"A multiverse of adventures" A Sonic the Hedgehog Cosmology page creation + upgrade CRT: part 1 "The Cosmology"

[Omegabronic]

Hello all, for a while the Sonic cosmology was very simple and straight forward to understand, but as time went on more and more upgrades, additions and extra information about the cosmology was accepted here, it is kind of a mess to look through all kind of profiles to have understand what is accepted......so i decided to follow the steps of the GoW and Ben 10 supporters, meaning:

Cosmology page creation​

here is the sandbox of it, it's purpose not only to put all relevant aspects of the cosmology for scaling purposes, but to also document all small and big cosmology aspects of the franchise, basically serving as a good overview of everything this franchise has shown cosmology-wise in these past 33 years, not in full detail for the extremely length ones, only a brief summary to get the point across, for further details the explanation blogs for the more complicated aspects are linked, some additions are given as well tho

Universe upgrade​

Thanks to Sonic Prime, we have an even better indication that the Sonic universe is far bigger than one might initially see

2-C​

In Sonic Prime we are introduced to the Shatterverse, a varied of individual Universes that were created when the Paradox Prism destroyed the Prime World, with its lesser pieces becoming the Shatterverse, each world in there having their own universe and time, it is constantly said that these Shatterspaces only came to from the Prime World being shattered and destroyed, aka, being the smaller pieces of the whole that is the Prime Universe with the term "splinter" being used to describe the event, with the word directly meaning to break something bigger into smaller pieces, additionally the Shatterverse is said to not be part of the outer multiverse and the Prime World is not said to have been altered, it is said to have ceased to exist being literally "broken", therefore the totality of it would scale to the base of the prime world, with this also being supported by the other dimensions that we have indications are also inside of it, like the Modern Cyberspaces

Maybe Infinite Universe.....?​

So, this one i am not completely sure about, the space between the Shatterspaces is called "The Void", which is said to have an "Eternity of darkness" which.......i am not sure if it means that it is infinite or not, since eternity doesn't mean infinite spatially.....but the way it is used here is clearly in mention of it spatially, maybe in the sense of "Darkness that goes on forever" which.......i am not sure if it is enough for it to be infinite or not, will let the staff decide on this one, for support, we also have the parallel reality of the Arabian Nights, which also contains infinite spaces within it for more support with the modern cyberspaces, which take/are made of information from the world itself, also being stated infinite, for even more support

White Space nonexistensiness(is that a real word?)​

Basically, White Space is non existent, everyone knows that, the page is detailing how much that extents given the Time Eater's erasure range of how much it affected, given all the elements in the Sonic Cosmology, these would be the aspects and nature it and the chars erased by it would receive, for a more in detail explanation, check this blog, this is the summary of it, with some added aspects(1 and 3) that will be explained as well:

Non Existent Physiology (Nature type 2(due to it being less existent than an already non existent timeline in Crisis City and Stardust Speedway Bad Future); Aspects type 1 "Spiritual" (Due to it erasing stuff like the Ancient Cyberspace that stores the souls(which is what happens when Sonic and co "free" the Koko, their souls are uploaded to Cyberspace as said by Sage) of the Ancients and the Night Palace of the Arabian Nights that is connected with the "Spiritual World" of the Astral Plane, this is more of a support point mind you) type 2 and 3 "Conceptual" & "Mental Nonexistence" (Due to it erasing such conceptual places as Maginaryworld and its several dreams, which are currently accepted as concepts, while some dreams are also accepted as part of the minds of the one who dream them and Ancient Cyberspace which also holds the ancients' memories, this is also a support point for the first mind you) type 4 "Informational" (Due to the Cyberspaces which contain such nature as accepted in previous threads) & type 5 "Other: Space-Time, History, Text and Plot" (Due to the Time Eater erasing all of history and space time through all of the multiverse, thus also including places such as the Storybook Worlds, which are fundamentally made of Texts and Manuscripts that are also its story and plotlines)

1-C Upgrade for Maginaryworld and Hypertime, in that order​

a recent thread upgraded some realms to Low 1-C while also making them be considered "dreams", as such some upgrades result from it

from the FAQ:

"It is, however, possible to at least achieve above the baseline 2-A power by upscaling from other characters who've performed 2-A feats or of the feats themselves, rather than by affecting 2-A structures containing other 2-A structures. However, if "bigger" is indicated to mean a size difference that makes the structure quantitative superior to a 2-A structure the structure qualifies for Low 1-C unless the fiction specifies otherwise."

