About some of Composite Godzilla's abilities...

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I see that you brought up the IMP as an example of relativistic calc. The thing is, in that moment they explicitly mentioned that the flash was using relativity to increase the mass of his fist. He vibrated as speeds slightly under SOL. Since it was stated that that was the mechanic being used, it was allowed.

However Superman has also does the same thing and has not been stated to use the same rules (probably why it harmed him during the attack) however I feel we're forgetting something here, King Ghidorah's ability to manipulate gravity can distort physics as we understand them which seems to be why his powers are never quite consistent with how the rules work. He's flown without his wings, his organic body is perfectly fine in space and he's been shown unaffected by planets no matter their gravity (he likely bends it to suit his desire) so it's not out of the question this is why he is so ungodly fast in space.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Not trying to interrupt you, but can we correct the profile and add my proposed additions (which have been accepted)?
Also, could Shin Godzilla's back breath count as some form of Danmaku?

Speaking of Shin: I've seen that Godzilla's Tier in Goji vs.Megaguirus hs been calculated by him boiling the water he was in. Shouldn't we do the same thing to Shin Godzilla's first form to calc his AP (since it's currently listed Unknow)?

You mean the photons from his back right? Yeah, that should count.

 

[fandom_2horny4u]

http://tarstarkas.net/2011/04/zone-fighter-episode-05-kingugidora-wo-mukaeutsu/

Also using FTL KE is very flawed and has been a basic rule of vs for awhile now

Oh and yes your "calcs" are pretty questionable at best

also you bring up the rebirth of mothra series which iirc is the same or an offspring of the same mothra in the heisei era but besides that you bring up a calc with no links, no scans, and not even any context

And again, every single ghidorah statement about planet busting is either a one time title or, when further elaborated, life wiping

again it's one punch man all over again

in fact vegeta has three moves (galaxy breaker, big bang attack, and galaxy bust) since arguably sayian saga at most cell saga. Yet no one is arguing universal or galaxy lvl vegeta in the cell arc

Realise the only thing backing up anything you mention is statements, which are iffy at best here

In fact we had to make a whole blog about why cell should be solar system because of the fact that it's only via statements in the canon.

And as I said earlier, godzilla has been around for over 60 years now, inconsistent statements are inedible

Pretty sure the only reason godzilla revisions take so long is because all of the opposing arguments are varying statements

It also doesn't help that there aren't that many supporters of godzilla on here in comparison to say sonic or warhammer

Oh and yes @dmb1 I agree with that

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

http://tarstarkas.net/2011/04/zone-fighter-episode-05-kingugidora-wo-mukaeutsu/
Also using FTL KE is very flawed and has been a basic rule of vs for awhile now

Oh and yes your "calcs" are pretty questionable at best

also you bring up the rebirth of mothra series which iirc is the same or an offspring of the same mothra in the heisei era but besides that you bring up a calc with no links, no scans, and not even any context

And again, every single ghidorah statement about planet busting is either a one time title or, when further elaborated, life wiping

again it's one punch man all over again

in fact vegeta has three moves (galaxy breaker, big bang attack, and galaxy bust) since arguably sayian saga at most cell saga. Yet no one is arguing universal or galaxy lvl vegeta in the cell arc

Realise the only thing backing up anything you mention is statements, which are iffy at best here

In fact we had to make a whole blog about why cell should be solar system because of the fact that it's only via statements in the canon.

And as I said earlier, godzilla has been around for over 60 years now, inconsistent statements are inedible

Pretty sure the only reason godzilla revisions take so long is because all of the opposing arguments are varying statements

It also doesn't help that there aren't that many supporters of godzilla on here in comparison to say sonic or warhammer

Oh and yes @dmb1 I agree with that

It's really only a problem with the law of relativity in play (but fiction gives that law the finger so much it shouldn't be an issue)

Do explain why. If you're going to deny something, you should be able to debunk it. Right?

