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A Lion vs A Vampire

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The point is that "surviving even after having no mystery" is not a feat of "insance conceptual resistance". He stuck around because he had strong will power. Same with after he was hit by the spear. That's it. It isn't something that translates to "this guy had higher conceptual resistances than people who can create, alter and destroy various concepts on a solar system scale". It isn't a comparable feat to the likes of what Saver, Amateratsu can do, both of which have superior authority to BB, who when using her authority to its maximum capacity can destroy, rewrite and create all the concepts of the entire planet.

Arc tanks the longinus and proceeds to reactive evolve from it.

I'm ignoring the 'kill merc" bit, becuase that would make the spear 1-A
 
ik i'm just stating something to give some insight

Even with resistence how can she tank it per say...cause it erases her history it well...just ends more like a law to kill things

I agree let's ignore 1-A too iffy for my tastes
 
Pretty sure Machina doesn't erase history, he just ends it if it has a history. And Arceuid got back up after being hit by the Black Barrel, as well as likely being resistant to things like Gae Bolg (which does damage = target health + spear damage, so it always does enough damage to kill them).
 
It's a conceptual weapon that imposes mortality on immortal beings (i.e. imposes an end on the endless) then kills them disregarding how strong they are by enacting that mortality and destroying them as their magical essence self-destructs. Or something along those lines. Arceuid took a hit then got back up moments later completely fine.

It's also called Longinus so that must count for something ovo
 
>Conceptual manipulation of Solar System

>Is superior to a guy who IS a concept of every single definition of Darkness from all universes that git reseted by Merc.

Also, Machina's Briah would wipe this concept from reality/the universe.
 
A better argument there. However, all concepts of the solar system would include all concepts/definitions of "darkness", as well as all concepts/definitions of everything else. There's a lot of concepts in the world. Enough to balance it out that "concept of darkness throughout the universe" he's got I would think.

And proof that universal resets did anything to "power up" his concept?
 
Monarch Laciel said:
The point is that "surviving even after having no mystery" is not a feat of "insance conceptual resistance". He stuck around because he had strong will power. Same with after he was hit by the spear. That's it. It isn't something that translates to "this guy had higher conceptual resistances than people who can create, alter and destroy various concepts on a solar system scale". It isn't a comparable feat to the likes of what Saver, Amateratsu can do, both of which have superior authority to BB, who when using her authority to its maximum capacity can destroy, rewrite and create all the concepts of the entire planet.
Arc tanks the longinus and proceeds to reactive evolve from it.

I'm ignoring the 'kill merc" bit, becuase that would make the spear 1-A
Click to expand...
Survive is a bit strong of a word. He simply postponed his death via sheer willpower. After having lost his connection to darkness and all the mystery within his body, he was nothing but a superhuman bloke. He died not long after a fist-fight with Wilhelm.

Had Machina hit him on the other hand, darkness would have ceased to exist as phenomena entirely. And as a result, the world would have collapsed since quite a few things are dependent on it. Hell, everything is dependent on one thing. Light and darkness, yadda yadda. You get the picture.
 
Had Arc survived something like that? Likely, things that wipe entire concepts from reality.
 
At full power like she is now, she lacks a concept/"time" of death. Even the Mystic Eyes of Death, which can destroy effectively anything including concepts by cutting through their origin of existence can't kill her.

https://imgur.com/a/5RXUY

Here we go:

Arcueid is able to overcome being sliced into 17 pieces by Tohno Shiki, a user of the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, and come back from said injury. This is no small feat, as killing someone with this ability is an attack on the very concept of existence itself, seeking to end it.

Under the light of the Full Moon, Tohno Shiki can barely see anything on her with his Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, period. Ryougi Shiki, the highest-tier user of the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception in Nasuverse, can see absolutely nothing on Archetype-Earth. "It's not that I can't see death on her... there is no death on her!".

I know they keep saying "death" but considering this "death" is including the death of abstract concepts by destroying their existence, I'm certain it counts.

So, I'm 90% sure she can take Machina's Briah. And then she'll reactive evolve and become even more resistant to it.

Seriously though, that moment when you are tearing through her wiki page trying to find conceptual resistances and then you are like "hey, what about that thing that is literally the first feat she has?"
 
It's Red Princess Arc, not Type:Gaia.

She recovered from her body being sliced by Shiki, not her soul, mind and the very concepts that keep her existing being wiped from the entire existence.
 
You should make it Archetype Earth, seeing as Red Princess is only 4-B with one attack, and she's well below Reinhard in everything else.

Archetype Earth has no lines of death - not even the MEoDP can kill her, and that thing one-shots abstract concepts easier than Machina can. The very fact that she recovered from having her lines of death sliced means she can recover from having the origin of her existence severed. And that was heavily weakened Arc, not full power arc.
 
To be fair, Machina's Briah can actually be considered more deadly. Unlike MEoDP, which is unable to put down Wallachia, who was a phenomenon akin to tornadoes. Because you can kill the tornado that is there, but not the phenomena itself. Tornadoes would still appear all over the world.

Machina punching Methuselah? Darkness would cease to exist. Aaand **** the world over as a result.
 
MEoDP destroys the thing conected to a concept.

MVS erases the thing and the concept from reality, causing an dominoe effect and leading to colapse the world.
 
It should be noted that Reinhard doesn't pull out the spear at the beginning.

