Ad Distant Astra -Final Fantasy VII- New Tiering and Keys

[TartaChocholate]

EDIT: Added the conclusions at the bottom of the post.


Well... I actually went there... With a pretentious latin title. Then again, what isn't pretentious in FF =P

At first I planned to propose this later along with other revisions, but a lot of future profiles and rewritings depend on whether this is accepted or not so it's better to discuss it right away. There's still a lot of stuff to cover for FFVII, but this... is already long enough by itself.

What is this about? New keys for early to mid game and change endgame to 4-A to 3-C Final Fantasy VII

Not gonna lie, it feels a little weird given how I've always been rather skeptical, for the most part, of starry sky creation feats for a few reasons. However, this isn't about personal opinion, this site has made its case clear regarding its take on these feats and has explained itself extensively about it, so it's a matter of accuracy in regards to that criteria.

According to our standards, it has been firmly established that if a character can create a dimension with a starry sky said creation feat places them in the Multi-Solar System level tier, with the feat reaching a power of 140.9373 PetaFoe according to a calculation by Kepekley23 or 2.045 ExaFoe by a newer one by Elizhaa. There have been two lenghty discussions about how this is legitimate, with this one being the latest.

-How does this apply to FFVII?-

Pocket Dimensions have been accepted within the abilities displayed in Final Fantasy VII, the specific case being the alternate realm to which Summons transport their opponents in order to unleash their special attacks, or, in the case of Crisis Core -Final Fantasy VII-, the realm to where they take their opponents in order to fight them. This is explained in the Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - The Complete Guide, as seen here.

Now, in regards to tiers and ratings, the alternate realms used by Summons have also been already used: initially, Crisis Core era characters and Summons aside Knights of the Round held a Dwarf Star level rating thanks to scaling to (Mr.)Typhon and his Disintegration attack, which flips upside down the Planet and was calculated to be in within the High 5-A range. However, the Pocket Dimensions were retroactively applied to these same characters, upgrading them to the 4-B tier by virtue of the size of the realms of Summons such as Bahamut Fury, which were located in outer space. The argument was that the dimension was large enough to contain a sun and planets, being limited by Sephiroth's Supernova as the upper end, which is an attack calculated within the Solar System level with 178,8 MegaFoe.

-Many cases? Outliers? Not quite...-

If one were to take a look at Bahamut Fury's alternate realm it could be seen that it's much larger than just a Solar System and contains countless stars, being no different in appearance than many other cases of starry sky dimensions used for a 4-A rating on this site.

Another case that has been brought up is Knights of the Round themlseves who also have a dimension containing a starry sky and with even a couple of visible galaxies at some point . However, these cases are considered outliers for two reasons: first, these two Summons while strong are explicitely considered inferior to Zirconiade, a Summon more or less established as the ultimate Summoned Beast in Before Crisis -Final Fantasy VII- who doesn't have a feat of similar magnitude; and, second, the starry sky dimension would put these Summons above Sephiroth himself, who is undisputedly the strongest character in the Final Fantasy VII setting per word of god.

However, all these reasons have some important buts: Bahamut Fury and the Knights of the Round are not the only characters who have a starry dimension, so do Bahamut ZERO, Minerva, possibly Red XIII and, most importantly, Sephiroth himself (who will be adressed in a moment). This is relevant for several reasons: it shows that a starry dimension is actually more common among the stronger characters that what first seems; second, Minerva is actually acknowledged as superior to the Summons, putting her above Zirconiade and the individual Weapons, meaning that what happens with Bahamut Fury and Knights of the Round isn't just a one-off inconsistency of comparatively weaker characters.

The most important reason, however, is to note how Sephiroth himself has an alternate starry realm, which can be seen in both the Original Japanese and International Versions of the Supernova. What's more, it's explained in the Ultimania Omega guide to be large enough to contain a galaxy, as seen here:​

1. 両手をかかげ、セフィロスがその場から姿を消す。
Ryōte o kakage, sefirosu ga sono ba kara sugata o kesu.
With both hands up, Sephiroth disappears from the spot.

