Ace Future Sight

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Since we consider the ace novel and manga this should be easy.


In the manga ace is shown to acquire future sight

Plus its kinda further implied he has it based off of what Blackbeard said

Considering how logia users need to have future sight in order to keep up there image of “ invincibility” in the new world or this we’ll happen

Spoiler

Edit:

Considering enel a logia with great mantra could only dodge and “teleport” out of the way of luffy’s attacks instead of simply morphing his body to avoid his attacks

Spoiler

 

[SlendVeny]

Since we consider the ace novel and manga this should be easy.


In the manga ace is shown to acquire future sight

This might just be a flashback

Plus its kinda further implied he has it based off of what Blackbeard said

That doesn't imply that.

Considering how logia need to have future sight in order to keep up there image of “ invincibility” in the new world

Presuming you're talking about the thing Katakuri said, I disagree. Idk why the New World would be different, Enel could do this, and he had no Future Sight.

 

[Eminiteable]

In the manga ace is shown to acquire future sight

Plus its kinda further implied he has it based off of what Blackbeard said

This isn't future sight, regular kenbun grants this.

Plus its kinda further implied he has it based off of what Blackbeard said

Considering how logia need to have future sight in order to keep up there image of “ invincibility” in the new world

They don't.

 

[Fireld]

Presuming you're talking about the thing Katakuri said, I disagree. Idk why the New World would be different, Enel could do this, and he had no Future Sight.

Ye, Ceaser could do it too & he has no haki tbw.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

This might just be a flashback

Why would a one panel flashback play in the middle of a fight

That doesn't imply that.

Presuming you're talking about the thing Katakuri said, I disagree. Idk why the New World would be different, Enel could do this, and he had no Future Sight.

I could be misremembering but I’m pretty sure enel never dodged luffy’s attacks the way katakuri did

This isn't future sight, regular kenbun grants this.

Regular kenbun dosen’t show yourself getting folded in the future

They don't.

Pretty sure they do

Ye, Ceaser could do it too & he has no haki tbw.

Luffy was beating on ceaser if I’m remembering correctly

 

[SlendVeny]

Why would a one panel flashback play in the middle of a fight

He could be like "oh, he's about to do this thing, I remember him doing this thing."

Honestly, if someone could pull up the page from the novel, that's gonna be a good clarification.

I could be misremembering but I’m pretty sure enel never dodged luffy’s attacks the way katakuri did

He had an attack pass through him and reformed while his eyes were closed.

Luffy was beating on ceaser if I’m remembering correctly

Luffy had Haki

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

He could be like "oh, he's about to do this thing, I remember him doing this thing."

Honestly, if someone could pull up the page from the novel, that's gonna be a good clarification.

That is not how that moment is framed at all

He had an attack pass through him and reformed while his eyes were closed.

Um no, he dodged and “teleported” he never pulled a Katakuri

Luffy had Haki

Ya and he didn’t morph his body to avoid his attacks

 

[SlendVeny]

That is not how that moment is framed at all

How is it framed as Future Sight?

 

[SlendVeny]

Ya and he didn’t morph his body to avoid his attacks

Ace didn't ever morph his body to avoid Haki

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

How is it framed as Future Sight?

Because he sees himself getting hit by Whitebeard then dodges

 

[SlendVeny]

Because he sees himself getting hit by Whitebeard then dodges

Or he remembers Whitebeard doing the same thing in one of their 99 duels and dodges.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ace didn't ever morph his body to avoid Haki

Say’s who? We see ace have like a handful of fights in the main manga. He has a quick scuffle with smoker then he fights Blackbeard and is thrown off by his DF( you need to have a calm mind to you observation haki) then he gets freed in marineford while already pretty tried seeing as his vive card was burning then gets folded by akianu. If ace hasn’t taken to many hits in the new world then he probably pulled a Katakuri more then once.

Or he remembers Whitebeard doing the same thing in one of their 99 duels and dodges.

If memory was actually important then it would have been highlighted as an important aspect for the fight. Yet it never was from what I know

 

[Fireld]

Luffy had Haki

That plus him having higher stats than Ceaser

Ya and he didn’t morph his body to avoid his attacks

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

that just looks like regular dodging tbh, besdies luffy didn’t have problems landing hits on him throughout the fight unlike this gentlemen:

 

[SlendVeny]

Say’s who? We see ace have like a handful of fights in the main manga. He has a quick scuffle with smoker then he fights Blackbeard and is thrown off by his DF( you need to have a calm mind to you observation haki) then he gets freed in marineford while already pretty tried seeing as his vive card was burning then gets folded by akianu. If ace hasn’t taken to many hits in the new world then he probably pulled a Katakuri more then once.

