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Celestial_Pegasus

VS Battles
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Speed​


Emilie


Downgrade to Unknown, with Supersonic attack speed​


Emilie is not a close range fighter, she camps out kilometers away, and snipes her opponents, there is no reason to scale her to Tesla. She just stood in 1 place and fired her arrows, while tanking Tesla's attacks.

Her arrows are stated to move at supersonic speeds (Chapter 7)

Tesla


Relativistic+ to Speed of Light​


The current scan on Tesla's profile, and the fight in Chapter 1 with Walther would suggest Tesla being lightspeed, but he himself says he only reaches near lightspeed (Chapter 5).

This downgrades people who scale so GK, and Mac i think.

Edit: After discussion below, it's been decided that statements of Tesla's speed or often conflicting, so it can't really be determined whether he is just near light speed or lightspeed, so both possibilities are being acknowledged.


Erich


Massively Hypersonic reaction speed
Erich's colors were able to react to Tesla's lightning attacks (Chapter 4)

Abilities​


Berta


Base​


Skill

Even when surrounded on all sides (Chapter 5) she is skilled enough to deflect countless bolts of lightning (Chapter 5). Easily dodged Tesla's swords (Chapter 5), which move on less predictable patterns than his lightning bolts. Has perfect accuracy (Chapter 5) even while falling in the air.

Vehicle Mastery

Can pilot her megamaton (Chapter 5), which causes normal humans to pass out due to how hard it is to pilot

Analytical Prediction

Some context here, Tesla is near light speed, while Berta is only MHs+, yet Berta was able to keep up (Chapter 5) due to being able to predict (Chapter 5) where Tesla would be in advance (Chapter 5)

Technology Manipulation
Her art lets her control any object with a human form, including automatons (Chapter 5)

Typhon​


Information Analysis
Can scan things to tell what they are made up of (Chapter 5)

Water Manipulation
Can fire pressurized steam (Chapter 5) at her target's


Radiation Manipulation
Typhon's eye is a thermal radiation device (Chapter 5), which can be used to melt things (Chapter 5)

Erich​


Invisibility, and Summoning
Can call forth invisible colors (Chapter 4) from another dimension

Mind Manipulation (2 layer)
Despite being under the (Chapter 5) effects of Tesla's suppression, which numbs fear, which Tesla used to free Erich's mind (Chapter 5) from his teachers mind control, Erich's colors could still affect Neon (Chapter 4). This would also scale to people who resist it ie Tesla

Edit: After going through all the evidence like in the "General Changes" section, it occurs to me that Tesla's mind control>Wilhelm's mind control, which is already layered for working on Berta. If Tesla can break baseline mind control, and it's more fundamental than layered mind control, granting Neon protection from mind hax, would be 1 layer of resistance, and Erich's colors can get pass it, so it has to be 2 layers.

Tesla resists the colors so his resistance would also be 2 layers.

Soul Manipulation
The color's burrow into the soul itself (Chapter 4). Again scales to Tesla. Also we already give GK all the art bearers ability since they all come from him, so all this stuff would be added to GK.

This also leads me to believe in Steampunck mind=soul, there was other evidence from Inganock too, but not touching on that for now, want to get these big revisions, and eventually profiles, out the way first.

Walther


Perception Manipulation
Can use Coercive Suggestion (Chapter 1) to cause people to be unable to perceive him (Chapter 1)

Emilie​


Supernatural Willpower and Resistance to Mind Manipulation (1 layer)
Through sheer will she was able to temporarily resist (Chapter 7) Wilhelm's attempts to brainwash her (Chapter 7).

