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A response to some high-end arguments... and an extra message.

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Somelatinguy

Somelatinguy

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Attempting to prove something on my last thread led to making low-end arguments before refuting high-end ones, and to amend that mistake, I'm responding to the following high-end objections:

1. Nightmare after an exhausting battle with kirby blew up a chunk out of the moon and kirby didn't give a crap

a. That instance is absurd for a few reasons…

- What exactly destroys that chunk? The Star Rod's projectiles never hit it.

- Not only doesn't Nightmare's explosion touch it, he doesn't even explode but disintegrates.

- The chunk's explosion isn't one of a surface leaving a crater, it occurs from underground.

- What's that (at least) continent level explosion supposed to scale to? Nightmare's power? He needed to corrupt the Fountain of Dreams to torment a country, so his dream manipulation magic must be island level at most and his offensive one must be even weaker.

b. So, the instance must be that way just because everything is cooler with explosions.

2. Magolor made a road made from stars and all his attacks were fueled with the master crown which had the power to create said road

- The thread was about magic power Ôëá physical power and that opposing argument assumes the conclusion supposed to be supported with it.

- Note: Stars and nebulae being in the background doesn't mean they're part of what he created.

3. kirby punches a planet in half

"Megaton Punch"… The thread's OP reads: "Outliers? In order to know that, we need at least 13 proofs; and no, they can be from mini-games only if there are already at least 13 proofs from main modes."

4. kirby punches another planet in half

"Crackity Hack"… Same as point 3.

5. kirby sends a meteor flying with a swing of a bat. said mteor flies 9999 lightyears and blows up 20 planets over the course of about 20 seconds.

"Star Slam Heroes"… Same as points 3 and 4.

6. Dark matter engulfs a planet, later gets clapped by kirby

Which of the two? Anyway, he actually defeats the villains commanding them and needs the Love-Love Stick against one and the Crystal against the other one.

7. magolor makes black holes which are calced to be large planet level. kirby and co. can tank it. kirby and co. can damage eachother.

- Those "black holes" don't attract light spanning their entire surroundings or appearing redder or dimmer, don't cause time dilation, only last seconds, and disappear without shrinking or exploding, not to mention that they drag the heroes toward below them to attract them instead of directly attracting them.

- Given this, they don't destroy the floor nor can they spaghettify the heroes because they're not true ones, and for starters, pseudo-ones can't be destroyed either.

8. Void termina is clearly stated to be a destroyer of worlds so... at least planet level

- Destruction/controlling statements can be interpreted as A can destroy/control B little by little.

- For example, Piccolo Daimaō states he could destroy the entire world, yet he's only city level.

9. Magolor is stated to be a universal threat

Same as point 8.

10. star dream flips over dozens of stars casually

- Same as point 2.

- Note: By Occam's razor, that must be just a visual illusion.

11. An exhausted void termina explodes, wiping out multiple solar systems

a. That explosion just covers stars like your classmate's head covers the blackboard/whiteboard.

b. Its size and distance from the camera are also absurd as the debris can't get that near the latter that soon at that low speed.

- So, It must be that large because everything is cooler with explosions.

12. Dawcia turns the galaxy into paint overtime

- Same as points 2 and 10.

- Note: Canvas Curse takes place in the World of Paintings, which is made of paint by nature.

13. star dream states that the fight with galacta knight would wipe out at least a couple of planets. note: star dream is a super computer who knows this kind of information like we know the back of our hands

Same as points 8 and 9.

14. some of the weakest characters can leave a crack on a planet.

"Megaton Punch" again… Same as points 3, 4, and 5.

15. Kirby lives through getting shot point blank by the halberd. Halberd can damage star dream who interscales with other characters.

The Halberd can damage the Star Dream-Nova fusion in that battle because it has the Robobot Armor's proportionate power in that moment, unlike earlier when the same comet damages the battleship's right wing with one beam.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Since I registered on this site, I've made another mistake: I've only pointed out Kirby's and Co.'s limits rather than also point out other characters'.

Not only did that led others to the wrong idea that I hate him, but also I never revealed my idea that the other Nintendo characters are only tier 9 too.

This has been that way in part because Kirby is the only franchise I've deeply researched after I watched a certain video a few years ago.

Now, I'm more aware of the panorama and I say the arguments for the other Nintendo characters must be similar to those exposed in this thread.

I grew up with these characters, so I actually love them too.
 
Yep, onto this again:

Mario canonically suffers from a hand pain because of breaking blocks with his fist for the rest of every day he does so, and Luigi canonically suffers from a headache because of breaking them with his head for the rest of every day he does so... https://www.cbc.ca/comedy/e3-news-n...uigi-was-hitting-them-with-his-head-1.4160386

This alone is more legit than all those arguments with the magic power = physical power misconception, realistic interpretations of unrealistic aspects, complicated calcs, literal interpretations of hyperboles, mistranslations, etc.

- - - - -

"4 outliers"... What does that mean?
 
The last paragraph and Mario/Luigi doing it despite the pain is kinda the joke. Luigi balling up after hiting a block obviously never happen.

Having a chainmail is something any knight has tho. Also some Links can survive stuff without any kind of armor to begin with. It would be like downgrading every sword user to tier 9 because "It's the tier of a sword".
 
1) We obviously never see Mario with a hand pain or Luigi with a headache happening after they break blocks, but Kimishama confirmed that actually happens in what wasn't proven to be a joke.

2) And why do knights have to wear chainmail if not because they need it? OoT, TP, and SS Link need it, so all the others must've needed it too all along, just like all of them also need tier 9 swords.

3) Now, may I receive objections to the response to the high-end arguments for Kirby, please?
 
Oh hey, FANDOM isn't like YouTube where it doesn't notify messages from each other and removes replies for no reason whatsoever. This will be more convenient!

First off, I'd like to say that outweighing de-feats with feats isn't an optimal way to determine a character's strength, as what counts as a single feat varies between opinions. For example, Kirby created a Warp Star himself twice if we are counting per game, twelve times if we are counting per unavoidable occurence/canon story event, and infinite amount of times if we are counting per amount of possible occurences. Instead of trying to outweigh de-feats with feats, we should instead see how the character is portrayed or use different methods. The out weighing de-feats with feats method is also horribly nonoptimal if a series doesn't have a lot of entries unlike Kirby, and can also make get in the way with the way a character is portrayed. Since Kirby is consistently being portrayed as immensely strong, with the series going out of their way to say Kirby has infinite power, and with the feats that make Kirby a lot strong enough to destroy a planet, it's safe to assume that he's higher than tier 9. Now on to the points.

1. "Nightmare after an exhausting battle with kirby blew up a chunk out of the moon and kirby didn't give a crap"

a. We don't know which one of them blew up the part of the moon, or how, but it certainly was one of them, and they scale to each other, so the precise details of the event don't matter.

b. Explosions make stuff cool, but it still happened in the story, and not as a gag. I don't remember the moon ever not having that hole in it after Kirby's Adventure (aside from the remake of the game of course.) The explosion made the event cool, but it still was an explosion that happened, and is a feat.

