Acausal 5 vs. Concept Manip Type 1 but again

[Jinsye]

So here's an idea.

Character A is capable of manipulating the type 1 concept of time/causality/whatnot.

Would this be enough to interact with a type 5 acausal? As far as I can see, the reason why we don't treat type 1 conceptual manipulation as bypassing type 5 acausality is due to the way the Conceptual Manipulation page is currently written.

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

A type 1 concept simply needs to be independent of the part of reality they govern, which does not necessarily indicate being separate from time/causality in the same sense a type 5 acausal is.

But, if the type 1 concept is of time/causality, wouldn't the concept be separated from time and causality by default and thus be type 5 acausal? I find it pretty silly that we would assume that the type 1 concept of time/causality would still be bound by time/causality, because our standards state specifically that they need to be completely independent of the part of reality they govern. Thus, the concept would be independent of all time/causal systems like a type 5 acausal would be.

So, what's up with that?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Pretty sure we don't assume two Type 5 Acausal beings can affect one another just because they're the same type of existence. Made that mistake in a vs battle assuming two transdual beings would just cancel out each other's transduality.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Yep

 

[Delta333]

Pretty sure we don't assume two Type 5 Acausal beings can affect one another just because they're the same type of existence. Made that mistake in a vs battle assuming two transdual beings would just cancel out each other's transduality.

I mean most of acau 5 characters can interact with their own bodies so yea most of them should have ability to interact with another acau 5 chacraters

 

[Jinsye]

Pretty sure we don't assume two Type 5 Acausal beings can affect one another just because they're the same type of existence. Made that mistake in a vs battle assuming two transdual beings would just cancel out each other's transduality.

Fairly sure this isn't true for Acausality. If a type 5 acausal can afflict change on themselves then they should be able to afflict change on another.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mean most of acau 5 characters can interact with their own bodies so yea most of them should have ability to interact with another acau 5 chacraters

Fair enough.

 

[Jinsye]

Bump

 

[Vietthai96]

against power like Acausality, NEP, Transdual, without feat it mean nothing

 

[Jinsye]

against power like Acausality, NEP, Transdual, without feat it mean nothing

Yeah but in my opinion it's kind of silly to assume the type 1 concept of time is bound by time.

It wouldn't be bound by time in the same sense that an acausal 5 isn't bound by time.

 

[Jinsye]

bump

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

This makes sense to me, unless if someone wants to explain why a type 1 concept of time/causality would still be bound by those things when by its very definition it’s supposedly independent of them.

 

[Jibz]

Arceus?

 

[Sniper670]

Arceus is not a concept

 

[Greatsage13th]

Arceus is not a concept

He is not, but he possesses his own.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

bump

 

[Sniper670]

He is not, but he possesses his own.

Which is what?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Which is what?

Can't really answer this anymore as Arceus already has NEP on his profile already.

 

[RamizDayii]

Manipulating a concept of causality is not the same as transcending a concept of causality. But if the type 5 Acausality is in a lower reality than the type 1 concept being manipulated, it's okay for the character in the higher reality to affect the type 5 acausality. It is just a fallacy that type 5 automatically transcends all causality.
But using direct contexts instead of assumptions always leads to more accurate answers.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Pretty sure we don't assume two Type 5 Acausal beings can affect one another just because they're the same type of existence. Made that mistake in a vs battle assuming two transdual beings would just cancel out each other's transduality.

Why is that the case if i may ask ? I thought u can cancel out a transduality user with another transduality user (Assuming that they have the same transduality) since they are practically beings with the same type of existence.