2. 超新星爆発が発生。宇宙間を 青色の閃光が走り抜けたのち……。
Chōshinsei bakuhatsu ga hassei. Uchū-kan o aoiro no senkō ga hashirinuketa nochi…….
A supernova explosion occurs. After the blue flash ran through the space...

3. すさまじい爆風と衝撃が、太陽系のすべての惑星に押し寄せる。
Susamajī bakufū to shōgeki ga, taiyōkei no subete no wakusei ni oshiyoseru.
Huge blasts and shocks hit all the planets of the solar system.

4. 爆風が太陽系全体を包みこみ、超新星の 光が銀河系のかなたまで明るく照らす。
Bakufū ga taiyōkei zentai o tsutsumi komi, chōshinsei no hikari ga gingakei no kanata made akaruku terasu.
The blast envelops the entire solar system, and the light of the supernova shines brightly into the galaxy.​

A question that may raise is "why if his realm is so large it would collapse by an explosion that simply covers the Solar System?". This one can actually be explained with a little bit of lore given by Dissidia:

スーパーノヴア
異次元空間をも破壊し 絶望を贈る
sūpānovua i jigen kūkan o mo hakai shi zetsubō o okuru

Super Nova
Destroy different dimension space and give despair
(Rough automatic translation from Google)
The Supernova will destroy the dimensional space and bring despair
(Proper translation by ChocomilkAlex)​

As seen here, the Japanese version is much more straightforward with the effect: the Supernova indeed causes the destruction of the dimension Sephiroth creates to cast it, which was heavily implied by the animations of the attack. This, in hindsight, would mean that the alternate realms consisting of a starry dimension, going as far back as to Bahamut ZERO, would be valid 4-A creation feats for the tiers.​

-The new stance-

All of the above would completely shake up the standing of the tiers in the setting. Being blunt, every 4-B would become a 4-A by virtue of scaling to Bahamut Fury and on. The tricky part, however, is how big is the difference between the lowest end, Bahamut ZERO, and the highest, Sephiroth. I was thinking that Bahamut ZERO and Bahamut Fury, as the difference between the two of them isn't really established to be particularly massive, could both use the 140.93 PetaFoe/2.045 ExaFoe calculation and the other characters scale above them, until reaching Safer Sephiroth and those who scale to him.​

Safer Sephiroth is established as magnitudes stronger than the Crisis Core era level. For reference, though not exactly applicable here, he is 178 MegaFoe compared to the 3 KiloFoe of Bahamut Fury, roughly 60.000 times stronger when tiered in the Solar System level, and as mentioned above, his alternate realms seem to be large enough to hold a whole galaxy in them.

With this in mind we have two points for scaling for the higher tiers: those who scale to Bahamut Fury and those who scale directly to Sephiroth. The list would go like this:

Spoiler: List of Scaling

To Sephiroth:

Spoiler: List of Scaling

Final Fantasy VII
**Cloud Strife
**Barret Wallace
**Tifa Lockhart
**Red XIII
**Yuffie Kisaragi
**Vincent Valentine
**Cid Highwind
**Jenova (SYNTHESIS form only)
**The Prod Cloud
**Hojo (Injected with Jenova Cells)
**Master Tonberries
**Reno
**Rude
**Elena

Advent Children
**Kadaj
**Yazoo
**Loz
**Bahamut SIN

Dirge of Cerberus
**Weiss the Karate Pants
**Nero the Face Jockstrap
**Shelke the Clown Shoes
**Rosso the Butt Cape
**Azul the Horse Mantle
**Player Tsviet
**The Restrictor
**Omega Weapon
**Chaos Weapon
**Cactuars (Rare Specimens that Threatened Vincent)

To Bahamut Fury:
Final Fantasy VII
**Aerith Gainsborough
**Palmer (Yes, I am just as confused as you are. To be fair, the encounter is a gag of sorts)
**Kujata
**Typhon
**Knights of the Round
**Jenova (Ancient Era and Fragments)
**1st Class SOLDIERs

