A few Undertale things

[Blahblah9755]

Since Frisk and Asriel have equal determination, and Frisk's power and abilities stem entirely from his determination, should Asriel have Regenerationn equal to Frisk's?

Also, since Chara stays with Frisk throughout all runs post no-mercy, shouldn't he have gained determination from max determination Frisk (in a post no-mercy true pacifist run), shouldn't Chara have 2A durability?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For the latter, no. Genocide route is technically non-canon, and Pacifist is, so Chara doesn't leech off of Pacifrisk canonically. For the former, likely, but at the same time, unlikely. Asriel doesn't demonstrate his powers the same way as the other three god tiers, and in a way, brute forces his way through everything. If Flowey has it, then Asriel has it, so if Flowey has that level of regen, then so should Asriel. Now that I think about it, if Flowey doesn't have it, then no in general, as Omega Flowey also had more determination than Frisk, and even Frisk/Chara and Chara.

 

[Blahblah9755]

But Chara's profile is entirely based on the non-canon aspects of the game isn't it? And that includes the aspect of the post-genocide true pacifist ending that shows that Chara still controls and leaches off of Frisk, which implies he was doing so even while Frisk was at max determination.

As for the Asriel part, Flowey doesn't have that level of regen, because he never achieved max-DETERMINATION like true pacifist Frisk and Asriel did. But Frisk's powers should always scale to characters equal to him in determination, as he's the only being who's powers come solely from DETERMINATION. Asriel never got a chance to demonstrate any regen, as Frisk never harmed them, but since they had DETERMINATION equal to max DT Frisk's they should posses the same DETERMINATION based powers as him.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Chara surviving everything is mostly because of being a conceptual entity. Nothing to hit or attack.

Also Genocide isn't non-canon. All routes are canon technically.

 

[Blahblah9755]

The purpose of the upgrade isn't because Chara survived all of the Asriel fight, but because they were constantly absorbing the DETERMINATION of Frisk, including when Frisk reached max-DT in a post-Genocide Asriel fight. And since Frisk's stats come entirely from their DT, and nothing else, Chara should have equal stats from the DT they absorbed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

>he

triggerered.

At best I see it as "Possibly" or "Potentially", as I really doubt Chara is at that level normally.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Also, we don't really know if Chara still absorbs or has control over Frisk during Asriel's fight, as they only did it when Frisk had lower level of DT.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I have no idea what you're talking about, totally didn't just edit that to be "they"…

And yeah, it wouldn't be normally, only after absorbing DT from post-genocide-true-pacifist Frisk. In other words, at their hypothetical (because post-genocide-true-pacifist isn't exactly a commonly played route) absolute peak.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Again, we have no clue if Chara had control over frisk during their fight. Or if they absorbed Determination. They only manifest after the ending.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Sorry, I hadn't seen your second post till after I replied. I guess that's true, that's too bad.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

>he
triggerered.

On a note actually relating to the topic, Chara probably did have that level of power, but it was not entirely their own. It only came from leeching off of both the Player and max Determination Frisk after the Player had given them their SOUL, and even then, they didn't show the ability to take control until after Asriel had given up, and Frisk's Determination was significantly lower, at that point. It's kind of like how technically, there is a point in the game in which all of the main cast are 2-A, but it's only because they're being empowered by Asriel. Chara's regular level of power is likely closer to what we have now, since Omega Flowey becoming defensively superior to Frisk when they fought Asriel wouldn't seem to make much sense, and would mess up scaling.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Well, Omega Flowey only scales to end of Genocide Chara, not post-Genocide Chara, doesn't he? But either way, I understand why we can't do it now.

But what do you think about Asriel having mid-Godly regen?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Idk about that either. I mean both Omega Flowey and Asriel are not creatures with Determination inside them, but more like monster constantly absorbing Determination. I just don't...feel like they have regen like Frisk, Chara or the Amalgamates do. Although Flowey has a kind of regen via SAVE & LOAD it's not exactly regen. But I'd like to hear what others have to say on it.

 

[Talonmask]

Flowey never demonstrates regenerative abilities, not even as Asriel for that matter, as when the story describes Asriel bursting into dust in the garden despite absorbing Chara's soul, he did not regenerate.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

That's not what he was refering to. More like that since they both have the same power source on the same level they should have the same abilities. Much like anyone with high enough DT can SAVE & LOAD.

 

[Talonmask]

While I guess it would make sense, I'm just not feeling it, Frisk was able to regenerate at Low-Godly levels even with a low amount of DT, Asriel was not able to demonstrate regenerative abilities even with Chara's soul, which logically should give him the same level of regen as Frisk because Chara was undoubtedly determined to destroy humanity.

However, I suppose it's a possibility, as Undyne with her own DT was able to demonstrate regenerative abilities.

I know I'm not helping much, but right now all I can give is a maybe?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Frisk has only really shown regen against Asriel. SAVE & LOAD not really being regen. Against Asriel, they come back from having their body and SOUL damaged to death (And as proven by Chara, one with high enough DT can exist even without a body or SOUL).

 

[Talonmask]

Alright, then I suppose this should be the case for Asriel as well, as he did have relatively the same level of DT as Frisk.

 

[Verivici]

How is Genocide non-canon?

The entire point of the game is that it is your choice whether to kill everybody for fun or befriend them, and you're not above the consequences of what will happen if you are tempted to take the former route.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

On second thought...I totally disagree with Mid-Godly regen. This would imply that Flowey and Asriel can both regenenerate their SOULs. But as proven, if either of them loses the SOULs they had, they lose their power as well. Low-Godly at best but not mid-godly.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Well this would only be for Asriel, not Flowey, as Frisk only showed mid-Godly regen at max determination, when he faced Asriel. Also, I think there's a big difference between being damaged to lose a part of you, and actively rejecting that same part of you, which is what Asriel did to depower himself.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but he depowered himself to give back the SOULs. If he had Mid-Godly Regen, pretty sure he could just regen himself some new SOULs so he could be with his parents again.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Those souls weren't necessarily a part of him and he was actively choosing to give them up, he didn't want them anymore, which would influence his regen. Also by that point he had also already given up on killing Frisk, so he may no longer have possessed the determination necessary to use that level of regen.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No but he clearly still had huge power left for a while after losing the SOULs. Even after giving up on killing Frisk he was strong enough to break the barrier. And again, he only released the SOULs so everyone could live. If he could still have that much power he would have kept it.

 

[Blahblah9755]

When Asriel broke the barrier he only needed the power equivalent of 7 human SOULs, not the level of determination he and Frisk had during the fight, so when he released those SOULs he no longer had the level of determination Frisk needed to come back from being erased.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but the power of 7 Human SOULs is the power that Max DT Frisk fought. Even then, he probably would have been determined to live, wouldn't he?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Frisk fought the power of 7 Human SOULs being used by someone incredibly determined to win, not just 7 Human SOULs. DT is based on the emotion, so when Asriel was no longer as determined to win, he would logically have less DT than when he was fighting.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

But he certainly would be determined to still live, wouldn't he? He still had some power left after giving up the SOULs. It all seems very sketchy that he would give up his normal life even if he had the ability to prevet it.