Initially was going to go for limited resistance, because ultimately Wilhelm was able to control her, but as seen in one of the scans above it's Wilhelm's mind control + his phone, which was given to him by GK (Chapter 7), that was able to brainwash her, so imo she would clearly resist just Wilhelm's mind control which worked on Berta

Extrasensory Perception
Can sense the presence of others (Chapter 7)

Social Influencing
Her words alone can captivate others (Chapter 7)

Enhanced Senses
Can see Tesla (Chapter 7), despite being far away from his location


Stealth Mastery
Evaded the gaze (Chapter 7) of all the 300 people around her

Jo


Information Analysis
Jo's art gives her keen insight (Chapter 8) into the workings of the human body, which let her notice the change in Berta. She deducted it from Berta's facial expression, voice, body language (Chapter 8)

Air Manipulation
Can rip through the air (Chapter 10) unleashing deadly vacuum blades

Body Control
Can manipulate her flesh and blood (Chapter 10)

Instinctive Action
Her body can move (Chapter 10) on it's own regardless of her concentration (Chapter 10)

Social Influencing
Even other girls are charmed by her smile (Chapter 10)



Florence


Memory Manipulation or Perception Manipulation
Covered up the fight (Chapter 5) between Tesla, and Berta (Chapter 7), by manipulating either the senses or memories (Chapter 5) of the people around (Chapter 7)

Information Analysis
The nature of her art makes it so nothing can remain hidden from her eyes, not even the feelings in the hearts of others (Chapter 8)

Limited Precognition

Florence had a premonition (Final Chapter Part 1) that Golden King would attack the Smilijas

Forcefield Creation
She already has this, but i want to expand on it, she can create shields, it's said that the light which creates said shields well up infinitely (Final Chapter Part 1). It's also worth mentioning that her art died hundreds of deaths in her place (Chapter 12).

Sequence of events is this: she shows up her art dies for her, she summons a critter which dies, and then from the remains of the critter she forms a shield, seems to me her art has some regenerative capability.

This is all to say, even if she is out match against someone, as she was vs GK, she could still defend herself via constantly regenerating shields.

Wilhelm


Perception Manipulation
Can use coercive suggestion to cause people to overlook things (Chapter 3)

Memory Manipulation
Can manipulate (Chapter 3) the memories of others (Chapter 3)





Tesla​


Base​


Memory Manipulation
Made Neon's memories (Chapter 1) of being almost murdered (Chapter 1) less vivid (Chapter 1)

Information Analysis
Can tell whether something has been tinkered with (Chapter 2), and whether they are under the influence of mind control (Chapter 2) or possess supernatural abilities (Chapter 2). Was able to tell that Erich's color (Chapter 4) were more deadly than any weapon (Chapter 4)

Stealth Mastery
Couldn't be detected (Chapter 3) by Theodore's sensors

Inorganic Physiology (Type 1)
As the avatar of lightning (Chapter 5) Tesla doesn't exist like other living things, his body is ethereal (Chapter 5), and not made of flesh and blood (Chapter 5), and doesn't even have a heart (Final Chapter Part 1)

Unconventional Resistance to Soul Manipulation
In Inorganic Physiology, i posted a scan which says Tesla doesn't exist within the world like a living thing, and it did mention soul, but here it's explicitly said his soul itself is lightning (Chapter 5), basically if someone has only manipulated normal souls, i don't think they can manipulate Tesla's.


Matter Manipulation
It was brought to my attention in the comments below from the official Gahkthun site, this statement about Tesla:

雷電魔人……異能。あらゆる電気・電力・電子を操る。

Which translates to: Raiden Majin (Thunder Fiend)...Superpower. Can manipulate all of electricity, electric power, and electrons.

Reality Warping
Again from the official website it's stated:

《世界介入》……基底現実を書き換える能力。使用の際にはFエクスペリメンツというアイテムを使い、その度に電界の剣の本数が一定時間減る。

Which translates to:

(World interference)...the ability to rewrite the base reality. When using an item called F experiment, the number of electric field swords are reduced for a certain amount of time.

