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You will revise low and mid tiers aswell, besides the main two girls???
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A Wild Last Boss Appeared Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
- Start date
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- #682
Obviously.
Discussion about potential higher tiers for Ruphas and Alovenus ie 1-A+ requires it's own thread.
Discussion about potential higher tiers for Ruphas and Alovenus ie 1-A+ requires it's own thread.
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It makes sense but I don't think changes much. The current feats for low 5-B and supporting evidence still make sense to me. Just you know, there is a damage cap. But indeed level 99,999 wouldn't be planet level looks like
There's a few times someone was said capable of destroying the planet. Like Leone, and the dragon king whose attack Ruphas said was likely to destroy it as well. Could assume these would be blocked out by the level limit though, I'm which case these characters have the capability but are just restricted. Which makes sense when you remember the law which force restricts you to 9,999 even
The MFTL part was already talked about here
There's a few times someone was said capable of destroying the planet. Like Leone, and the dragon king whose attack Ruphas said was likely to destroy it as well. Could assume these would be blocked out by the level limit though, I'm which case these characters have the capability but are just restricted. Which makes sense when you remember the law which force restricts you to 9,999 even
The MFTL part was already talked about here
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Hmmm...Alovenus basically overwrite already 1A RW, law and Subjective Reality with her own rules. Then Ruphas punched that away...
She punched her problems away. Is this anything for her? I know it's smurf hax for Alovenus avatar, or would it just be resistance for Ruphas and the AP takes care of the rest. May actually be resistance though because she basically overwrites it with hax and gains complete control over the universe in this way
She punched her problems away. Is this anything for her? I know it's smurf hax for Alovenus avatar, or would it just be resistance for Ruphas and the AP takes care of the rest. May actually be resistance though because she basically overwrites it with hax and gains complete control over the universe in this way
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Update: I have finished volume 9, and started a sandbox for the eventual CRT. Will work on it over time, as things come up that need to be discussed, will mention it here.
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The afterstory certainly added more perspective/confirmation on certain things. Like the universe Earth is in having a dimension, and each universe having their own dimension. So each dimension will have the alternate universes along side it the original. It helps that folder analogy. Then the river stuff
If awlba wasn't a clear cut goal of just defeating the Goddess, feels like it could have some cool further expansion of lore
If awlba wasn't a clear cut goal of just defeating the Goddess, feels like it could have some cool further expansion of lore
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Well with logic manipulation being added soon, I guess that should be considered here in the crt. (Ability wise, I'm not even touching that tier part lol)
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- #688
Well if it passes anyway.
Going through my sandbox, logic/law manipulation is going to be a thing everyone has. Idk how it will work with the new logic page though, probably have both.
Levels are a law which allows people to be able to disregard common sense.
Once you get to 12 Heavenly Stars tier, not only can you disregard common sense, even "divine providence" can be ignored.
Then when you get to level 4200 Ruphas, and Dina (Alovenus), they ignore reason, providence, common sense, logic, theorems, and law.
Basically the higher leveled you get, the more irrational you become, Ruphas mentioned it too, that whoever can disregard reason the most is who wins the fight. But yea it all comes together when you know Alovenus is the very concept of irrationality, so the things she created, are also irrational.
Right now I am just gathering a lot of info in one place, after I go through everything, will decide where I want to go with things, but definitely going to split it up over multiple CRT's.
Going through my sandbox, logic/law manipulation is going to be a thing everyone has. Idk how it will work with the new logic page though, probably have both.
Levels are a law which allows people to be able to disregard common sense.
Once you get to 12 Heavenly Stars tier, not only can you disregard common sense, even "divine providence" can be ignored.
Then when you get to level 4200 Ruphas, and Dina (Alovenus), they ignore reason, providence, common sense, logic, theorems, and law.
Basically the higher leveled you get, the more irrational you become, Ruphas mentioned it too, that whoever can disregard reason the most is who wins the fight. But yea it all comes together when you know Alovenus is the very concept of irrationality, so the things she created, are also irrational.
Right now I am just gathering a lot of info in one place, after I go through everything, will decide where I want to go with things, but definitely going to split it up over multiple CRT's.