Crisis Core
**Sephiroth (Before Lifestream Fall)
**Zack Fair
**Angeal Hewley
**Genesis Rhapsodos
**Tonberries
**Chocobo (Digital Mind Wave)
**Hollander (With G-Cells)
**Minerva (She has her own starry dimension, but is mostly stronger due to scaling and statements)

Before Crisis
**The Player Turk
**Veld
**Elfé
**Fuhito
**Sears
**Zirconiade
**Ravens (Final Versions)
**Tseng
**Reno (Earlier days)
**Rude (Earlier days)

My proposal for how tiers should be handled is this one, for example:

Scaling to Bahamut Fury:
Tier: 4-A
Attack Potency: Multi-Solar System level (Stronger than Bahamut Fury, a Summon who sustains an alternate realm that contains countless stars)

Scaling to Sephiroth:
Tier: At least 4-A, likely 3-C
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Solar System level (Was instrumental to the defeats of Jenova and Sephiroth at the Planet's Core. Sephiroth's Supernova creates and destroys a dimension whose size at least approaches an analog of the Milky Way), likely Galaxy level (The dimension seems to locate said galaxy within a space where a comet is called from a distance of at least hundreds of thousands lightyears away), higher with Limit Breaks.

Sephiroth uses two tiers mostly because of the two different versions of the Supernova, which are both actually acknowledged in side materials, even if the flashier International Version has become the default aesthetic. Mostly to reconcile both possibilities.

It's likely a calculation or estimation for an exact AP is possible, given how it has been done for the starry sky destruction before and the linked blogs used said references to estimate the distance in the International version between the Comet's first appearance and the galaxy. I personally can't do it because I am a lost cause when it comes to numbers, apologies =V

-Humble Beginnings: Midgar and Chasing Sephiroth-

Might as well bring this up as well, for the same reason mentioned at the beginning, but is somewhat more straightforward. Two other possible keys for Final Fantasy VII are possible for the Midgar section of the game and another for the mid-game (mostly from after leaving Midgar up until the Whirlwind Maze when Sephiroth summons Meteor).

The proposal for the Midgar section takes basis in this calculation by KGiffoni, which estimates Cloud surviving the explosion caused by the Airbuster and scaling from it, which puts him at around 0,54 tons of TNT, on Building level.

My idea here was to put the party as:

Tier: 8-C
Attack Potency: At least Building level (Defeated the Airbuster/Compares to Cloud, Barret and Tifa who defeated the Airbuster, who caused an explosion of this power when destroyed. Later they would defeat stronger and more advanced Shinra machines without much trouble).

This mostly due to how Cloud was completely unharmed by the explosion, the Airbuster itself could actually hurt Cloud with its attacks and later machines in the Shinra HQ were taken out and the party was on good condition to keep going.

For the second key, it was actually more tricky as there weren't exact feats I know of to scale to and it's pretty shaky how they measure to Crisis Core characters and such. But I did come up with something:

Tier: At least High 6-A, possibly 4-A
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continent level (Can control summons like Ifrit, who has the power to burn down the world, or Leviathan who controls the world's oceans. If a Summoner is too weak, they won't be able to control the Summon), possibly Multi-Solar System level (Defeated the pieces of Jenova: BIRTH, LIFE and DEATH, who possibly compare to her form during the time of the Cetra, who was far stronger than Zirconiade by virtue of warranting the creation of the eight Weapons, while Zirconiade's destruction caused the deployment of a single one. As Zirconiade was considered the ultimate Summon, this puts Jenova far above Bahamut Fury, a Summon who sustains an alternate realm with countless stars. However, there is no definitive proof that the pieces of Jenova are as strong as she was in the past and there are implications they were simply luring Cloud, as Sephiroth needed him for his plans)

While the issue with Summoners and Summons isn't outright stated in FFVII, it is a constant in the Final Fantasy franchise, as it's not uncommon that a Summoner has to prove their worth before earning a Summon, usually by beating them up first (in IV it's outright stated that they can even turn on the Summoner and you defeat Summons to get them, for example). In Crisis Core something like that did, happen, when a young Yuffie stole the Bahamut Fury Materia from Zack she gave it back shortly after because Bahamut was too dangerous for her. The "High" is due to how Ifrit is essentially a low tier Summon and you get stronger ones later on, like Bahamut. I also did find a calc to put a number on this one, which is 1 Exaton if we consider it at the low end as surface destruction, which is fair, in my opinion.