So Tesla can rewrite reality in exchange for losing his electric swords for a while

Intangibility​


Tesla's swords are composed of formless light (Chapter 5)


Weapon Mastery
Was trained in swordsmanship (Chapter 5) by a master swordsman (Chapter 5)

Weapon Control
Can control his swords with just his will (Chapter 5)

Body Control
Can control every nerve in his body (Chapter 8)

Dimensional Travel
Can leave (Chapter 10) the Cracking Field (Final Chapter Part 1), which is within a riff in reality (Chapter 1)

Resistance to Biological Manipulation, and Force-field Creation
Surprising doesn't have this, he resist's (Chapter 10) Jo's ability (Chapter 10) which manipulates neurons (Chapter 10). Also as shown in one of the scans there, it's stated he could break free even if he was caught by an invisible forcefield

Acausality (Type 4)
From the moment Tesla came in contact with the Thunderbird which couldn't possibly exist (Final Chapter Part 2), he has existed outside the bounds of the world (Final Chapter Part 2), and it's laws (Final Chapter Part 2)

Unconventional Resistance to Life Manipulation
Tesla's doesn't possess a life (Final Chapter Part 2) like men of flesh and blood

Supernatural Willpower
Refused to die (Final Chapter Part 2), even while he was literally evaporating (Final Chapter Part 2)



Knight of Thunder​


Physics Manipulation, and Resistance to Physics Manipulation
Can bend all physics (Chapter 5) to its will, and defy all laws of physics (Chapter 5)

Time Manipulation
Can shatter time itself (Chapter 5)

Rosenkreuz/Golden King

Mind Manipulation (2 Layers)
Blanketed the Academia with Psychological Camouflage, making the students unquestionable believe arts to be blessings (Chapter 3). Made the Governing Council (Chapter 8) of the Academia (Chapter 8) agree to (Chapter 8) killing others (Chapter 8).

As i argued in the General Changes section Jo has 1 layer of mind hax resistance, the fact this works on her would make it 2 layers.

Also says here the only one it didn't work on was Florence, so she also gets 2 layers of mind hax resistance.

Telepathy
Can speak to (Chapter 9) the minds of others (Chapter 9)

Dream Manipulation​


Can appear in the dreams of others (Final Chapter Part 2)

Technology Manipulation​


Took control (Final Chapter Part 2) of the automatons (Final Chapter Part 2), which were under Berta's control



Intelligence​


Berta​


Extraordinary Genius​


Berta is able to manipulate dozens of complex systems (Chapter 5) to control Typhon, which is a weapon which is described in theory even by the most cutting-edge science in Europe, it's considered impossible to construct (Chapter 5)


Florence​


At least Genius, possibly Extraordinary Genius​


Not sure if it's just genius or extraordinary genius, Florence is able to remember (Chapter 6) not only the name, but also the background (Chapter 6) of the hundred thousand students on the island (Chapter 6)

Mac


Extraordinary Genius​


Mac is smarter (Final Chapter Part 2) than the members of the Governing Council. Without touching on what I will propose for Cracking in the next CRT, previous CRT's have accepted it being math manipulation, and physics manipulation.

Mac's staff is technology (Final Chapter Part 2) which uses the cracking effect (Final Chapter Part 2). Not quite sure where it's stated Mac created it, probably in some side story, but it is said he mastered it, regardless, being smarter than the Council Members like Emilie who are already Extraordinary Genius, should give him this rating too.


Golden King​


Possibly Extraordinary Genius​


The Bell of Gahkthun which is a terminal for GK to use, is stated to be a scholar machine which performs the calculations necessary to use Cracking (Gahkthun Encyclopedia). Not even touching on the absurdity that is Cracking yet, as that will be addressed in my next CRT, it's already accepted as being physics manipulation + math manipulation.

It's also literally said that GK uses cracking to grant arts (Final Chapter Part 1), and we see how varied that is, biological manipulation, stat amp, heck it even grants the ability to calculate the future.


However you can argue it's not confirmed that GK is the one who made the Bell, he just uses it so i am not pressing on this too much. Other more knowledgeable users can probably argue for it more. The description currently on his profile about the Kreuz Circuit, should already qualify for this, but this is in some side material, so would appreciate if the evidence of that being posted.