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I see, so a higher level would have more of a lack of common sense in what they do? I know the level limit is something meant to hold you back from being too destructive and such. What examples are there though of lower levels? Cause I forget, and I just think of stuff that would make it potentially law. But even they were held back by the level limit if 1,000. I do remember Alovenus firing an attack which couldn't be explained by laws, logic, providence, common sense and stuff like that. So I guess that goes for the levels when level 4200 ruphas matched it.
Alovenus herself is kinda just irrational and illogical given form tho which is already solid for Gods. Like making freezing water turn to fire without any reason why she can and stuff. Flexing controlling logic and reason however she likes. And within the setting/their fight,with them it's pushing any sort of logic and reason aside to force the results basically. There seems to be a good amount of evidence for it. So I think if that thread does pass, it will be very solid for them. I never thought about the first part though...it does make sense
Another thing is Alovenus's existence was paradoxical I think as a person, but it became entirely something else as a God. Would that paradoxical existence still be a thing in the God key? The existing at the beginning but also end stuff
Alovenus herself is kinda just irrational and illogical given form tho which is already solid for Gods. Like making freezing water turn to fire without any reason why she can and stuff. Flexing controlling logic and reason however she likes. And within the setting/their fight,with them it's pushing any sort of logic and reason aside to force the results basically. There seems to be a good amount of evidence for it. So I think if that thread does pass, it will be very solid for them. I never thought about the first part though...it does make sense
Another thing is Alovenus's existence was paradoxical I think as a person, but it became entirely something else as a God. Would that paradoxical existence still be a thing in the God key? The existing at the beginning but also end stuff
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Levels are meant to prevent you from being destructive, but at the same time it allows for nonsensical stuff, for example if a baby punched an Ouroboros, the baby would damage it, -1 HP, theoretically ignoring any HP regeneration, given enough time a baby could kill an Ouroboros by hitting it over and over.
Ruphas and Benet got caught in a trap set up at the Orm's castle, and despite just being electricity with like a million volts or something, they were still taking damage, -1 HP.
So basically if you applied AWLBA logic to like One Piece or something, like Level 300 Virgo vs Gear 5 Luffy, if Virgo can survive long enough, and do hit and run tactics, Virgo could kill Luffy....
Goddess Alovenus I think is still paradoxical, she exists at the beginning and end, because she did indeed exist as a mortal at one point, but that also doesn't exist anymore, so its as if she has always been God. With the way the Final Point works too, where it encompasses everything, while also being a void, its the beginning and the end, and Alovenus is like the concept of irrationality for it, if the Final exists, Alovenus exists as well, as she is the leftover stuff that wasn't included in creation.
Ruphas and Benet got caught in a trap set up at the Orm's castle, and despite just being electricity with like a million volts or something, they were still taking damage, -1 HP.
So basically if you applied AWLBA logic to like One Piece or something, like Level 300 Virgo vs Gear 5 Luffy, if Virgo can survive long enough, and do hit and run tactics, Virgo could kill Luffy....
Goddess Alovenus I think is still paradoxical, she exists at the beginning and end, because she did indeed exist as a mortal at one point, but that also doesn't exist anymore, so its as if she has always been God. With the way the Final Point works too, where it encompasses everything, while also being a void, its the beginning and the end, and Alovenus is like the concept of irrationality for it, if the Final exists, Alovenus exists as well, as she is the leftover stuff that wasn't included in creation.
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Oh yeah that is true, that one comment where if a baby kept attacking they'd do -1 hp despite the level difference. Would you say that's because inhabitants are basically forced to have a level of HP, so attacks will still register as damage regardless of the strength? Thus the higher the level gets more irrational after that? Something like this anyway..i'm imagining this stuff in crossverse battles lmao
With the paradoxical stuff considered, this also makes sense. I was wondering because she no longer exists in history anymore, also it was translated that a God is a singular and unique existence. So basically there can only be one of them across all worlds and times (which I think is rather acaus 2). But her existence really is an illogical thing meant for the end point in that way
With the paradoxical stuff considered, this also makes sense. I was wondering because she no longer exists in history anymore, also it was translated that a God is a singular and unique existence. So basically there can only be one of them across all worlds and times (which I think is rather acaus 2). But her existence really is an illogical thing meant for the end point in that way
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- #692
I don't know if there is any point to overthinking it. The universe is Alovenus magic spell, and residents of her universe have inherited a part of her power, hence why they can disregard logic.
