A New WWE Scaling Chain!

[DivineAura44]

I'm saying we applied upgrades too hastily. We literally just had a talk about why some tiering doesn't make sense a couple of days ago.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'm saying we applied upgrades too hastily. We literally just had a talk about why some tiering doesn't make sense a couple of days ago.

You mean like we should talk about what tiers the wrestlers should be in?

 

[DivineAura44]

Precisely.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Precisely.

1. That's literally what I did.
2. That's not hard to do at all.
3. There's no need to atm.

 

[Bruhtelho]

if you have an issue with where wrestlers are placed in the scaling chain then instead of saying we should of done something, point out which wrestlers you agree or disagree with.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Supernatural Tier: "The Demon" Finn Balor, "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt, and The Undertaker. The best of the best in the company. Only appear on special occasions, and usually have a presence about them that even startles the God Tiers of the verse. The Demon has a perfect match record, with the exception of losing to Roman Reigns, but Roman had to scuff out a win here. Facing The Undertaker at Wrestlemania is considered an honor and something to earn by many, even for the God Tiers of the verse. Wrestlers on this caliber scale significantly above 3,486,284.83209 Joules.

God Tier: Top Tier main eventers. Strongest of the verse, excluding the Supernatural tier. Have faced and defeated the best of the best on numerous occasions, which even includes some of the characters in the Supernatural tier. Wrestlers of this caliber include the likes of Roman Reigns, John Cena, Triple H, The Rock, Stone Cold, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, The Big Show, Drew McIntyre and much, much more. Wrestlers on this caliber scale to 3,486,284.83209 Joules.

Top Tier: Main event level superstars. Have faced and even occasionally defeated some of the best the company has to offer. Wrestlers of this caliber include base Finn Balor, Austin Theory, Mark Henry, The Usos, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, John Morrison, and many more. Wrestlers on this caliber scale to 2,842,127.28351 Joules.

High Tier: Best suited for characters that are considered "Upper Mid Carders." Characters that usually stand little to no chance against the God Tiers, but can put up really good fights against the main event level superstars, and even some of them arguably being on their level. Wrestlers like Sami Zayn, Wade Barrett, most Tag Teams, and more belong here. Wrestlers on this caliber scale to 1,614,799.77639 Joules.

Mid Tier: Certified mid carders in wrestling. Stomped by God Tiers, stands little chance against main eventers, and would put up very good fights against the upper mid carders, with some arguably being on that level. Wrestlers Ricochet, Mr. Kennedy, Shelton Benjamin, and more belong in this tier. Wrestlers are on this caliber scale to 1,000,000 Joules (due to downscaling from the High Tiers).

Low Tier: Low mid carders to jobbers belong here. The strongest in the low tier can put up a good fight against some mid carders, and at best can do minimal damage to the upper mid carders. They get stomped by the top tiers and eviscerated by the god tiers. Characters like Curt Hawkins, Santino Marella, James Ellsworth, and more are in this tier. Wrestlers on this caliber scale to 310.7 Kilojoules.

 

[DivineAura44]

if you have an issue with where wrestlers are placed in the scaling chain then instead of saying we should of done something, point out which wrestlers you agree or disagree with.

I've been pretty vocal about it. I think The Fiend should be the only Supernatural.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I've been pretty vocal about it. I think The Fiend should be the only Supernatural.

Aight, that's a bit too much.

The Fiend is on a different level, yes, but the only Supernatural???

The Demon and Ultimate Warrior should without a doubt be Supernatural Tier.

People like Undertaker and Brock Lesnar are a bit debatable, though. I feel like they should just be God Tier, but the strongest of that tier.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Aight, that's a bit too much.

The Fiend is on a different level, yes, but the only Supernatural???

The Demon and Ultimate Warrior should without a doubt be Supernatural Tier.

People like Undertaker and Brock Lesnar are a bit debatable, though. I feel like they should just be God Tier, but the strongest of that tier.

basically what Random said, Supernatural is a tier meant for characters/personalities that are clearly Supernatural compared to the rest of the verse.

 

[DivineAura44]

So you agree he's on a different tier of power but don't think he should be on a different tier? Got it. UW is ok but The Demon really isn't all that he's hyped up to be. The Fiend is supernatural because of his no selling. The Demon is supernatural because he doesn't have much losses.

 

[DivineAura44]

basically what Random said, Supernatural is a tier meant for characters/personalities that are clearly Supernatural compared to the rest of the verse.

I don't think you understand. I'm saying the Demon doesn't apply.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The Demon is supernatural because he doesn't have much losses.

The Demon has only 1 clean loss, and that was to Samoa Joe.

Every other match he has won, or someone had to scuff out a win (Roman Reigns).

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Off topic, but can we talk about how great this segment was? ******* glorious.

 

[DivineAura44]

The Demon has only 1 clean loss, and that was to Samoa Joe.

Every other match he has won, or someone had to scuff out a win (Roman Reigns).

That isn't much impressive when he doesn't have that many matches. Prime GB was more impressive with his 395 - 5.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The Demon has only 1 clean loss, and that was to Samoa Joe.

Every other match he has won, or someone had to scuff out a win (Roman Reigns).

