About the I/O profiles

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Why does it feel like you guys forgot the previous scans I give everytime I bring a new set of scans. We already know the difference between these higher and lower realms is bar minimum a dimension like difference. The tower, and them ascending it, is used as a representation of the dreams within dreams within dreams.

What gave you the idea that the tower is looped in on itself? The process that creates the numerous realms is looped, but I have no idea how you guys got that the dimensions loop in on themselves.

I knew this would cause problems when I posted the single contradiction in the whole hierarchy. Which are we going to take, the single outlier of it not being infinite from poor wording, or the many many times that characters have stated it infinite? Marduk, who has a complete view, and her mother, both stated that the hierarchy was infinite several times. They have a complete view of it, as apposed to the one contradiction made by characters with a limited view.

I'm not. I am just bringing up the cases where infinite refers to the hierarchy since thats what we are discussing right now. If you want me to explain the numerous time lines, or infinite universes next I can, but we are discussing higher and lower dimensions are we not? I dont want to lose focus.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yeah. Those scans don't seem to provide evidence that the "tower" is composed of infinite spatial or temporal dimensions. And travelling to a place where there is no "past, present or future" or "here, there, or anywhere" is by no means qualification for tier 1-A.

And again, the characters (at least those who are currently rated as baseline 1-A) are specifically stated to be limited by quantum physics.

Way to ignore the previous context scene scans I've given my dude.

 

[Raian230]

I do not think we have done that. I am just stating that there is nothing contradicting them being limited by physics, nor anything indicating they are conceptually superior to the concept of dimensions.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally lean towards agreeing with Iapitus.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Why does it feel like you guys forgot the previous scans I give everytime I bring a new set of scans."

We don't, if anything you just seem to arbitrarily assume the highest possible interpretation of anything you post, even the original scans.

"We already know the difference between these higher and lower realms is bar minimum a dimension like difference."

No. That is only given once when the characters are discussing it. You can't arbitrarily apply it to every single "realm" in I/O.

"The tower, and them ascending it, is used as a representation of the dreams within dreams within dreams."

No it isn't. It's literally a looped recursion. It's not even infinite in 3-dimensions going by what you posted.

"What gave you the idea that the tower is looped in on itself? The process that creates the numerous realms is looped, but I have no idea how you guys got that the dimensions loop in on themselves."

The fact that the freaking scans state it multiple times? The part of them which you conveniently ignored? The tower isn't made of higher spatial dimensions, that is pure headcanon on your part.

"I knew this would cause problems when I posted the single contradiction in the whole hierarchy."

It's not a contradiction, it's a clarification. There is no infinite hierarchy. There is a seemingly-infinite recursion, which ruins your whole assumption. The characters thought it was an infinite tower, but then learned it isn't.

The tower has nothing to do with the so-called infinite hierarchy you insist exists.

"Which are we going to take, the single outlier of it not being infinite from poor wording, or the many many times that characters have stated it infinite?"

The former, because the later was built on a misinterpretation of the characters, later proven wrong.

"Marduk, who has a complete view, and her mother, both stated that the hierarchy was infinite several times."

No, they state that the world that Marduk made has infinite layers. It's a completely different thing. Stop trying to mix things that have nothing to do with each other to artificially try to overhype I/O.

'I'm not. I am just bringing up the cases where infinite refers to the hierarchy since thats what we are discussing right now."

Literally only in your first set of scans. All the others have absolutely nothing to do with the so-called infinite hierarchy. You debunked yourself with your last batch of scans, and I no longer trust you to handle the I/O profiles.

"If you want me to explain the numerous time lines, or infinite universes next I can, but we are discussing higher and lower dimensions are we not?"

No because you have proven to exaggerate everything in your explanations, which don't match at all what is shown in the scans. You managed to interpreted a interval outside of regular space and time that can fit with a 5th-dimensional realm as 1-A. You interpreted a recursion of finite size as an infinite hierarchy of infinite levels of infinity.

You are not analyzing I/O in an unbiased fashion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I personally lean towards agreeing with Iapitus.

Based on what? I debunked literally everything he posted.

Ant, I am sorry, but I cannot consider him trustworthy with I/O anymore. You can't simply lean to agree with him because it leans more closely to ACF, or because it leads to higher ratings.

His scans are objectively not of High 1-B or 1-A scale, and his explanations of the scans are explicitly wrong.