I mean mana is directly from Alovenus, and characters level up via absorbing mana. The more mana you absorb the higher level you get, the more irrational you become, would even describe this as the closer you become to Alovenus, I mean Ruphas and co got to her level via absorbing the mana she used for the universe.
In a vs battle it would work exactly as I described, a Low 5-B character for example in verse has an HP of like 200,000, a baby would just need to hit that character 200,000 times, in other words even a baby from AWLBA could kill Luffy by hitting him 200K times, which is ridiculous.
In terms of a stronger character like Virgo how many hits would that take? Pretty unknown, less than 200K though, this ridiculous logic also explains some of the weird instances like Sei and his party facing Mercurius? Or was it some other level 300, forgot right now, but basically the highest level in his party was like 150 or something yet they could fight the higher level character as a group, which you would think would just stomp, doesn't work like that.
I mean mana is directly from Alovenus, and characters level up via absorbing mana. The more mana you absorb the higher level you get, the more irrational you become, would even describe this as the closer you become to Alovenus, I mean Ruphas and co got to her level via absorbing the mana she used for the universe.
In a vs battle it would work exactly as I described, a Low 5-B character for example in verse has an HP of like 200,000, a baby would just need to hit that character 200,000 times, in other words even a baby from AWLBA could kill Luffy by hitting him 200K times, which is ridiculous.
In terms of a stronger character like Virgo how many hits would that take? Pretty unknown, less than 200K though, this ridiculous logic also explains some of the weird instances like Sei and his party facing Mercurius? Or was it some other level 300, forgot right now, but basically the highest level in his party was like 150 or something yet they could fight the higher level character as a group, which you would think would just stomp, doesn't work like that.
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That is a really good way to put it, when it comes to the inhabitants of Alovenus universe inheriting a part of it in order to level up and such, certainly seems like a form of law/logic manip to me. It also gives a better look at HP and everything
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- #694
I think there is a pretty good possibility Aigekeros level people and above go to at least 5-A, would have to see if I can calc this, but pretty sure even like moving the Moon often times comes out to like 5-A, Aigokeros threw Mercury at an Ouroboros.
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And forget what I said above, the feat break KE rules, it's blatantly FTL, even MFTL at that.
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So instead of 5A it'd be a speed upgrade? Not versed with KE standards, but if it's also FTL/MFTL would other aigokeros level people scale to that too? That is pretty big jump from relativistic. The dude could grow so dang massive
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Found someway to make it usuable, instead of calc Mercury being thrown, calc Wood Ouroboros being thrown to the Moon.
Came out to High 5-A.
It upgrades their attack speed to MFTL, which from memory is consistent, because I remember another Ouroboros having a FTL breath attack, which one? Forgot, will come up once I get through the Ouroboros feats.
I also have to look if anyone has reacted to their breath attacks while it is motion, if so then that ups their combat speed/reactions to MFTL.
Came out to High 5-A.
It upgrades their attack speed to MFTL, which from memory is consistent, because I remember another Ouroboros having a FTL breath attack, which one? Forgot, will come up once I get through the Ouroboros feats.
I also have to look if anyone has reacted to their breath attacks while it is motion, if so then that ups their combat speed/reactions to MFTL.
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I would think the ouroboros are pretty relative in that way. I think it was also the fire Ouroboros that may have fired breath attacks at benetnash? But I would need to reread. Aside from that those gravity shots from the Earth ouroboros, I forget it some were avoided or not though.
This stuff is probably going to look really flashy if animated, though this is all the way in volume 8
This stuff is probably going to look really flashy if animated, though this is all the way in volume 8
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So I'm looking over the flying to Venus feat on Ruphas's profile. What exactly makes this a feat for level 2100? She did it in level 4200 right? Unless it's due to the level difference, and 1500 already had a feat so it was assumed 2100.