"For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc."

Magynaryworld's 4 dimension space seems to follow the above as it sees all the dreams as flat images projections from its perspective, which would include the recently accepted Low 1-C dreams of Cyberspace and the Egg Field, with it also being so big as to contain all the numerous variations of these that would exist due to the multiverse and the inhabitants that these dreams are from(The Ancients and Dr. Eggman) the number as such being possibly infinite, so an possible infinity of 5D/Low 1-C realms are reduced to literaly flat images in comparison to the infinity of the 4 dimension space, making them all infinitesimal in comparison, this alone would be pretty good evidence, but there is more that supports this proposal

again from the FAQ:

"To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for qualitative superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being bigger in size than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."

in this case such a thing happens with Maginaryworld's 4th dimension space, but for Low 1-C realms instead of Low 2-C ones, as such it would naturally make the 4th dimension space a 6th dimensional axis, and since we already accept it as infinite, it would qualify as "non-insignificant" in size, thus making it up into Low 1-C/6-D. the 6-D hypertime becomes 7-D by extension, as it would supersede any cosmological structure (Maginaryworld included)
edit: forget the above, don't want to argue for it anymore

Special Thanks​

several people helped with this project, which was in the works for several months now, those being @Fireld @Mephistus @ShakeResounding @GlaceonGamez471 @Eseseso @Maverick_Zero_X , a big thanks to them

this discussion would cover ONLY the cosmology, the after effects and upgrades following it will be contained in a follow up thread to this, so do not, and i repeat DO NOT derail this thread with any scaling talk or "will X thing get X hax from this?" as this is to be discussed afterwards in the follow up thread

with all out of the way....discuss

Agree: @LordGriffin1000 (Agree's with 2-C, neutral on everything else)

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Eseseso]

...Yes.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Ok but does everyone scale to i-/shot

Jokes aside, this looks good

 

[AStrangeverse]

Neat

 

[Jinsye]

Semantics diff but don't use the term qualitative superiority for this anymore, that's generally reserved for 1-A jumps.

Regardless, is that really it? I most certainly don't think this is enough for a dimensional jump. "Projections on a screen" doesn't scream Low 1-C when we hardly know the nature of these projections at least with the given context. Are they really literally infinitesimal? Is there literally any other information we get on this besides the one statement?

 

[Omegabronic]

Semantics diff but don't use the term qualitative superiority for this anymore, that's generally reserved for 1-A jumps.

oh, right

Regardless, is that really it? I most certainly don't think this is enough for a dimensional jump.

that part is a support point btw, the main one is the same argument that made it accepted as 5D before, a space of such dimensionality with a confirmed, non insignificant size

"Projections on a screen" doesn't scream Low 1-C when we hardly know the nature of these projections at least with the given context.

by occam's razor we would assume the simpler, straightforward answer, that being that they are, like anything projected on a screen, flat 2D, as that is how an image is projected on a screen

Are they really literally infinitesimal? Is there literally any other information we get on this besides the one statement?

trivializing them as 2D images would make them infinitesimal in comparison, but i mean, we also have the "Infinite" statement already accepted for 4DS, with it housing all the dreams, thus each dream is, individually, an infinitesimal part of the whole that is 4DS

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Universe upgrade​

Thanks to Sonic Prime, we have an even better indication that the Sonic universe is far bigger than one might initially see