We don't scale off of "probably"

If memory was actually important then it would have been highlighted as an important aspect for the fight. Yet it never was from what I know

The whole thing was about him improving by fighting over and over again.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Um no, he dodged and “teleported” he never pulled a Katakuri

You've been listening too much to other people (tiktok) or something... Logia's automatically phase through attacks, this is basic knowledge... They don't need future sight for that or to dodge something by morphing

 

[SlendVeny]

that just looks like regular dodging tbh, besdies luffy didn’t have problems landing hits on him throughout the fight unlike this gentlemen:

Where does he say "it's impossible if you can't see the future"?

 

[SlendVeny]

You've been listening too much to other people (tiktok) or something... Logia's automatically phase through attacks, this is basic knowledge... They don't need future sight for that or to dodge something by morphing

That was what I meant, but it is because of Enel being able to see with his eyes closed.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You've been listening too much to other people (tiktok) or something... Logia's automatically phase through attacks, this is basic knowledge... They don't need future sight for that or to dodge something by morphing

We don't scale off of "probably"

Considering the scan from the ace manga this isn’t just probaly

The whole thing was about him improving by fighting over and over again.

Ya and when did he have to memorize whitebeards attacks

Where does he say "it's impossible if you can't see the future"?

Never said anything’s impossible

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He used arm haki

I don't even need to translate, the image speaks for itself (wait nevermind... I'm seeing shit, I thought his hand were colored)

→ “四皇„配下の名に恥じない、強力な覇気の使い手でもある。攻撃を無効化する“自然系„の能力者も一撃で討伐。
→ He is also a powerful master of high energy, living up to his name as a subordinate of the "Four Emperors". He can defeat even those with "natural" abilities that nullify attacks with a single blow.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

He used arm haki

I don't even need to translate, the image speaks for itself

Yes exactly my point without future sight they can’t keep up there image of “ invincibility”

 

[SlendVeny]

Yes exactly my point without future sight they can’t keep up there image of “ invincibility”

Katakuri didn't keep up the image, he got the nuts beaten out of him.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Katakuri didn't keep up the image, he got the nuts beaten out of him.

Ya cuz snake man is fast as *** and outpaced his future sight.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yes exactly my point without future sight they can’t keep up there image of “ invincibility”

No...

That has never ever been stated or shown at all...

I also literally showed you that the reason pekoms was able to interact with him was because of arm haki

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

No...

That has never ever been stated or shown at all...

I also literally showed you that the reason pekoms was able to interact with him was because of arm haki

It hasn’t been stated but it has been shown. In the new world logia’s an’t got it easy anymore as wonderfully shown by pekom. They can’t just simply “auto morph” and be untouchable. In order to keep that image of “ invincibility” and “auto morphing” they would need future sight no?

 

[Kachon123]

Logias don't auto-morph. Their elements just get displaced.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It hasn’t been stated but it has been shown. In the new world logia’s an’t got it easy anymore as wonderfully shown by pekom. They can’t just simply “auto morph” and be untouchable. In order to keep that image of “ invincibility” and “auto morphing” they would need future sight no?

No... They need strong arm haki in order to still be intangible shown with akainu

Also basic obs Haki would grant them dodging haki attacks. Makes no sense at allllllll, that... just because they weak in the new world they have to have future sight for some unknown reason

Logia's are meant to not have it easy against haki users, that's why it's important to anyone to have it

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

No... They need strong arm haki in order to still be intangible shown with akainu

Also basic obs Haki would grant them dodging haki attacks. Makes no sense at allllllll, that... just because they weak in the new world they have to have future sight for some unknown reason

Logia's are meant to not have it easy against haki users, that's why it's important to anyone to have it

Your scan just says shanks has strong ki

Tell that to enel, they would need future sight in order to morph around attacks not necessarily because there weak

Yes your helping my point

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Your scan just says shanks has strong haki

Strong enough haki... And you just ignored the following scan

Tell that to enel, they would need future sight in order to morph around attacks not necessarily because there weak

Like what does that have anything to do with Enel... Enel literally used normal obs haki to dodge luffy Because of luffy's intangabilty negation

Yes your helping my point

I'm definitely not

It's insane how much misinformation I've just seen in such a short time

like nothing you are saying are making any sense...

