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A classic battle: Pit Vs Kratos

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WarriorWare said:
Come on, then, post a FTL feat that Pit has going for him without Palutena. Come on, I'm waiting.
Still, given Kratos' massively superior durability, Pit would break his hand if he tried to punch him. Furthermore, Pit doesn't just throw people into space. Bloodlusted =/= Doing whatever you think is the most effective method.
Click to expand...
He's using the Great Sacred Treasure, according to the OP.

The mech has the spectacular feat of chasing down Hades by flying through a wormhole: [1]

There's also the fact that Kratos likely weighs about 225 pounds and the mech can punch with enough force to obliterate a mountain, which is more than enough to knock someone like him into orbit, even if it doesn't injure him.
 
Angry Dummy said:
WarriorWare said:
Come on, then, post a FTL feat that Pit has going for him without Palutena. Come on, I'm waiting.
Still, given Kratos' massively superior durability, Pit would break his hand if he tried to punch him. Furthermore, Pit doesn't just throw people into space. Bloodlusted =/= Doing whatever you think is the most effective method.
Click to expand...
He's using the Great Sacred Treasure, according to the OP.
The mech has the spectacular feat of chasing down Hades by flying through a wormhole: [1]

There's also the fact that Kratos likely weighs about 225 pounds and the mech can punch with enough force to obliterate a mountain, which is more than enough to knock someone like him into orbit, even if it doesn't injure him.
Click to expand...
Kratos with his best weapon would arguably be with his godform and the sword of olympus. If your gonna make an argumenthoe is pit going phase kratos's body with a mountain level punch that's laughble or by your logic pit could knock goku into space even with superior durability. Also kratos again fights people who are way above pits pay grade and they can't even ragdoll him. Again space argument requires pit to be bloodlusted and pit rarely even uses his head he goes in shooting what ever he see's he's straight forward as any hero comes.
 
As much as I love Kratos, I must fully agree with Angry Dummy here. I've played the GOW games (And he's Massively Hypersonic+, tbh), and the strategy that Angry Dummy mentioned would work perfectly on Kratos.
 
Would it? Does this mech have higher physical strength than Kratos? I remember him having fairly impressive feats in that regard.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Would it? Does this mech have higher physical strength than Kratos? I remember him having fairly impressive feats in that regard.
Click to expand...

TWe have no records on the thing's lifting strength, but it was able to do that punch-parry thing (this trope) with the giant Hades, which confirms it can level a mountain and take that level of force without so much as a scratch. It is plenty strong enough to pick up and fly around with several hundred pounds at speeds faster than light.

The argument between the mech's lifting strength against Kratos' assumes that Kratos and the mech are in a shoving match where both are in a position that they can shove with maximum force, which qould lean in Kratos' favor.

This, however, is not the situation he would be in.

He would be trying to push a mech that has grabbed him and flown off back to earth.

The main problem is the complete and utter lack of a solid foundation.

Required Secondary Powers 1502


It's kind of like this picture, except instead of trying to pull a giant robot off the ground while standing on a leverage point not built to handle that level of force concentrated on one area, he is trying to push a giant robot without a leverage point at all. All he has to support him is the air underneath his feet. It's why the idea of Chuck Norris pushing and pulling the earth instead of himself when doing a push-up is considered silly instead of serious. Required secondary powers are key.

While Kratos doesn't have Bulk's problem, having the required secondary power of making the ground beneath him just as strong, if not stronger than he is when lifting a massive object, I have yet to see an animesque moment where he dead-lifts a mountain-sized titan while levitating, and we don't automatically assume a character can do something without evidence. We call that the "Hasty Generalization" fallacy, also known around here as the "No-Limits" fallacy.

Meanwhile, Pit's mech is flying around using jet-thrusters, so he has plenty of lift to help him out. Flying through the air while holding something is a trait that we have seen time and time again in reality, fiction, and this game before (see every flying character holding a weapon or catching another falling character in the sky, including Pyrrhon and Dark Pit), so that's a go.

He has enough horse-power to combat a being that can shatter a mountain and equalize him, so lifting a human made of flesh and blood, magical or no, would be like using a crane to lift a paper-clip. It's more than enough.