That's because this site is atrocious with links when not on a laptop (which isn't going to be available 24/7) and with that said, that would make everyone planetary by scaling....which is kinda backed up in the movies. Dagahra and King Ghidorah '99 have been stated to be straight up planet destroyers, not life wipers like Desghidorah though we could scale him to planetary...he fought an entire Mothra army and almost won and if we do connect it to the Heisei Godzilla films Mothra is an accepted planet buster. But I just mentioned the straight feats from the films so no one could complain.

Incorrect. King Ghidorah has been stated to be a planet buster numerous times, but often times is either under control or just being too sadistic to just do it. However given his fights with planet busting Godzillas....he should be there automatically in those instances.

That's an attack name vs a factoid title. King Ghidorah messes up planets. That's just fact.

No, it's not just statements. This is from a Godzilla guide book and directly says Ghidorah destroys planets, not wipes them clean, but destroys them. Toho knows the difference.

There's guides saying he and Gohan were actually that level so it should be a yes no questions asked.

Except SpaceGodzilla's tier...it's just such overwhelming evidence being denied because it was a theory in the film. That's fine but only for the film. In IDW it's just said he outright did absorb supernovae and come from a black hole, same with the PS3/4 game. There is no "at least that's the theory" in the bio, it's just stated.

 

[Wokistan]

Superman was stated to have used the infinite mass punch, which was previously explained when flash does it. He also should scale to flash physically regardless. You don't need to explain the exact mechanics behind your attack every time its used. Giving it a name ensures that.

 

[fandom_2horny4u]

>guidebooks

guidebooks are leitrally a compilation of statements

And we already talked about spacegodzilla so I have no clue as to why you'd want to circle back to it

Zeus' title in gow is ruler of the universe does that make him universal? no of course it doesn't

One punch man.....speaks for itself

Nukes being the destroyer of worlds.......yeah I think you get my point (or at least I hope so)

You still haven't given anything but your word (which most here already disagree with) about rebirth of mothra. I question your calcs cuz @weekly already brought up how you messed up the numbers. Going futher would make this thread sound like a broken record player

So your arguments are only statements, guidebook or not, all of which are brutally inconsistent

Even if guidebooks > statements for whatever reason, this site still doesn't blindly accept guidebooks which is why planet kurama or light speed madara aren't a thing

also those same guides bucher mothras basic stats, say spacegodzilla is only approaching lightspeed, and mentions 120 million degrees is enough to damage godzilla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaaSCJyOLs

I know I know wikizilla but the info provided has sources and scans

So why should we trust the guides if they don't even trust eachother (many writers have disagreed with many implied stats)

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Superman was stated to have used the infinite mass punch, which was previously explained when flash does it. He also should scale to flash physically regardless. You don't need to explain the exact mechanics behind your attack every time its used. Giving it a name ensures that.

Except names can be misleading.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

>guidebooks
guidebooks are leitrally a compilation of statements

And we already talked about spacegodzilla so I have no clue as to why you'd want to circle back to it

Zeus' title in gow is ruler of the universe does that make him universal? no of course it doesn't

One punch man.....speaks for itself

Nukes being the destroyer of worlds.......yeah I think you get my point (or at least I hope so)

You still haven't given anything but your word (which most here already disagree with) about rebirth of mothra. I question your calcs cuz @weekly already brought up how you messed up the numbers. Going futher would make this thread sound like a broken record player

So your arguments are only statements, guidebook or not, all of which are brutally inconsistent

Even if guidebooks > statements for whatever reason, this site still doesn't blindly accept guidebooks which is why planet kurama or light speed madara aren't a thing

also those same guides bucher mothras basic stats, say spacegodzilla is only approaching lightspeed, and mentions 120 million degrees is enough to damage godzilla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaaSCJyOLs

I know I know wikizilla but the info provided has sources and scans

So why should we trust the guides if they don't even trust eachother (many writers have disagreed with many implied stats)

Because the SpaceGodzilla stuff holds water and denying it is still idiotic. And it is the vast majority of his info. Of course you get the odd higher or lower one but consistently he's there. Canon doesn't matter for composites, that excuse doesn't work.

Guidebooks are better than character statements because they come from the official sources and aren't biased like what a character's statement would be. If Cell says he's got solar system level ki, you could say that is him stroking himself off but when Toei and Toriyama say he can do it, denying it is just ignorant.