And what made the equivalent of Venus the pick for the planet? Is it because it's the closest one so it's assumed that?
About Alovenus's age too, she's tens of billions of years. But that's more so an approximation for when she felt pain of some kind, probably as a mortal in Earth years right? When in actuality time doesn't matter as she is now, ontop of the fact she doesn't age. Would beyond the concept of time work in the age section for her?
Or something along those lines.
And what made the equivalent of Venus the pick for the planet? Is it because it's the closest one so it's assumed that?
About Alovenus's age too, she's tens of billions of years. But that's more so an approximation for when she felt pain of some kind, probably as a mortal in Earth years right? When in actuality time doesn't matter as she is now, ontop of the fact she doesn't age. Would beyond the concept of time work in the age section for her?
Or something along those lines.
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Don't remember, may have been a mistake. Haven't yet gotten to that feat.
Alovenus age will be inapplicable.
Alovenus age will be inapplicable.
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Coming back to this, the flicking feat was done by level 2100 Ruphas, also based on this
This happens after the finger flick, Ruphas was sent from whichever planet she flicked Orm to, to Mars, what planet exactly that is, is unknown but if Midgard is in the position of Earth, and this planet wasn't Mars, Venus would indeed be the closest assumption, doesn't mean it's right, so yea it was just a lowball.
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I can see why Venus would be chosen then. Since it specifically mentions Mars and Mercury outside of the planet they were on. So that makes sense, but as for the level, this was after Ruphas regained her memories and such and boosted to level 4200 wasn't it? Then she went back to Midgard and fought Orm right away basically. Cause I can't see 2100 anywhere in that volume, and I remember her max damage shot up to basically 1 billion
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She did indeed go back to Midgard at level 4200, but apparently dropped levels before fighting Orm because when Orm broke his limits and went to level 1500, Ruphas stated she was only using half her strength, which is level 2100, and now will use 70%, which is what she used against Benet, which is level 3000.
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Oh I didn't think of it that way, this makes sense. Looking back at it she even compares it to the previous levels. With Alkalid or level 1500, she says she was basically at 36%. So 50% at 2100 makes sense. The way she used percentage there threw me off a little
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- #705
Atm would say I am half way through gathering all the info. After I have all that in front of me, will see where exactly I want to take it.
A revisions thread for abilities will be the first thing posted, ap will probably be last since I need the Aigokeros calc evaluated.
Right now in terms of speed, level 1000's and below, currently to me it looks a bit messy. The main issue is Thulu, who is level 1000, but attacks at mach 40,000... The Heavenly Stars could keep up, this would line up with Scorpius despite being nerfed 1/100,000 by Dina still being able to move.
But then we have Castor who has like the lowest stats among the Stars being able to keep up with Orm, and Sol. In Orm's case you can argue he was holding back, since the entire fight was just a fake out to make it seem like he was going for the Key to Heavens, Sol you can't really argue. If Sol scales to Ruphas though who is mach 100,000, then it kind of makes sense, that's just over a 2x difference.
This also leads me to thinking, we probably shouldn't be scaling everyone to Orm, who is stated to be above Benet, and who was clearly holding back against Ruphas. Then from memory we also have Benet speed blitzing the Stars, with only Ruphas being able to keep up, which would suggest a massive difference between Stars and Benet/Ruphas, but again from memory the Stars could also keep up with Leon, who is an equal to Benet/Ruphas...
So yea haven't gathered everything yet to decide what I want to do with speed.
A revisions thread for abilities will be the first thing posted, ap will probably be last since I need the Aigokeros calc evaluated.
Right now in terms of speed, level 1000's and below, currently to me it looks a bit messy. The main issue is Thulu, who is level 1000, but attacks at mach 40,000... The Heavenly Stars could keep up, this would line up with Scorpius despite being nerfed 1/100,000 by Dina still being able to move.
But then we have Castor who has like the lowest stats among the Stars being able to keep up with Orm, and Sol. In Orm's case you can argue he was holding back, since the entire fight was just a fake out to make it seem like he was going for the Key to Heavens, Sol you can't really argue. If Sol scales to Ruphas though who is mach 100,000, then it kind of makes sense, that's just over a 2x difference.