2. "Magolor made a road made from stars and all his attacks were fueled with the master crown which had the power to create said road"

- Physical power doesn't equal physical strength, but if a character powers up their physical strength with techniques such as Magic or Reality Warping, then it counts as physical strength. Magolor is also able to harm all playable characters in Kirby's Return to Dreamland with physical strength by bumping into them or using an attack where he charges forward mixing up his attack with portals.

- We don't know that for sure. On Magolor's profile, it's said they are "pocket realms", meaning he did infact create all those stars if he created them as realms. Also, in the playable Another Dimension stage in Kirby's Return to Dreamland, we see Kirby and Landia flying past multiple solar systems, but when doing that after Magolor supposedly destroyed the universe, they were all gone and replaced with a void. This is yet another multi-solar system level feat. Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, Bandana Dee, Meta Knight, and King Dedede all scale to Magolor with the Master Crow due to being able to defeat them, so it's yet another feat.

3. "kirby punches a planet in half"

Remember, just because they are spin-offs/sub games, doesn't mean it's not canon unless proven otherwise. On Miiverse, there was a Kirby Planet Robobot Q & A, and it mentioned that modes such as Meta Knightmare Returns and The True Arena are "what if scenarios". This means that despite being non-canon, they are the exact same versions of the characters from the main games and the canon versions of them are perfectly capable of doing the exact same things. Hence the term, "what if" if the canon versions of the characters were in this predicament, this is how they would go about it. As a result, canon Meta Knight is perfectly capable of soloing Dark Matter Clone, Queen Sectonia Clone, and Galacta Knight back to back without getting tired.

4. "kirby punches another planet in half"

Same as point 3.

5. "kirby sends a meteor flying with a swing of a bat. said mteor flies 9999 lightyears and blows up 20 planets over the course of about 20 seconds."

Same as point 3 and 4.

6. "Dark matter engulfs a planet, later gets clapped by kirby"

The Love-Love Stick is still his equipment. The Love-Love Stick was created from the positive energy he gave people when doing favours for them, and he didn't appear to lose it at the end of Kirby's Dreamland 3, so it's safe to assume he still has it. This still doesn't explain if Kirby can defeat 0 without the Love-Love Stick, and 0┬▓, but I have an answer for that. Kirby using final weapons is pretty inconsistent. Kirby can't defeat Crowned Magolor without using Super Abilities, then he is able to defeat Magolor's Soul right after that without Super Abilities, which is even stronger than the previous form. Kirby is also able to defeat King Dedede corrupted by Dark Matter in his base form, yet needs either the Rainbow Sword or the Love-Love Stick to be able to defeat Dark Matter alone.

7. "magolor makes black holes which are calced to be large planet level. kirby and co. can tank it. kirby and co. can damage eachother."

Magolor's Soul's black holes function more realistically in a what if scenario of Kirby's Return to Dreamland. How else would one calculate the power of a black hole then? They may not be conventional black holes, but ones that work similarly. I mean, look at Black Hole from BFDI. He is a confirmed pseudo-black hole yet is solar system level, and has never been shown to have any weaknesses accept for the strongest character in the series.

8. "Void termina is clearly stated to be a destroyer of worlds so... at least planet level"

Yeah, but Void Termina also has a galaxy feat for creating a supernova when dying, and he's only multi-solar system level despite being said to be a world destroyer. Galaxy level is closer to the next meaning of world, universe. Void Termina is actually weaker than he should be. The eighth proof is either the supernova feat or the world destroying feat.

9. "Magolor is stated to be a universal threat"

Magolor and Another Dimension is actually being researched, and might be even low multiverse level. Kirby and friends scale to that! And uh... Eficiente closed the thread because of you. Don't worry, I luckily wasn't there when it was open, and only read what Eficiente had to say then spoke about the topic on his message wall like he said.

10. "star dream flips over dozens of stars casually"

I mean, just because it isn't their physical strength, it doesn't mean they don't have that power. Star Dream's attack potency is multi-solar system level while it's striking strength should at least be planet level for literally being planet size. Star Dream can also physically harm Kirby fused with the Halberd, which have their own multi-solar system level feats, meaning Star Dream's physical strength is also multi-solar system level due to powerscaling, which means that Kirby taking hits from stuff like it's legs are also multi-solar system level feats. Kirby can still take hits from Star Dream's hologram like attacks, lasers, and such, and since Star Dream's attack potency is multi-solar system level, Kirby is still taking hits from that amount of strength.

11. "An exhausted void termina explodes, wiping out multiple solar systems"

a. Umm... things visible in televisions are smaller than they appear. This supernova is clearly something that at last wipes out a solar system, visibly I mean. The fight against The Three Mage-Sisters already makes the game lag, do you want the game to become a slideshow? This is a supernova we are talking about, if anything, Void Termina is downplayed already on his profile. I mean, the black hole that would supposedly suck up the universe in Super Mario Galaxy was at a comparable size to Peach's Castle and the Comet Observatory, which aren't even as big as a tow. Kirby is eight inches tall, so of course you should know that power comes in all sizes.

b. The supernova likely doesn't work the same way real supernovas work because this is fiction, and it is less accurately portrayed simply because the developers didn't know how to do it properly, or they just wanted simplicity. The debris coming to Kirby sooner doesn't matter, as this is a supernova either way.

- Explosions make stuff cool, but it still happened in the story, and not as a gag. This explosion was during a serious event in which Kirby supposedly saved the world, and triumphantly escaped from the aftermath. The explosion made the event cool, but it still was an explosion that happened, and is a feat.

12. "Dawcia turns the galaxy into paint overtime"

- Same as points 2 and 10.

- A lot of the galaxy was turned into a painting. It says on the Kirby Wiki that Dream Land was turned into a painting. It was later revealed to be affecting a lot of the galaxy as well.

13. "star dream states that the fight with galacta knight would wipe out at least a couple of planets. note: star dream is a super computer who knows this kind of information like we know the back of our hands"

Galacta Knight scales to Meta Knight who scales to Magolor and Void Termina. Since the Kirby series constantly deals with characters that are going to destroy the galaxy or universe or whatever, this statement is believable.

14. "some of the weakest characters can leave a crack on a planet."

Same as points 3, 4, and 5. I'd also like to add Schwarzs, who appears in Kirby Mass Attack's story mode.

15. "Kirby lives through getting shot point blank by the halberd. Halberd can damage star dream who interscales with other characters."

