A Song of Ice and Fire CRT

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I propose an LS upgrade for two characters:

1) Robert Baraheon

As mentioned in his profile, Bobby can lift a big warhammer that Eddard Stark and others men cannot lift:

He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift.

- A Game of Thrones, Eddard I

This was confirmed by George R.R. Martin:

"Yes, it is a big hammer. A very big hammer. Going to be heavy as well. I insisted on that. After all, it says right in the book that Robert's warhammer was so huge and heavy that only someone with his own freakish strength could wield it. So I kept telling them, "bigger, bigger."

"His chosen weapon was a war hammer of such immense size his friend Ned Stark could not wield it."

Robert can not only lift this warhammer, but fight with it, and with one hand, as this passage implies:

"The king means to fight in the melee today," [...] Outside the entrance, Robert's warhammer was displayed beside an immense iron shield blazoned with the crowned stag of House Baratheon:

- A Game of Thrones, Eddard VII

Robert fights with a shield, so one hand for the shield and one hand for the warhammer.
I think Robert should have an Class 1 LS ( or Superhuman), because he can easily lift and move with one hand an object that athletes cannot lift.


2) Victarion Greyjoy

Victarion said he's as strong as Cragorn, who can twist a man's head off his shoulders with his bare hands. So, Victarion should be Class 5 according to this statement.


Limited Fear manipulation for the Ice wights:

He turned the corpse over with his foot, and the dead white face stared up at the over cast sky with blue, blue eyes [...] His horse was nervous, rolling her eyes, backing away from the dead men as far as her lead would allow. Jon led her off a few paces, fighting to keep her from bolting. The horses did not like the feel of his place. For that matter, neither did Jon. The dogs liked it least of all. Ghost had led the party here; the pack of hounds had been useless. When Bass the kennelmaster had tried to get them to take the scent from the severed hand, they had gone wild, yowling and barking, fighting to get away. Even now they were snarling and whimpering by turns, pulling at their leashes while Chett cursed them for curs [...]

"They...they aren't rotting." Sam pointed, his fat finger shaking only a little. "Look, there's... there's no maggots or...or... worms or anything...they've been lying here in the woods, but they... they haven't been chewed or eaten by animals... only Ghost... otherwise they're...they're..."

"Untouched," Jon said softly. "And Ghost is different. The dogs and the horses won't go near them."

- A Game of Thrones, Jon VII

The mere presence of wights scares all living beings (except humans and direwolves) and preventing them from rotting, thus affecting even bacteria and fungi.


The last one (I don't know at all if it will be accepted but I try anyway)

Possibly Soul or Life-Sealing for the Valyrians:

Qohorik swords, knives, and armor are superior to even the best castle-forged steel of Westeros, and the city's smiths have perfected the art of infusing deep color into the metals of their work, producing armor and weaponry of lasting beauty. Only here, in all the world, has the art of reworking Valyrian steel been preserved, its secrets jealously guarded [...] Maester Pol's treatise on Qohorik metalworking, written during several years of residence in the Free City, reveals just how jealously the secrets are guarded: He was thrice publicly whipped and cast out from the city for making too many inquiries. The final time, his hand was also removed following the allegation that he stole a Valyrian steel blade. According to Pol, the true reason for his final exile was his discovery of blood sacrifices--including the killing of slaves as young as infants--which the Qohorik smiths used in their efforts to produce a steel to equal that of the Freehold.

- The World of Ice and Fire: Beyond the Sunset Kingdom, The Free Cities, Qohor

According to Maester Pol, human sacrifice is necessary to reforge Valyrian steel.
George R.R. Martin is a huge fan of Michael Moorcock's books on Elric of Melniboné, and Elric and the Melnibonians are likely George's first inspiration for the Valyrians, as they are very similar (and there are other references to the Elric of Melniboné saga in the books)

Elric of Melniboné has a black sword (Valyrian steel is also black) called "Stormbringer", a sword that drinks the souls of its victims
George R.R. Martin is also known to be a huge fan of Tolkien's Legendarium, and in this lore there was also a black sword named Gurthang (a sword of Túrin) which drank the blood of its victims

Ironborn chronicles and legends also mention weapons strangely similar to Valyrian steel, steel that drinks the souls of those they slew:

And when battle was joined upon the shores, mighty kings and famous warriors fell before the reavers like wheat before a scythe, in such numbers that the men of the green lands told each other that the ironborn were demons risen from some watery hell, protected by fell sorceries and possessed of foul black weapons that drank the very souls of those they slew.