This also leads me to thinking, we probably shouldn't be scaling everyone to Orm, who is stated to be above Benet, and who was clearly holding back against Ruphas. Then from memory we also have Benet speed blitzing the Stars, with only Ruphas being able to keep up, which would suggest a massive difference between Stars and Benet/Ruphas, but again from memory the Stars could also keep up with Leon, who is an equal to Benet/Ruphas...
So yea haven't gathered everything yet to decide what I want to do with speed.
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From what we've seen Orms capability is pretty high even as a level 1000/1500. Probably because he's basically an Ouroboros? Who r scales to him right now? I don't think anyone else really does besides Ruphas in level 1000. But that was them fighting somewhat "equal" cause of him holding back
Before fighting Benetnash Ruphas also wasn't adjusted to her body as much, if that matters. But afterward I think the stars are basically level 1000 due to Rupha's increase? So them keeping up with Leon, or at least being relative seems to match up doesn't it? He is a boss class monster after all, so the earlier half I think he remained level 1,000 but I forgot.
I think the case of Orm holding back makes sense here. Castor honestly would have little chance otherwise, especially considering Orm was holding back on Ruphas before.
As for Sol wasn't he someone who Leon ended up having to fight? Being basically an Ouroboros avatar too if I remember that right. Even then though, the stars seen relative in some way due to their level as well.
So just laying it out for the speed, level 800 stars < Level 1000 Ruphas who is around Benetnash and (Leon?). Level 1000 stars around here relative to Thulu? I guess...since theyre all basically level 1,000< Orm at level 1000 base < Level 1500 Benet < Orm and ouroboros form level 1500 is relative to 2100 Ruphas < Every other level of Ruphas
Benetnash reached light speed basically at 1500 so that's when she blitzes the stars even if they're level 1,000. I think it checks out with the stars being what they are now which is like relativistic+. I guess some stuff isn't factored like speed buffs, or the stat doping. Idk where sol comes in, but if he's basically giving Leon a challenge till he started using actual fighting techniques and skills, then he's around the ruphas/Benet level too at 1,000. Leon even says he's basically held back by the level limit law and should be up there with them.
Remembering back the stars also fought another Ouroboros avatar, though that one was more mysterious and they had to work together unlike Leon. So I think him being relative to Ruphas isn't too much of a stress, not factoring stuff like the buffs she has.
Before fighting Benetnash Ruphas also wasn't adjusted to her body as much, if that matters. But afterward I think the stars are basically level 1000 due to Rupha's increase? So them keeping up with Leon, or at least being relative seems to match up doesn't it? He is a boss class monster after all, so the earlier half I think he remained level 1,000 but I forgot.
I think the case of Orm holding back makes sense here. Castor honestly would have little chance otherwise, especially considering Orm was holding back on Ruphas before.
As for Sol wasn't he someone who Leon ended up having to fight? Being basically an Ouroboros avatar too if I remember that right. Even then though, the stars seen relative in some way due to their level as well.
So just laying it out for the speed, level 800 stars < Level 1000 Ruphas who is around Benetnash and (Leon?). Level 1000 stars around here relative to Thulu? I guess...since theyre all basically level 1,000< Orm at level 1000 base < Level 1500 Benet < Orm and ouroboros form level 1500 is relative to 2100 Ruphas < Every other level of Ruphas
Benetnash reached light speed basically at 1500 so that's when she blitzes the stars even if they're level 1,000. I think it checks out with the stars being what they are now which is like relativistic+. I guess some stuff isn't factored like speed buffs, or the stat doping. Idk where sol comes in, but if he's basically giving Leon a challenge till he started using actual fighting techniques and skills, then he's around the ruphas/Benet level too at 1,000. Leon even says he's basically held back by the level limit law and should be up there with them.
Remembering back the stars also fought another Ouroboros avatar, though that one was more mysterious and they had to work together unlike Leon. So I think him being relative to Ruphas isn't too much of a stress, not factoring stuff like the buffs she has.