And since the Robobot Armor runs on the energy of the pilot, Kirby is planetary due to being comparable to Star Dream, and cause he directly destroyed it . It's either you just said Kirby is planet level yourself as the final proof, or the Halberd helped with defeating Star Dream, meaning Kirby surivived the Halberd's planet level attack.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You know, you're not wrong about characters like Kirby being tier 9. The problem, is that they aren't portrayed as tier 9, and consistently have feats that are higher than tier 9. Kirby has lots of feats that are 4-A. If one prioritizes de-feats over feats, then the characters are tier 9, but if one prioritizes feats over de-feats, especially when the characters are portrayed as stronger than their de-feats, which is the proper way to find out a character's strength, then they are way higher than tier 9. Here's some examples of silly quotes if we take a character's de-feats and game design only weaknesses into consideration:

  • Mario, the superhuman that scales to characters that can create constellations, is below average human level due to not being able to break ground blocks, which are usually made of dirt or rock. Mario is incapable of breaking rocks without a hammer, yet Goombas can break rocks with their heads, meaning that Goombas are stronger than Mario, despite Mario being able to casually lift and kick castles and Goombas can't.
  • Kirby, the character that scales to characters that can destroy almost an entire galaxy and is considered to have infinite power, needs help from King Dedede, a character that also scales to Kirby and near galaxy level characters and is considered one of the strongest life forms on Popstar, in order to barely break a rock wall. Kirby is of course only street level and King Dedede is only wall level because of this. You know, even though Kirby can take hits from King Dedede and be perfectly fine after that.
  • Link, who can defeat Ganondorf, a character capable of destroying the universe in most incarnations, and Link wields the Master Sword, one of the strongest swords ever, needs bombs in order to break rock walls. Of course Ganondorf has to be only street level due to this.
  • Ooh, I remember I said something similar to this before... Goku, who can fight characters capable of destroying the universe and can take hits from Majin Buu, who can destroy multiple planets in quick secession, is also comparable to Vegeta, who is below average human due to being incapable of cracking an egg open. Everyone who fought Vegenta scales to this, and everyone who fought the characters that fought Vegeta scales to this as well.
I like how devoted you are to research on series, but I don't think devoting research to only negativity comes across as liking a series. At least I know you like them. Despite Kirby actually being the tier he is, tier 4-A (even though I think he should be 4-A+ or 3-C), I must mention that there is no fun in VS debate if we are like, "This character can't destroy rocks on multiple occasions, automatc tier 9-C." even if a character doesn't even realize they are stronger, because there would be a missed opportunity to have fun with their peak strength, and have a whole tiering system based on feats that don't solely have to do with darn rock and wall destruction. Anyway, I'll be waiting for you to respond to all of the above. I assume it will take a while.
 
I'm carefully writing my response, which isn't pointless, a waste of time, or ridiculous, but it won't be ready today.
 
0) Kirby creating a Warp Star at the end of every level in Dream Land 3 is an outlier, as in none of the other instances in which they're useful if not necessary does he create any.

- They show up as often as they do because they have their own minds and senses and can travel to wherever he can find them and respond to cell phone calls.

- - - - - - - - - -

1a) The Star Rod's shots never hit the surface and Nightmare just disintegrates, so it can't be any.

- The explosion occurs from underground, and its level is higher than that of the villain's highest type of magic, his below country level dream manipulation, so it's an absurd instance.

1b) The hole can be explained by the crescent moon since the first game, and the explosion happens in the story but is still just something making the cutscene cool.

2) No character has every single type of magic including physical strength increase just because he/she can use magic, and a character mayn't use reality warping to increase physical strength because of PIS for him/her or plot armor for the opponent.

2-Note) How did the profile's writer know the created place is a pocket realm?

- Characters flying past certain objects doesn't mean the latter aren't just background ones.

- The shattering crystal-like walls are boundaries of the place and universes lack boundaries.

3-5) Neither spin-offs nor mini-games have to be absolutely non-canon but they're in a lower canon level than Main Modes, and not even what-if's such as Extra Modes or True Arenas are the same canon level as Main Modes (seriously, Sectonia's death not making the vines disappear before her being revived by four Miracle Fruits?)

6) Kirby needs Super Abilities to break Magolor's force and repulsion fields, not to injure him.

- Dedede being possessed by Dark Matter doesn't mean the former is the same level as the latter.

7) That "black hole" is just like the one in the Main Mode, only with an extra visual illusion.

- How to find those particular ones' power? I hope you didn't want to say "They're tier 4 because Kirby has tier 4 feats" as that'd be like if I said "They're tier 9 because Kirby has tier 9 de-feats."

8) See point 11.

9) See point 2.

- That guy closed the thread because he didn't want to debate me, not because I commented on it.

10) Novas are moon-sized, as proven every time they're depicted along with Pop Star.

- The Halberd can withstand the Nova's attacks because it has the Robobot Armor's proportionate power in that moment, unlike in the opening cutscene.

- Characters' non-physical destructive capacity mayn't be the same level as their types of magic they perform their biggest feats with.

10-Note) Again, that must be just a visual illusion.

11a) Nothing shows that particular thing is even as large as it appears or doesn't just cover stars like a head covers a blackboard, and I want games to be slideshows to make aspects clearer.

11b) The explosion is inaccurately depicted, so the debris does matter, and the former doesn't work like supernova because it's not one.

- The phenomenon happens in the story, but it's still just something making the cutscene cool.

12-Note) Again, that galaxy isn't in Dream Land's dimension but in the World of Paintings, which is made of paint by nature.

13) See the previous points.

14) Schwarzs' "black holes" stop being true ones for the same reasons as Marx's and Magolor's.

15) That statement says the Robobot Armor obtains Kirby's power to copy abilities, not his physical power, and he needs its screwdriver to use Star Dream as a screw and struggles to do so.

- The Halberd doesn't have the robot's proportionate power when its laser beam hits him.

- - - - - - - - - -

16) Those and other arguments for the other Nintendo characters must be ones with the magic power = physical power misconception, realistic interpretations of unrealistic aspects, complicated calcs, literal interpretations of hyperboles, mistranslations, etc.

- Vegeta being unable to crack an egg open is from the inconsistent post-original Dragon Ball.
 
0) Kirby did it six times in that game, and the Warp Star reforms itself after crashing in Kirby's Return to Dreamland unavoidably seven times. Thirteen times total. I realized Kirby also gets a Warp Star off screen after the first cutscene of the Kirby's Return to Dreamland, so it's actually fourteen times. I don't see how a technique used fourteen times is considered an outlier, just because Kirby would rather use his phone in most circumstances. 3D Warp Stars with red orange centers reform after being used and appear throughout Kirby Triple Deluxe and Kirby Planet Robobot too, and I'm not going to watch a longplay of those games to count the large amount of times Warp Stars can be used and reformed unavoidably to 100% the games. 3D Warp Stars are subject to being questioned on whether Kirby can create them on his own, but the other fourteen times definitely are not. Since Kirby not being able to move with 3D controls is a undebatably a game mechanic, I think 3D Warp Stars are pretty different textured versions of the regular ones. On a different note, what if a character doesn't have a lot of games? If Sample Character uses a special attack in the first game they appear in, then only have two more games in the series in which they don't use it simply because they became strong enough to go without, we're not going to remove something from their profile in that case. More adventures and games should mean a wider arsenal and experience, not a disadvantage. Sample Character can figure out they will need to use their special attack again due to their opponent being stronger than anything they have faced in their verse after they stopped using it, but wouldn't be able to because they have had more occurrences where they didn't use it, making it not on their profile and restricted from them, even though it's apart of their arsenal. That is the way it works if you apply that logic to any character, and won't make much sense. I'll say it again: Out weighing de-feats with feats to make stuff vaild is not an optimal approach in the slightest. Also, why do you want fifteen proofs of Kirby being strong? If it's to outweigh Kirby's tier 9 feats then there's no need. Kirby's already portrayed as way higher than tier 9 and has consistent tier 9 feats, so there's no profile changes going to be happening.

