clouds. What planets are you referring to? As far as I see he didn't absorb any planets.

I said the planet Bayugan's elemental energy. All we see is him absorbing elemental energy from a few tornadoes.

Not necessarily, we've seen characters clashing with one another yet we don't scale them to the stronger character. Otherwise it might lead to a cascade of weaker characters having that high tier rating.

Hang Kasa with the Crystal Element doesn't scale to any else other than Retakka

But it's clear that all Hang Kasa could do is block due to the massive difference in power.

No it isn't. And his shield that blocked attacks from Post-Absorption Retakka also blocked attacks from Pre-Absorption Retakka and was even destroyed by him. If there was a massive power gap between Pre-Absorption and Post-Absorption, the shield wouldn't last that long against Post-Absorption attacks

 

[Greatsage13th]

I said the planet Bayugan's elemental energy. All we see is him absorbing elemental energy from a few tornadoes.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/5/50/Planet_Bayugan.webp/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/600?cb=20230505135700

if you mean these damn things that were in the background when he did the absorption. I'll just go along with the sea of clouds as the tornadoes are an extension of it.

Hang Kasa with the Crystal Element doesn't scale to any else other than Retakka

I'm inclined to say that was only in his prime. His old age wore him down to the point he lacks the strength to utilize his crystal sword or the trident that sealed retakka.

No it isn't. And his shield that blocked attacks from Post-Absorption Retakka also blocked attacks from Pre-Absorption Retakka and was even destroyed by him. If there was a massive power gap between Pre-Absorption and Post-Absorption, the shield wouldn't last that long against Post-Absorption attacks

That only happened when he no longer held it and focused his power into his trident to seal retakka. Same case with Kaizo where his barrier dissipates when he focused all his powers into the energy sword. so the main reason why post absorption retakka took many hits to break Kasa's shield follows the same concept i mentioned.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I'll just go along with the sea of clouds as the tornadoes are an extension of it.

We only see Retakka's absorption stretch out to two or three tornadoes. The clouds weren't touched and we even see one tornado in the background of the bottom right pic not having its energy absorbed by Retakka (it didn't have light blue lines wrapping around it like the others)

focused his power into his trident to seal retakka. Same case with Kaizo where his barrier dissipates when he focused all his powers into the energy sword

Hang Kasa focused the power into the trident AFTER the shield was destroyed. Kaizo's barrier dissipates WHEN he focused all his powers into the energy sword. The shield's durability wasn't changed in that scene

 

[Greatsage13th]

We only see Retakka's absorption stretch out to two or three tornadoes. The clouds weren't touched and we even see one tornado in the background of the bottom right pic not having its energy absorbed by Retakka (it didn't have light blue lines wrapping around it like the others)

You do notice the blue lines coiling down the tornadoes to their base attached to the sea of clouds in the 3rd image

Hang Kasa focused the power into the trident AFTER the shield was destroyed. Kaizo's barrier dissipates WHEN he focused all his powers into the energy sword. The shield's durability wasn't changed in that scene

So we agree

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

You do notice the blue lines coiling down the tornadoes to their base attached to the sea of clouds in the 3rd image

Might be perspective, but I don't see the base of the tornado in the 3rd image

So we agree

The shield's durability wasn't changed in that scene

The shield's durability doesn't change whether Hang Kasa holds it or not, and he only focuses power into the trident after the shield was already destroyed. You're comparing it to Kaizo's barrier dissipating when he is focusing energy into his sword at the same time. These two are different, not to mention their powers are also different

 

[Greatsage13th]

Might be perspective, but I don't see the base of the tornado in the 3rd image

there's a strand on the left side of the image that isn't coiling around the tornado and absorbing something else beneath.

The shield's durability doesn't change whether Hang Kasa holds it or not, and he only focuses power into the trident after the shield was already destroyed. You're comparing it to Kaizo's barrier dissipating when he is focusing energy into his sword at the same time. These two are different, not to mention their powers are also different

I wouldn't have made that comparison if both of them didn't have their powers originating from powerspheres. He already created the trident before the shield was even destroyed by retakka hinting that he abandoned the shield as a decoy and only focused on his trident. That's very similar to Kaizo's case.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

there's a strand on the left side of the image that isn't coiling around the tornado and absorbing something else beneath.

It looks like it's still coiling around the tornado. And the other much clearer images don't show any clouds being touched

I wouldn't have made that comparison if both of them didn't have their powers originating from powerspheres

Power Spheras are not the same. They have different generation and such, there's no reason their powers would be the same either

he abandoned the shield as a decoy and only focused on his trident

After the shield was destroyed. Again, the shield's durability doesn't change just because he threw it. He used it as a decoy so that Retakka would be distracted by it so that he can focus on his trident, which was after Retakka already sliced up the shield

 

[Greatsage13th]

It looks like it's still coiling around the tornado. And the other much clearer images don't show any clouds being touched

How about this. tornadoes as the low end and the sea of clouds as the high end?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

How about this. tornadoes as the low end and the sea of clouds as the high end?

Sure, I'm fine with that

 

[Greatsage13th]

Sure, I'm fine with that

Great, I'll just do the calculation once I finish my A level chemistry paper 2 exam tomorrow.

 

[DigDig09]

So bump? It been a day already...

 

[DigDig09]

I think the calc can be used then.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Calcs are accepted. So there is High 6-A, High 6-A+ and Low 5-B+

 

[DigDig09]

Umm @Marvel_Champion_07

 

[DigDig09]

Minor bump

 

[Greatsage13th]

I have a solution, why don't we scale armobot amp, hang kasa and the other third stage elemental users to High 6-A Gur'latan calc while BoBoiBoy and Retakka scale to High 6-A+ to Low 5-B+ Bayugan calc?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Also, add empowerment for Gopal as his powers become stronger the more scared he is.