2-C​

In Sonic Prime we are introduced to the Shatterverse, a varied of individual Universes that were created when the Paradox Prism destroyed the Prime World, with its lesser pieces becoming the Shatterverse, each world in there having their own universe and time, it is constantly said that these Shatterspaces only came to from the Prime World being shattered and destroyed, aka, being the smaller pieces of the whole that is the Prime Universe with the term "splinter" being used to describe the event, with the word directly meaning to break something bigger into smaller pieces, additionally the Shatterverse is said to not be part of the outer multiverse and the Prime World is not said to have been altered, it is said to have ceased to exist being literally "broken", therefore the totality of it would scale to the base of the prime world, with this also being supported by the other dimensions that we have indications are also inside of it, like the Modern Cyberspaces

Maybe Infinite Universe.....?​

So, this one i am not completely sure about, the space between the Shatterspaces is called "The Void", which is said to have an "Eternity of darkness" which.......i am not sure if it means that it is infinite or not, since eternity doesn't mean infinite spatially.....but the way it is used here is clearly in mention of it spatially, maybe in the sense of "Darkness that goes on forever" which.......i am not sure if it is enough for it to be infinite or not, will let the staff decide on this one, for support, we also have the parallel reality of the Arabian Nights, which also contains infinite spaces within it for more support

Easily agree with 2-C, and I'm very tempted to agree with the infinite sized universe as well. Mostly because the modern cyberspaces must logically be inside the main universe. Arguing that via Black Doom teleporting in it when it's established that a Chaos Emerald is required for inter-dimensional travel is genius. This obviously carries many power-scalling implications (which I've been thinking about for a long time) that I would love to discuss with you once this is over. Quick question first for anyone who might know: Does a dimension being "parrallel" to another automatically grant both the exact same size and scope? That seems to be how we do things, but I want to be sure before I fully agree with infinite universes.

1-C Upgrade for Maginaryworld and Hypertime, in that order​

a recent thread upgraded some realms to Low 1-C while also making them be considered "dreams", as such some upgrades result from it

from the FAQ:

"It is, however, possible to at least achieve above the baseline 2-A power by upscaling from other characters who've performed 2-A feats or of the feats themselves, rather than by affecting 2-A structures containing other 2-A structures. However, if "bigger" is indicated to mean a size difference that makes the structure qualitatively superior to a 2-A structure the structure qualifies for Low 1-C unless the fiction specifies otherwise."

"For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc."

Magynaryworld's 4 dimension space seems to follow the above as it sees all the dreams as flat images projections from its perspective, which would include the recently accepted Low 1-C dreams of Cyberspace and the Egg Field, with it also being so big as to contain all the numerous variations of these that would exist due to the multiverse and the inhabitants that these dreams are from(The Ancients and Dr. Eggman) the number as such being possibly infinite, so an possible infinity of 5D/Low 1-C realms are reduced to literaly flat images in comparison to the infinity of the 4 dimension space, making them all infinitesimal in comparison, this alone would be pretty good evidence, but there is more that supports this proposal

again from the FAQ:

"To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for qualitative superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being bigger in size than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."

in this case such a thing happens with Maginaryworld's 4th dimension space, but for Low 1-C realms instead of Low 2-C ones, as such it would naturally make the 4th dimension space a 6th dimensional axis, and since we already accept it as infinite, it would qualify as "non-insignificant" in size, thus making it up into Low 1-C/6-D. the 6-D hypertime becomes 7-D by extension, as it would supersede any cosmological structure (Maginaryworld included)

My biggest issue is here:

"(...)so an possible infinity of 5D/Low 1-C realms are reduced to literaly flat images in comparison to the infinity of the 4 dimension space, making them all infinitesimal in comparison"

Nothing indicates that the infinite size of the 4D space is relative to the scope of all the flat dream worlds inside it. It could/would already be infinite by virtue of containing countless/infinite dream worlds in the first place, which is what the statement that describes it as infinite was most likely referring to.

This, by itself, definitely isn't enough to make me disagree with this upgrade. However, I can tell you from experience that it isn't gonna fly here. I'm not gonna explain why in here since that would most likely cause a derail, but unless the tiering system revision changed people's perspectives, this upgrade is dead in the water, regardless or whether I agree with it or not.