So far Iapetus has succeeded in:

• Posting the full scene where characters theorize the world has infinite dimensions, which when I discussed it with some other people they pointed out elements that indicate it being more like a normal multiverse, such as the comparison with Buddhism
• Proven that the Tower isn't infinite, much less a hierarchy of spatial dimensions
• Proven that the realm outside the tower isn't infinite

And failed in:

• Showing High 1-B feats
• Showing 1-A feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So far, I've only found proof of 2-B I/O

TFW this turns out to not be proof of a multiverse at all, but only a number of recursions in a system.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I do not think we have done that. I am just stating that there is nothing contradicting them being limited by physics, nor anything indicating they are conceptually superior to the concept of dimensions.

I'll say this again, I don't know which part of the game that scan came from. If you have context for it, i would like to see it. Unless that came from the last route of the game, they likely surpassed that limitation at that end

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So, can we see a single High 1-B feat?

 

[Raian230]

@Iapitus It's from the first set of scans that Antvasima posted on this thread.

"For in exchange, you have been freed from the shackles of the flesh and reborn as a being exempt from all laws of classical physics; bound only by quantum theory."

If they are bound by quantum theory they are not 1-A. Being beyond classical physics is not remotely enough to qualify. Also, I agree with Matt that their needs to be more definitive evidence of High 1-B. We should hold I/O to the same standards of other verses when it comes to proving this tier.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

Well, okay, I suppose that I have been more inclined to go with the ACF interpretation.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

" We don't, if anything you just seem to arbitrarily assume the highest possible interpretation of anything you post, even the original scans. "

Idk i mean y'all immediately seemed to forget the context that this was talking about them ascending the hierarchy. Wanna explain how I do that?

" No. That is only given once when the characters are discussing it. You can't arbitrarily apply it to every single "realm" in I/O. "

That's literally how it works. A digital world, dream world, and physical world all are equivolent. That's like one of the core points of this series.

" No it isn't. It's literally a looped recursion. It's not even infinite in 3-dimensions going by what you posted. "

This is what I meant when i said y'all forget the context immediately. the thing that is looped is the creation of these worlds. Idk how you got them looping in on themselves when at no point logging in infinitely would have them log into a world they already logged into. Wanna explain that?

" The fact that the freaking scans state it multiple times? The part of them which you conveniently ignored? "

You mean the looped process? The Part that you took out of context?

"The tower isn't made of higher spatial dimensions, that is pure headcanon on your part."

Do you have any sence of continuity? They go from talking about ascending infinitely into higher realms, talk about some philosphy, them move to this tower that they have tp ascend. What else could the Tower possibly be in this context? You taking shit out of context is the issue here.

" It's not a contradiction, it's a clarification. There is no infinite hierarchy. There is a seemingly-infinite recursion, which ruins your whole assumption. The characters thought it was an infinite tower, but then learned it isn't. "

Except that they immediately go back to describing the structure as infinite after. Even in the same scene they talk about how every single possibility must be ascended through, that is infinite.

"The former, because the later was built on a misinterpretation of the characters, later proven wrong."

Except someone more informed said the latter was correct. It is the previous, not the latter, that is a missinterpritation.

" No, they state that the world that Marduk made has infinite layers. It's a completely different thing."

They were literally made the exact same way, and are talked about the exact same way. They said it was essentially the same as Marduk's infinite layers.

"Stop trying to mix things that have nothing to do with each other to artificially try to overhype I/O. "

Appeal to Motive.

" Literally only in your first set of scans. All the others have absolutely nothing to do with the so-called infinite hierarchy."

Every single scan I have linked here has had to do with the infinite hierarchy, what do you mean?

"You debunked yourself with your last batch of scans, and I no longer trust you to handle the I/O profiles. "

First off, appeal to motive. If this was about trying to trust this stuff to people who have no alterior motive, then you shouldn't be working on this either. Funny how I/O only gets in your cross hairs when Death of The Endless starts losing to LEM. Or that Medaka Box gets downgraded by you immediately after Doctor Doom starts losing to Medaka. But whatever, Motive does not invalidate claims. If I was trying to artificially hype I/O then I wouldn't have brought up that last set of scans. I'm intelectually honest enough to address potential contradictions.

" No because you have proven to exaggerate everything in your explanations, which don't match at all what is shown in the scans. You managed to interpreted a interval outside of regular space and time that can fit with a 5th-dimensional realm as 1-A. You interpreted a recursion of finite size as an infinite hierarchy of infinite levels of infinity. "

Wanna give specific examples or just wave them all abstractly. Even in the number of realms specifcally talked about there are "umpteen" higher realms. I am genuenly confused how you got transcending numerous realms as 5th dimensional lol.

" You are not analyzing I/O in an unbiased fashion. "

Neither are you. Appeal to motive regardless.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Iapitus
It's from the first set of scans that Antvasima posted on this thread.