In addition, durability =/= weight. I can pick up and throw a diamond despite being unable to bust it with my bare hands. An elevator is strong enough to lift Clark Kent up to his floor at the Daily Planet, despite being able to tank a supernova.

Kratos can tank a blow that can destroy an island, but that doesn't make him heavier. You need some sort of extra, secondary power to help you there. Superman does it using his flight and super strength. Kratos has strength, but without a leverage point with which to brace himself against, he could very definitely get knocked into the air by an uppercut from a strong enough foe, even if it hurts him less than it would Wile E. Coyote.

In a shoving match on the ground where Kratos is trying not to get bully-pushed into the dirt, the Ghost of Sparta wins because he can leverage himself in a way that his strength will save the day.

Unless Kratos can magically anchor himself to the ground like the Blob, he's going on a lightspeed trip once he gets into contact.


I'm not a mathematician. I just write down every impossible feat a character does and figures out when reality ensues and kills them in a battle against a more ridiculous foe.
 
it seems pit can blitz kratos so i might give it to him because the difference is too much
 
If we add this to Pit's victories, we should add the vital detail that Pit would get squashed like a gnat if he was limited to equipment that still actually exists in his universe.

Does Pit even know where the nearest black hole is? Can he really get Kratos there before Kratos grabs his head and crushes it in his palm like a grape?
 
WarriorWare said:
If we add this to Pit's victories, we should add the vital detail that Pit would get squashed like a gnat if he was limited to equipment that still actually exists in his universe.
Does Pit even know where the nearest black hole is? Can he really get Kratos there before Kratos grabs his head and crushes it in his palm like a grape?
Click to expand...
i think the point was that kratos cannot breath or move in space.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
i think the point was that kratos cannot breath or move in space.
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Pretty much.

He can move, but he has no form of propulsion to make the movement useful. Arms and legs only work if you have something to walk, crawl, or push off of. Space does not.

He also can't breathe. Or maybe he can, if this is the Kid Icarus space. Still, he might get eaten by a space kraken out there.

Regardless, it's battlefield removal.
 
So i say there is a chance for both to win tbh. Kratos with brute strength. Pit with flight speed and battlefield removal. i call inconclusive.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
So i say there is a chance for both to win tbh. Kratos with brute strength. Pit with flight speed and battlefield removal. i call inconclusive.
Click to expand...

Sure, I can go for that.

Besides, arguing about "travel speed" makes my head hurt.
 
Alice Liddel in WikiLand said:
What is the difference between "travel speed" and "comba speed"? also. Pit MUST have FTL reactions because he can fly at FTL speed. So...
Click to expand...
The arguments I've heard are, "Palutena guides him all the time, not him," (Great Sacred Treasure says hi), "His limbs don't move that fast," (I'm calling BS and pointing out the various mid-air clashes he makes against other foes moving as fast), and "Because he doesn't do that on the ground," (which makes his aerial combat not as good... why?).

I personally think that Travel Speed is nonsense 9 times out of 10, with that tenth time being when the method involves a vehicle that they have to set-up before going that speed via auto-pilot (ie warp-drive), or the method is set-up so that the user can't fight with it effectively (e.g. teleportation, jumping through a wormhole...).

Yes, logically one would require FTL reactions to not paste themselves on obstacles while going that speed.

For further reading, see the Outskirts Battledome Wiki page on it and our page on it.

Speed

"Travel Speed" Fallacy


The latter section of the OBD page is what I had in mind as I was arguing here.
 
I think that Pit can use the Wings of Pegasus to actually boost his jumps instead of flying, making his fight with Kratos similar to the one with Hermes: if is true that he can't defeat him in a close combat fight, he can still kite him.
 
It should make abundantly clear that Pit only has a chance against Kratos with the Great Sacred Treasure, which no longer exists.
 
WarriorWare said:
It should make abundantly clear that Pit only has a chance against Kratos with the Great Sacred Treasure, which no longer exists.
Click to expand...
wouldn't be the first time we used destroyed weapons in a vs battle.
 
Yes, by blowing up the core of it, causing a chain reaction that destroyed the base; thankfully Palutena teleported him out of there, as it's made abundantly clear that Pit would have never survived such an explosion.
 
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