- The World of Ice and Fire: The Seven Kingdoms, The Iron Islands
DISCLAIMER: This description of ironborn is probably not literal, but the idea is still here (and this is also another Stormbringer reference, most likely), I just use this passage to prove that George R.R. Martin does know this ability, to support the previous arguments.

So I think there's a possibility that the Valyrians used the soul or life of the sacrificed to forge Valyrian steel, sealing it into the steel.

EDIT:

Magic for Daenerys Targaryen

According to George R.R. Martin:
"The whole point of the scene in A Game of Thrones where Daenerys hatches the dragons is that she makes the magic up as she goes along; she is someone who really might do anything. I wanted magic to be something barely under control and half instinctive--not the John W. Campbell version with magic as the science and technology of other sorts of world, that works by simple and understandable rules."

 

[Random-Helper323]

I propose an LS upgrade for two characters:

1) Robert Baraheon

As mentioned in his profile, Bobby can lift a big warhammer that Eddard Stark and others men cannot lift:


- A Game of Thrones, Eddard I

This was confirmed by George R.R. Martin:

"Yes, it is a big hammer. A very big hammer. Going to be heavy as well. I insisted on that. After all, it says right in the book that Robert's warhammer was so huge and heavy that only someone with his own freakish strength could wield it. So I kept telling them, "bigger, bigger."

"His chosen weapon was a war hammer of such immense size his friend Ned Stark could not wield it."

Robert can not only lift this warhammer, but fight with it, and with one hand, as this passage implies:


- A Game of Thrones, Eddard VII

Robert fights with a shield, so one hand for the shield and one hand for the warhammer.
I think Robert should have an Class 1 LS ( or Superhuman), because he can easily lift and move with one hand an object that athletes cannot lift.


2) Victarion Greyjoy

Victarion said he's as strong as Cragorn, who can twist a man's head off his shoulders with his bare hands. So, Victarion should be Class 5 according to this statement.

This seems okay.

Limited Fear manipulation for the Ice wights:

- A Game of Thrones, Jon VII

The mere presence of wights scares all living beings (except humans and direwolves) and preventing them from rotting, thus affecting even bacteria and fungi.

The dogs and horses being terrified isn't necessarily fear manipulation, though. It just means they're scared of its scent. Was that statement about the parts not rotting referring to a Wight, or to something else that was dead?

The last one (I don't know at all if it will be accepted but I try anyway)

Possibly Soul or Life-Sealing for the Valyrians:


- The World of Ice and Fire: Beyond the Sunset Kingdom, The Free Cities, Qohor

According to Maester Pol, human sacrifice is necessary to reforge Valyrian steel.
George R.R. Martin is a huge fan of Michael Moorcock's books on Elric of Melniboné, and Elric and the Melnibonians are likely George's first inspiration for the Valyrians, as they are very similar (and there are other references to the Elric of Melniboné saga in the books)

Elric of Melniboné has a black sword (Valyrian steel is also black) called "Stormbringer", a sword that drinks the souls of its victims
George R.R. Martin is also known to be a huge fan of Tolkien's Legendarium, and in this lore there was also a black sword named Gurthang (a sword of Túrin) which drank the blood of its victims

Ironborn chronicles and legends also mention weapons strangely similar to Valyrian steel, steel that drinks the souls of those they slew:


- The World of Ice and Fire: The Seven Kingdoms, The Iron Islands
This description of ironborn may not be literal, but the idea is still here, GRRM has clearly thought of this ability.

So I think there's a possibility that the Valyrians used the soul or life of the sacrificed to forge Valyrian steel, sealing it into the steel.

It's possible. The only concrete statement about life draining comes from the Ironborn who are really superstitious and who might not know if they drained souls or not anyway.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The dogs and horses being terrified isn't necessarily fear manipulation, though. It just means they're scared of its scent.

Yes, but since even scavengers don't want to go near the body, I thought it would be more than just a smell they don't like.