I agree with the rest, including the stuff that would go on White Space's profile.

 

[Omegabronic]

Easily agree with 2-C, and I'm very tempted to agree with the infinite sized universe as well. Mostly because the modern cyberspaces must logically be inside the main universe. Arguing that via Black Doom teleporting in it when it's established that a Chaos Emerald is required for inter-dimensional travel is genius.

This obviously carries many power-scalling implications (which I've been thinking about for a long time) that I would love to discuss with you once this is over

i will happily await for that time to come

Quick question first for anyone who might know: Does a dimension being "parrallel" to another automatically grant both the exact same size and scope? That seems to be how we do things, but I want to be sure before I fully agree with infinite universes.

iirc, yes

• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

but i don't remember if that is only for Low 2-C or for other aspects........huh, will wait for more input on this

My biggest issue is here:

Nothing indicates that the infinite size of the 4D space is relative to the scope of all the flat dream worlds inside it. It could/would already be infinite by virtue of containing countless/infinite dream worlds in the first place, which is what the statement that describes it as infinite was most likely referring to.

This, by itself, definitely isn't enough to make me disagree with this upgrade. However, I can tell you from experience that it isn't gonna fly here. I'm not gonna explain why in here since that would most likely cause a derail, but unless the tiering system revision changed people's perspectives, this upgrade is dead in the water, regardless or whether I agree with it or not.

well, it being infinite is to prove that it is not of insignificant size, thus since it would be 6D by default of being the space between 5D structures as i detailed here:

again from the FAQ:

"To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for qualitative superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being bigger in size than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."

in this case such a thing happens with Maginaryworld's 4th dimension space, but for Low 1-C realms instead of Low 2-C ones, as such it would naturally make the 4th dimension space a 6th dimensional axis, and since we already accept it as infinite, it would qualify as "non-insignificant" in size, thus making it up into Low 1-C/6-D. the 6-D hypertime becomes 7-D by extension, as it would supersede any cosmological structure (Maginaryworld included)

we already accept it as Low 1-C/5D due to that logic, so in this case, the same would follow since it is the same logic

the "flat/2D images" work even without the infinite statement, it is more or less a strong support point for the latter than anything else, altho i think either could work by themselves

I agree with the rest, including the stuff that would go on White Space's profile.

thank you for your participation

 

[Sparkive]

About the Sonic Runners Universe, we haven't finished discussing it yet (because no one cares about Runner)
As an aside, although I like the theory of a separate universe, I have to doubt the fact that it is like this only because Runner is inconsistent with the main games, or that it is not canon in one direction (all the logic of another dimension could easily be only canon for Runners, and for the main games it does not exist)
Also, if you consider it canon, you forgot that Runners has a crossover with Puyo Puyo, which has its own universe according to its own event


I also have doubts about Nightmare zone, the level is a Zone DLC from Sonic Lost World, which also includes the Zelda level and the Yoshi Wolly world level,
Surely we should count it as canon? That level is at the same level as Sonic in Hyrule or in a world of wool, the only difference is that being from Sega itself, the dlc could appear in the PC version as part of the base game (while the other 2 obviously stayed on the Wii U... until the ESHOP closed)

It's all I can half doubt, to be fair, whether they stay or go does not basically affect cosmology at all.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

About the Sonic Runners Universe, we haven't finished discussing it yet (because no one cares about Runner)
As an aside, although I like the theory of a separate universe, I have to doubt the fact that it is like this only because Runner is inconsistent with the main games, or that it is not canon in one direction (all the logic of another dimension could easily be only canon for Runners, and for the main games it does not exist)
Also, if you consider it canon, you forgot that Runners has a crossover with Puyo Puyo, which has its own universe according to its own event


I also have doubts about Nightmare zone, the level is a Zone DLC from Sonic Lost World, which also includes the Zelda level and the Yoshi Wolly world level,
Surely we should count it as canon? That level is at the same level as Sonic in Hyrule or in a world of wool, the only difference is that being from Sega itself, the dlc could appear in the PC version as part of the base game (while the other 2 obviously stayed on the Wii U... until the ESHOP closed)

It's all I can half doubt, to be fair, whether they stay or go does not basically affect cosmology at all.