If not this proposal can be ignored for now till i find all the evidence.

General Changes​

Gifted Intelligence​

Every student at the Academia is gifted (Chapter 1), talented in some way with a good grounding in their field


Coercive Suggestion=Mind Control + Perception Manipulation + Memory Manipulation​

Coercive Suggestion works via mesmorology (Chapter 5). In Wilhelm's ability addition suggestion i showed how it can make people unaware of things, Walther does the same thing too, it's also stated that Wilhelm used it to guide Neon to Chateau d'If (Chapter 5). Here it's stated that Berta learned how to protect herself from it, yet their mental defenses were broken by Wilhelm (Chapter 5).

It's stated that when Walther was controlling Neon, she wasn't aware (Chapter 1) she was being controlled nor does she remember it happening (Chapter 1).

And in the last section i showed that Mesmorology is used to control minds, pretty much all the mind hax that's not Tesla or Jo, is done through Mesmorology, it's actually stated it is a field of study that is about the mind/psyche (Gahkthun Encyclopedia).

Suggestion Camouflage from Sharnoth as shown in my last Sharnoth revision also uses Mesmorology, and also can control minds and manipulate perception, this is consistent. In fact in Gahkthun it's specifically stated that Coercive Suggestion/Mental Manipulation goes by many names (Chapter 8). So it's clearly the same thing, just called different names.


In short anyone who can use Mesmorology gets mind manipulation, memory manipulation and perception manipulation, anyone who resists it, gets resistance to all those.

Physical>Mental​


This section is to basically prove that manipulating brain cells/cranial nerves is more impressive than manipulating a non-physical mind

Jo's Art​


When using her art of Tesla, it's stated that Tesla's mind wasn't working properly (Chapter 10). It then next says something even more fundamental took place (Chapter 10), than mere Mesmorology (Chapter 10, which i already explained what is it above.

Jo isn't mentioned to have great willpower like Emilie, nor is she trained in defending against Coercive Suggestion, like Berta, and yet Wilhelm's mind/perception/memory hax, which is layered, and neither Berta nor Emilie could resist, doesn't work on Jo

Tesla's Vajira Needle​


Tesla's needle (Chapter 4) was able to break (Chapter 4) the mind control over Erich (Chapter 4), this is confirmed to have (Chapter 4) been mind control/mesmerology (Chapter 4) that was manipulating Erich. And then it's directly stated that Tesla's needle is similar to Jo's art (Chapter 10)

In other words both manipulate the neurons, and yet they are superior to the non-physical kind of mind control.

Tesla and Jo effectively have 1 layer of mind/perception/memory hax, and 1 layer of resistance, also after going through everything it occurred to me that Tesla resisting Erich's colors would actually be 2 layers.

Art Users​


Blessed​


Art Users are blessed by the Academia/Golden King (Chapter 3)


Governance Council​


Extrasensory Perception​


Can sense (Chapter 8) the presence of others (Chapter 8)

Resistance to Memory Manipulation
Continuing the theme from Sharnoth, golden eyes lets users remember things they have forgotten. Tesla's existence cause others to forget him after a few years, and yet the Golden Eyes let (Final Chapter Part 2) the council members remember him (Final Chapter Part 2


Others​


Weakness​


Tesla​


While traveling into the underground, which is 2 miles from the surface (Chapter 3), Tesla starts disappearing (Chapter 3), cause he got too (Chapter 3) far from Neon (Chapter 3), so his "Throughout the series" key should get a weakness of being unable to get too far form Neon, who is the source of his power

Stamina​


Tesla​


Bit of a weird topic. As already apparent on Tesla's weakness section, after 10 minutes he can't go light speed anymore, so his stamina can clearly decrease. And against GK, he lost cause he ran out of power.