The Multi-Solar System tier for this key is something I wasn't so sure about, mainly for what is described above, but I did discuss it with Everlasting and he had a point, while there 100% solid proof of it, it wasn't entirely baseless either, hence the "possibly".

-Shinra Footsoldiers, AVALANCHE Troopers and Infantryman Cloud-

I had forgotten this last one, it's pretty straightforward and brief. Essentially, Troopers from the first incarnation of AVALANCHE from Before Crisis -Final Fantasy VII- have been shown to be able to casually shatter a large stone statue with a single punch, which is a 9-B feat. The regular Shinra Infantrymen are shown to be able to fight evenly with the troopers whenever they engaged each other. This extends to Cloud during his days as a regular infantryman, before Hojo's experiments that showered him with Mako and injected him with Jenova Cells, which being the procedure of SOLDIER, gave him large boost in power in the long run. Cloud has shown to be strong to properly fight AVALANCHE troopers in battle, meaning he is comparable to them.

There is one catch with Cloud himself, though: whenever he was under emotional pressure, be it determination or rage he can push himself far beyond his normal capabilities. This has actually been described as an unexpected well of power. The most iconic case of this is when he managed to turn the tables on Sephiroth in the Nibelheim incident, however, there is another case of this in Before Crisis, he managed to take a sword despite not having any sort of training with it and fight Ravens, special units created by AVALANCHE to combat Shinra's SOLDIERs.

However, while Cloud does become much stronger when this happens, how much power he gains is wildly inconsistent so a precise tier for it isn't really possible. If we take as reference the proposed tiering here, Ravens are at least 8-C (being warriors developed by AVALANCHE to fight SOLDIER), but other enemies Cloud faces such as as a G-Deleter is 4-A and still far below Sephiroth, also a 4-A.

So taking that in count, it goes like this:

Shinra Infantrymen and AVALANCHE Troopers
Tier: 9-B
Attack Potency: Wall level (Are strong enough to shatter large stone statues with a single punch)

Infantryman Cloud
Tier: 9-B, far higher with Heighened Emotions
Attack Potency: Wall level, (Shinra Infantrymen are shown to fight evenly with AVALANCHE troopers, who can shatter large stone statues with a single punch), far higher with Heighened Emotions (Through his emotions, Cloud has been able to push himself far beyond his normal capabilities, taking on enemies far above him, such as Ravens and even managing to surprise Sephiroth enough to overpower him)


-To Summarize-

Shinra and AVALANCHE mooks, along with Infantryman Cloud: 9-B
Midgar: At least 8-C
Post Midgar up to Summoning of Meteor: At least High 6-A, possibly 4-A
Final Battle: At least 4-A, likely 3-C

Other parameters such as Lifting Strength and Speed will be brought up in the future in the case these new tiers and keys get accepted. The new keys also have the Powers and Abilities organized according to what's available in that section of the game or that moment, so it doesn't happen we have the Midgar party but are using Spells and Summons from the endgame.

So... thanks for anyone who actually took the time to read all this. Sorry for the massive amount of text, but really wanted to make clear where my stance was coming from.
​

UPDATED CONCLUSIONS:​

Okay, so, what was accepted and concluded goes like this:

In general: The pocket dimensions used by Summons have no real proof of being created as simply opposed to being transported to, so they can't be used by themselves to grant a tier. However, Sephiroth and the Knights of the Round are shown to destroy the dimension, making it AP applicable to them.

