About Beerus's Durability Negation

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It was addressed in this thread, but anyways, I don't think we should give Beerus Durability Negation based on the reasoning. Yes Beerus can destroy souls using his Hakai but the only time we see this is when the spirit was roaming around without being within a physical body. Beerus has never shown anything to prove he can hakai souls when they are already directly dormant in a body, just that he can destroy souls at all.

So to sum it up, instead of Durability Negation, I believe it would better to list it as being able to destroy souls.

 

[Ryukama]

Even if we say Beerus can't destroy a soul in someone's body, Hakai is still treated as existence erasure and Void Manipulation, which is durability negating.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Didn't he destroy Zamasu's body with this move and that ghost guys soul(can't remember his name) wouldn't it be logical that he can hit both at the same time?

 

[Ryukama]

@LordGriffin1000 Yes. IIRC if not for Zamasu's acausality, he would've been completely destroyed and not appear in the afterlife. Which indicates Beerus's ability can also destroy souls inside of a body.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's clearly some sort of existence erasure. Most likely ignores durability, but we haven't seen Beerus use it on anyone he couldn't ROFLstomp normally (mainly because he's an immensely strong character in the verse), though that's not to say it can't due to its nature.

Souls in Dragon Ball are...kinda weird due to the nature of the afterlife. As in, it's somewhere you can teleport to and don't have to die to go there. Then we have King Kai, who lived in Other World, who was killed by Cell (who cannot attack souls) exploding, after which he went to...the Other World. Souls in Dragon Ball are not nearly as immaterial as most traditional interpretation, and seem to be things that can indeed be harmed and destroyed normally, should you also be where they reside.

Going by this, I'm not sure Beerus can really be considered to erase souls from most other fiction which uses a more traditional definition, at least not yet, but it seems to be at least complete erasure of someone from a single plane of existence.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Azathoth King kai was alive not a soul, he just lived in the afterlife so Cell could kill him no problem. I have never see anyone destroy a soul in dragon ball normally unless it was in non-cannon since I haven't seen all the movies but if you can show me a time that would be great since I have a horrible memory

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's the point. The afterlife is a place you can just live. Goku could teleport there, and King Kai being killed in the after life sent him to the afterlife, which effectively ended up changing nothing, and he still hasn't been wished back. Being a disembodied soul isn't really a big drawback in DB.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It was shown that Trunks couldn't even touch that ghost guy but if they could normally touch or destroy souls he would have. I don't really understand why someone being able to teleport to the afterlife and someone who lives their that dies stays their that means that souls in dragon ball can normally be destroyed physically. Unless someone is shown normally destroying anothers soul with a punch or a ki blast then I don't see the problem.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Didn't King Yemma literally fight the ghost of Raditz when he tried to make a run for it?

 

[Antvasima]

I am also uncertain about listing durability negation, given that we have only seen Beerus use the existence erasure ability on much weaker characters.

 

[Ryukama]

Existence Erasure is an ability unrelated to AP and Durability. Unless it's stated or shown that Hakai relies on power or that one can somehow resist it just by having a high enough durability, I think it should be treated as Durability Negation.

Even powers in DB that explicitly don't work on strong enough people we still treat as hax (Hit's Time Stop). I don't see why Hakai is to be different.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it does seem like a bit of a no-limits fallacy. I very much doubt that characters of Whis' level and above are not able to resist Beerus.

 

[Ryukama]

Durability Negation is now a No Limits Fallacy?

And I very much doubt Daishinkan is infinitely weaker than Fusion Zamasu. We don't give people powers or nerf others based upon speculation. If Whis has never shown resistance towards existence erasure, and/or Beerus's ability that logically should negate durability has never shown to only work on those with low enough durability, then we rate Beerus as having a durability negating power.

Like I said, even if Beerus can't Hakai people stronger than him, that hasn't stopped us from rating similar powers as durability negating.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, okay. Never mind then.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Didn't King Yemma literally fight the ghost of Raditz when he tried to make a run for it?

Yes he did but King Yamma is the one who judges souls and sends them to heaven or hell so its likely he can touch them and since we didn't see the fight on screen we don't know how he beat him. its likely he can manipulate souls since their is no way he manage to beat Frieza, Cell or Buu in a fight also I believe he said he was weaker then King Kai

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The afterlife in Dragon Ball is like a parallel dimension connected to the physical universe, where your soul goes when you die. But it is a realm as physical as the living universe.

 

[Joseph619]

It is very much possible Whis has resistance to soul destruction Whis has a lot more abilities than Beerus after all.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No proof tho.

 

[Joseph619]

Well yeah there's no proof however Beerus is a very cocky and egoistical person, he would've threatened to kill Whis if he knew it was possible. Despite being a subordinate Whis is quite disrespectful towards Beerus. But of course, there's no proof for this since Whis is almost completely featless

 

[Mysterymist_the_omnipotent_interplanetary_idiot]

we saw zams was still screaming after his head was erased so it is likely its soul

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

When you go to the afterlife in Dragon Ball, you go as a powerless ghost. Only good people are allowed to keep a body in Heaven, which 1 proves that the Afterlife is "physical", and that King Yamma doesn't need to do anything to throw people in hell.

All the scenes showing villains physically in hell are Toei Anime-Only filler.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Matt really cause I saw freiza actually in hell in resurrection arc with his body. Also why would Whis say "no matter if it's a person or a ghost beerus can hakai it" if their all physical? That was clearly trying to show that souls are different as trunks was physical unable to touch the ghost guy.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I want to know know how dose letting Goku and King kai keep their physical bodies mean souls in dragon ball can physical be harmed or destroyed. Unless someone can show canon scan of a physical being Goku or King kai for example physically harming or destroying a soul then I see no issue here.

Anyway Hakai is still able to erase people from exsistance which is void manipulation which is durability nagation right?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Isnt Void Manipulation being able to manipulate, well, nothing? How is erasing people the exact same thing as that?

And if the second part is true then how come not everyone who has Void Manipulation has Durability Negation?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with Ryu.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Kukui Existence Erasure is Void Manipulation.

 

[Mysterymist_the_omnipotent_interplanetary_idiot]

void manipulation not means manipulating nothing, it rather means removing an object from existance

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Void Manipulation can be manipulating nothingness, but it's usually straight existence erasure.

 

[Antvasima]

Azathoth is correct.

 

[Antvasima]

By the way, has this topic been settled, and if so, should we close the thread?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah you can close it Ant.