A few quick Mewtwo changes

[LordAizenSama]

The point being made was the Insta win point of the move that would mean they just win, even against chars who can deal with absolute zero (Rukia or someone of the like) but yeah. I was unfamiliar with the current game descriptions of Sheer Cold since I really only stick to Gen 3.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Aizen. I feel you about gen III. I'm running an Emerald Nuzlocke right now. Lost half my team to Flannery, and one more to one of Norman's trainers...

 

[LlamaGod1411]

Diamond & Pearl, X & Y, ORAS state that Sheer Cold's temperature is absolute Zero.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Just because Barrier specifically doesnt equal durability doesnt mean EVERY defense increasing move =/= durability. Plus, Wonder Room should work the exact same way as Trick Room does only with a different effect. It involves making a "mysterious space" the exact same way Trick Room is refered to. Plus incase you were confused Wonder Room doesnt increase def/special def for the user it switches those 2 stats between the user and the opponent.

Also, Yea im rewatching the episode now. Mewtwo isnt the only one with high intelligence of self made machinery. The pokemon named Malamar is the one who evolves from Inkay. Its the same Malamar from an eariler XY episode that already revealed its interest in taking over the world. Anyway, as stated in the pokedex and shown in the anime, Malamar are highly intelligent pokemon. In this specific episode they were capable of manipulating the most distinguished, intelligent scientists throughout the entire Kalos Region so that they can could create their weapon. Although it wasnt physically self made by the Malamar, they were supervising the scientists they were controlling to create their own weapon for their own use from the Malamar's own design, all based on reports throughout the region and this all comes from Professor Jenny's words (the same Jenny who was manipulated by the same malamar). The device they built was so highly advanced it was going to alter and warp space around the entire world to change the environment suited for them, planetary reality warping. The planet would look like a constant warped sphere. When they were all stopped, they then used the devices to time travel into the future, threatening them to all come back someday.

IF MALAMAR are capable of doing something on THIS level of magnitude, im pretty sure either he or Mewtwo can create TM/HM machines like childsplay. Same thing for Clefa/Clefairy

Finally, i THINK Fissure should count for something. Someone suggested to me that, based off its description, it should count as a BFR. But moves like Horn Drill and Guiliotine are definitely just game mechanics.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yes, I'm well aware that barrier doesn't mean every defense enhancing move is not dependent hence why I mentioned the move harden. Hence why I mentioned it being a case by case basis.

Nonetheless moves like cotton guard, Light Screen and Barrier indicate that assuming defense stat=durability is fallacious.

I was well aware of the abilities of wonder room, which again is dependent on game mechanics that would make several pokemon multi-universe level in durability, again making it fallacious.

Again, the assumptions. We are not editing the profiles on opinions. Point is they don't use TMs, they don't make TMs end of story and until they do, it is most certainly not going to be listed on their profiles.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Before the thread gets off topic, does anyone contest to me adding Safeguard's and Amensia's abilities to Mewtwo's profile? I know everything else has at least one contestor.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Yes. Do not add anything yet. Amnesia seems to work differently in the anime. And I haven't checked safeguard yet.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Yes, I'm well aware that barrier doesn't mean every defense enhancing move is not dependent hence why I mentioned the move harden. Hence why I mentioned it being a case by case basis.
Nonetheless moves like cotton guard, Light Screen and Barrier indicate that assuming defense stat=durability is fallacious.

I was well aware of the abilities of wonder room, which again is dependent on game mechanics that would make several pokemon multi-universe level in durability, again making it fallacious.

Again, the assumptions. We are not editing the profiles on opinions. Point is they don't use TMs, they don't make TMs end of story and until they do, it is most certainly not going to be listed on their profiles.

My bad on the first part

Actually i wouldnt say that. Think of it like this. If we view Wonder Room as a reality warping kind of hax then it wouldnt be fallacious because reality warping itself is a tier ignoring hax and unless you have resistance to equal or even better level reality warping, i dont see how the opponents durability wouldnt get swithced. Multi Universe level/Tier 2 in general would have that kind of resistance so it shouldnt be given to far far lower combatants via a hax the said tier 2 characters are already resistant and flat out immune to

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Again, if you have nothing concrete to your hypothesis, I'd suggest you drop it.