 

[SlendVeny]

Enel is not an example of auto-intangibility. He could see the attack coming. Plus, Smoker got hit that one time. However, that doesn't prove you need Future Sight to morph around attacks.

 

[Eminiteable]

Regular kenbun dosen’t show yourself getting folded in the future

From the Haki Page:

Intermediate Stage: Haki users of this stage are capable of using all of the capabilities of Kenbunshoku Haki. They are able to read minds whenever they choose to, and can hear the inner voices of others whenever they wish. They can read the intent of attacks from others, allowing them to easily dodge[19]. They are capable of using this ability with their eyes closed[20][21]. They can sense the emotions of others around them as well[21][22]. Many users are capable of sensing the strength levels of others, like when Rayleigh sensed that there were 500 creatures on Rusukaina stronger than Luffy[1]. They are able to stretch out the range of their abilities to sense things at a far distance, usually spanning over several kilometers[15]. They can actively sense the presence and aura of others within their proximity, and occasionally have premonitions of the very brief future[19].

We've seen that kenbun haki grants the users "premonitions of the future" without being future sight. What Ace is doing is no different.

Pretty sure they do

They definitely do not. They don't need future sight or whatever to turn avoid damage, their "invincibility" isn't "possible" in the new world due to buso haki typically bypassing it.

 

[Kachon123]

@The_one_you_least_expect There is no solid proof that Advanced Kenbun is needed for a logia user to morph their body around attacks. In fact, that wouldn't even make sense. Why would having Advanced Kenbun be a prerequisite to them manipulating their element in that way?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Strong enough haki... And you just ignored the following scan

Fair enough, misread that. Though I don’t see why it needs to be especially strong when we’ve seen far weaker characters with haki affect logia’s

Like what does that have anything to do with Enel... Enel literally used normal obs haki to dodge luffy Because of luffy's intangabilty negation

The fact that enel wasn’t able to morph his body like Katakuri shows that Obs haki an’t enough to replicate that.

I'm definitely not

It's insane how much misinformation I've just seen in such a short time

like nothing you are saying are making any sense...

Yes you are, my entire point is that the new world makes things harder for logia users due to haki. And in order to properly morph around attacks they would need future sight

From the Haki Page:

We've seen that kenbun haki grants the users "premonitions of the future" without being future sight. What Ace is doing is no different.

Ace saw himself getting folded so I’m pretty sure that’s future sight

They definitely do not. They don't need future sight or whatever to turn avoid damage, their "invincibility" isn't "possible" in the new world due to buso haki typically bypassing it.

Katakuri with future sight was able to put up the image of “invincibility” regardless of arm haki so they would if they want to avoid attacks via morphing

@The_one_you_least_expect There is no solid proof that Advanced Kenbun is needed for a logia user to morph their body around attacks. In fact, that wouldn't even make sense. Why would having Advanced Kenbun be a prerequisite to them manipulating their element in that way?

Enel was a logia was great Obs haki and he couldn’t pull a katakuri. Never said nor implied they needed future sight to manipulate there element at all. My point is that they can’t just auto morph like before because of haki, so to keep up the image of them be untouchable and “ invincible” they would need future sight to morph around haki attacks

 

[Kachon123]

Enel was a logia was great Obs haki and he couldn’t pull a katakuri.

Is there any proof that he couldn't rather than he simply didn't? Because with all the proof you've brought here, this just seems to be another baseless assumption

My point is that they can’t just auto morph like before because of haki, so to keep up the image of them be untouchable and “ invincible” they would need future sight to morph around haki attacks

Logia users do not auto morph their bodies. Since their bodies are made of elements, they just let said element be displaced by attacks.

And even if we do say that Logia users do auto morph their bodies, why would they need Advanced Kenbun to morph their body around coated attacks? Why would that level of Kenbun grant them the ability to mold their bodies?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Is there any proof that he couldn't rather than he simply didn't? Because with all the proof you've brought here, this just seems to be another baseless assumption

Well considering kat morphed his body everytime I’d imagine it’s much easier then wasting energy dodging

Logia users do not auto morph their bodies. Since their bodies are made of elements, they just let said element be displaced by attacks.

And even if we do say that Logia users do auto morph their bodies, why would they need Advanced Kenbun to morph their body around coated attacks? Why would that level of Kenbun grant them the ability to mold their bodies?