Also nukes were never stated to be that, they were connected to death. Which so happens so be the destroyer of worlds in Hindu scripture.

Yeah your own site gave him 7.14 megatons of output by hitting the ground https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TheJ-ManRequiem/Rebirth_Of_Mothra_I and had him absorb 50-250 megatons of energy before fighting Leo. So how the Hell is he only town level? Also your denial of this, the accepted calc for his profile, is just stupid. No excuses.

King Ghidorah's Earth speed is and always has been Mach 3. So no, the calc isn't wrong. Not sure where Mach 4 was pulled from.

"Brutally inconsistent" No, no they're not. The only thing inconsistent is how horrid the downplay is on this site-again I look at SpaceGodzilla because that one is just unforgivable. Or Vegito being the same tier as Cell. Or every asshole from the Tournament of Power being Goku's level even though it's pretty obvious most aren't.

Also light speed Naruto is basically fact....so...this site has a bad habit of ignoring evidence, that's what it does.

The hypocrisy is strong. Wikis denying other wikis.

Because what is consistent shuld be taken as true, and what isn't should still be left on the table for discussion, not immediately denied like this site always does because as I said, it's the creators putting their words on paper so it is official. Death of the author doesn't appy most of the time to guidebooks.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

>guidebooks
guidebooks are leitrally a compilation of statements

And we already talked about spacegodzilla so I have no clue as to why you'd want to circle back to it

Zeus' title in gow is ruler of the universe does that make him universal? no of course it doesn't

One punch man.....speaks for itself

Nukes being the destroyer of worlds.......yeah I think you get my point (or at least I hope so)

You still haven't given anything but your word (which most here already disagree with) about rebirth of mothra. I question your calcs cuz @weekly already brought up how you messed up the numbers. Going futher would make this thread sound like a broken record player

So your arguments are only statements, guidebook or not, all of which are brutally inconsistent

Even if guidebooks > statements for whatever reason, this site still doesn't blindly accept guidebooks which is why planet kurama or light speed madara aren't a thing

also those same guides bucher mothras basic stats, say spacegodzilla is only approaching lightspeed, and mentions 120 million degrees is enough to damage godzilla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaaSCJyOLs

I know I know wikizilla but the info provided has sources and scans

So why should we trust the guides if they don't even trust eachother (many writers have disagreed with many implied stats)

Also as a sidenote you connected the Mothra films to the Heisei Godzilla films, not me. I just put the straight feats from the films in.


Also King of Monsters trailer is awesome.

 

[fandom_2horny4u]

That I was unsure about hence "iirc" since it's likely they aren't but not impossible

At least now we actially have something those calcs


Also you say it like I'm a mod or something, I've mentioned I don't agree with everything on here and the site has plenty of topics and pages worth revisiting


The mentioned titles were examples that weren't meant to be taken literally, obviously, and don't even acknowledge all of em


You also bring up alot of things plenty of people have made threads and fourms about that just butterfly even further away from the point those topics gave an example for


Also didn't you agree with me that these statements can be "brutally inconsistent"

Ghidorah especially


Also if those games are really implying spacegodzillas origin then on one else or anything else in said games would aline and thus have to be an outlier.

The star lvl thing in any games would be godzilla and gorath from the pachiko machine but since none of us live in japan (and thats a rare game anyway) none of us can take to picture and translate it describing gorath as gorath.

Which even then was revisited to small star anyway so still an outlier if considered (which it shouldn't but lets give the benefit of the doubt)

 

[fandom_2horny4u]

Again

I don't agree with everything here and have had the big g at 4-B for awhile now but that doesn't mean I don't not see their perspective, or under these guidelines, as completely falsified scaling.


