About BB's Earth Mother's Authority

[Monarch_Laciel]

@ryu Apologies. I was referring to Matt saying that AP/Tier alone could beat Authority

The wordings have been changed and I am fine with the changes. I am not trying to get BB's profile changed back to the "any" "all" wording it had before.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

AP can absolutely beat BB. Destroy the galaxy at Massively FTL+ speeds and she wont realize the **** happened.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Monarch, I think the problem is here what you said

Causality literally determines everything that happens on its dimensional level.

That is assuming Causality Manipulation is the best hax, better than other abilities and unbeatable.

I never said that made it the best and unbeatable hax. Look at Griffith's abyssmal causality manip.

But while there are many applications of causality manip, just like there are many applications of a lot of hax like concept, soul or mind manipulation, there are no levels of power for it as there are for these. How do you determine whether or not an action is "more casual" and requires stronger causality manipulnation to affect it? If you can, it certainly is not done by having a higher AP that causes it. How would being stronger make any difference to what "level" of causality manipulation is required to erase an effect?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

So we are ignoring 6D, and now 8D, quotes because they 'contradict the overall scale of the verse and are just numbers thrown there'? Avalon is no longer considered 6D defense?

I don't think it's a good argument. Debunk the feats, find something wrong with them and then you can call them invalid. But not because it doesn't scale well. How are they ever going to get an upgrade that way? From the quotes that I posted in the BB content revision thread and the ones that Reppuzan posted we can clearly see that the wordings are chosen carefully. Mechanics are carefully explained. This was not written by some child who knows nothing about physics.

Also, 'she wont realize the **** happened'. There was a wall of text explaining that she can view past, present and future at the same time like she is looking at a book. How is she going to be surprised?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

AP can absolutely beat BB. Destroy the galaxy at Massively FTL+ speeds and she wont realize the **** happened.

Apart from, idk being a cosmic aware, hyper advanced AI . Also you can destroy the Galaxy at whatever speed you want. Speed less than immeasurable (maybe infinite) won't bypass her Authority's passive causality manipulation, and a galaxy level AP is not making the effect of BB being hurt more or less difficult to be erased

 

[Joseph619]

How do you determine whether or not an action is "more casual" and requires stronger causality manipulnar ion to affect it?

We determine that using feats. For example, Itachi Uchiha (who is a very good telepath, by the way) said nobody without Uchiha blood can break Tsukuyomi. And in Naruto, only Sasuke was able to break it. Kakashi was unable to break it even having Sharingan. Now should we assume Itachi can beat any telepath who doesn't have Uchiha blood just because Tsukuyomi was shown unbeatable in the series? Assuming Itachi could beat the likes of Emma Frost using that logic would be fallacious. We use feats and determine limits of each ability. Of course, attack potency has nothing to do with this. Even abilities have their limits. All abilities are subject to NLF.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You at literally saying that Causality Manipulation has infinite speed. It doesn't have.

Last time I checked she was only FTL or so.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Aside from the fact that the best feat of the verse is 4-B excluding the supreme being?

Aside from the fact that it would make characters who barely have Planetary feats and can be killed by Tier 5 and 4 attacks Multiversal? Aside from the fact that they are literally just random numbers mentioned once to sound scientific and never elaborated upon?

Higher-Dimensional Nasuverse is not legitimate. It barely goes beyond Low 2-C without having to resort to it.

Also, Cosmic Awareness =/= Physical speed. You can absolutely kill BB through AP and speed alone.

People don't like to admit this, but most characters who are physically weak but can haxstomp Dragon Ball would be fodderized in a match with speed unequal.

Also, Swag, the burden of proof is in you to actually prove that the Spatial Dimensions in Nasuverse work on a Geometric scale, and that Avalon can actually block attack from Mr.Mxy, a character who solos the Nasuverse by feats sans Akasha.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Joseph, to use your example, the power of mind manipulation can be measured by things like how many it can affect, and what actions it can make them take that they normally wouldn't. The power of causality cannot be measured like that. All cause and effect is cause and effect. You cannot measure what level of causality manipulation would be required to negate a punch from a galaxy buster. While I suppose you could measure the power of a causality manipulator from them using it against another causality manipulator and seeing who wins, that would more be a matter of skill.