4-A to 3-C Top Tiers: Accepted.
Applies to: Safer Sephiroth and Knights of the Round directly, for reasons described above, and endgame original game party and those who fought the endgame party such as the Turks and Jenova SYNTHESIS. Still have to brainstorm a bit on the WEAPONS. Also applies to Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.

4-A mid-game original game party, Crisis Core and Before Crisis Tiers: Rejected.
As explained above, there is no actual proof the alternate realm of Summons is created, destroyed or sustained by the Summons themselves, making it unapplicable for AP. This also has the effect of retroactively removing the current 4-B rating of the Crisis Core characters. Instead, we have:
​

• High 5-A Crisis Core and Before Crisis era: Scaling once again from Tyhpon's feat of flipping the world upside down, by virtue of Zack defeating Bahamut Fury, the strongest of Bahamut variants in FFVII. Applies to Zack, pre-Lifestream Sephiroth, Genesis, Angeal, Minerva and most high command Turks, as well as Zirconiade and most likely the Weapons.​
• High 6-A to High 5-A mid game original game: By virtue of scaling to Ifrit and his statement of burning down the world and Typhon's mentioned feat, as well as controlling similarly powerful summons.​

9-A Midgar party and low tiers: Accepted. Sort of. Initally 8-C, but the calced feat had a mistake regarding the actual kind if destruction caused, so it was properly reevaluated to this rating. Applies to the party in the Midgar section of the game and low end enemies.

9-B Mooks and Infantryman Cloud: Accepted. Applies to mooks and our protagonist when he was a mook.​

 

[HST_Master]

Meaty. I agred with this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Knights of the Round Table example is actually more like a 3-B feat, but I'm neutral about this. Might need time to brainstorm and has this been brought to the rest of the crew?

 

[TartaChocholate]

Ah, frig my bad. The Knights of the Rounds case is an outlier, given their 3-B feat would put them far above several characters that are explicitly above them, such as Sephiroth (strongest character in the setting), Zirconiade (argued as the Ultimate Summon) and Minerva (a being above Summons altogether).

Apologies, I did mention it on the group a little after the blog about this upgrade was done, but after I was away until recently. So it wasn't really that discussed.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Sooo... I guess that this is a good chance to discuss all the tiering stuff for FFVII for the future profiles, so added what was missing: one discussing mooks and Infantryman Cloud. Fixed a couple of typos as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I can see 4-A being possible given the starry skies in the background. But agree 3-B seams outlierish.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

As we've already discussed, you know I'm in full agreement with all of this.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera_EX @Yomi_Schwarz @Matthew_Schroeder @CrimsonStarFallen @SinsofMan @Sixo_Bullets

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[HST_Master]

Ah, frig my bad. The Knights of the Rounds case is an outlier, given their 3-B feat would put them far above several characters that are explicitly above them, such as Sephiroth (strongest character in the setting), Zirconiade (argued as the Ultimate Summon) and Minerva (a being above Summons altogether).

Apologies, I did mention it on the group a little after the blog about this upgrade was done, but after I was away until recently. So it wasn't really that discussed.

Question, wouldn't they simply scale above them through statements/feats of fighting the cast respectively? Regardless I trust your discretion, I've only played Crisis Core and OG VII after all.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Lower tier stuff is 100% fine.

I'm a little more iffy on the mid tiers scaling to 4-A. I know we've been using that for a while now, but is there any evidence the summons created their pocket realms? As far as my memory goes, they only drag you to it, no? Please correct me if i'm wrong.

I do agree with 4-A to 3-C Sephirot however.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm not sold on every summon explicitly creating pocket dimensions yeah. I think they are just transported to them.

Sephiroth's stuff and the Knights of the Nine are the only ones that apparently explicitly destroy pocket realms. So I am opposed to Mid-Tier 4-A scaling. Absolutely. I'd prefer to use other feats to tier them.

4-A to 3-C Sephiroth is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Crimson and Matthew seem to make sense.