Vs is a very subjective ideal after all

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

That I was unsure about hence "iirc" since it's likely they aren't but not impossible

At least now we actially have something those calcs


Also you say it like I'm a mod or something, I've mentioned I don't agree with everything on here and the site has plenty of topics and pages worth revisiting


The mentioned titles were examples that weren't meant to be taken literally, obviously, and don't even acknowledge all of em


You also bring up alot of things plenty of people have made threads and fourms about that just butterfly even further away from the point those topics gave an example for


Also didn't you agree with me that these statements can be "brutally inconsistent"

Ghidorah especially


Also if those games are really implying spacegodzillas origin then on one else or anything else in said games would aline and thus have to be an outlier.

The star lvl thing in any games would be godzilla and gorath from the pachiko machine but since none of us live in japan (and thats a rare game anyway) none of us can take to picture and translate it describing gorath as gorath.

Which even then was revisited to small star anyway so still an outlier if considered (which it shouldn't but lets give the benefit of the doubt)

Personally I do have Leo at planetary but not from scaling to the Godzilla films, by the statements made in his own movies. Like I said, Dagahra was stated to be able to destroy the Earth-not all life on Earth that was Desghidorah and Dagahra is clearly stronger. And I believe the Elias twins as well as the Cosmos...cause they're connected to the Earth and all. King Ghidorah from that trilogy would then be a higher degree of planetary for stomping Rainbow Mothra when not at full power (he charges up against Armor Mothra later on showing his first fight wasn't his peak) and according to one translation has destroyed a thousand planets. However by feats alone these creatures should at least be mountain level rather than town level.

Well good.

One Punch Man isn't even Saitama's title. Caped Baldy is.

Well they can be, sure, since one movie we have Ghidorah being stated to be a life wiper and a couple movies later being stated to actually be a planet buster. And then in Zone Fighter he's going to devour an entire star which he somewhat succeeds at. And through scaling he is still at least a life wiper (Hedorah is confirmed one as well, MechaGodzilla has planetary durability for being built in a black hole capable of destroying planets and Ghidorah usually requires mkre than Godzilla to defeat). Then we have guides like this saying he's a planet destroyer. It's a lot of evidence to throw away and say "Oh well they don't all match hyuck hyuck hyuck"

How are they the outlier when they outnumber the movie? And the comics as well which take the origin as fact? Really the vast majority says yes and only a few examples are iffy.

Gorath was used by name in other Godzilla media and unless you think it was an actual star, Gorath is the only thing that fits the scale and behavior of the thing Godzilla blew up. Also...small star? That was to stop it, not to blow it up like he did. And the video evidence of it doesn't show Godzilla at max charge which means he can put out more power than what blew Gorath up. Also it should count because Toho made it and approved of it, unless you think some random people got in the costumes and did things with them which is grasping at straws. It was revisited and calced at 5× sun busting by T5 forums and I've seen calcs showing higher yields for vaporization and atomic destruction, other such things.

And it's not an outlier since SpaceGodzilla is in that game and Godzilla can fight him and as I stated Toho's later bio for SpaceGodzilla confirms the movie's theory as fact. So really the tier should be raised.

 

[Gallavant]

No, '54 Godzilla was reduced to a skeleton which was later rebuilt into Millennium MechaGodzilla.
Yeah, thats not a molecular rebuild, thats just Regenerationn. Ive read Rulers of Earth and no he doesnt. Ive watched every Godzilla movie and read all but the japanese novels for the most recent Godzilla movies to keep the profiles as accurate as they are.

Separate canon. Most Millenium films are sequels to the original Godzilla. In this case, Kiryu Saga was in an AU where Godzilla's bones were still intact.

The original Godzilla was reduced to small particles, which GMK Godzilla resurrected from.

 

[Gallavant]

No, its Low-Mid.
Regenerationn

Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, and even from severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection.

No they didnt, they said it was a theory and said theory has no actual backing as the scientists dont know how Spacegodzilla came to be in the first place. And yes it is heavily contradicted, the Spacegodzilla origin from the toy that was made alongside the movie gave Spacegodzilla an origin of being a pre-existing crystal being that came in contact with godzilla cells. There is no solid evidence backing Spacegodzilla being in a black hole, only unconfirmed theories as stated directly by the scientists themselves. Zone fighter is a completely separate continuity that doesnt tie into any of the canon Godzilla movies. The energy of the sun is only High 6-A. The gap between low end and high end Planet level is almost 50x, Godzilla would need a calc to be placed at Planet level+. No, that is the exact reason why we do not accept them as they lead to heavily inflated stats. Yes, going by numbers it is Large Planet level as the calculation shows. It was not star like.