@Matthew, ok, you may have a point there, although the power is passive and does not require her actiavtion and is faster than she is. Rep (or any Fate fan), what would happen if BB was speedblitzed and killed before the Authority could activate? Edit: Actually, it is basically invulnerability and power immunity granted by causality manip. I don't think speed can overwhelm it, seeing as Authority doesn't really need to activate, it is always on.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Oh, so if there aren't some universal scale explosions the verse is extremely weak? Except these higher dimensions are now mentioned twice. Three times if you count Roman's statement: "However, several pieces of supporting evidence exist. Hence we predict Divine Spirits exist in a higher dimension." Although this statement isn't anything major on its own, it's still a statement made by Solomon himself.

Yes, I shall immediately ask Nasu to provide you with necessary explanations regarding his use of higher dimensions in Nasuverse. I think more people should state their opinion on this matter, especially since you edited her page without even discussing it properly with others. Whether it was the right decision or not, it still requires discussions and approval from others.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Swag

Dimensions can be mentioned a lot, and the fact that they are randomly mentioned here and there by characters who cap at Tier 5 outside of one feat from amped Kiara, and hints related to Saver and Amaterasu, seems to point out that they are not legitimate.

Even Scathach would be Tier 1 if you accept the dimension statements in the Nasuverse

Don't be so passive-aggressive towards me. The burden of proof is still on you, and the higher you go up the Tiering System, the more evidence is required. We typically have 100+ post discussions involving multiple staff to upgrade any major verse to Tier 1, or even from Tier 1 to a higher tier.

For Marvel and DC, which have FAR more proof than the Nasuverse, it took months of discussion.

Also, people are still uncertain on Kiara's 4-B feat and who it would even scale to.

In regards to the Edit of BBs profile, three Staff Members are fine with it. And the other staff who posted here have not objected to it.

I'm sorry, but Arcueid will not become 1-C anytime soon.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Who said anything about upgrading every Nasuverse character? Why don't we downgrade Akasha then? Why is it still 6D?

I am passive-aggressive now? For stating my opinion or is my wording offensive? Note that it was you who used expressions like 'she wont realize the **** happened.'. The burden of proof is not on me. Whoever wishes to discuss those quotes is free to do so. People are uncertain on Kiara's 4-B feat because there is one post a day on that revision thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes, I shall immediately ask Nasu to provide you with necessary explanations regarding his use of higher dimensions in Nasuverse

I was referring to this statement when I said you were passive-aggressive.

My line that used swearing was just me being informal towards the BB discussion, referring to her being speedblitzed.

I didn't tell anyone to "f*** themselves". Though if you don't like it, I can cease it.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Use of sarcasm is not passive-aggressive. To my knowledge he never talked about it. And even when he says something you can't know if he's joking or not, such is the case with Void Shiki's statement. If someone here knows how to get to him, then they should try asking him some questions about this, or someone who works with him. Nothing I've found so far explains it in details. Though I am not an expert in physics or mathematics to really know if something could be used to prove that those dimensions really work on geometric scale.

My suggestions is, read what I've wrote in the content revision, see what can be used and what can't. (https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/806430)

You already seemed to agree on Cosmic Awareness There is a quote about her crossing infinite distance, though I am not too optimistic on that. Perhaps write a note on Nasuverse or Akasha's page indicating that there have been mentioning of 6D and 8D, but with no real explanation.

Also, forgive me. I lost my composure.

 

[Reppuzan]

@ThisIsMySwagPack

At the absolute least, there are multiple statements of characters breaking the speed of light, with BB doing so while being casual as did the player's Servants once they got their Root of the Beginning Mystic Codes.

Here's the statement of BB crossing 404 light years which was then stretched to an infinite distance by the Moon Cell's Reality Warping powers.

"This is the borderline that lies between the seventh layer and Moon Cell Nucleus. Virtual Spiritrons are made of light, and it's warned that at the speed of light it would take 404 years to get past this border and to the computer addresses which lie beyond. This essentially communicates "that address doesn't exist" to anyone/anything attempting to pass.

It's actually an infinite distance that cannot be covered even if you try for centuries.

The only thing that can serve as a bridge across the borderline to connect Moon Cell Nucleus to the normal address space is the arena that Moon Cell made to summon the victor of the Holy Grail War.