1a) Which is more likely, the fight against Kirby and Nightmare causing an explosion due to their power, or a Waddle Dee accidentally nuking the moon at the coincidental time during an underground expedition? Who knows, maybe the disintegration of Nightmare could've cause a huge explosion of energy and pressure, causing the moon to have a hole in it. "and its level is higher than that of the villain's highest type of magic, his below country level dream manipulation, so it's an absurd instance.", so instead of counting this as a feat for Nighmare's magic to be higher than country level, since the Kirby VS Nightmare fight is the most likely reason the moon's piece exploded, the belief that he is lower just makes this feat invalid to you. This is a feat, not an outlier, since Kirby has dealt with planetary related things before.

1b) Oh right, it was cresent shaped in the first game. Still doesn't change the fact that an occurrence making a scene cool doesn't make the feat invalid. This isn't like Balloony's large planet level feat (squishing Four with his mini Earth), which is clearly just a gag. This was a serious event, just like Kirby characters's other planetary feats.


2) Many characters can hurt Kirby with their magic, meaning Kirby scales to their non-physical power, then they can all hurt Kirby with physical strength by bumping into him, meaning their physical strength is just as strong. Now to answer what you said, most characters don't have every single type of magic, but that doesn't mean they aren't powered by it to make them stronger. If not that, then they scale to all others they can hurt by bumping into them with no physical strength buffs.


2-Note) Solar systems, planets and stars fit inside a building, so of course it's a pocket realm.

- Objects being in the background rather than near the characters doesn't matter. Kirby and Magolor are racing past solar systems that are nearby them in Kirby's Dream Collection, and are just on a platform away from it.


- The place where Kirby and friends fight Magolor is not it's own universe. They fell onto a huge platform. The universe itself was colapsing, those weren't even boundaries, as Kirby and the others were able to go past where the shards of reality were being pulled apart perfectly fine on their way in and out.


3-5) Spin-offs aren't a "lower level" of cano. Canon means that events take place in the main universe of the story or main timeline, alternate canon means it takes place in a secondary or alternate universe. Non-canon means that events are not canon to the timeline we are talking about. It's not like we can take some feats from a game because it's a spin-off and leave some out because they don't seem to be believable to take place in the main story, it's all of the game or non of it. There being levels is made up. Kirby Right Back At Ya is non-canon cause the whole show contradicts the main canon, and is more of a rewriting of the story. Kirby Clash games are non canon cause they contradict most things in canon. What if scenarios like The True Arena or Meta Knightmare Ultra are non-canon, but are the exact same versions of the characters meaning we can take feats from them. Anything related to Galacta Knight is canon since he is a timeline traveler. Everything else including spin-offs and even sub-games like Megaton Punch and Star Slam Heroes are canon, debate stops there.

6) Just pointing out that it's not possible to defeat Magolor if he doesn't summon powerful enemies. This might as well be a game mechanic anyway, so you're right. I will replace this with another feat then. Kirby needs to use the Star Allies Sparkler to finish off Void Termina, but is strong enough to do it without against Void, in a what if scenario of Kirby Star Allies. Another, Kirby likely destroyed the core of the Access Ark when drilling through it at the end of Kirby Planet Robobot to defeat Star Dream, yet in a what if scenario of it, he can destroy it without the Robobot Armor. Him drilling through a planet with his own power is still a great feat, but if you don't believe that the Robobot Armor's power runs on the pilot's power, then it's another feat.


- King Dedede possesed by Dark Matter gives King Dedede new moves that are Dark Matter related, including a move that literally makes him shoot out mini Dark Matters, meaning that it takes the combined force of both of them.


7) This version of Magolor's black hole works more accurately to how black holes are supposed to work, because of the added effect. The effects being there don't even actually matter, but I must point it out anyway. Black holes that are unrealistic shouldn't be automatcially invalidated.


- Of course not, I'm saying that how else would one measure the power of a black hole without using methods used to measure the power of real black holes? Most characters's black holes are calculated to be large planet level, which is weaker than their actual power, meaning them being fake black holes actually makes them stronger due to their attack potency being higher than large planet level. It's still large planet level, which still qualifies as another proof of them being far stronger than tier 9.


8) I'll see point 11 then.


9) Kirby was there when the universe or multiverse was collapsing. Kirby can also survive attacks from Magolor's magic attacks, which are established to be powered by the Master Crown, which was the same power that minimumly destroyed tens of solar systems in an instant.


- That's because he wanted to debate about realistic changes. Multiple experienced members have established the approximate stats for Kirby, and it's clearly the way you view characters for multiple verses to go down by multiple tiers, this one being five tiers, just because of already reviewed and invalidated tier 9 feats, where the characters are nowhere near their peak.


10) The Access Ark is clearly at a comparable size to Popstar, this is not the same NOVA as in Kirby Super Star.


- I mean that Kirby has his own strong feats like multi-solar system level, and the Halberd has survived attacks from Kirby on a few occasions, meaing that the Halberd's durability also scales to Kirby's and Star Dream's. Kirby's power being fused with the Robobot Armor makes this still another feat for Kirby. You'll see my reason when you get to the 15's point. On a side note, in real life, the Halberd's attacks out definitely be at least one tier higher than tier 9, and Kirby can survive those attacks.


- There's not many ways to measure it other than that. Kirby and the Halberd can escape from Star Dream's pull that can spin stars, meaning it scales to them, and since Star Dream's attacks scale to Kirby and the Halberd's, it's still a stellar feat.


10-Note) There is nothing to lead me to believe this is an illusion. Magolor's Soul's black hole could be an illusion since he has lots of reality warping, but this, is way too unlikely. It's a planet sized suction.


11a) This explosion did launch Kirby and friends from the farthest reaches of the universe back near Popstar though. Those galaxies look smaller too since they are farther away, and the supernova was also gaining size while the screen wasn't facing it. This is, still, a supernova we are talking about, and if you look closely, you can see that the center of the supernova was actually really close to the galaxies in the background. You can tell by looking at the shine before the explosion occurs. As for the lag, many people don't want the game to lag as a standard, so the developers won't overload the game with too many assets or too big assets. I don't care much about frames per second either, but still.