Oh wow. I never thought I'd see this arguement. Burning Godzilla might as well be a building level freeze bomb haha

Theories are a big part of Godzilla lore.

 

[Gallavant]

@Crop It was downgraded because the feat it was high 4-C for was inaccurate, there's no indication it was Gorath as Gorath is never even mentioned in the entire game

The Gorath in Final Wars was far, far weaker than the actual Gorath, its best feat was Island level

Final Wars Gorath


Pachinko Gorath


The only thing I will concede is that the dimensions of Gorath has changed. The anime's new 30 km Gorath only weighs as much as the Moon.

This Pachinko version however, is no 30 km



Half way around the Earth...

 

[Xantospoc]

Only that it later turns out when the Asteroid comes that doesn't even look close to Gorath

 

[Gallavant]

Only that it later turns out when the Asteroid comes that doesn't even look close to Gorath

Monster X's meteor is called something like "Flea Gorus", it had a separate name from real Gorath incarnations. It wasnt Gorath, Gorath showing up was a blatant lie from the Xillians.

So discarding that there are 4 versions of Gorath:


-The Final Wars simulated variant

-The realized Pachinko version of the Final Wars simulated variant

-The Original 1962 Gorath

-The anime Gorath


All four of these exceed the mass and size classifications of regular asteroids. Some have characteristics associated with that of black dwarf or soon to be black dwarf stars, emitting low levels of light from the surface.

 

[DMB_1]

I might need to make a new thread on Godzilla's abilities because this one has derailed into another discussion.

Though I'm still following it to see where it goes.

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

Monster X's meteor is called something like "Flea Gorus", it had a separate name from real Gorath incarnations. It wasnt Gorath, Gorath showing up was a blatant lie from the Xillians.

So discarding that there are 4 versions of Gorath:


-The Final Wars simulated variant

-The realized Pachinko version of the Final Wars simulated variant

-The Original 1962 Gorath

-The anime Gorath


All four of these exceed the mass and size classifications of regular asteroids. Some have characteristics associated with that of black dwarf or soon to be black dwarf stars, emitting low levels of light from the surface.

Gallavant the GODZILLA EXPERT!

For the ones who don't know he was the one who made the Godzillaverse in this wiki. He also made most of the calcs for it, as a Ex-Calculator member and knowledge person his opinion must be taked into account.

 

[Xantospoc]

This 'Flea Gorus' is new to me, I admit it.

 

[Gallavant]

Gorath was used by name in other Godzilla media and unless you think it was an actual star, Gorath is the only thing that fits the scale and behavior of the thing Godzilla blew up. Also...small star? That was to stop it, not to blow it up like he did. And the video evidence of it doesn't show Godzilla at max charge which means he can put out more power than what blew Gorath up. Also it should count because Toho made it and approved of it, unless you think some random people got in the costumes and did things with them which is grasping at straws. It was revisited and calced at 5× sun busting by T5 forums and I've seen calcs showing higher yields for vaporization and atomic destruction, other such things.

And it's not an outlier since SpaceGodzilla is in that game and Godzilla can fight him and as I stated Toho's later bio for SpaceGodzilla confirms the movie's theory as fact. So really the tier should be raised.

I would like to point out that he can indeed put out more than what destroyed Gorath.

 

[Xantospoc]

I would honestly be fine with the Pachinko Gorath's calculation if properly redone AKA without the assumption it's 3600 times denser than Earth, which is a trait belonging only to Showa!Gorath

 

[Gallavant]

I would honestly be fine with the Pachinko Gorath's calculation if properly redone AKA without the assumption it's 3600 times denser than Earth, which is a trait belonging only to Showa!Gorath

Anime has it, not just Showa. Saying its not dense is like saying Godzilla's atomic breath isn't nuclear just because its not always mentioned every single movie. Thats the defining trait Toho chose for it, density.