But that was a special circumstance, Tesla source of power (Final Chapter Part 2), Neon was in complete shock having being told Tesla "killed" her family, she wanted revenge. Now if Tesla needs Neon to keep existing, and Neon wants Tesla dead, the results are pretty clear, Tesla was literally dying.

We also see that he can't get more than 2 miles from Neon or he dies, so this is all very circumstantial.

Tesla has stated multiple times that his electricity is infinite (Chapter 8) and inexhaustible, though using it drains him (Chapter 8), so even though it's true his electricity can't run out, minus being away from Neon, or Neon wanting him dead, i don't think he could physical use it forever, as he said it's draining.

So i guess his stamina would be like X, Infinite with Electricity, though ultimately if he physically can't make use of his infinite power source is it even worth listing?

Speaking of stamina i think his pain tolerance should be Superhuman seeing as he was indifferent to all the injuries he got from Walther (Chapter 1). He also didn't care when Jo was breaking his arm (Chapter 10), and was able to pull himself back into the fight even after Wilhelm pierced and broke his body, and he was halfway to dying (Final Chapter Part 1)

So, ultimately Superhuman, normally Infinite with Electricity, though as i said idk if it's worth it to even index his electricity.

Everyone Else​


Besides Tesla, GK, Jo, and also Florence based on the stuff i posted under force-field creation, about her light generating infinitely, nobody else really has any feats of stamina, so i suggest they all just be Average.



And that should be all for now, there was actually quite a lot of information about the nature of arts and cracking, but my next CRT will cover all that.
 
Last edited:
Agree on all of them.

Just to comment on some stuff:

The Kreuz Circuit thing is hard for me to find atm but I believe it was there simply because it has part of Rosenkreuz's name in it and it's also mentioned of being in use by the Society to make Copy Fausts (basically machines wearing the "skin" of an Old On meant to imitate the Meta-Critters Mary encountered in Sharnoth setting), and Walther even mentions using it when he fought Tesla in Chapter 1 which the other members of Council Board or whatever they're called in ENG again also mention its use. But I haven't found that Golden King even made it. It wouldn't be off since it has his name and he's all about science, but actual proof he did would be nice.

Either way though, GK being at least Genius level should be warranted as Sona Nyl Refrain's glossary and Engine Dictionary (or another book I got for SN) has him listed as one of the Top Ten Great/Erudite Scholars. Specially the 2nd to inherit the "Great Equation" title...or whatever it is in ENG. So there's that.

Tesla being Rela+, not really against it. Technically, he has more statements of being thrown around with it but others throughout Gahkthun that state him of being light speed or near-light speed including himself on the latter. Though What a Shining League novel story does have narration describing him as the "lightning that moves at near light-speed". Idk, Gahkthun's just weird with not coming up with making him either SoL or Rela+. Tho if Tesla himself says he's Rela+, that seems to be the thing that cements it?
 

Tesla


Downgrade to Relativistic+​


The current scan on Tesla's profile, and the fight in Chapter 1 with Walther would suggest Tesla being lightspeed, but he himself says he only reaches near lightspeed (Chapter 5).

This downgrades people who scale so GK, and Mac i think.
A bit confusing here. Tesla's statements seem inconsistent in some cases. For example, he says he is 72 years old when his actual age is 92, and I think the same goes for Tesla's speed. Additionally, the narrative of Ourai no Gahkthun: Shining Night mentioned Tesla literally moving at the speed of light.

As for the rest, I agree.
 
@Sonoftanavast9 Updated

@Qliphoth_Bacikal Sounds vague then, probably best to just leave him at like at least Genius for now

@Mycroft_er Would have to confirm if it does say light speed, but wouldn't that also be a stabalized Tesla, not the one who is still nerfed from the Time Prison, and being unstable?

Honestly it is confusing we get statements like Tesla moving in a fraction of a fraction of speed, the time required for a beam of light to cross a room (Chapter 5), but also statements that say Tesla can move at lightspeed or something very close to it (Chapter 7)

Which is it, is he lightspeed or near lightspeed

what-confused.gif


Maybe we have to acknowledge both possibiltiies.
 