 

[TartaChocholate]

@HST_Master Unfortunately not, as the Knights of the Round bump into the upper ceiling I mentioned before: being above what Sephiroth has shown to be able to do. What I mean, Sephy is openly the most powerful character in the setting and the Supernova, which has been established to be his ultimate move, at best reaches 3-C. If that's the case, Sephiroth's feats should be the mark to use as reference, not the other way around as, if anything, a display of greater power was unintentional.

@Matthew_Schroeder @CrimsonStarFallen : Truth to be told... I agree on that one. Evidence that Summons use an alternate dimension is pretty clear in Crisis Core with the animations of the likes of Bahamut or Ifrit, but to be honest, I don't have any evidence that Summons create the realms they use. Even saying that they sustain their realms is a wording I have been using to more or less tie the size of their realms to their current tiers. Gone through the entire compilation, novels included, and nothing. Honestly, the obnoxiously scarce lore Summons have in VII in particular does not help this (even Zirconiade, who's central to the plot is alluded to mostly by its threat to end the world and little else).

In that regard, yeah... the mid-game key would actually lose it's "possibly 4-A" and scale to the best available feat, which is Typhon's High 5-A planet flipping. This could also retroactively apply to the Crisis Core era, characters like Zack, Genesis, Angeal and pre-Lifestream fall Sephiroth would also go back to High 5-A.

Though, while the main reference for scaling in the present would lose its current tier, that being Bahamut Fury, the tier change would still depend on how Zirconiade and Minerva's relationship with the Knights of the Round is treated as they would still scale to Zack and the individual Weapons, who scale to several other key characters. There are two choices in this regard:

• We keep considering Minerva and Zirconiade above the Knights of the Round, who have a 4-A to 3-C feat (using Sephiroth as the upper limit). Reason being Zirconiade still considered the Ultimate Summon of sorts... which, isn't entirely accurate. Going through Before Crisis, Zirconiade is never actually referred as such and having to use four support Materia to simply being able to Summon it isn't entirely corect, what happened is that Zirconiade's Materia was damaged from the beginning so additional was required to make it work and actually use its powers. What is true, however, is that Zirconiade being summoned is treated as a world ending crisis, something no other Summon caused, not even Bahamut Fury who can do this. Minerva however, is true, Zack does receive a mail saying it was stronger than Summons and given the sender was from SOLDIER and the person in Shinra had the Zirconiade Materia for his experiments, it's not a claim based on ignorance.
• We actually consider the Knights of the Round an aside case, Zirconiade and Minerva don't scale to them. Reason could be that, well that unlike all the other Materias used by Shinra or seen, which are manufactured, the KOTR Materia was a naturally formed Materia on a hidden island on literally a corner of the Planet so it is possible the people in Shinra genuinely didn't know about them when comparisons to Minerva were made.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Fury's feat was also calculated at 5-A iirc, so High 5-A is consistent at least.

Also, i think the last point sums up why i think they shouldn't scale. Shinra should have no reason to know about KoTR. Hell, pretty sure no one in the world up until you get it should.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the general conclusions here?

 

[Migue79]

I 100% agree with 4-A to 3-C Sephiroth.

 

[TartaChocholate]

So what are the general conclusions here?

Well, 4-A to 3-C Sephiroth (and by extension endgame party) has no issue. Same for 9-B mooks and Infantryman Cloud and 8-C early game party. High 6-A mid game party seems acceptable, but the proposed 4-A mid game tier needs to be reworked, most likely using a High 5-A feat that is available around that point in the game.

This would also downgrade the Crisis Core characters from tier 4 back to their old High 5-A rating.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

I agree with and support all of this.

 

[Antvasima]

Tarta:

Thank you for the summary. As long as the staff members agree, that is probably fine.

 

[TartaChocholate]

I guess it's better to wait for a little more of input. Even if the proposed upgrade and new keys were accepted, it did bring a downgrade for Crisis Core as a consequence.