If they are bound by quantum theory they are not 1-A. Being beyond classical physics is not remotely enough to qualify. Also, I agree with Matt that their needs to be more definitive evidence of High 1-B. We should hold I/O to the same standards of other verses when it comes to proving this tier.

Yeah, did this come from the final route? Otherwise they likely move past that limitation in the final part of the game. I need context from the game my dude.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Matthew
Well, okay, I suppose that I have been more inclined to go with the ACF interpretation.

Are you gonna say that I am no longer trust worthy to work with this verse simply because he does not consider me to be. If this is about working on proving Bias some how invalidating points, then I can move to try and prove his potential bias as well. I trust you not to take something like this into account tho, you are a good guy

 

[ALRF]

>Funny how I/O only gets in your cross hairs when Death of The Endless starts losing to LEM. Or that Medaka Box gets downgraded by you immediately after Doctor Doom starts losing to Medaka

Going by your logic, Reinhard and Masada would have get downgraded since Doom lost to Heydrich. Yet Matthew didn't do anything

AKA this part is really irrelevant and is, and i'm gonna say it truthfully, pure shit and idiotic

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

>Funny how I/O only gets in your cross hairs when Death of The Endless starts losing to LEM. Or that Medaka Box gets downgraded by you immediately after Doctor Doom starts losing to Medaka

And this is relevant because? That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am currently taking a wait and see approach, in lack of better options.

 

[Raian230]

Yeah, did this come from the final route? Otherwise they likely move past that limitation in the final part of the game. I need context from the game my dude.

Honestly, I am not aware of which part of the game this came from. But if they overcome this limitation too, there needs to be evidence of that, which there is currently not in this thread. Simply saying it's "likely" without any other evidence is not enough.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

" Based on what? I debunked literally everything he posted. "

You failed to debunk almost a single thing. Pretty much everything you had is from taking shit out of context or appealing to bias.

" His scans are objectively not of High 1-B or 1-A scale, and his explanations of the scans are explicitly wrong. "

The fact that you call on your opinion and portray it as objective is incredibly flawed.

I have shown High 1-B. What would Marduk creating an explicitly infinite hierarchy of higher and higher realms be. You keep contradicting yourself.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Going by your logic, Reinhard and Masada would have get downgraded since Doom lost to Heydrich. Yet Matthew didn't do anything

AKA this part is really irrelevant and is, and i'm gonna say it truthfully, pure shit and idiotic

literally only brought it up because he tried to appeal that I was biased. I don't follow Masadaverse, but from what Monarch tells me its incredibly hard to get downgraded

Yes, appealing to motive is. Literally only brought it up to point out that bias flows both ways

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

And this is relevant because? That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Because Matt is saying I am untrustworthy because of Bias. I agree, bias shouldn't have to do with anything at hand. He brought up potential bias, not me.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Honestly, I am not aware of which part of the game this came from. But if they overcome this limitation too, there needs to be evidence of that, which there is currently not in this thread. Simply saying it's "likely" without any other evidence is not enough.

Yeah that's the issue. If I knew which part of the game it came from then i could possibly address it, otherwise I don't know. We don't have context, which is what this whole thing is about

 

[Raian230]

I understand that. I just think that since we have the scan stating that they are limited by quantum theory, we need overwhelming evidence to the contrary to show 1-A. The burden of proof should be to show that they are 1-A, not that they are not.

But anyway, I agree with Kepekley. This should not turn into any personal attacks on users. We're simply having a disagreement on the power of the verse, that's all.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The point is that, if the scan came from a point in the game when they were in the hierarchy, then of course they would be. It coming from an earlier point in the game would, in and of itself, debunk the relevence of the scan. So what we need is the context to prove it even applies

 

[Raian230]

When is it stated that transcending the "hierarchy" means that they transcend physics entirely?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Is that what we are discussing right now? My point is, if the scan comes from an earlier point in the game, then its like taking that scan of Goku getting damaged by a rock and applying it to him in ultra instinct mode

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Iapetus, can you please no derail the whole thread by appealing to emotion and utilizing ad-hominen attacks?

The fact of the matter is, the "Infinite Tower" which you claim is the infinite hierarchy is not the so-called infinite hierarchy, which is only alluded to and stated as a thing in the first batch of scans you sent. All others have at best vague usages of terms like "infinite" and "layers", which can be referring to a ton of things other than the supposed-hierarchy.