…Is how it's supposed to be, but BB used an imaginary number space to force herself to become an infinite concept, and by using a fake arena she managed to break past the borderline.

When she decided to take on the massive problem of getting past 404 Light Years, her words were filled with determination, "Blossom Vaportrail. 38000 Light Years."

A vaportrail is the stream of vapor left behind by airplanes when they fly. 38000 is suggestive of the distance from the Earth to the Moon."

It's probably just an application of her hax, but she did cross an infinite distance.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Yeah, I don't know how to interpret that. If you think it's valid then would it be listed under her abilities or her speed? Can it be applied in combat even though it's used outside of combat?

 

[Reppuzan]

@ThisIsMySwagPack

There's also the statements about her diving into Imaginary Time to take an infinite amount of time to do something that takes an instant in the real world:

The fact that BB had reached the Moon Cell core established this "place", formerly imaginary space for storing malicious information, as real space in the present, past, and future. It was reconstructed at her hands as a "far side of the moon" where even Masters can exist. BB attaining the power of the primordial goddess succeeded in quantifying the "nothingness" before the birth of life. She transformed into a master of imaginary space where time and space are indefinite. While the Moon Cell can't be hacked however much time is spent, BB was able to take control of it by placing herself in "unlimited time".

 

[Reppuzan]

@Matt

I'm also wondering why you say that a 3-B character can outmuscle her when she already lolstomped a 3-A character in size.

 

[Schnee_One]

One word.

Hax

 

[Kaltias]

That's not what he said. He said that a 3-B MFTL+ character can. Via blitzing

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kaltias

The problem with that idea is that the authority states that the attack never happened, meaning that the attack would be nullified outright.

This line of thought is consistent with her defeat of Kingprotea, who has similar Reality Warping abilities.

 

[Schnee_One]

Ah okay, that is true though.

You know, I always was curious, what stops say, Bayonetta or Sakuya from stopping time for however long they need to and laying waste to her.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gargoyle

1) Bayonetta is from Earth.

2) BB is also superior to Violet, a number member of the Sakura Five, who can freeze time but not consciousness with her Mystic Eyes.

 

[Schnee_One]

1) She can still die before she rewrites a rule or whatever.

 

[Ryukama]

Is her authority passive or always activated? Or her hax having infinite speed?

Because a 3-B MFTL+ could easily just kill 5-B High Hypersonic, zero Regenerationn BB before she could ever know what happened or think to use any of her hax.

 

[Schnee_One]

Always active

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ryukama

Her authority is passive.

She used her hax to break through a barrier designed to warp space into an infinite distance.

 

[KamiYasha]

Higher-Dimensional Nasuverse is not legitimate. It barely goes beyond Low 2-C without having to resort to it.

Actually, since Extella came out, it was confirmed that there are an infinite amount of universes/parallel worlds, always growing and increasing its number just like tree branches.

And there is a force closing down several everytime, this force ain't even Akasha.

 

[Kaltias]

Does one needs to be older than Earth, or being older than all the life on Earth would work?

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes

 

[Kaltias]

And you were answering to "older than Earth" or "older than life"?

 

[Schnee_One]

Older then Earth

 

[Reppuzan]

Personally, I'm feeling that some of the information here might be wrong.

Maybe NotEvenHuman, Promestein, and KamiYasha could comment here?

 

[Promestein]

I haven't played Fate/Extra CCC, unfortunately, so I can't really weigh in with anything more than what you've already shared.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

What part of the information are you talking about, specifically? If it's only the stuff you said in the OP, the only thing i can tell is wrong at a glance is BB being a part of the Sakura Five, which she's not, but that's not relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

Well, the whole, "being older than Earth" should grant you immunity based on Mystery for starters.

In addition, she definitely defeated Kingprotea and sealed her away before the events of the game, but would that mean that beating her through raw 3-D AP is impossible?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Wouldn't the whole "older than earth gives immunity to her authority" mean that her victory against Novel Kars isn't valid? (~10,000,000,000,102,000 being his age)

 

[Schnee_One]

Didn't he accelerate himself physically though? I thought he was from a civilization born on Earth

 

[The_Everlasting]

@JSW

IIRC that age comes from time loops. Kars is still from Earth.

 

[Schnee_One]

Isn't the Universe 14 Billion years old? How is Kars older then the Universe itself?