About Timeless Voids/immeasurable

[EFÍTÉ]

A specific Timeless voids stantard always bothered me, its time to make some changes.

Currently timeless voids isnt valid to give speed buff to immeasurable so, i proposing some changes to it.

Timeless Voids should allow for speed upgrade to immeasurable. And a case by case scalling on this aspect shall be done, instead of inforcing a stantard that can contradict how some verse works.

I did see two arguments used to defend the stantard: 1>Can be some hax. 2>Is time stop resistance. And please dont use timeless void note, that specific note targets infinite speed upgrade by timeless voids, not immeasurable.

Counter argument: 1: If is done by hax, proof is needed, otherwise the character isnt affected/restringed by the time and can move at any speed he wants by consequence (Note: It might sound i proposing a new stantard to give immeasurable by default, but i just counter-arguing, a case by case is still preferable).

2: Time stop and the complete absence of time is diferent things, one still have time and dimensionality but is stopped, the other have a complete absence of time and is dimensionality.


To summarize: Timeless Voids can be valid to give immeasurable speed upgrade.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We've had a long discussion about this and many more even before that and moving in a timeless void isn't going to grant infinite speed let alone Immeasurable speed by default. Saying someone can move at Infinite/Immeasurable speed when there's no time is kind of like saying anyone who can move in 0 gravity has infinite lifting strength and/or flight. If anything, a timeless void makes notable speed feats even less impressive.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Aw Shit, here we go again....

 

[manu_zarri]

i don't think they can be a valid argument for immeansurable, i neither think it's a valid argument

but you have some options

 

[EFÍTÉ]

I understand the comparison with gravity and where you want to get with that, but its seems lack of gravity doenst equate to infinite strenght, and comparing lack of time and gravity and implying what i arguing equals to me saying 0 gravitys means infinite strenght is wrong.
Any feat can be less impressive compared to another, and this have nothing to do with the thread, do not derail the thread.


You are literaly comparing apples to oranges, both are and works diferent.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

i don't think they can be a valid argument for immeansurable, i neither think it's a valid argument

but you have some options

Thats fine, i always had this argument on my mind for years and never sharing/having fixed view really dificults creating better arguments, really looking forward into getting learning some new things with the thread and better arguments.
Basically, nothing new will come without trying.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Aw Shit, here we go again....

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The problem is that there needs to be a flow of time to begin with to really prove people being capable of Infinite speed. Anyone can look like they move at Infinite speed if time is either stopped or not present. Infinite speed is just a character moves as if time is stopped despite the fact that time is not stopped; but character simply moves faster than time flows. Same with Immeasurable speed characters, they perceive all periods of time as periods in space they roam around freely in. Time being screwed, distorted, reversed, or erased/destroyed technically causes even finite speed characters to move at immeasurable speed characters. A character needs to be able to move through time as if the past, present, and future is just the present even if time is normally flowing. Timeless voids actually argue against characters being infinite or immeasurable technically speaking.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

finite speed and infinite speed character cant move in places where time is erased, there is a reasons why Goku on the erased timeline isnt considered a valid feat for him, and there is some irl logic that we apply. Those comparisons doenst even make sense, obviously they aint immeasurable.
And again, you are ignoring case by case scalling, and in technically sense, those who can move at places where time doenst exist, would perceive things on the same any immeasurable character would, if they cant, they obviously cant even notice what they are doing inside of timeless void.
And fiction often ignores IRL and logic and let their characters have those speed.
Again case by case is better than any stantard restricting fiction.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I heard of verses where time is erased and/or destabilized, but a bunch of normal humans were still able to move. Also, it is common in fiction that characters moved in timeless voids but the same characters move at clearly finite speeds when they return to Earth in the like.

And the difference is that the ones that are proof of Immeasurable speed have a lot more lore details than just a simple "A void where time doesn't exist." There really isn't that much details in the Goku example and Dragon Ball Heroes characters would very much already have Immeasurable speed a long time ago. Sadly, DBH having more than enough details for Type 3 void standards was sadly the reason a few staff members wanted to nuke the standards entirely again.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Thats why keeping the actual stantard related to immeasurable is bad and going with ''ah they gain immeasurable by default'' is bad.
Arguing made me see another point.

Thats why i wanting to try removing this specific stantard and go with case by case, information, consistency and etc, would be taken into account instead of straight no.

Thats the point of this CTR, remove this spefic stantard and let case by case do the job.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Cant be faster than something if that something does not exist on that place to begin with

 

[Planck69]

Agree with DDM, this is bunk. Why would this even be Immeasurable? How is moving in a place without time in any way the same as treating time as space?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I don't have good memories about Timeless Voids...

Welp, time to get the popcorns!

 

[manu_zarri]

but wasn't it finished yet?

 

[Reio35]

Its not like the author was thinking about goku moving in a timeless void would give him a speed feat lmao. If your talking about moving in the world of void that can be debunked cuz we see time pass in their. The tournament was 40mins so time exist.

If your talking about the goku moving in the timeline xeno erased. Goku actually used time machine to get their.So that ones kind of weird

 

[Hasty12345]

Its not like the author was thinking about goku moving in a timeless void would give him a speed feat lmao. If your talking about moving in the world of void that can be debunked cuz we see time pass in their. The tournament was 40mins so time exist.

If your talking about the goku moving in the timeline xeno erased. Goku actually used time machine to get their.So that ones kind of weird

yes, the stage in the WOV has space and time, it's everything outside that's the void.

hit's time hax works
the stage has a clock iirc
iirc, the material that the stage is made out of is found in the mortal universes, so it literally makes no sense for it to fit into a spaceless/timeless void.

everything about the WOV being a void is contradicted by, well, everything....

As for the thread itself, moving in a location without time is weird, on one hand the lack of existence of time can be seen as movement not bound by time. On the other, no time implies no standard of measuring speed to begin with so it's unquantifiable.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Medeus. This is a pointless discussion. We should close this thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll go ahead