Nights Into Dreams and Sonic are already accepted as canon to each other on this site. Lost World is far from the only reason why.

 

[Sparkive]

Nights Into Dreams and Sonic are already accepted as canon to each other on this site. Lost World is far from the only reason why.

And that's why I'm asking exclusively about your Nightmare Zone and not about everything else in Nights Into Dreams.
(and that's why I said that whether this exists or not affects basically nothing)

 

[Theuser789]

Neutral on the universe upgrade to 2-C.

Neutral, leaning to agree with infinite universe.

Agree with White Space additions.

Neutral, leaning to disagree about dimensional upgrade.

 

[Hasty12345]

Shatterverse being 2-C looks good, but could you explain more on how it scales to the main universe?

 

[Alexander]

agree

 

[JJSliderman]

Shatterverse being 2-C looks good, but could you explain more on how it scales to the main universe?

The Shatterverse is just the main universe, broken into pieces. Nothing about the main universe was expanded in any way to accommodate these new spaces.

 

[FaceOff81]

I agree with the entire Cosmology Tiering Thread other than The Shatterverse tiering. That was originally Sonic's dimension broken up into multiple parallel dimensions as opposed to separate universes.

 

[Omegabronic]

I agree with the entire Cosmology Tiering Thread other than The Shatterverse tiering. That was originally Sonic's dimension broken up into multiple parallel dimensions as opposed to separate universes.

they are said to be universes, with their own separated Time Flows, i would say that out of all things, Shatterverse's tiering is the most straightfoward

 

[Peptocoptr27]

they are said to be universes, with their own separated Time Flows, i would say that out of all things, Shatterverse's tiering is the most straightfoward

Deadass.

And that's why I'm asking exclusively about your Nightmare Zone and not about everything else in Nights Into Dreams.
(and that's why I said that whether this exists or not affects basically nothing)

So then the entire Nights cosmology should have been added to the blog instead of this? Agreed

 

[XxZetsuxX]

So, Does this mean Super form will be 1-C (7D?)

I'm not very good with this type of stuff ;-;

 

[Omegabronic]

So, Does this mean Super form will be 1-C (7D?)

I'm not very good with this type of stuff ;-;

any and all scalling manners will be dealt with in the sequel thread come on guys, i even wrotte that in the OP

 

[JJSliderman]

I remember I tried arguing the “bigger than infinity” angle for Cyberspace, and it was rejected because the infinitesimal angle for the smaller spaces wasn’t explicit enough. So idk if the 6-D stuff for Maginaryworld is gonna pass, rest I’m neutral to fine on (although I doubt the infinite Void evidence will pass eirher)

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I don't have much to say about 1-C stuff or White Space at the moment but I can agree with a Cosmology page since Sonic has a large enough reality that can use an explanation. Having seen clips of Sonic Prime, I think 2-C is fine but wasn't the prism fixed and became whole again? I don't know the entire story which is why I'm asking. Neutral on infinite size at the moment.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Having seen clips of Sonic Prime, I think 2-C is fine but wasn't the prism fixed and became whole again?

The prism did become whole again, and many believe the main universe returned to normal along with it (the show's ending isn't clear in that regard). Although I personally dosagree with that interpretation, it ultimately doesn't matter in any way to the overall scope of the prime universe in the cosmology. The fact that there is even one point in time when the universe is splintered in such a way that it can contain 6 universes with thier own time flow is already inherent proof that the prime timeline as a whole always was, and always will be that large. It's 2-C regardless of its current state.

By the way, can you answer this question:

Quick question first for anyone who might know: Does a dimension being "parrallel" to another automatically grant both the exact same size and scope? That seems to be how we do things, but I want to be sure before I fully agree with infinite universes.