 

[DigDig09]

I have a solution, why don't we scale armobot amp, hang kasa and the other third stage elemental users to High 6-A Gur'latan calc while BoBoiBoy and Retakka scale to High 6-A+ to Low 5-B+ Bayugan calc?

I agree with this but the problem here we need other CDM too. Also to convince Marvel and Ovens.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Not necessarily

 

[DigDig09]

Not necessarily

Really? How? Don't we need their agreement? Even thought the calc have been accept.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Really? How? Don't we need their agreement? Even thought the calc have been accept.

We just need 2 staff agreements

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I honestly have little interest in continuing with this debate, but I completely disagree with using the cloud calc unless there's explicit evidence Retakka absorbed energy from them

I have my issues with the tornado calc and I'd much prefer using the movie images of the tornadoes rather than sketchs that don't even appear in the movie images of the planet, and it's not like all tornadoes are necessarily the same size. So I'm either neutral or disagree with that

Overall, I'm still not convinced

 

[Greatsage13th]

I honestly have little interest in continuing with this debate, but I completely disagree with using the cloud calc unless there's explicit evidence Retakka absorbed energy from them

The tornado calc is low 5-B+ while the cloud calc is High 6-A+. So you're willing to allow low 5-B+ but not High 6-A+?

I have my issues with the tornado calc and I'd much prefer using the movie images of the tornadoes rather than sketchs that don't even appear in the movie images of the planet, and it's not like all tornadoes are necessarily the same size. So I'm either neutral or disagree with that

That's not a valid point as @Migue79 much preferred the sketch over the movie image. The words of calc group member holds more weight than your opinion when in regards to calculations.

 

[DigDig09]

Hmm you being such a hard nut to crack. I think the calc members already give you the answers for that.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

The tornado calc is low 5-B+ while the cloud calc is High 6-A+. So you're willing to allow low 5-B+ but not High 6-A+?

I never said that. I said that using the cloud calc has no basis

That's not a valid point as @Migue79 much preferred the sketch over the movie image. The words of calc group member holds more weight than your opinion.

I'm just bringing up my own thoughts about the calc, and again:

it's not like all tornadoes are necessarily the same size

This being the only supposedly Tier 5 calc for the verse doesn't help convince me any further

Hmm you being such a hard nut to crack. I think the calc members already give you the answers for that.

I guess Retakka should get Large Size Type 3 or 4 or sth since he's clearly in front of one of these tornadoes

 

[Greatsage13th]

I guess Retakka should get Large Size Type 3 or 4 or sth since he's clearly in front of one of these tornadoes

He's not as his merely shown in the view of a mere section of a tornado and not the entire thing itself, reason why migue agreed to the sketch anyways was that the movie images only showed the potions of the tornado but failed to show its true base and true height within the same shot.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

He's not as his merely shown in the view of a mere section of a tornado and not the entire thing itself, reason why migue agreed to the sketch anyways was that the movie images only showed the potions of the tornado but failed to show its true base and true height within the same shot.

You can still see the width of the tornado and there are blue lines coming from the sides of it that travel back to Retakka, so it clearly doesn't have a width that stretches out kilometres. And this tornado is also clearly a lot thinner and cylindrical compared to the ones that you calced

 

[Greatsage13th]

You can still see the width of the tornado and there are blue lines coming from the sides of it that travel back to Retakka, so it clearly doesn't have a width that stretches out kilometres. And this tornado is also clearly a lot thinner and cylindrical compared to the ones that you calced

Still, the calc group finds nothing wrong with it. if you find something wrong with it just do it your way.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So the 7-A and High 6-A calcs have been accepted? The 7-A calc is consistent and good to use, but I still feel very iffy about the High 6-A one without others on that level.

That's my first thoughts, anyway

I was asked to try and resolve this conundrum. You think these high calcs are outliers, correct?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I was asked to try and resolve this conundrum. You think these high calcs are outliers, correct?

My current main issues are a cloud calc that has basis of being used and a tornado calc completely far beyond everything else in the verse and the sketch used to calculate the size is not supported by the actual images and scenes in the movie

I guess Retakka should get Large Size Type 3 or 4 or sth since he's clearly in front of one of these tornadoes

You can still see the width of the tornado and there are blue lines coming from the sides of it that travel back to Retakka, so it clearly doesn't have a width that stretches out kilometres. And this tornado is also clearly a lot thinner and cylindrical compared to the ones that you calced

 

[Greatsage13th]

I was asked to try and resolve this conundrum. You think these high calcs are outliers, correct?

My current main issues are a cloud calc that has basis of being used and a tornado calc completely far beyond everything else in the verse and the sketch used to calculate the size is not supported by the actual images and scenes in the movie

Marvel_Champion_07 said:
I guess Retakka should get Large Size Type 3 or 4 or sth since he's clearly in front of one of these tornadoes

Marvel_Champion_07 said:
You can still see the width of the tornado and there are blue lines coming from the sides of it that travel back to Retakka, so it clearly doesn't have a width that stretches out kilometres. And this tornado is also clearly a lot thinner and cylindrical compared to the ones that you calced

Well the thing is, the calc group members disagreed with him and much preferred the sketch. 2 calc members, not just one. So his way on the matter holds even less weight and his arguments about large size type 3 and 4 as stated below:

He's not as his merely shown in the view of a mere section of a tornado and not the entire thing itself, reason why migue agreed to the sketch anyways was that the movie images only showed the potions of the tornado but failed to show its true base and true height within the same shot.