Was that statement about the parts not rotting referring to a Wight, or to something else that was dead?

A Wight, blue eyes are mentioned. These are the same wights that will attack the night's watch later in the chapter.

The only concrete statement about life draining comes from the Ironborn who are really superstitious and who might not know if they drained souls or not anyway.

Yes this statement is probably not literal (this is also a clear reference to Stormbringer), I just used it to prove that George R.R. Martin does know this ability, to support the previous arguments

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yes, but since even scavengers don't want to go near the body, I thought it would be more than just a smell they don't like.


A Wight, blue eyes are mentioned. These are the same wights that will attack the night's watch later in the chapter.

If it was the body of a Wight, then that just proves the bodies don't rot, and in this case that the bacteria and bugs don't eat them. That proves they're not biodegradable, not that they have fear manipulation.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

and in this case that the bacteria and bugs don't eat them. That proves they're not biodegradable

They are not biodegradable because all living beings are afraid of them, even microorganisms. How can bacteria, insects and fungi be afraid to decompose a corpse?

 

[Random-Helper323]

They are not biodegradable because all living beings are afraid of them, even microorganisms. How can bacteria, insects and fungi be afraid to decompose a corpse?

Is it stated that the decomposers are afraid to eat them, or anything to that effect? Otherwise, them not eating the Wight's corpse only proves they don't treat it as edible. They don't eat certain plastic either, that's why non-biodegradable plastics don't decompose even in thousands of years.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Is it stated that the decomposers are afraid to eat them,

Yes:

He turned the corpse over with his foot, and the dead white face stared up at the over cast sky with blue, blue eyes [...] His horse was nervous, rolling her eyes, backing away from the dead men as far as her lead would allow. Jon led her off a few paces, fighting to keep her from bolting. The horses did not like the feel of his place. For that matter, neither did Jon. The dogs liked it least of all. Ghost had led the party here; the pack of hounds had been useless. When Bass the kennelmaster had tried to get them to take the scent from the severed hand, they had gone wild, yowling and barking, fighting to get away. Even now they were snarling and whimpering by turns, pulling at their leashes while Chett cursed them for curs [...]

"They...they aren't rotting." Sam pointed, his fat finger shaking only a little. "Look, there's... there's no maggots or...or... worms or anything...they've been lying here in the woods, but they... they haven't been chewed or eaten by animals... only Ghost... otherwise they're...they're..."

"Untouched," Jon said softly. "And Ghost is different. The dogs and the horses won't go near them."

This passage implies that no living being (except the humans and the direwolves) wants to approach the ice wights because they are afraid of them, including scavengers and decomposers.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yes:



This passage implies that no living being (except the humans and the direwolves) wants to approach the ice wights because they are afraid of them, including scavengers and decomposers.

The "decomposers" refers to the bugs and bacteria. If this is the only statement describing fear, then it is not stated that the decomposers are fearful. So what we have is a statement describing fear from dogs and horses, both of which get scared when they know something is dangerous, and a statement that the Wights don't rot, and that worms and things don't find them palatable. By these criteria any monster that terrifies animals and doesn't decompose, which includes the Terminator, would have fear manipulation.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The "decomposers" refers to the bugs and bacteria. If this is the only statement describing fear, then it is not stated that the decomposers are fearful. So what we have is a statement describing fear from dogs and horses, both of which get scared when they know something is dangerous, and a statement that the Wights don't rot, and that worms and things don't find them palatable. By these criteria any monster that terrifies animals and doesn't decompose, which includes the Terminator, would have fear manipulation.

I've found passages in the books that say wights actually rot, so I think Jafer Flowers and Othor's wights (the ones Jon and Sam talk about in the passage I transcribed) stopped their decompositions to able to infiltrate the Night's Watch.
It is known that wights can remain in a state of stasis to attack by surprise (Jafer Flowers and Othor did it in AGOT and other unknown wights did it in ADWD) so that they can also control their decomposition is not far-fetched and impossible.

So I think it's Biological manipulation, or something like that

 

[PrinceofPein]

Being scared of something is not fear manipulation. Fear manipulation is something that should have supernatural causes and not a natural one, else anything that can scare me like humans again fear manip.