11b) I don't know if assuming everything related to space is fake is a good thing. If it's inaccurate because of the way the debris functions, even though the size of this explosion is actually massive compared to what I first though upon further inspection, it still shouldn't be treated as a fake supernova. Technically everything is fake, since this is fiction, and we shouldn't be taking accuracy this critically because of that.


- Still doesn't change the fact that an occurrence making a scene cool doesn't make the feat invalid. This isn't like Balloony's large planet level feat (squishing Four with his mini Earth), which is clearly just a gag. This was a serious event, just like Kirby characters's other multi-solar system level feats. (Even though this is a multi-galaxy feat but no one is planing to upgrade Kirby with it.)

12-Note) "...transformed the world into a work of art", "Kirby gives chase... Into a world of paintings". Drawcia transformed the world into the World of Paintings, as it's rename. She also deleted multiple solar systems that were in the world of painting according to the profile. Her profile has loads of links, so check it out. Drawcia is still established to turn worlds into paintings, and while the continential feat of warping Dream Land into it is well known, it was later found out that she did this to multiple solar systems, which is what is called the World of Paintings, renamed by her or the narrator.

13) I saw previous points. Star Dream saying this is still believable judging the series.

14) Number 7 explains this. I should mention that Daroach said that it's a a black hole, since it doesn't look like one.

15) I didn't think I'd need to give so much details on this one...

This mysterious mech produces different powers depending on its pilot. Kirby's Copy Ability power has transformed it into a shape-shifting copy robot!
"This mysterious mech produces different powers depending on the pilot", depending on the pilot, the powers the mech has will be different. This is why the Invader Armor mid-boss isn't as strong as Star Dream or anything like that, because it wasn't being piloted by Kirby. In the case that it's not powered by the pilot, if you're saying the Robobot Armor is the main reason Kirby can destroy the Access Ark, but the Robobot Armor isn't strong enough to destroy Kirby, then you are still saying Kirby is planet level. You're last resort is to say that the Halberd was the reason Kirby can destroy Star Dream, but Kirby can also survive attacks from the Halberd. There is no escape from the fact that the Access Ark got destoryed by either Kirby's own power or something Kirby scales to. Now to finish the quote, "Kirby's Copy Ability power has transformed it into a shape-shifting copy robot!", which is literally just saying that Kirby piloting it gave it the power of shape-shifting and power copying, I don't think I need to make it much more clearer. Obviously this means that Kirby needing certain abilities to destroy metal blocks and such is just a game mechanic to make the puzzles in the games be actual puzzles, and doesn't reflect his true power. I also mentioned that Kirby can finish off Star Dream without the Robobot Armor in a what if scenario at some point above. It doesn't matter if Kirby struggles to turn Star Dream as a screw, as Star Dream is clearly more durable than a normal big screw. Kirby's also comparable to Star Dream, not being portrayed as a character that blitzes everyone with his power, meaning of course he would struggle to screw it in. And screw it into a planet sized base at that.

- - - - - - - - - -

16) A lot of that is not the problem at all. The reason characters are as strong as they are, is because they have feats that you want to find every reason to prove invalid because they have done weaker things as well. Thousands of profiles of characters that fall into this category being changed is not happening. We will discuss why outweighing de-feats with feats is never a consistent way to determine a character's power at number 0.

- The quotes weren't meant to be literal, clearly Vegeta isn't actually below average human. Just like the other characters I mentioned aren't actually that weak either. I was using de-feats over feats in those examples.
 
I don't have enough time or energy to go over everything, but I lost count how many times the OP brought up the same arguments over and over again. But I will say everything in the OP is laughably out of context, borderline ignorant, and Eficiente said it best it's pointless to argue.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I don't have enough time or energy to go over everything, but I lost count how many times the OP brought up the same arguments over and over again. But I will say everything in the OP is laughably out of context, borderline ignorant, and Eficiente said it best it's pointless to argue.
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You know, I'm the only one who actually wants to debate with Somelatinguy at this point. I'm doing it cause I'm nice.
 
0) The "seventh" Warp Star (sixth, actually) reforms by itself as you said, the 13th one must fly to him by itself, and 3D ones reform by themselves, so they're only five times in only one game.

- This thread isn't about outweighing feats and de-feats, but about debunking the former.

1a) Nightmare needed to corrupt the Fountain of Dreams in order to torment the country Dream Land, which means his most powerful magic type, dream manipulation, is below country level, so the chunk's explosion is more powerful than him; that alone makes the instance an invalid one.

1b) The explosion making the cutscene cooler mayn't make it invalid, but the latter being invalid for multiple reasons does make the former just making it cooler.

2) Again, characters' offensive magic and physical power may be lower levels than their magic types they perform their biggest feats with, of which a good example is Masked Dedede needing to charge three balls in order to destroy a statue, which scales to some opponents such as Magolor.

- To be powered by magic, a magic user needs the power increase magic type and magic users only have the magic types they prove to have learned.

2-Note) The Magolor Races take place in places outside their respective levels and he must go to them through portals, I didn't get the point in the paragraph's middle, and the walls' shards simply float among the Lor and characters where time and space still exist.

3-5) Alternate canon? Also, canon levels are a thing.

6) So Star Allies's True Arena contradicts its Main Mode just like in Triple Deluxe's case.

- It's much easier to destroy a Nova's core while inside the comet, using Star Dream as a screw is using the fusion's weak point, and see point 15.

- Dark Matter giving Dedede new moves doesn't mean he also gives him more power.

7) That effect isn't a characteristic of true black holes.

- The same petitio principii again.

9) See point 2.

- Well, this discussion will prove how he's honestly wrong.

10) Here, link 1 and link 2, with link 3 being a little less accurate.

- You can't say he has multi-solar system level feats as these 15 points haven't been proven, he destroys one of the Halberd's components after another on one occasion, see point 15 again, and his durability is higher than his strength.

- See point 10-Note.

10-Note) It "rotates stars and nebulae" with the same power it barely inhales asteroids slowly.

11a) The explosion never reaches them, which is clear as his friends are behind him and aren't unconscious afterward like he is; he actually faints from exhaustion because of his struggle, just like after he defeats Dark Matter, Magolor, and Star Dream.

- That small apparent size of the galaxies and short distance between the explosion and them makes the instance more absurd given the debris's speed.

- It's still more convenient to make cutscenes longer for clarity's sake.

1b) The explosion should be taken as one enlarged for cooler effect.

- See point 1b.

12-Note) https://kirby.fandom.com/ja/wiki/Òé┐ÒââÒâü!_Òé½Òâ╝ÒâôÒéú (Òé¬Òâ╝ÒâùÒâïÒâ│Òé░Òü«Òé╣ÒâêÒâ╝Òâ¬Òâ╝ section).

