About the Golden King

[Monarch_Laciel]

Possibilities are metaphysical though

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Metaphysical beings/constructs still exist, just not conventionally. Possibilities are just that, possible. They don't exist. The very nature of "being possibilities" is extremely paradoxical and defies all reason, and the glare erasing them is far more extreme than just destroying the existent, yet metaphysical.

Also, the Glare being different from the hand swipe makes no sense, since they immediately explain that the reason his hand swipe has so much power, aside from its mass and speed (which is a trifle compared to the reality-rending powers it possessed) was from the power of his eyes. The same power that fueled the Glare was amplified a hundred million times over and used to empower his strike, and yet the hand strike is immensely weaker than the Glare in his base form?

In addition to this, the Glare is deliberately stated to atomize and physically break down. It destroyed the body of the critter into "particles of light" even though that being was supposedly made out of possibilities and should not be reliant or even possess such a body. So not only did the Critter show properties counter what was described in inganock, but the implications of destroying a fully described Critter completely breaks the implications and power boost he gained upon entering his Ultharthotep form.

In addition, striking instantly, breaking time, and covering distance in literally 0 seconds is Infinite Speed, not Immeasurable.

And further into this topic, the Regenerationn of Tesla and Golden King is not valid. He is Mid-Godly for being resurrected by his tale being remembered. The thing he was reliantly immortal on was brought forth and he was brought back from non-existence. It was not by his only Regenerationn that he came back; if Neon died, he was erased permanently. Furthermore, why does GK have this? Because his powers are similar to Tesla's? Even if he did have the same powerset, Tesla is superior to GK, and thus unquantifiably greater than him. GK was destroyed and did not return, and instead of assuming that Gk doesn't have this power, we assume GK both had that Regen level from Tesla (which is already dubious) and that Tesla someone bypassed it, which is another power he doesn't show outside of this assumption. I don't really get why here.

Also, even though Tesla's profile doesn't show it, Tesla has no evidence of being an Abstract, Conceptual entity, and the fact that he can die without lightning being erased from the conceptual map of every individual shows that he is not such a being. A being that can manifest a body made of lightning? Absolutely. A being that is abstract, reliantly immortal, and conceptually bound to lightning? No way. And, once again, I know this isn't on his profile, but it is implied heavily and honestly should be considering what is accepted.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Monarch Yes but metaphysics isn't just about possibilities. Possibilities are apart of metaphysics not the other way around, possibilities are just what may or may not happen, metaphysics deals with that, and abstract stuff like concepts, reality, time, space, existence etc.

Ok seriously gone this time.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Metaphysics deals with nearly everything that exists, yet is not physical. Depending on what philosophy you subscribe to, concepts could fall into metaphysics, but concepts don't necessarily need to be metaphysical. But I assume the concepts in ignanock and Gahkthun are indeed the Aristotelian/Platonic concepts, and would thus be metaphysical. But possibilities are not existent. They don't exist, metaphysically or otherwise, until someone perceives the possibility. For example, there is a possibility that I am correct and GK isn't as powerful as we treat him, and there is also a possibility you're correct and GK is as powerful as we treat him (even more so, since he currently lacks space-time destruction). Those two possibilities would be metaphysical, as I am alive to understand them, and you will be as well once you read this (although you previously comprehended them anyway). If there is a possibility that could happen but is not perceived by anyone and never realized, it is exactly the same as something that doesn't, will never, and has never existed; therefore, possibilities are nonexistent. Even if the possibilities here were treated as possibilities perceived by us, and thus metaphysically existent, they would still be beyond normal metaphysical existence, since the constructs of metaphysics, such as the mind, would be metaphysically below these possibilities, which would be metaphysical constructs of an already metaphysical mind.

If you deny this and you say that possibilities do not need perception to exist, yet are not non-existent, then you accept that they exist in the same realm of the Platonic forms, in which all individual possibilities are "forms" or concepts that reality partakes in. These forms are essentially the highest level of conceptual existence, since they are independent and above all traditional physical and metaphysical existence.

No matter how you treat possibilities, they are far above attacking someone like the disembodied consciousness of a metaphysical being, such as Tesla (even though this metaphysical being needed a physically manifested body for some reason).

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Also y'all (especially the defenders of GK) I want to apologize for the massive walls of text I am putting out, but I am really not trying to make it big; this stuff is just complicated and needs proofs and examples to properly elaborate on.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I don't particularly care about tesla's and gk's mid-godly regen/abstract status, becuase i don't know enough to defend it because i don't know Japanese to read all the source material.

If the people who have read it, ie trex and fab who can solve this, don't show up to answer the questions about old ones and their conceptual status, then there is nothing that i can do about this and tesla and rosenkreutz will just be downgraded and argued for later when translations exist for the other series, side materials, and sequel to gahkthun, where more info is explained about gk and tesla.

What i will argue for however is that the glare does kill possibilites because critters were already established in the series and there is nothing that contradicts it besides the author not re-explaining again what critters are, this was already established years before in a previous series written by the same person, and the same concepts are involved in the two series ie cracking, scholars, rosenkretuz being a member of the society, something which isn't elaborated on in gahkthun but was already again explained in sharnoth, another series that came years before gahkthun.

Ok seriously need to stop commenting and go back to studying.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

That's fine; you go to studying. Since the original topic of this thread has been covered, it may be best if I make a new one with the currently proposed issues tomorrow.

Honestly, with how popular the series is (GK being sure hyped and all) and how this really comes down to a disagreement over interpretation (whether or not previous info is valid if nothing of that nature is shown and whether or not a contradiction exists) it may be a good idea to highlight or at least rope in some other unbiased neutral users, since we have already made where we stand in this issue clear.

But that is the worry of tomorrow; get some rest and good luck in whatever you're studying for.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'd just like to say that I've seen characters who can atomize souls in both Saint Seiya and Warhammer 40K, so the atomization of an incorporeal abstract is not at all strange to me.