The Infinite Tower is in-fact prove and stated to not be infinite, and the scans which you posted yourself show that. It is a finite, though extremely large program that utilizes recursive calls, which give the impression of it being infinitely looped, but it isn't. Even when they refer to it as infinite, they think it is because it is looped, not because it actually stretches infinitely.

Also what you described as a 1-A reality outside of the tower is not 1-A. That quote could fit a 5D realm.

 

[Kepekley23]

Goku getting damaged by a rock is filler and, even if it wasn't, has an explanation in the scene itself

 

[Antvasima]

Everybody involved should try to stay calm and polite, and focus on the issues rather than speculate about each other's motives. Otherwise we will never be able to progress in a constructive and analytical manner.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Iapetus, can you please no derail the whole thread by appealing to emotion and utilizing ad-hominen attacks?

You are the one who brought up motive into this, not me. Anyway, I agree, let's leave motive and 'trust' out of this and focus on points. So don't appeal to me being "untrustworthy" to invalidate my points or interpretations, ok?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, the characters being limited by quantum-theory puts a heavy dent in High 1-B.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Goku getting damaged by a rock is filler and, even if it wasn't, has an explanation in the scene itself

you miss the point. And yes, the explanation in the scene itself is necesary. I need context to look for an explanation

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The problem is, Iapetus, you are not presenting context. When the context behind the infinite tower presented itself in the final batch of scans, you tried to dismiss it as an "outlier", when in fact it was a simple reveal that the tower wasn't what the characters, and by extension you, thought it was.

 

[Kepekley23]

I/O having a recursive function wouldn't hurt its rating, seeing as a recursive program can be used to understand indefinitely big or potentially infinite data as well. It's in fact the most common usage in order to save some poor idiot's time.

Of course, if there are other statements suggesting a "loop", these should be used instead. I was just explaining that recursive programs don't prove anything in regards to the series.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

" The fact of the matter is, the "Infinite Tower" which you claim is the infinite hierarchy is not the so-called infinite hierarchy, which is only alluded to and stated as a thing in the first batch of scans you sent. All others have at best vague usages of terms like "infinite" and "layers", which can be referring to a ton of things other than the supposed-hierarchy. "

By your logic, the stair case not being infinite doesn't debunk the characters talking about the infinite higher and lower realms. Make of your mind. Either the stair case is the hierarchy or it isn't. If it is, then you get 1-A due to the qualitative difference. Marduk's hierarchy works the same as the hierarchy of dreams. If you say that they aren't the same, then you get High 1-B because Marduk can create infinite layers. The characters already established that each layer is a dimension like difference.

" The Infinite Tower is in-fact prove and stated to not be infinite, and the scans which you posted yourself show that. It is a finite, though extremely large program that utilizes recursive calls, which give the impression of it being infinitely looped, but it isn't. Even when they refer to it as infinite, they think it is because it is looped, not because it actually stretches infinitely. "

So you are saying that the tower is the hierarchy then? Great. If the realms do truly loop in on themselves, then they would have logged into worlds they had already logged into, which they didn't. The process is looped, not the hierarchy. The hierachy is proven and stated to be infinite as well, as the scans I have posted prove.

" Also what you described as a 1-A reality outside of the tower is not 1-A. That quote could fit a 5D realm. "

Sure, if you take it out of context then you can spin it as 5D. Just like taking Johnny's "infinite power" out of context can be spun from anywhere High Universal to High Hyperversal+ if you spin it right. InB4 someone takes that example literally

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The problem is, Iapetus, you are not presenting context. When the context behind the infinite tower presented itself in the final batch of scans, you tried to dismiss it as an "outlier", when in fact it was a simple reveal that the tower wasn't what the characters, and by extension you, thought it was.

I am collecting, uploading, and formatting context as best i can. I just almost doubled the amount fo scans I have by taking scans from the final route. Anyway, make up your mind. Is the tower the hierarchy or not? I am going off of Marduk's complete view. She calls it infinite. She made it and has a complete view. So I take her world over the limited view of the others, with the exception of the explanation of what the layers are

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Anyway, I'm gonna take a break from this so i can clear my head. I'll see y'all later. Please don't downgrade the whole verse to Street level while I'm gone lol

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Actually, before that, I would like to put out this idea. We should have multiple keys for these characters. Since they do end up varying in power for a lot of the story

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

From what I can see, the tower is not the infinite hierarchy. It's also not infinite in the sense which you insist it is, either. It is not an infinite series of dimensions each infinitely larger than the last. That is pure headcanon.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

While I disagree, do you see that the tower not being the hierarchy means that the tower not being infinite does not debunk the statements that the hierarchy is infinite? The characters already stated that the differences between layers is at least dimension like. Do you deny that?