Tomato tomato

Because they would literally see were there getting hit and act accordingly

 

[Eminiteable]

Ace saw himself getting folded so I’m pretty sure that’s future sight

Characters with basic kenbun haki see their opponents future actions. For example, Satori saw Luffy stretch his arm to hit him despite having no knowledge of luffy being a rubber man. The scan is just boichi's interpretation of the ability, no different than the anime showing the same thing for Zoro.

Katakuri with future sight was able to put up the image of “invincibility” regardless of arm haki so they would if they want to avoid attacks via morphing

Yes, Katakuri using future sight to reform his paramecia body to avoid luffy's buso punches made him seem invincible. Luffy himself was confused because to overcome a logia's "invincibility" hitting them with buso was the "sole method" taught to him by Rayleigh.

However, what Katakuri does has nothing to do with other logias like Ace, not sure why you're conflating the two.

 

[Kachon123]

Well considering kat morphed his body everytime I’d imagine it’s much easier then wasting energy dodging

This isn't the case.

Because they would literally see were there getting hit and act accordingly

And why is Advanced Kenbun needed for this? Why can't they just use their eyes, see an attack coming, and morph their bodies around them? Or just use regular Kenbun?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Characters with basic kenbun haki see their opponents future actions. For example, Satori saw Luffy stretch his arm to hit him despite having no knowledge of luffy being a rubber man. The scan is just boichi's interpretation of the ability, no different than the anime showing the same thing for Zoro.

We literally see ace use Obs in the same manga and panel of the future never appeared. Cool but that’s just regular Obs haki, dose the same thing happen in the manga?

Yes, Katakuri using future sight to reform his paramecia body to avoid luffy's buso punches made him seem invincible. Luffy himself was confused because to overcome a logia's "invincibility" hitting them with buso was the "sole method" taught to him by Rayleigh.

However, what Katakuri does has nothing to do with other logias like Ace, not sure why you're conflating the two.

Kat has logia like powers so I don’t see the problem with comparing the two

This isn't the case.

So he morphs his body instead of wasting energy dodging?

And why is Advanced Kenbun needed for this? Why can't they just use their eyes, see an attack coming, and morph their bodies around them? Or just use regular Kenbun?

lol if it was that easy then haki wouldn’t be as dangerous to them

 

[Eminiteable]

We literally see ace use Obs in the same manga and panel of the future never appeared. Cool but that’s just regular Obs haki, dose the same thing happen in the manga?

Yeah he foresaw an attack and dodged it to prevent it from hitting him, no different than pre-timeskip luffy changing the trajectory of his attacks to prevent losing his arms or the scene I previously sent with Zoro from the anime. Scenes like this aren't evidence of future sight.

Kat has logia like powers so I don’t see the problem with comparing the two

Honestly I'm really struggling to grasp how you're reaching these conclusions on how logia work. It was explained verbatim how logia "invincibility" functions and how it's bypassed from Rayleigh himself when describing buso haki. What Katakuri does is simply a way to prevent that method but is by no means what all logias do to achieve their "invincibility".

Unless I'm mistaking your argument it genuinely seems like you believe Logia's "invincibility" comes from them using their bodies to dodge attacks like katakuri rather than what we've actually seen time and again of them being "invincible" because they straight up become an element instead of taking damage to the true bodies.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Yeah he foresaw an attack and dodged it to prevent it from hitting him, no different than pre-timeskip luffy changing the trajectory of his attacks to prevent losing his arms or the scene I previously sent with Zoro from the anime. Scenes like this aren't evidence of future sight.

Wasn’t that because of his experience with kuro or something ? Did that scene happen in the manga? I don’t see why not when regular observation haki is never shown to shown the user a possible future

Honestly I'm really struggling to grasp how you're reaching these conclusions on how logia work. It was explained verbatim how logia "invincibility" functions and how it's bypassed from Rayleigh himself when describing buso haki. What Katakuri does is simply a way to prevent that method but is by no means what all logias do to achieve their "invincibility".

Unless I'm mistaking your argument it genuinely seems like you believe Logia's "invincibility" comes from them using their bodies to dodge attacks like katakuri rather than what we've actually seen time and again of them being "invincible" because they straight up become an element instead of taking damage to the true bodies.

Yes you are mistaking my argument , I believe at a baseline logia’s users turn into elements so they don’t get hurt, not dodge or moving out of the way. Just turning into an element. In the new world that doesn’t work anymore cuz haki, my point is in order to keep up the image of there “ invincibility” they would need to morph there bodies around haki attacks via future sight like with katakuri.