"ÒüôÒüôÒü»Õ╣│ÕÆîÒü«µÑ¢Õ£ÆÒâùÒâùÒâùÒâ®Òâ│Òâë" presents Dream Land.

"Òé½Òâ╝ÒâôÒéúÒü½µ░ùÒüÑÒüäÒüƒÚ¡öÕÑ│Òü»þ®║Òü½µÁ«ÒüïÒüÂÒüÁÒüùÒüÄÒü¬Úíìþ©üÒü©Òü¿ÚÇâÒüÆÞ¥╝Òü┐Òü¥ÒüùÒüƒ" says Drawcia flies through a portal.

"ÒüØÒüôÒü»þÁÁþö╗Òü«õ©ûþòîÒüºÒüùÒüƒ" presents the World of Paintings.

Even the translation mentions the portal.

13) Then that statement is really like Piccolo Daimaō's.

14) Yes, point 7 explains this, and Daroach doesn't say what kind of black hole that one is and it doesn't look like a true one as you said.

15) https://kirby.fandom.com/ja/wiki/Òâ¡Òâ£Òâ£ÒéóÒâ╝Òâ×Òâ╝ (ÒâØÒâ╝Òé║µÖéÒü«Þ¬¼µÿĵûç section).

"õ╣ùÒéïÞÇàÒü½ÒéêÒüúÒüª Òü»ÒüúÒüìÒüÖÒéïÒâæÒâ»Òâ╝Òüî ÒüôÒü¿Òü¬Òéï ÒâèÒé¥Òü«Òâ×ÒéÀÒâ│ÒÇé" says the robot obtains different powers depending on its rider.

"Òé│ÒâöÒâ╝ÒüºÒüìÒéï Òé½Òâ╝ÒâôÒéúÒüîõ╣ùÒéïÒü¿ÒÇüÒüªÒüìÒü« ÒüøÒüäÞâ¢ÒéÆ Òé╣Òé¡ÒâúÒâ│ÒüÖÒéïÕñëÕ¢óÒé│ÒâöÒâ╝Òâ¡Òâ£Òü¿Òü¬ÒüúÒüƒ!" says the obtained power is the one to scan abilities if its rider is him.
 
Not to be rude or anything of the sort, but you could just keep these opinions on how strong you think Kirby/Nintendo is to yourself? As DDM and efi said, this is pointless/laughable.
 
0) That's still a technique he used five times, technically him using it only once would be considered valid, but more times means it's even more valid. Also, there is no explanation as to why Kirby gets a Warp Star off screen in the opening cutscene of Kirby's Return to Dreamland, so it's more likely he created a Warp Star, since he's been shown to do it in Kirby's Dreamland 3. Further more, if the Warp Star reforms every time Kirby is finished with it onward from there outside of levels, that means it can be refomred itself, serving practically the same use as Kirby creating one. It reforms after it breaks, when Kirby originally created it, meaning it can come back after it breaks in a VS battle perfectly fine.

- Good then. I should mention that people have already validated the feats a long time ago, and you weren't happy with the responce staff gave you, so they desided to stop debating with you. Why would anything I say make you happy then, if an actual content moderater who works for the wiki was apparently wrong? This is one reason people are saying this is a waste of time.

1a) That's not even the reason he corrupted the Fountain of Dreams. "Every fountain holds a Star Rod at the top, which powers the fountain and enables its waters to flow. Without the Star Rod, the Fountain of Dreams will stop working, and the people of the planet will have either dreamless sleep or nightmares, causing restlessness and irritation." Without Popstar's Fountain of Dreams working, it's inhabitants was susceptible to getting nightmares. If Popstar didn't have a Fountain of Dreams, Nightmare could just casually go there and cause nighmares and torment to the planet. He needed to corrupt the Fountain of Dreams, cause it is a very powerful object. The ancients were the ones who created the Star Rods that go on top of the fountains, and the ancients where the same people who created the Lor Starcutter, the Master Crown, Star Dream, along with other advanced magic artifacts and technology. Nighmare actually needed to do a feat way better than it seemed at first glance.

1b) Then there's no need to have a point 1b. Just a point 1, for what is now called 1a.

2) Yet Masked Dedede also scales Magolor's feats of destroying multiple solar systems and creating multiple solar systems with the Master Crown's power, the same power used in his magic attacks that Kirby can survive, and Masked Dedede can hurt Kirby. Kirby scales to characters with feats like this too, and most of them are at other points. And plus, nothing implies that King Dedede needed to charge his attack to destory the statue, as a normal axe swipe destroys the one he was near perfectly fine. The only other occurences of King Dedede not being able to destroy rocks and metal is because of game mechanics, the developers wanting to create a puzzle or simple obstacle, which are automatcially invalid feats if a character has proven themselves stronger. I'm not making that up, it's the way measuring a character's canon power works, ask any other experienced member.

- There is no definite type of magic, and a character being magical should mean that they are using it to become stronger. If not, which is likely as well, then bumping into characters as physical strength is a perfect example of a physical strength feat. I know Magolor is said to be powered by the Master Crown, they don't have to specify that it's the power increase type magic, cause magic is a pretty general term. It's most likely that characters use their power to make melee attacks stronger.

2-Note) Then explain why the doors to enter look like basically all other doors in the Kirby series. There is no indication that the place is just a tiny house that Magolor has a portal to space in. He said he created the theme parks, so it would be more likely for him to just make a normal road in the same world, like a normal theme park creator would, but it's apparent that he's using his magic to make this park more interesting. Why would he build castles in one world that lead to another structure in another world? They are pocket realms in the castles and houses.

- My point is that Kirby and Magolor are racing past multiple solar systems, even though they aren't racing through and around them. They are racing past them.

- So then what was happening, absolutely nothing? The characters were clearly in danger, and the universe was said to be collapsing. There were no more solar systems when flying through Another dimension, unlike when flying through it earlier. It's clear that something happened. The shards are not boundaries to the universe, as that is completely made up. If this was just some huge plateform or dwarf planet one the way in, there's no reason to believe it somehow turned into a mini universe.

2-5) Alternate canon, a canon that is alternate to the main canon. Can replace the word canon with timeline. And if canon levels are a thing, explain to me how we can take so things from a "lower level canon" and can't take other things. In a timeline, it's not like some things can happen in a different one and some things can't, it's a universe. Maybe on wikipedia they mean that there are different canons of Star Wars that are numbered or something. That is just not the way cano works, most people's understanding of canon has no levels in it. Overall, tell how there being different levels of canon would even work.

6) So? It's confirmed to be a what if scenario, meaning it's non canon the main game, but it's an alternate timeline with the same verisons of the characters. If they are confirmed to be the same versions of the characters in a different timeline, then it's not contredictory, but a feat instead. That's why there is alternate timeline exclusive feats on Kirby's profile already. Galacta Knight only exists within these alternate realities, and he can travel to different timelines, so the games are definitely playing around with these what if scenarios to some extent.