 

[LordAizenSama]

So Amnesia seems almost entirely useless on the profile according to what I see here

And Safeguard just acts like your usual Barrier.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Are their any further showings of Amnesia in the anime other than first season? Half of it was usually gag scenes over and over again

 

[LordAizenSama]

No. However i'd much sooner question how the heck giving yourself amnesia could increase your defense.

As for "gag scenes" Brock explicitly said it's supposed to work on your opponent and make them forget a move.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

Aizen has a good question in "how the heck giving yourself amnesia could increase your defense."


Baffling Professors since 1997

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Dragonmasters, I've literally spent hours explaining why this isn't the case.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^I understand that. I still think it can work yet i see why it cannot. I believe this topic should be dropped. Unless there are moves that transition well into vs battle mechanics like Me First or Psych Up.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

No. However i'd much sooner question how the heck giving yourself amnesia could increase your defense.

Actually what your describing and how Slowbro did it matches the game description of Amnesia. The move Amnesia removes/gets rid of the users concerns or negative thoughts that increase your special defense by a lot and that makes much better sense. I dont think the anime version is correct at all as this description makes Brocks statement kinda moot and, from what it looks in the anime, slowbro got actual amnesia which is totally different from the game version. His trainer even mentioned "oh now you remember how to use this move" which proves the anime amensia is too literal and =/= the game amenisa which makes far better sense.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Yeah.. i'm not supporting that. if you watched it you'd see that Brock said you're supposed to use it on your opponent. which as far as i'm concerned, makes way more sense then the game.

Do you not question how giving yourself amnesia increases your defenses?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^I think we should leave Amnesia be as it is very...odd. It makes no sense on how forgetting things raises your durability...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm with Aizen (even though I brought it up) for amnesia. It's off the table. Now the other things?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

^I think we should leave Amnesia be as it is very...odd. It makes no sense on how forgetting things raises your durability...

I think i can explain. the game description clearly states that by getting rid of negative thoughts or concerns increases your defense. For example, take the Ki manipulation for Z fighters. KI needs the user to have a calm mind, spirit and body in order to use KI in the proper way. If u have negative or concern thoughts that would distract you from using your capabilites at their peak/true potential, like not properly using KI. Its basically a form of concentrating your mind and body. Its almost like if someone is wildly raging mid battle, then they cant control themselves and their power would do them no good. So by getting rid of those said concerns/negative thoughts you'd cleary do better in battle right? IIRC their are characters in ficiton who have been limited by these kind of conditions and gotten their asses kicked during battle, but after they've discareded them they do much much better and turn the tables, sometimes easily.

If u need a better example then this, take moves like Focus Energy, Focus and Calm Mind for example:

Calm Mind- by focusing your mind it raises sp. Attk and sp.Def

Focus Energy- By focusing your power it raises the ratio of critical hits

Its basically just focusing/clearing your mind to make your capabilites better than before

But if this doesnt really explain it all to well at all and that the topic needs to be discarded, i'll drop it. Sorry for bringing it back up.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The only thing left to be considered is Psyche Up.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Psyche Up is confusing AF.

It's supposed to increase your stats by the amount your opponent gains through stat boosts (Swords Dance, Agility, Iron Defense, Amnesia and so on).

So if an opponent Transforms and gains a x10 increase on all their stats,

Mewtwo gets a x10 increase on all his stats too.

If it's Canon Mewtwo, he'd jump to 6-C and be Massively Hypersonic.

Psyche Up giving that much an increase in Mewtwo's stats seems NLF to me.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Couldnt Psyche Up just be classified as a Copy Ability? Kinda like Kirby's? Both also seem to be NLF and yet Kirby's works just fine.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Couldnt Psyche Up just be classified as a Copy Ability? Kinda like Kirby's? Both also seem to be NLF and yet Kirby's works just fine.

If Kirby were to copy Goku, would Kirby be automatically 3-B then? If not, then it's not NLF.