 

[Xantospoc]

It actually is given the sheer number of appearences

1) Gorath's original movie

2) A lie by Xillians where nothing about it was ever mentioned, and the 'real one' turned out to be an shell containing a monster

3) A much smaller one in the anime that is much smaller

4) Pachinko

The only thing in common Gorath has is that it risks to crash on Earth

 

[Gallavant]

So if I watch for example Godzilla:Final Wars, I find no mention of the nuclear breath's properties, its safe to say that Godzilla shoots high propulsive fire in that one rather than radiation?

 

[Xantospoc]

Here is my answer. And btw, it's explictly stated Godzilla takes place in the same continuinity as the original, so duh, they have the same properties as 1954 Godzilla where he was nuclear

How many movie does Godzilla have? 32

How many does Gorath have? 2, and in one it doesn't appear

Period

 

[DMB_1]

So if I watch for example Godzilla: Against Mechagodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo SOS, I find no mention of the nuclear breath's properties, its safe to say that Godzilla shoots fire in that one rather than radiation?

I mean, the Kiryu Bilogy is tied (other than to various other Toho Showa Kaiju movies) to the original 1954 Godzilla. You can assume it there.

 

[Gallavant]

So if I watch for example Godzilla: Against Mechagodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo SOS, I find no mention of the nuclear breath's properties, its safe to say that Godzilla shoots fire in that one rather than radiation?

I mean, the Kiryu Bilogy is tied (other than to various other Toho Showa Kaiju movies) to the original 1954 Godzilla. You can assume it there.

Then Final Wars?

 

[Xantospoc]

Again, false fallacy,it's like assuming every Mothra can travel through time because Leo did so or Godzilla is always part plant because Godzilla Earth is part plant

 

[Gallavant]

Here is my answer. And btw, it's explictly stated Godzilla takes place in the same continuinity as the original, so duh, they have the same properties as 1954 Godzilla where he was nuclear
How many movie does Godzilla have? 32

How many does Gorath have? 2, and in one it doesn't appear

Period

Kiryu Saga exists in an alternative continuity where Godzilla's bones are still intact. It begs to questio, how do I know 54' Godzilla AUv2 even breathed fire, if he didn't even die the same way?

 

[Xantospoc]

The bones of Godzilla are always intact in 1954. it's even shown in earlier experiments with the oxygen destroyers only skeletons are left

 

[Gallavant]

The bones of Godzilla are always intact in 1954. it's even shown in earlier experiments with the oxygen destroyers only skeletons are left

No they aren't. They just vanish after a few seconds. You clearly haven't watched G54 in awhile.

 

[Xantospoc]

Alright then. No atomic Godzilla. I will make the CRT for Final Wars and the Kyryu saga.

 

[DMB_1]

Yeah, they actually vanish a few seconds later.

 

[Xantospoc]

I swear I didn't know a meteor from an obscure showa movie and got referenced once more years later in what turned out to be a lie was as relevant as the most prolific Kaju

 

[Gallavant]

For the record, they made the small one have stats at 900,000 Earth densities

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There's There's time split, in one timeline the oxygen destroyer killed Godzilla by reducing him to a skeleton which was later rebuilt into mechagodzilla, the other didn't kill godzilla

 

[Gallavant]

There's There's time split, in one timeline the oxygen destroyer killed Godzilla by reducing him to a skeleton which was later rebuilt into mechagodzilla, the other didn't kill godzilla

Or alternatively another one shows up, in the early-mid Showa era.

I'm just making the point here that its hard to ignore the stats when discussing Gorath as not even the anime team does. We know for certain that the Gorath planetoid itself would smash straight through Earth like butter. And unless proven that the origin story changed in these movies, Gorath is the remnant of a supernovae, a solar core gone rogue.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No its canonically a timeline split due to the time travel in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah

 

[Gallavant]

No its canonically a timeline split due to the time travel in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah

That sounds confusing, as I didn't think Heisei era had to do with the Millenium films, short of the whole FW Godzilla is Heisei's son theory.