The rest looks okay

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The rest looks okay

And for this:

I've found passages in the books that say wights actually rot, so I think Jafer Flowers and Othor's wights (the ones Jon and Sam talk about in the passage I transcribed) stopped their decompositions to able to infiltrate the Night's Watch.
It is known that wights can remain in a state of stasis to attack by surprise (Jafer Flowers and Othor did it in AGOT and other unknown wights did it in ADWD) so that they can also control their decomposition is not far-fetched and impossible.

So I think it's Biological manipulation (instead of fear manipulation), or something like that

?

 

[PrinceofPein]

And for this:


?

I don't think there is enough to support biological manipulation

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Being scared of something is not fear manipulation. Fear manipulation is something that should have supernatural causes and not a natural one, else anything that can scare me like humans again fear manip.

And yes, I already knew that, I just thought it could count as fear manipulation because I thought even microorganisms were afraid of them, which seems supernatural

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I don't think there is enough to support biological manipulation

So what is the ability to stop its own decomposition?

 

[PrinceofPein]

So what is the ability to stop its own decomposition?

I mean there is not enough to say it is stopping its own decomposition

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I mean there is not enough to say it is stopping its own decomposition

So how do you explain the fact that the decomposition was not affecting them in this situation?

 

[PrinceofPein]

So how do you explain the fact that the decomposition was not affecting them in this situation?

Plot?
Since it absolutely does not mean they can stop their own decomposition

 

[Random-Helper323]

I've found passages in the books that say wights actually rot, so I think Jafer Flowers and Othor's wights (the ones Jon and Sam talk about in the passage I transcribed) stopped their decompositions to able to infiltrate the Night's Watch.
It is known that wights can remain in a state of stasis to attack by surprise (Jafer Flowers and Othor did it in AGOT and other unknown wights did it in ADWD) so that they can also control their decomposition is not far-fetched and impossible.

So I think it's Biological manipulation, or something like that

It sounds like something that could be achieved by simply having a very slow decomposition rate, which could very easily be the result of the transformation. The Others also use ice based power, and freezing something or even lowering its temperature also slows decomposition. It doesn't sound like we can really say micro-organisms are scared, and even if they were that still might not be fear manipulation.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Plot?
Since it absolutely does not mean they can stop their own decomposition

It sounds like something that could be achieved by simply having a very slow decomposition rate, which could very easily be the result of the transformation. The Others also use ice based power, and freezing something or even lowering its temperature also slows decomposition. It doesn't sound like we can really say micro-organisms are scared, and even if they were that still might not be fear manipulation.

Okay so I edited the post and removed the revision for the Wights, added a minor disclaimer on the Valyrians and Valyrian Steel possible addition, and added another addition about Danerys that I completely forgot.

 

[Random-Helper323]

That stuff about Daenerys sounds kind of weird. It is magic, but it also might go along with her randomly good luck throughout the series, if she randomly causes magic events to happen just by wanting them a lot. Blessed by the "Lord of Light", maybe.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Blessed by the "Lord of Light", maybe.

R'hllor probably doesn't exist.
The hatching of the dragon eggs is described by GRRM as a miracle, a unique and magical event:

Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?
Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire.

Granny : Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they « bond » to their dragons?
GRRM : Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany’s dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn’t immune to that molten gold.
Revanshe : So she won’t be able to do it again?
GRRM : Probably not.

Daenerys has only used magic, instinctively, during this event (for the moment).

The red comet had probably helped too. I think Dany's magic hatched the eggs and the red comet protected Dany from the flames.

 

[Random-Helper323]

R'hllor probably doesn't exist.
The hatching of the dragon eggs is described by GRRM as a miracle, a unique and magical event:

Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?
Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire.

Granny : Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they « bond » to their dragons?
GRRM : Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany’s dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn’t immune to that molten gold.
Revanshe : So she won’t be able to do it again?
GRRM : Probably not.

Daenerys has only used magic, instinctively, during this event (for the moment).

The red comet had probably helped too. I think Dany's magic hatched the eggs and the red comet protected Dany from the flames.

Apparently the writers of the TV show weren't listening when he said all that.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

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[Random-Helper323]

Aside from the fear and biological manipulation, the rest seems fine. The lifting strength stuff seems fine, and random sporadic magic for Daenerys. The soul stuff seems a bit vague though.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

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