Acrobatics rewording

[Tllmbrg]

1: Given that regular definitions of acrobatics tend to encompass gymnastics, I don't see how long jumping and aerial maneuvering wouldn't be acrobatics.

Idk something feels wrong with giving acrobatics to the Hulk just cuz he jumps far, but assuming it stays of this logic we should define how far you need to leap to get that ability

3: Pseudo flight isn't working off entirely different principles. Surface tension based water running isn't an inferior version of sticking to walls, it's something totally unrelated.

Sure the mechanics are different but end result for both is the same you're running on a wall since that's probably the most used version of that power
Also wouldn't in theory everyone who's a certain speed just get surface running?

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

I agree with Wokistan here.

 

[Wokistan]

1: Well that's the sort of thing included in basically every definition of the word, so....

3: No, the results aren't the same. You can't just chill out on top of water, surface tension doesn't work like that. If you can stick to walls, you can.

It's dependent on more than just speed. Mass and surface area of contact is relevant, as is the angle of incidence. This is why you can skip rocks off water and why lizards/insects who are definitely not going at crazy FTE speeds can still skirt across the top of water's surface.

 

[Tllmbrg]

1: Well that's the sort of thing included in basically every definition of the word, so....

Okay so we need to define what will count for that then (jump distance and all that)

It's dependent on more than just speed. Mass and surface area of contact is relevant, as is the angle of incidence. This is why you can skip rocks off water and why lizards/insects who are definitely not going at crazy FTE speeds can still skirt across the top of water's surface.

Okay but in theory anyone who's fast enough can do it right?

 

[Axxtentacle]

I mean, we could just go with having a further/higher jump than the furthest/highest jump ever recorded by a gymnast. I’m sure that record wouldn’t be too hard to find.

 

[Axxtentacle]

In fact, a simple google search shows 2.45m, or 8 feet and 1/4th of an inch for the highest jump. That seems like a good basis to go on.

 

[Bobsican]

What about for characters that have Small/Large Size?
Giving Godzilla Acrobatics just because it can jump is quite a no.

 

[KLOL506]

Simply jumping high isn't acrobatics, this I agree with.

One would also have to be able to perform acrobatic maneuvers like backflips and other maneuvers like in parkour and the like to qualify for acrobatics.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Simply jumping high isn't acrobatics, this I agree with.

One would also have to be able to perform acrobatic maneuvers like backflips and other maneuvers like in parkour and the like to qualify for acrobatics.

Enhanced Condition is, but honestly it should be a completely different thing. It should REALLY just fall under Superhuman Characteristics.

 

[Antvasima]

Given that regular definitions of acrobatics tend to encompass gymnastics, I don't see how long jumping and aerial maneuvering wouldn't be acrobatics.

Agile aerial maneuvering is definitely acrobatics, but The Hulk making a several kilometres long jump is not.

 

[Axxtentacle]

“spectacular gymnastic feats.” Is the definition of acrobatics, so actually, massive jumps would qualify.

 

[Bobsican]

If that's the case then the power would be redundant to Superhuman Physical Characteristics per definition.
So I would recommend trying to specify what we want to be denoted covered into a page, rather than trying to fit it all under Acrobatics, as it seems it's technically too broad for our purposes otherwise.

 

[Axxtentacle]

This is a secondary definition.
actions or procedures characterized by considerable flair or mental agility.

 

[Axxtentacle]

For the sake of simplicity, we should likely use that 2nd definition, since it’s not as vague.

 

[KLOL506]

If that's the case then the power would be redundant to Superhuman Physical Characteristics per definition.
So I would recommend trying to specify what we want to be denoted covered into a page, rather than trying to fit it all under Acrobatics, as it seems it's technically too broad for our purposes otherwise.

Not everyone with Superhuman Physical Characteristics gets the ability to perform incredible gymnastics or parkour by default, you know. Just ask Hulk.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, "incredible gymnastics" is way too broad and intersects quite a lot with Superhuman Physical Characteristics by itself.
I guess the definition to use should be worded better to avoid false positives.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with KLOL506 and Bobsican.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, "incredible gymnastics" is way too broad and intersects quite a lot with Superhuman Physical Characteristics by itself.
I guess the definition to use should be worded better to avoid false positives.

I never said to use "Incredible Gymnastics" as the ability's name, just keep the ability page as Acrobatics. Plenty of Athlete level people can have it too without having anywhere near close to superhuman strength or speed.

Basically, just remove the Enhanced Condition section and we should be good.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Well, "incredible gymnastics" is way too broad and intersects quite a lot with Superhuman Physical Characteristics by itself.
I guess the definition to use should be worded better to avoid false positives.

What do you think we should do here? IMO we should use that secondary definition of Acrobatics, since it fits more with what people think of when they hear “acrobatics”, and is nowhere near as vague.