Psyche Up seems to be NLF as there is no indication of a limit for it which would be used to inflate and even wank Mewtwo's stats.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Couldnt Psyche Up just be classified as a Copy Ability? Kinda like Kirby's? Both also seem to be NLF and yet Kirby's works just fine.

If Kirby were to copy Goku, would Kirby be automatically 3-B then? If not, then it's not NLF.
Psyche Up seems to be NLF as there is no indication of a limit for it which would be used to inflate and even wank Mewtwo's stats.

Good Point but i think there might be a limit to it. Just because the move says it copies all stat changes doesnt mean that it continuously does it after just one time. What if the opponent boosts itself, Mewtwo copies it and does the same thing and then the opponent does it again? Mewtwo would have to use the entire technique again more than once in order to gain the new stat boost. Unless is their any proof that using Psych Up just one time will copy all stat changes from then on until the battle is over?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

I also thought of 2 more things:

1. Just because Psych Up lets u copy any stat change from the opponent doesnt mean u get to copy traits such as Experience or Control. Lets say Mewtwo was fighting Goku and it used Psych Up. It may gain the same increase in stats as Goku but it wouldnt mean Mewtwo would have the same fighting experience or control over energy/power as Goku does with his KI. So even with the benefit of the doubt, Goku would still have the advantage in terms of those 2 traits. Its almost like what happened with Captain Ginyu. He may have gained Gokus strength and abilities while in his body but he didnt gain Gokus Ki control, experience, etc.

2. Psych Up may seem like an NLF but actually it isnt. Just because Psych Up allows you to copy any change in stats doesnt mean you would neccesarily equal or become stronger then the opponent (unless u somehow disabled them from growing any stronger with other hax). It would be disadvantageous if the user of Psych Up is already naturally weaker then the opponent. So no matter how many times u use the move, if your already weaker then the opponent is in stats, u may get stronger but not stronger then the opponent. In other words, unless the opponent is prevented from getting any stronger while you still can, or if your stronger/equal to the stats of your opponent, this counters Psych Up and makes it kinda useless

So after rethinking it, no Psych Up wouldnt be an NLF.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Psych Up just copies stat changes, not direct power. If a 3-B character multiplied their power by 10, and Mewtwo used Psych Up, he would only multiply his own initial power by 10. He wouldn't come anywhere close to 3-B.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^this. This would go for AP and Durability correct? Along with speed.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

^this. This would go for AP and Durability correct? Along with speed.

Depends entirely on what his opponent is buffing.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yeah, like if Goku used Kaioken x10 then Mewtwo's attack and speed would get the same boost i.e a x10 boost to attack and possibly speed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So is psyche up good now?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

That moment where this threads topic inspires u to make another thread with trying to quantify abilities next lol

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Depends entirely on what his opponent is buffing.

So if an opponent used a techique that increased all their physical stats (AP, Durability, Speed) by 1000 times, and Mewtwo uses Psyche Up, he just gets HIS stats increase by a 1000 times too?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So if an opponent used a techique that increased all their physical stats (AP, Durability, Speed) by 1000 times, and Mewtwo uses Psyche Up, he just gets HIS stats increase by a 1000 times too?

Presumably, yes. Most descriptions of Psych Up just say something to the extent of "copies the target's stat changes" and that's it. However, this also has the downside of copying negative changes. For instance, if an opponent used a technique to raise their AP but lower their durability, Mewtwo would copy both of those.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Presumably, yes. Most descriptions of Psych Up just say something to the extent of "copies the target's stat changes" and that's it. However, this also has the downside of copying negative changes. For instance, if an opponent used a technique to raise their AP but lower their durability, Mewtwo would copy both of those.

I see, I didn't think about the possibility of decreasing stats too. Good point.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is more of a question than anything else, but what's the calc on Mewtwo's planetary storm?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Forgive me for looking like a total idiot but what does AP mean lol? Attack Potency?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Yosh

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well most agreed with Psyche up being a legitimate ability so I added it. Mewtwo's storm wasn't calculated to my knowledge. You'd have to make a calc request.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

tbh I think this is should be good enough for now. Heck for all we know Sun and Moon my give Mewtwo some new moves...