- Still coming from the same power source, which we will talk about in point 15.

- Dark Matter definitely amplifies King Dedede in a way. King Dedede without Dark Matter's corruption usually uses melee attacks and his more special attacks like Inhale, while King Dedede possesed by Dark Matter is creepily floating while mostly using his stomach as a mouth. This definitely is not the same King Dedede, as he doesn't even seem to be conscious most of the time. If anything, Dark Matter is fighting Kirby with it's own power while using King Dedede as a host, which means Kirby still at least defeated Dark Matter alone without a final weapon.

7) I don't even think I should've mentioned the the extra effect, as I was only trying to show you how it was a bit more realistic. "Black holes that are unrealistic shouldn't be automatcially invalidated." is my main point.

- But then I go on to tell more than just begging the question. Read it completely. Just saying "petitio principii" doesn't answer everything I wrote. "Most characters's black holes are calculated to be large planet level, which is weaker than their actual power, meaning them being fake black holes actually makes them stronger due to their attack potency being higher than large planet level. It's still large planet level, which still qualifies as another proof of them being far stronger than tier 9." is left unanswered. And if you want me to reword the first part, just to make you happy, I'll do that: Of course not, I'm saying that I don't think there is another good way of measuring the power of a black hole without using methods used to measure the power of real black holes.

9) These powers don't exclusively target stars and the background celestial bodies, this non-physical power was used when Kirby and the others were there, meaning that he survived it.

- Most notable word, multiple, in multiple experienced members. Not to mention that most also agree, not because we don't know any better, because we also think that these aproximate stats reflect the character well. You are either the new genius on a completely higher scale than everyone else, or someone who isn't understanding the way VS battles work properly, and since I understand your reasoning, I think it's the second possibility.

10) The first link shows that one of it's legs are at a comparable size to a continent, while the Access Ark itself is even bigger, though this is just a world map size inconsistency, so it shouldn't even be taken seriously. The second link is the same thing, but in a cutscene instead, and the third link shows it a bit smaller than it is in other scenes, but still at a comparable size. The second link is the only one that's a bit weird, but the Access Ark is always portrayed as only a little bit smaller than Popstar. It has a size inconsistency, but usually not by a lot. In the second link, Star Dream should be at a comparable size to an island compared to Popstar's size in the scene. Star Dream also should definitely not be almost the size of a moon when it was fusing. If we con't take the size inconsistency of that clip into consideration, then the Acess Ark is only as big as a huge buliding, or Star Dream somehow grew to the size of the tallest mountain ever seen. Clearly exploring inside the Access Ark or near it will reveal it is not that small, and Star Dream clearly isn't the size of a moon or something, so it definitely doesn't count. Even if these size inconsistencies are ignored, the Access Ark is nowhere near as small as the moo. If you are saying that Popstar is moon sized, then no way, there are way to many continents packed with inhabitants on one side of it.

- These fifteen points have already been proven in the past, but you chose to not take the answer you got. All these points have been brougth up on numerous occasions. If not that, then these fifteen points have yet to be proven because we are still talking about them. Kirby destroys pieces of the Halberds heavy weaponry in Kirby's Epic Yarn. Not as impressive as in Kirby Super Star, but it's still not only one time he can damage the Halberd. Speaking of Kirby's Epic Yarn, Yin-Yarn can turn the Halberd into patch material, yet Kirby can survive getting hurt by any of his attack.

- That point is next, so let's go.

10-Note) That's a downplay, it quickly inhales lots of meteors once it starts inhaling without a problem.

11a) Kirby always falls asleep because he is lazy outside of battle, he would never just fall from exhaustion in battle unless he actually can't handle the opponent's power. And explosions cause lots of pressure around them, and doesn't need to touch a person to send them flying. It's all up to interpretation, whether the explosion lauched them or not. Kirby wasn't fighting, so he fall asleep after getting lauched, and his friends seemingly woke him up when he they finished flying away.

- Let's not assume it's a fake supernova because of that. It is inaccurate to real supernovas because it is fiction, and shouldn't be treated as your average explosion. The center of the explosion was really far away and close to the galaxies if you look closely at the shine before the explosion occurs, and quickly spread towards the camera. Of course an explosion like that would launch the characters from the farthes reaches of the universe to a place closer to their home, because of how strong it was. And why are you saying that all these explosions are fake and great feats are fake, but the iron and rock breaking de-feats are not. Since Kirby characters have loads of stellar feats, I could also say that him not being able to break iron is invalid cause the iron is fake. Or because it is just game mechanics to make puzzles. Saying most feats are fake and de-feats are not is a biased argument, all because wall level feats are easier to understand. Supernovas are more complicated, but people manage and take feats from it instead of just assuming it's fake. Check out calculations on the Kirby series if you want to know more, about Kirby characters's non multi-solar system level feats, and speed feats.

- Well they weren't clear. The screen faded into white, and the debris of that multi-galaxy level supernova was near the characters in the next scene, implying that it launched them there. It is not a fake supernova, just inspect it more carefully. I don't think you are looking at the clip to actually find a feat out of it.

11b) I'd say the same thing, see point 1b. To be honest, I don't even see how explosions make stuff cool. I can say the same thing for the de-feats, don't think it only goes one way. King Dedede being able to take down a rock wall in style instead of one-shotting it is cool, which is why they made him not one-shot it in one instance, and doesn't reflect his true power.

12-Note) Still, Drawcia is continential for turning Dream Land into paint. She also transformed parts of space into paint, which is large star level. If you look on her profile, there are plenty of links to more feats like her manipulating the World of Paintings to the point of the the background being completely indistinguishable. Multiple solar systems were also shown to be deleted. Not only that, she's been portrayed to turn a world into a painting, in different games. It's unlikely that a mistranslation would occur twice, or what ever more amount of times it was referenced.

13) Galacta Knight one-shots Star Dream, which took multiple hits from the Robobot Armor powered by Kirby and fused with the Halberd. Or, since I know you will tell me you don't think Kirby powers the Robobot Armor, Star Dream can take multiple hits from the Robobot Armor fused with the Halberd with someone piloting it, presumably Kirby. Either way, Star Dream is more durable than tier 9, as these shots from the [insert whatever you want to believe this is] Armor should at least be tier be tier 6 or 5, and is tier 4 due to other reasons from the fact that the Access Ark is very big. Galacta Knight also one-shots Parallel Nightmare, and before you say that's non-canon, I have mentioned that Galacta Knight can travel timelines, and has yet to appear in the main story, so this is canon. Parallel Nightmare is supposedly more durable than regular Nightmare, who can keep up with a planet protecting rod, which is the Star Rod. Galacta Knight also scales to lots of characters thanks to Kirby Star Allies and Kirby's Return to Dream Land. Because of feats, this statement is believable. Yes I know that Star Dream only got knocked out, but it still knocked it out with one hit.