Honestly? I'm with Divine on that not being enough.

Comparing that to Undertaker's insane hype over a period of decades (particularly during Ruthless Aggression era after the return of the Deadman), coupled with his insane streak. That's more than enough proof of him being above the rest.

Comparing that to The Fiend, who has one of the most insane feats of the modern era, that he was straight up unaffected, and also has the hype of being called the single most dangerous opponent that a god tier has ever faced (a god tier that also faced the other candidate for Supernatural).

 

[RandomGuy2345]

That isn't much impressive when we don't have that many matches. Prime GB was more impressive with his 395 - 5.

You're going have to talk to @Pikaman about this. He's the Finn Balor guy after all lol.

Anyways, records aren't the only thing we should be talking about. We need to talk about hax as well. With his Type 4 Immortality and Teleportation, I feel like The Demon should be Supernatural Tier.

Hell, we even did a versus thread on The Demon vs The Undertaker, and The Demon ended up winning.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Hell, we even did a versus thread on The Demon vs The Undertaker, and The Demon ended up winning.

then someone argued very poorly

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Comparing that to Undertaker's insane hype over a period of decades (particularly during Ruthless Aggression era after the return of the Deadman), coupled with his insane streak. That's more than enough proof of him being above the rest.

Yet he loses to guys who aren't even Supernatural Tier to begin with. He's only Supernatural Tier when we're talking about him at Wrestlemania, and even then, his 2 losses were against 2 God Tiers (Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar).

Unless you want to argue that Roman and Brock are Supernatural Tier. If they are going to be moved up, they shouldn't be superior to The Demon, as Roman literally had to get lucky in order to win, and Brock has lost to Roman clean before.

 

[DivineAura44]

Roman getting lucky doesn't invalidate his win/make it less impressive. Luck takes place in a lot of matches. Roman's resume is strong enough to be Supernatural but here's the problem, if we put him there the entire Supernatural Tier is invalidated.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yet he loses to guys who aren't even Supernatural Tier to begin with. He's only Supernatural Tier when we're talking about him at Wrestlemania, and even then, his 2 losses were against 2 God Tiers (Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar).

Unless you want to argue that Roman and Brock are Supernatural Tier. If they are going to be moved up, they shouldn't be superior to The Demon, as Roman literally had to get lucky in order to win, and Brock has lost to Roman clean before.

I'm arguing he only started becoming a true supernatural after his resurrection, then started slowing down.

Something which, iirc, was even acknowledged with commentary.

The problem I see here is we aren't taking into consideration the fact that wrestlers can evolve and get better and then worse with time, depending on the era. Something that would necessitate keys.

Taker was definitely not Supernatural tier anymore against Roman. He could barely do his trademark sit up.

 

[DivineAura44]

You're going have to talk to @Pikaman about this. He's the Finn Balor guy after all lol.

Anyways, records aren't the only thing we should be talking about. We need to talk about hax as well. With his Type 4 Immortality and Teleportation, I feel like The Demon should be Supernatural Tier.

Hell, we even did a versus thread on The Demon vs The Undertaker, and The Demon ended up winning.

Can I not? He's gonna kick my ass. Also hax doesn't matter in the end. I can have every hax in the book. If my record is 0 - 50 (including losses to high, mid, and low tiers) and all of them end up in me getting stomped, I'm a jobber.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Can I not? He's gonna kick my ass. Also hax doesn't matter in the end. I can have every hax in the book. If my record is 0 - 50 (including losses to high, mid, and low tiers) and all of them end up in me getting stomped, I'm a jobber.

Papa Shango and Fantassio calling for infringement of gimmick

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Roman getting lucky doesn't invalidate his win/make it less impressive. Luck takes place in a lot of matches. Roman's resume is strong enough to be Supernatural but here's the problem, if we put him there the entire Supernatural Tier is invalidated.

If you win a match due to something that was literally out of your control, how does it not make it less impressive? Roman was going to lose before the ropes just magically broke.

That's why I think just adding and removing people from Supernatural Tier shouldn't be done so casually. If one person being moved up to Supernatural Tier invalidates the tier, then wtf are we doing?

Can I not? He's gonna kick my ass. Also hax doesn't matter in the end. I can have every hax in the book. If my record is 0 - 50 (including losses to high, mid, and low tiers) and all of them end up in me getting stomped, I'm a jobber.

This logic would've been good if The Demon had a negative record. Hax does in fact, matter. Ultimate Warrior has hax, and he's one of the strongest in the verse. Same applies to people like The Fiend, The Demon, Undertaker, and Kane.

 

[DivineAura44]

Taker was definitely not Supernatural tier anymore against Roman. He could barely do his trademark sit up.

This is more of a purely physical thing. That doesn't matter in verse.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The problem I see here is we aren't taking into consideration the fact that wrestlers can evolve and get better and then worse with time, depending on the era. Something that would necessitate keys.

I think we went over this a long time ago about keys.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Having keys for the verse is extremely unnecessary. It would just fill up some unneeded space for the profiles.

Almost every wrestler will have the exact same abilities as the previous key. It's unnecessary.