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- #707
Everyone currently scales to Orm, the highest feat excluding him is Benet moving at mach 400,000, which is Relativistic, not Relativistic+ as the profiles show.
Haven't yet gotten to the Leon portion of things, but memory is they basically got stomped while restricted to level 800, but at some point got to level 1000 during the fight.
The Stars definitely didn't face Thulu at level 1000 until the very end of the fight, they were a difference in stats, but they weren't being stomped. But again for a level 1000 Thulu is only mach 40,000.... Maybe it's just slow, it's stated to be stronger than Leon, so probably makes up for it with ap and regen.
The Benet blizing I am talking about is the first encounter between Benet, Ruphas and the Stars, from memory she basically blitzes them, only Ruphas could keep up, this is all level 1000 Ruphas and Benet.
But anyway haven't gathered all the feats in 1 place, so idk what I am doing yet.
Haven't yet gotten to the Leon portion of things, but memory is they basically got stomped while restricted to level 800, but at some point got to level 1000 during the fight.
The Stars definitely didn't face Thulu at level 1000 until the very end of the fight, they were a difference in stats, but they weren't being stomped. But again for a level 1000 Thulu is only mach 40,000.... Maybe it's just slow, it's stated to be stronger than Leon, so probably makes up for it with ap and regen.
The Benet blizing I am talking about is the first encounter between Benet, Ruphas and the Stars, from memory she basically blitzes them, only Ruphas could keep up, this is all level 1000 Ruphas and Benet.
But anyway haven't gathered all the feats in 1 place, so idk what I am doing yet.
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Cthulu may just be slower? Plus they were also underwater which hindered both it and them I think. But in that fight certainly the problem was underwater mobility, and then its regen. Towards the end they became level 1000 and it got better. Cthulu already is kindve an oddity given its unique...powers and being a bug
To me it it looks like they all basically scaled to Ruphas or libra. Gets a little confusing for like benet/orm/Ruphas. Benet moves at half the speed of light of exactly relativistic+ it shows. Orm looks to already be faster than that at over Mach 500k, Ruphas seems to go off benet too. So maybe Orm can just be changed to "superior" rather than comparable? I think Libra gets compared to Orm too, but that was from a Ruphas who saw his strength while holding back to be fair. Still, she is the faster of the Stars it seems
To me it it looks like they all basically scaled to Ruphas or libra. Gets a little confusing for like benet/orm/Ruphas. Benet moves at half the speed of light of exactly relativistic+ it shows. Orm looks to already be faster than that at over Mach 500k, Ruphas seems to go off benet too. So maybe Orm can just be changed to "superior" rather than comparable? I think Libra gets compared to Orm too, but that was from a Ruphas who saw his strength while holding back to be fair. Still, she is the faster of the Stars it seems
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You would think a monster which lived it's whole life in water, would be fast/fastest in water... The Stars I can see being slower, but Thulu is weird to argue.
You're right, our speed ratings start Relativistic+ at like Mach 437000, Benet is said to be over mach 400,000 which does mean that since she is half light speed.
Libra did multiple times react to Leon from what i already have gathered, she is level 910 after all, she had the issue of sinking in water so reliant on her underwater tech, she stated she had a 30% chance of dodging Thulu's Mach 40,000 attack.
But anyway so far seems like we can consider Thulu an odd inconsistency that can be ignored/explained away.
Will have to re-look at the Benet scene.
You're right, our speed ratings start Relativistic+ at like Mach 437000, Benet is said to be over mach 400,000 which does mean that since she is half light speed.
Libra did multiple times react to Leon from what i already have gathered, she is level 910 after all, she had the issue of sinking in water so reliant on her underwater tech, she stated she had a 30% chance of dodging Thulu's Mach 40,000 attack.
But anyway so far seems like we can consider Thulu an odd inconsistency that can be ignored/explained away.
Will have to re-look at the Benet scene.
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Thulu definitely seems like a minor odd inconsistency. Then again I guess that's why he even exists, just there to be seriously odd lol
With how it is now I think feats and speed may come out to be a little more consistent. Aside from that Benet 1500 situation before
With how it is now I think feats and speed may come out to be a little more consistent. Aside from that Benet 1500 situation before