14) Point 7's still my answer. And as I have also said, just cause it doesn't look like a black hole, doesn't mean it isn't.

15) "obtains different powers depending on its rider." Is literally saying that it's powers change depending on the one who is piloting. "obtained power is the one to scan abilities if its rider is him." basically saying "get abilities by scanning enemies if the rider is Kirby" in not broken English. It is not saying I'm wrong. This still doesn't explain why Kirby is stronger than the Robobot Armor while a regular enemy is piloting it, but can destroy a planet while using it himself. Even a moon would be impressive, if the Access Ark was moon sized, which it is not. If the Robobot Armor doesn't get powered up by it's pilot, then Kirby scales to it since he can easily defeat it. Tier 5 feat.
 
That.one.mofo said:
Not to be rude or anything of the sort, but you could just keep these opinions on how strong you think Kirby/Nintendo is to yourself? As DDM and efi said, this is pointless/laughable.
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Don't worry, I've done this loads of times on YouTube. If he doesn't want to believe the answers he already got by the staff, causing them to have no interest in him anymore, then it's up to me to be the only one that still cares.
 
Then no point in putting this in the content revision thread board since nothing is being revised. But am not in this debate so i should mind my business. Continue.
 
That.one.mofo said:
Then no point in putting this in the content revision thread board since nothing is being revised. But am not in this debate so i should mind my business. Continue.
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It's fine, I agree. It's just that I don't want Somelatinguy to leave empty handed. I'm generous.
 
0a) These three cutscenes mean Warp Stars have their own mind and senses, which explains Kirby getting them off screen and coming across them them on screen so often.

- Them being able to regenerate has nothing to do with him being able or unable to create them.

- One group of five similar instances in one game is an outlier.

0b) That simply has nothing to do with the truth about the verse.

1) The affected place is the country named Dream Land, and the Fountain of Dreams corrupted by Nightmare was generating nightmares until the Star Rod was removed from it later.

- So, his most powerful magic type, dream manipulation, is much weaker than that explosion, which alone makes the instance non-legit.

2a) Even if what collapses were many created solar systems, they'd collapse because their creator was defeated, not because "he destroyed them", so Magolor's physical power and offensive magic scale to Dedede's small statue level ones.

2b) If the penguin didn't need to charge the balls to destroy the first statue, him doing so would be pointless, and one axe swing destroying the second statue means it's stronger than one ball.

- In fact, Mask Dedede is stated to be more powerful than base Dedede.

2c) You're forgetting that this is a cutscene and that GMs being set to increase/decrease challenge doesn't make them non-canon (Red having to help Saffron City's guards is a GM set so the player has to find the drinks, but also because Red canonically can't pass without authorities' permission).

2d) There are definitely types of magic, and assuming a character has every single one including strength increase just because he/she's a magic user is like assuming a person can play every single instrument, compose, arrange, conduct, produce, etc. just because he/she's a musician.

2-Note a) There's no indication of Magolor actually having created that universe either, and he said he created the theme parks, not the worlds they're in.

2-Note b) They move past many solar systems almost as soon as moving past foreground elements? The former just scroll to depict motion.

2-Note c) The danger is being trapped by the strange wall and unable to cross the portal about to close, the time and space still exist, and the crystal-like walls and the floor they stand on have a purpose, so the stars and nebulae not appearing is a minor detail.

3-5) I'll simply prove canon levels are a thing: Only Extra Modes and True Arenas are stated to be alternate continuities, so spin-offs and the other mini-games are in a lower canon level, and not even alternate continuities are the same level as Main Modes (Sectonia's deaths not breaking her vine growing spell, Void Termina defeated without the Star Allies Sparkler…).

6) See point 3-5 / OK / Even if Dark Matter really increased Dedede's power, it would've been a small increase, as the puffball having to get all the Rainbow Drops in order to get the Rainbow Sword would be pointless if he could defeat both opponents without the weapon.

7) Then prove the other points and those pseudo-black holes will've been proven to be tier 4.

9) See point 2 / OK.

10a) Comparisons are confusing as Pop Star's and Earth's shapes are different, but the Nova's size is closer to the moon's than to even Mars's especially in the second link.

- Star Dream's shown size while along with the comet isn't legit, as the Robobot Armor's screwdriver perfectly fits in with its head.

10b) Same as point 7 / He needs the Star Shooter for that feat / Same as point 2.

10-Note) If the Nova used that attack with the power needed to actually spin stars and nebulae, the much smaller, lighter, and nearer asteroids would be inhaled much faster.

11a) All the instances in which he's "asleep" after defeating a villain are ones in which he struggled to do so: He can't inflict much damage to Dark Matter with the Rainbow Sword directly and must struggle to deflect his orbs back at him with it, he struggles to break Magolor's repulsion field with Ultra Sword, he struggles to use Star Dream-Nova's weak point with the Robobot Armor and even screams, and he struggles to overpower Void Termina with the Star Allies Sparkler and even screams.

- Responding to an argument by repeating the ones it responded to / See the previous points.

- OK.

11b) Explosions make scenes cooler than hammer swing styles.

12-Note) She needed the Magical Paintbrush to paint the country even though she's a painter / Those parts of space are in the universe made of paint by nature / Same as point 2 / Nothing shows those solar systems are deleted instead of just covered / Yes, the Dream Land world.

13) Kirby  Galacta Knight > Star Dream  (Halberd + Invader Armor + Kirby)? Star Dream must use size increase for the battle's first phase and revert to normal afterward (see point 10a).

- Time travelers can only travel between timelines in the continuity they're in, and if that game were canon because Galacta Knight is to appear in the main continuity, then the Dragon Ball Z films would be canon because Broly is from them.

14) See point 7 / It doesn't attract light spanning its entire surroundings, doesn't cause time dilation, has a limited suction field, lasts only seconds, and disappears without exploding.

15a) The Robobot Armor may receive some power increase from him, but it's still more powerful than him (Robobot Armor = (Invader Armor + Kirby) > Kirby).

15b) Even the Invader Armor is actually more powerful than him; it can injure him with its fists or body, whereas he needs Star Bullets or Copy Abilities to damage it and doesn't even destroy it when defeating it.

15c) If anything, the Robobot Armor obtains more durability than strength from him (Kirby's durability > Kirby's strength).
 
No offence, but the thread is just getting even more ridiculous.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
No offence, but the thread is just getting even more ridiculous.
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I know this method of doing points isn't going to get anywhere. It's organized, but each individual point is unconnected. There is no way to "prove" that Kirby consistently has tier 5 and above feats without talking about all of them at once. Maybe there should be a different method to this.

Also, this thread has been delaying the production of Lightning's profile of this wiki, so I'm going to stop. You can close this thread if you want, because I'm the only one that still wants to debate with Somelatinguy at this point.
 
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