 

[Theuser789]

I don't have much to say about 1-C stuff or White Space at the moment but I can agree with a Cosmology page since Sonic has a large enough reality that can use an explanation. Having seen clips of Sonic Prime, I think 2-C is fine but wasn't the prism fixed and became whole again? I don't know the entire story which is why I'm asking. Neutral on infinite size at the moment.

The other universes still exist at the end of the show.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

By the way, can you answer this question:

By default, no. You'd either need statements that said dimensions are similar in some capacity, like if it was simply an alternative universe then it's likely their the same size.

The other universes still exist at the end of the show.

Alright then.

 

[Omegabronic]

Having seen clips of Sonic Prime, I think 2-C is fine but wasn't the prism fixed and became whole again? I don't know the entire story which is why I'm asking.

Thing is, the Shatterverse/all the worlds of Prime were created because of the Prime Reality being "broken" and "splintered", aka it is nothing more than the Prime World broken into smaller parts, so independently of the world being fixed in the end, the Prime World would always be that big due to it beinf broken into smaller parts being what created the shatterverse to begin with

Modern Cyberspaces also support this, they are other dimensions, said to be infinite in size, that Black Doom can access with CC without any Emeralds, when it is stablished that at least 1 emeralds is needed to actually go to other parallel universes in verse

 

[CloverDragon03]

2-C for the universe makes sense to me. Neutral on infinite size from the void statement, I feel it could go either way. Iffy on 1-C, I did notice a concern that I have come to agree with, that being how simple projections like this might not be enough for a higher dimension. Xenoblade had a case like this recently (though it was for R>F rather than a higher dimension, but I believe the same principle applies)

 

[Peptocoptr27]

By default, no. You'd either need statements that said dimensions are similar in some capacity, like if it was simply an alternative universe then it's likely their the same size.


Alright then.

Then I guess the arabian nights remain Low 2-C and can't be used as evidence for an infinite sized universe.

Still, after giving it more thought, I agree with the main universe being infinite in size. It can contain at least 6 Low 2-C structures (Nine speculated there could be even more shatterspaces out there), countless planets and stars, an "eternity of darkness" and most importantly, cyberspaces with an infinite void. That's good enough for me.

You can count me in for full agreement

 

[Omegabronic]

2-C for the universe makes sense to me. Iffy on 1-C, I did notice a concern that I have come to agree with, that being how simple projections like this might not be enough for a higher dimension. Xenoblade had a case like this recently (though it was for R>F rather than a higher dimension, but I believe the same principle applies)

how about the other argument? about the non insignificant size of the 6th Axis? this part:

again from the FAQ:

"To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for qualitative superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being bigger in size than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."

in this case such a thing happens with Maginaryworld's 4th dimension space, but for Low 1-C realms instead of Low 2-C ones, as such it would naturally make the 4th dimension space a 6th dimensional axis, and since we already accept it as infinite, it would qualify as "non-insignificant" in size, thus making it up into Low 1-C/6-D. the 6-D hypertime becomes 7-D by extension, as it would supersede any cosmological structure (Maginaryworld included)

it is part of why we accept it as 5D currently btw

 

[ShakeResounding]

Agree with the 2-C universe.

I did notice a concern that I have come to agree with, that being how simple projections like this might not be enough for a higher dimension.

Quick thing, isn't this a different case primarily due to them being referred to as flat? Asking mainly because that seems like enough of a quantitative difference to warrant a jump, but I'm not expert.

That being said. At worst, if a dimensional difference isn't valid, the verse remains 6-D due to an "At least 5-D" Maginaryworld + Hypertime.

 

[CloverDragon03]

how about the other argument? about the non insignificant size of the 6th Axis? this part:

it is part of why we accept it as 5D currently btw

That's not really how it works. It's basically saying that a multiversal structure (even a 2-B or 2-A one) has a degree of 5-D space, but it's insignificant and thus doesn't suddenly make the 2-B/2-A structure Low 1-C. Maginaryworld follows that, but in a higher-dimensional sense (it contains an insignificant 6-D space within it)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Agree with the 2-C universe.

Quick thing, isn't this a different case primarily due to them being referred to as flat? Asking mainly because that seems like enough of a quantitative difference to warrant a jump, but I'm not expert.

