Abstract Concepts

[Aetheric Pariah]

How powerful is being a concept against characters who don't have conceptual manipulation? Is it a straight up stomp or can a character without conceptual manipulation beat a concept through sheer hax?

 

[Antoniofer]

How much personal power or hax a concept may have it depends of the verse, it may not be necessary powerful or haxxed. Naturally, a concept is an idea and one can't simply touch it (it may be nigh-omnipresent within its domain or be localized in an special place), but if its an embody/physical construct it can be touched.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

If you have Abstract Existence (Type 1). Then you can't be affected unless someone damages the concept itself. If it's a Type 3 Conceptual Being. Then destroying everything it represents would kill the being.

A character who doesn't have conceptual manipulation vs a character who is a concept more often then not would end badly for the character without conceptual manipulation but Non-Physical Interaction means one can interact with a concept without explicitly having Conceptual Manipulation depending on the context.

There are also states of being such as Transduality, Higher-Dimensional Existence and possibly a few Acausality types which can counter Conceptual Beings depending on the context.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So if a person for example has Type 2 Abstract Existence, a person with Non-Physical Interaction could interact with them?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

No Type 2 Abstract Existence means a character can actually be physical and directly interact-able because they aren't actually the concept itself, they are a physical embodiment of it. Type 1 Abstract Existence is where a character is actually the concept and they are non-physical because of it. Interacting with them requires a type of Non-Physical Interaction but not everyone who has Non-Physical Interaction can interact with concepts and are limited to souls maybe. It depends.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

No Type 2 Abstract Existence means a character can actually be physical and directly interact-able because they aren't actually the concept itself, they are a physical embodiment of it. Type 1 Abstract Existence is where a character is actually the concept and they are non-physical because of it. Interacting with them requires a type of Non-Physical Interaction but not everyone who has Non-Physical Interaction can interact with concepts and are limited to souls maybe. It depends.

Ok so with Type 2 Abstract Existence and the Abstract having Conceptual Manipulation themselves, if the person they are going against doesn't have Conceptual Manipulation, could that person kill the abstract?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

There are two types of Abstract Existence.

Type 1: Character is actually the concept

Type 2: Character is a physical embodiment of the concept

You don't need Non-Physical Interaction to kill the physical embodiment, you can kill it with brute force potentially. The only issue is because of them being an embodiment of the concept, they could come back. Prime example are gods from Saint Seiya.

If the Type 2 Abstract has Conceptual Manipulation it can depends on a few factors, how "powerful" it is like degree of influence. Are they limited to their own concept, say Death. Or can they manipulate any concept. There's various factors which can influence who would win but in regards to killing, a really strong Low 2-C can kill a 10-B with Abstract Existence Type 2.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Ahh ok. What I was meaning was that there is a character that is the Physical Embodiment of the concept of Hope. What I was meaning is that could someone who isn't prone to facing Concepts beat him with hax that he might not have resistance to if they don't hax to "kill" the concept? (Sorry if that sounds confusing)

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yeah they could. Type 2 Abstract Existence means they don't have to hit the concept to hit the character. Even if someone who hasn't faced a physical embodiment before does it.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

So they could kill the concept itself which is Abstract Type 1, but is simply inside of a physical body. (Concept of Hope was absorbed per say). For ex. Sealing, Could a person who has sealing but has never sealed or can't seal a concept Seal the person who has the concept of Hope inside of him?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

No not the concept itself. Just the Type 2 embodiment which is physical. Killing the embodiment doesn't affect the actual concept.

Having a concept "inside" them is quite a difficult thing to conceptualise. If the physical body is 3D and binds the concept to it and is sealed within the body already then the physical body itself is sealed by another character who can't seal concepts but can seal physical things. I'd imagine the concept would go with the physical body.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

No not the concept itself. Just the Type 2 embodiment which is physical. Killing the embodiment doesn't affect the actual concept.
Having a concept "inside" them is quite a difficult thing to conceptualise. If the physical body is 3D and binds the concept to it and is sealed within the body already then the physical body itself is sealed by another character who can't seal concepts but can seal physical things. I'd imagine the concept would go with the physical body.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up. One last question, this certain person is able to absorb concepts and harm concepts. He is the Concept of War, Death, and Hope. (The verse hasn't been added yet) Theoretically he would have Low-Godly regen, and Death Manipulation on a conceptual level. Could someone who hasn't faced concepts at all before (Type 1 or 2) beat that character without sealing him with hax this person doesn't have resistance to? (This is so confusing on paper)

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

If the character can absorb concepts and harm them then it's likely they will defeat many characters on the wiki. If a character hasn't faced conceptual beings before then they most likely will be unable to defeat that character unless they have hax that works on their level somehow without having faced any such threats in verse. I can't think of any examples. So in all the cases I can think of, no.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Ok, but sealing would work on him because he is still physical per say. Even if this person has never shown the ability to seal at a conceptual level, if it's a physical body they could still seal?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

They could seal the physical body but not the concept, yes. Unless the concept is actually tied to the physical body.

Normally a Type 2 Abstract wouldn't have a concept within them. The concept would just be omnipresent throughout space or something

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I guess I was asking 2 questions at once, but this person isn't an Abstract and he doesn't have Abstract Existence, but is Those concepts on a level where he had Madness Manipulation Type 3.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

So they can manipulate concepts at that level? Then is depends on who they are fighting to be honest. With different characters, different abilities and mindset etc there are many possibilities. Yes if this character isn't abstract and they are physical, they can be sealed. Even if he can manipulate concepts to certain degree. It is unlikely they will get sealed before enforcing madness on their opponent though depending on how this works or how the sealing would work.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Ok, that was my thought on it but I'm not well versed on concepts.

One last Ex. This person who are those concepts doesn't have resistance to Spacial Manipulation. Couldn't someone with Spacial Manip and Durability Negation Kill him putting aside Regen?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yes. As long as they don't resist hax, it can affect them. Regardless of what abilities they have. If they're physical that is. If they're conceptual then probably not.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

That's what makes it confusing. He is those concepts, he becomes one with them once he absorbs them. Thing is, it's hard to tell if he is purely physical or not, because he uses weapons and does have a physical body, but is not mortal.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

There are plenty of characters like that. In Warhammer, we have Daemons using weapons even though they're abstract. Same with D&D.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Alright, I think that concludes that. Thank you!

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

NP