@Celestial_Pegasus Yeah until then, you probably just remove that too while at it. The rest of the stuff Rosenkreuz has doesn't really affect him otherwise.

Also for speed, that too. It's just confusing. Whatever the JP one probably said, the statements from characters and narration just ain't clear on whether he's this or that. Some will say one thing like he's lightspeed, other times it'll say he's only close or near it.

It's complicated. 🤷‍♂️
 
I am running through multiple series here, and multiple CRT's, you can take what i have here in terms of "layers" with a grain of salt, it's just me gathering evidence. Don't use it in a vs match, in fact, don't use any Steampunck character besides the Sharnoth ones in a vs match, cause they aren't done being revised.

When i am done i will have a blog or something with everything, be evaluated. We next have to go over what arts and cracking are, which will touch on a bunch of stuff like law manipulation, resistance to law manipulation, subjective reality, concept manipulation etc etc, and also "layers".

And even then i still have to go through Sona Nyl, which touches on it even more, like apparently cracking controls matter?

Anyway so far i guess i am gathering evidence, and basic approval that "layers" in theory exist, whether that's actually iron clad is to be determined later.
 
I think it looks good overall so I agree.

文字通りの光の速度で。

Regarding this it indeed says: Literally at the speed of light.

Though it is from the sequel so there is that. But if we have a problem I suggest maybe Rela+ to SoL as Tesla's existence in the first game was unstable so his power can be slightly wonky.

Btw his blades are called F experiments (which are the swords he used) and looking at Atwiki


《世界介入》……基底現実を書き換える能力。使用の際にはFエクスペリメンツというアイテムを使い、その度に電界の剣の本数が一定時間減る。

(World interference)...the ability to rewrite the base reality. When using an item called F experiment, the number of electric field swords are reduced for a certain amount of time.

This translates to the fact he lost several of his 5 swords if you use this cheat code essentially for the minigame.

When you don't have a skill issue with the minigame.

Skill issue with minigame results in...:

Robot loses a shield

Loses two sword.

We could add this since it could affect Tesla if he has to use them to interfere with the world. Idk if we can add smth like reality warping and maybe causality (as it was based on the stories of the past) with these blades but with the weakness of him unable to use it for a certain amount of time (days to weeks likely).
 
Rela+ to SoL for Tesla works best yes.

Google translate of that page, tells me Tesla can manipulate electronics and electrons, is that true?
 
Rela+ to SoL for Tesla works best yes.

Google translate of that page, tells me Tesla can manipulate electronics and electrons, is that true?
Probably the best to do for speed here, yeah.

Also yeah, it's from his summary on the official Gahkthun website.

雷電魔人……異能。あらゆる電気・電力・電子を操る。

Raiden Majin (Thunder Fiend)...Superpower. Can manipulate all of electricity, electric power, and electrons.

Mangagamer's translated version of it just put it as "manipulate electricity in all of its forms" or something of that line.
 
Ok, so reality warping with World Intervention, technology manipulation, and matter manipulation for Tesla.
 
Cool, let me just update the op.

Then we wait for more input, in the mean time will try to calc some of the ap feats, or see if anyone will calc it.
 
I just took time having no effect, as meaning not aging.

I don't really take GK being an enemy of the world as being the same sort of existence as Tesla, he says that sort of thing about other people too, not just GK.

Tesla is special cause he is a fairy tale existence which shouldn't even exist, so the world rejects him, GK himself mocks Tesla for that weakness, and boost about science conquering fairy tales and that sort of stuff, in short i also don't take this statement seriously either.
 
Overall I think this is okay. I don't know the verse, so can't really give a more detailed response but the stuff in the OP looks good to me so I agree.
 
And that should be enough, there is nothing too crazy here, i think the next thread will probably need more input since it's going to get enough hax like concept manipulation, subjective reality etc.
 
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