That being said. At worst, if a dimensional difference isn't valid, the verse remains 6-D due to an "At least 5-D" Maginaryworld + Hypertime.

Going from the scans presented, I don't see where it states they're seen as flat. Just that they're projected on screens, which doesn't automatically make for a higher dimension.

And yeah ik it'd still be 6-D, that's not in contention. I'm just iffy on 7-D

 

[ShakeResounding]

Going from the scans presented, I don't see where it states they're seen as flat.

Pretty sure it's in one of my scans, iirc one of the Core Four comment on them looking flat before one of them states they look like projections. I'll double-check for you when I get a chance, I could just be misremembering since I haven't delved into my scans for Shuffle in a while.

And yeah I get it, I'm neutral on 7-D atm.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Modern Cyberspaces also support this, they are other dimensions, said to be infinite in size, that Black Doom can access with CC without any Emeralds, when it is stablished that at least 1 emeralds is needed to actually go to other parallel universes in verse

Are you talking about that level from Shadow ‘05 or the thing from Frontiers? If the latter then when did that happen?

Btw I agree with 2-C and infinite size universe, and I think the White Space additions look good too. Neutral on the higher dimension stuff since it’s above (heh) my area of expertise.

 

[Omegabronic]

That's not really how it works. It's basically saying that a multiversal structure (even a 2-B or 2-A one) has a degree of 5-D space, but it's insignificant and thus doesn't suddenly make the 2-B/2-A structure Low 1-C. Maginaryworld follows that, but in a higher-dimensional sense (it contains an insignificant 6-D space within it)

the said space is the 4DS in the case of MW, since that is what we see, and that space is confirmed to be infinite, thus being of non insignificant size

Going from the scans presented, I don't see where it states they're seen as flat. Just that they're projected on screens, which doesn't automatically make for a higher dimension.

going by occam's razor, a screen image would be flat, yes, that is how images are displayed on screens after all, and i mean, visually they also look flat when the statement is made

 

[Omegabronic]

Are you talking about that level from Shadow ‘05 or the thing from Frontiers? If the latter then when did that happen?

Shadow 05, the "Modern Cyberspace" section in the sandbox of the OP should explain that enough in case of more doubt

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Shadow 05, the "Modern Cyberspace" section in the sandbox of the OP should explain that enough in case of more doubt

Ah I got it, I thought by “modern cyberspace” you might’ve meant in a meta sense and not an in-universe sense.

 

[CloverDragon03]

the said space is the 4DS in the case of MW, since that is what we see, and that space is confirmed to be infinite, thus being of non insignificant size

Not how this works, this just kinda straight up goes against standards. Based on this logic, 2-A as a tier wouldn't even exist since it's infinite and has that insignificant 5-D space

going by occam's razor, a screen image would be flat, yes, that is how images are displayed on screens after all, and i mean, visually they also look flat when the statement is made

Occam's Razor is not an actual means of debating, it's just a heuristic. Projections can be used for things like surveillance, for instance. It doesn't have to indicate a higher dimension

 

[Hasty12345]

The Shatterverse is just the main universe, broken into pieces. Nothing about the main universe was expanded in any way to accommodate these new spaces.

Ok, seems straightforward enough

I agree with the whole crt

 

[Omegabronic]

Not how this works, this just kinda straight up goes against standards. Based on this logic, 2-A as a tier wouldn't even exist since it's infinite and has that insignificant 5-D space

in this case, the 5D space wouldn't be infinite, i am not even sure why you would assume it would be, the gap is not assumed to be of any size regardless of how many timelines it is separating, that is what is said in the standards,
"Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."
in this case we have a stated size, making it non insignificant

Occam's Razor is not an actual means of debating, it's just a heuristic. Projections can be used for things like surveillance, for instance. It doesn't have to indicate a higher dimension

i mean, when it perceives the other things as 2D images, then it would, it is trivializing infinite 5D structures as finite (as flat 2D doesn't have any width whatsoever)