 

[Antvasima]

I never said to use "Incredible Gymnastics" as the ability's name, just keep the ability page as Acrobatics. Plenty of Athlete level people can have it too without having anywhere near close to superhuman strength or speed.

Basically, just remove the Enhanced Condition section and we should be good.

KLOL506 makes sense to me.

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly I don't understand why we copied something like "Enhanced Condition" into our wiki. The whole "condition" stuff is just another Powerlisting wiki synonym for the "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" we generally use on the VSB wiki.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Well, that part I have a bit of an issue with, as that removes the other parts of enhanced condition.

Leaping great distances, ignoring vertigo, surviving falls by simply maneuvering. Those are just a few actions that someone with great athletism can perform. The user is also considered to have extremely elevated stamina and endurance at the moment of performing such movements

Specifically “surviving falls by simply maneuvering”, as this still seems very applicable to Acrobatics. Ignoring vertigo just seems weird and vague.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I think we’re better removing enhanced condition and moving falling from great heights there to All Terrain Mobility since technically being able to endure great heights like that could count under that section

Also again I ask wouldn’t everyone from a certain speed get surface running?
I think that section should be reworded so we don’t in theory need to add acrobatics to every decent speedster ever

 

[KLOL506]

I think we’re better removing enhanced condition and moving falling from great heights there to All Terrain Mobility since technically being able to endure great heights like that could count under that section

Also again I ask wouldn’t everyone from a certain speed get surface running?
I think that section should be reworded so we don’t in theory need to add acrobatics to every decent speedster ever

Speed alone ain't gonna cut it, techniques to maximize grip on the walls would also be needed to put into play.

 

[Tllmbrg]

You telling me a FTL dude can't run on walls?
Anyways surface running is like what ever, I just want Enhanced Condition to be yeeted or we're giving Hulk acrobatics

 

[Axxtentacle]

MCU thor gets acrobatics for jumping

 

[KLOL506]

You telling me a FTL dude can't run on walls?
Anyways surface running is like what ever, I just want Enhanced Condition to be yeeted or we're giving Hulk acrobatics

WW Hulk might qualify LOL

 

[Antvasima]

I just want Enhanced Condition to be yeeted or we're giving Hulk acrobatics

Agreed.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

So is it fine if we solve this by simply removing enhanced condition as a requirement?

 

[KLOL506]

So is it fine if we solve this by simply removing enhanced condition as a requirement?

ye

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is it fine if I try to handle it, or is some other staff member here willing to do so?

 

[KLOL506]

Okay. Is it fine if I try to handle it, or is some other staff member here willing to do so?

It's basically just removing the Enhanced Condition portion. I can do it in a jiffy.

 

[Tllmbrg]

We should check if there’re pages with acrobatics that use that section as a justification tho since well we’ll need to remove that from them

 

[Antvasima]

Is this fine, or should we remove mid-air jumping ability as well?

Acrobatics

Acrobatics is defined as the technique of performing maneuvers of balance, dexterity, agility, and coordination. In fiction, the levels of acrobatics can vary between simply performing extraordinary human movements to defiance of the laws of gravity and movement. Hypermobility: The user is...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

We should check if there’re pages with acrobatics that use that section as a justification tho since well we’ll need to remove that from them

Well, there would be almost 1900 page to check through, so it seems like a massive undertaking with limited payoff to do so as an actual project, especially as we have several other unfinished projects going on at the moment.

Pages that link to "Acrobatics" | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[SamanPatou]

I think we can just point it out in the articles clean-up thread if we spot a misuse of it in some profiles.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Well, there would be almost 1900 page to check through, so it seems like a massive undertaking with limited payoff:

Pages that link to "Acrobatics" | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom

vsbattles.fandom.com

It could be done overtime so, no need to rush but like just make so if a page has acrobatics of enhanced condition a person can delete it without a CRT

Is this fine, or should we remove mid-air jumping ability as well?

Acrobatics

Acrobatics is defined as the technique of performing maneuvers of balance, dexterity, agility, and coordination. In fiction, the levels of acrobatics can vary between simply performing extraordinary human movements to defiance of the laws of gravity and movement. Hypermobility: The user is...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think it's okay since iirc Wok says it fits more pseudo flight in general and other people agreed that it has no business in acrobatics

 

[Antvasima]

Saman:

That is probably more realistic.

 

[Antvasima]

It could be done overtime so, no need to rush but like just make so if a page has acrobatics of enhanced condition a person can delete it without a CRT.

I do not know where in the wiki that information can be placed in practice without coming across as intrusive though.

I think it's okay since iirc Wok says it fits more pseudo flight in general and other people agreed that it has no business in acrobatics

Okay. Do the rest of you also find it acceptable if we remove the mid-air-jumping definition?