 

[DivineAura44]

If you win a match due to something that was literally out of your control, how does it not make it less impressive? Roman was going to lose before the ropes just magically broke.

That's why I think just adding and removing people from Supernatural Tier shouldn't be done so casually. If one person being moved up to Supernatural Tier invalidates the tier, then wtf are we doing?


This logic would've been good if The Demon had a negative record. Hax does in fact, matter. Ultimate Warrior has hax, and he's one of the strongest in the verse. Same applies to people like The Fiend, The Demon, Undertaker, and Kane.

I just explained why it doesn't. By your logic we should remove every match with luck in it and ignore records. I'm not doing it casually. I'm stating a problem with the scaling and being consistent off of the logic previously presented.



This is doesn't attack my argument. I'm explaining why hax doesn't matter. You are saying X character has it so it must.

 

[DivineAura44]

Having keys for the verse is extremely unnecessary. It would just fill up some unneeded space for the profiles.

Almost every wrestler will have the exact same abilities as the previous key. It's unnecessary.

Same abilities as before

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Supernatural Tier should be considered the rare exception for the verse.

Only a few characters should even be considered for this tier. Casually just removing and adding characters to the tier just invalidates it, like Divine said.

Two characters that are for sure locked in Supernatural Tier are The Fiend and Ultimate Warrior. Both have crazy no selling feats, and have very solid records (lets ignore the loss The Fiend suffered to Goldberg).

I just explained why it doesn't. By your logic we should remove every match with luck in it and ignore records. I'm not doing it casually. I'm stating a problem with the scaling and being consistent off of the logic previously presented.

Bro, just because it's in the record books, doesn't make it "impressive." There's context behind virtually every victory a wrestler has. Ignoring the context behind that win (especially the Roman vs The Demon match) doesn't make sense.

"Santino Marella beat The Undertaker." Okay. It's officially in the record books. But what's the context behind said victory? If Santino beat him clean, then all is good. But if there were shenanigans behind the win, then the win does technically count, but it's not earned or legitimate.

Same abilities as before

That's just further proving my point of how unnecessary it is to have keys.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is more of a purely physical thing. That doesn't matter in verse.

I disagree. It does paint us a clear picture of the wrestler's standing during the era. And considering how Roman reacted to it, to me it's clearly being acknowledged.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I disagree. It does paint us a clear picture of the wrestler's standing during the era. And considering how Roman reacted to it, to me it's clearly being acknowledged.

Didn't Undertaker take 5 Spears during that match? I think that was a physical thing.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Didn't Undertaker take 5 Spears during that match? I think that was a physical thing.

Any other era and he wouldn't have even took them. That's the thing. Taker by that time is not the Taker he used to be. That's why at the time he wouldn't be considered a Supernatural tier anymore.

 

[DivineAura44]

Bro, just because it's in the record books, doesn't make it "impressive." There's context behind virtually every victory a wrestler has. Ignoring the context behind that win (especially the Roman vs The Demon match) doesn't make sense.

"Santino Marella beat The Undertaker." Okay. It's officially in the record books. But what's the context behind said victory? If Santino beat him clean, then all is good. But if there were shenanigans behind the win, then the win does technically count, but it's not earned or legitimate.


That's just further proving my point of how unnecessary it is to have keys.

Just about every match in the WWE (except for squash matches) has some element of luck. Why are you ignoring this fact?

How? I'm explaining an example of what you could say in that case.

 

[DivineAura44]

Any other era and he wouldn't have even took them. That's the thing. Taker by that time is not the Taker he used to be. That's why at the time he wouldn't be considered a Supernatural tier anymore.

Say he is not in his prime. The way you make in it sound is physical when you probably mean winning wise.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Any other era and he wouldn't have even took them. That's the thing.

Ehh. I don't recall Undertaker ever surviving 5 finishers in a matchup.

Taker by that time is not the Taker he used to be. That's why at the time he wouldn't be considered a Supernatural tier anymore.

KInda true, but I'm still opposed to making keys that are completely unnecessary and do next to nothing for the verse.

 

[DivineAura44]

Ehh. I don't recall Undertaker ever surviving 5 finishers in a matchup.


KInda true, but I'm still opposed to making keys that are completely unnecessary and do next to nothing for the verse.

I don't think he's ever died from taking 5 tho so...

I see why you feel that why but it's pretty weird when the characters are clearly not the same.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Say he is not in his prime. The way you make in it sound is physical when you probably mean winning wise.

To me it's both, but I'm clearly outvoted on that

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Honestly just feel like putting The Fiend and UW in Supernatural Tier and moving every other Supernatural Tier down to God Tier.

 

[DivineAura44]

To me it's both, but I'm clearly outvoted on that

The way you perform physically doesn't affect your tier in the verse. It's about how good you are. How many wins you get.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I see why you feel that why but it's pretty weird when the characters are clearly not the same.

Like, what does using the term "Same as before" do? Literally nothing. It's unnecessary.

The way you perform physically doesn't affect your tier in the verse. It's about how good you are. How many wins you get.

Basically this.

We're ranking these guys based on their entire careers. Not certain points in their career where they might've been weaker/stronger than before. That's why I think using keys is unnecessary.