However, the Longinuslanze is definitely a powerful enough Conceptual Weapon to kill Arcueid.

SchroKatze is correct in that the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can only kill singular instances from a concept rather than delete them from the universe.

In addition, Arcueid's Marble Phantasm cannot affect humans or their souls directly as they are not part of nature specifically.

However, Arcueid is note hopeless here.

Her Ultimate One trait will counter Niflheimr Fenriswolf, since it always grants her "Opponent's stats +1" in a fight.

In addition, as Archetype: Earth, she can control the Counter Force and Gaea's Reality Marble, the same energies that are used to power Enkidu's Enuma Elish which acted as a perfect counter to the concept-crushing abilities of Gilgamesh's Enuma Elish.

In addition, Archetype: Earth lacks a death and thus cannot be killed by the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.

Furthermore, she has access to Millennium Castle Brunested, which Arcueid originally used to seal herself and her own power.
 
I'm just going to point something out about the whole VMS > MEoDP

You're basing this on the fact that if Machina hit Methuselah, all darkness everywhere would be erased.

But that's because Methuselah was literally all darkness everywhere.

Machina couldn't kill all darkness everywhere just by hitting a shadow. But he could kill it by hitting the conceptual embodiment of all darkness everywhere.

Who's to say the MEoDP wouldn't have done the exact same thing if it was used against Meth?
 
Yeah, that is a fair point to make and that is how I figure it goes. But I think it is noteworthy still because while Methuselah was all darkness, killing him together with darkness is still pretty damn impressive. Because it was noted that it would not just end Methuselah, it would end the darkness itself. Which is a bit different from how Reinhard did it, seeing as the latter simply blew away all the mystery within his body. It didn't end the phenomenon itself, but it severed his connection to darkness and returned it to be a simply natural one rather than something divine/supernatural.

There is also another problem: Age. Methuselah is insanely old. And the longer one has existed, the longer one can endure against the MEoDP. Honestly, I am not even sure if she would see lines of death on him. Yes, I say she because Tohno Shiki from Tsukihime has nowhere near as good eyes as Shiki from Kara No Kyoukai does.

Lemme see if I can grab it:

"No matter how many times the material forms are obliterated, the reoccurring phenomenon will ensure his reappearance as a materialized rumor. Even the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can only kill a single manifestation, even after hitting a point of death. They cannot kill a pure phenomenon, but only single manifestations of them. Conceptual Weapons by themselves are unable to truly affect it in any manner, as Riesbyfe's Apocrypha is a simple substance that cannot interfere with it and even Sion's Barrel Replica can only destroy one part at a time."

Ripped straight from the Type-Moon wiki so not really sure if it is 100% correct but that seems to be one point against her doing that. :p

But I digress. This is not ODM VS MEODP. This is Reinhard VS Arcueid. And Nilfheimsr Fenriswolf VS her "stats are always higher than the opponent" would make it an endless speed increase. Hell, can she actually power up to such a degree even if the planet is backing her up?
 
Well... Both can boost themselves.

Reinhard with NF and DRS (Wilhelm's Briah would absorb Arc's stats and increase his own), but Rein has lots of soulhax, RW and 2 Conceptual OHK.
 
Changed to Archetype:Earth.

Rein has one thing that can null her powers: BFR to Gladsheimr, since her powers will not recognuze it as Earth.
 
Can he actually pull her in though? Doesn't it warp space so people can't get close unless he invites them?
 
well...rein is likely to pull his spear more than NF from what ik off actually (though i could be wrong)
 
He can forcibly pull people in. Like he did with Ren and the rest of the cast. And the 800,000 people that got soulfucked.
 
I don't mean she'd teleport out. I mean she teleport away when he tries to pull her in.

And its not that her powers don't work, it's that "much of her power is lost"
 
hmmm this is difficult i mean...so vampire chick can seal and make NF paradox to the limit...though counter force is good reinhard's spear tbf is more of a pinpoint attack so there is that...
 
Considering Arcueid, and not even full power Arc: Earth Arcueid, managed to quite casually pull out a portal to escape the Moon Cell back in Extra, what's stopping her from escaping his Briah if he tries to forcibly pull her in?
 
the full range of rein's briah though is well...was iirc disconnected from merc's law as a single singularity even then i want to ask how she resists his mind and soul hax from looking at shining spear
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Considering Arcueid, and not even full power Arc: Earth Arcueid, managed to quite casually pull out a portal to escape the Moon Cell back in Extra, what's stopping her from escaping his Briah if he tries to forcibly pull her in?
Click to expand...
Moon cell and Reinhard briah are different things, I don't think you can easily leave the castle like that considering that it's a singularity and exists outside the throne's grasp, such a feat would need some crazy 1-A dimensional traveling and I'm not even sure if that's a thing. It took Marie and a whole new Ren Briah to destabilise the castle and let them escape. In Rea's route Reinhard simply lets them go if iirc. But yeah this looks like a stomp to me, Reinhard throws his universe spear and what not. ÒÇÇ
 
She doesn't resist soul rip from her profile.

But yes, this should be closed
 
Also, Reinhard is going to be 4-A and thees the whole "Briah evolving to Atziluth" at his full power.
 
This is why we need Swatsika keys for Reinhard.

So it isn't just "becomes 1-A lol gg"

Alternatively we could just use his IkaBey key I guess
 
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