A detail, though: the mid game key I proposed for the main party covers up to before they can get the Typhon materia, which actually becomes available almost at the end of the game. So scaling it Typhon with that key direcly isn't a thing, but there are Summons like Kujata and Alexander who compare in power, gameplay wise, Alexander is also commonly in the lore a top tier Summon, so that can help. (See here: https://gyazo.com/ca7a2add8b8b837a1b06b8b7dcd17cbb. Dunno why I can insert link into words in the messages)

The other choice is to modify they key and change it from up to the Summoning of Meteor to Cloud's recovery, where you can fight the Ultimate Weapon and reach the location where the Typhon Materia is, though all that would be left is a two Huge Materia Missions and the Midgar Raid before the endgame.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We can wait a bit if you wish, but not many members are listed as knowledgeable members or in the verse page for Final Fantasy.

 

[BeeDub98]

This is very well thought out and put together. Agreed with the 4-A to 3-C upgrade for the Top Tiers.

 

[Antvasima]

What Matthew accepted can probably be applied.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Understood, I'll apply the 4-A to 3-C upgrade to the corresponding characters as soon as I get back home from work. The midgame and early game keys also need the corresponding distributions of the skills they actually have at those points of the game, which is a CRT I will post in a few days, same for the Crisis Core downgrade, which also will receive a bunch of revisions. But these last two will be applied in the future.

Many thanks for those who gave their input and those who gave their support.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

However, please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

If you change the statistics for any characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Looks ok
i agree with this

 

[Armorchompy]

I agree with what's being applied, good CRT

 

[Armorchompy]

That said, should the 8-C feat really use pulverisation?

 

[TartaChocholate]

That said, should the 8-C feat really use pulverisation?

Well, I think so at the very least (not much of a calc person to give a proper veredict though >_>; Though if you find any issues or have any doubts by all means let's discuss about it. It's good to know to clearup mistakes or verify the info

 

[TyranoDoom30]

soo was it accepted or not?

 

[Armorchompy]

Decided to check, just in case. If you go frame by frame (, and .) you can clearly see huge chunks flying off- it's not Pulverization, it's not even Violent Frag, it's just Fragmentation. Can't blame the person calculating it for missing it though, it kinda blends in, but it's unmistakeably there.

 

[Armorchompy]

Using Fragmentation, the result is (6785878.4 * 6) + (2908233.6 * 208) = 645627859.2 Joules, 9-A

 

[TartaChocholate]

soo was it accepted or not?

The mid and high end keys were accepted. I haven't gotten to adding them yet because I actually split the abilities of the characters to what they actually have in the respective sections in the game which includes some hax revisions (both additions and removals) I am still working on. But... I'll leave that for later and add the upgrades for now, it's taking too long. Save for the Midgar key, as Armorchompy brought up something important.

@Armorchompy Hmmm... you're right here. This one might be my fault though, the link I provided for the feat was a rather low quality vid from a very old Longplay of the game, where the debris is even harder to see due to the framerate and lower resolution. Soo... uh, should we ask for a reevaluation based on your revision of the calc?

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy Hmmm... you're right here. This one might be my fault though, the link I provided for the feat was a rather low quality vid from a very old Longplay of the game, where the debris is even harder to see due to the framerate and lower resolution. Soo... uh, should we ask for a reevaluation based on your revision of the calc?

That would be a good idea, it's a pretty big difference in AP. But no biggie- I'm surprised I caught that, or that they even bothered to draw in that detail.

 

[Armorchompy]

I made the comment on the calculation. If a calc group member could evaluate it, I'd appreciate that.

 

[Armorchompy]

It was approved

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. That can probably be used then.

 

[TartaChocholate]

It was approved

Alrighto! Thanks for the help, dude!

I updated the original post with the conclusions of this revision given the amount of changes that happened since the initial proposal.

 

[Armorchompy]

Nice. All of this has been accepted, right? It can be applied

 

[TartaChocholate]

Yeah, gonna get to it in a bit. Was planning to work out the abilities they had in each key as well, but that is taking too long. So I'll just revise the Tiers for now and later on will properly attend the abilities.