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I think Manipulating the soul has more applications to it and more possibilites but destroying the soul, is just that, destroying it.
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A Certain Upgrade to Some Characters
- Thread starter XDragnoir
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My final opinions on all of this:
Imagine Breaker (for Touma) and World Rejecter (for Kakeru and Yuiitsu) should be upgraded to High 1-C. Reasons for this: the statement of WR being capable of banishing a full power magic god. The fact that WR is only part of the power that created IB taking a new form when the magic gods started to lose trust in Touma and that both hand powers are considered counterparts (ultimate shield and ultimate spear). IB can negate Curtana Originals 11-D dimensional slash. IB negated and destroyed Gungnir, which allowed magic god Othinus to control her power and is a weapon that destroys all normal Phases when thrown while only sustaining two broken fingers. IB was used by Othinus to undo all her Phase shifts. When Touma tried to use IB on Coronzon with avatar's Flaming Sword he got utterly wrecked, but he was still left in the verge of death instead of being obliterated and his right hand was still there, even though presumably as wrecked as the rest of his body. Weaker showings where it struggles with weaker stuff shoudl be considered just that (there's also the "cannot fully negate a power if it's constantly supplied" or "power surpassed the cancelling speed" excuses Kamachi uses sometimes)
Reactive Evolution for Imagine Breaker is a bust for reasons I gave in my first reply. Spells of the same nature might vary in results against Touma and IB because of their mechanics or specific circumstances.
Disagree with giving Accelerator Clairvoyance since he hasn't demonstrated it.
I leave Othinus/Magic Gods being higher dimensional or not to people more knowledgeable in that stuff than me, but we already rate Magic God powers as High 1-C.
Unsure about giving Low-Godly Regenerationn to Gabriel, Qliphah and Coronzon. Gabriel best feats is regenerating from collapsing into pure energy, and it doesn't seem like archangels can pop back up in the world on their own if they are kicked out like Aiwass can. Qliphah had her body "blown away without a trace" and could be seen as having sustained damage to her "soul". We are sure that she at least cannot be killed if you do not fully destroy the Qliphoth in her, as she'll eventuallly repair damage to that and make a new body. We do not know the specifics about how Coronzon makes a physical body vessel, it could require some sort of prep/time. Coronzon could survive the destruction of its physical vessel and continue to act in her avatar-less state like Aiwass does, but I do not know if the only reason she managed to return to the world after being defeated was because the body of "Laura Stuart" was still intact for it to possess, so it could be just a matter of being in that specific situation (just like Aleister only came back because the original contract with Coronzon never was annulled). In fact, the novel notes the importance of the good guys having not dealth with just the soul and missing the vessel body.
I disagree with giving Conceptual Manipulation to anyone so far, but I agree with giving Aleister Soul Manipulation for the damage she caused to Qliphah when trying to destroy her.
Imagine Breaker (for Touma) and World Rejecter (for Kakeru and Yuiitsu) should be upgraded to High 1-C. Reasons for this: the statement of WR being capable of banishing a full power magic god. The fact that WR is only part of the power that created IB taking a new form when the magic gods started to lose trust in Touma and that both hand powers are considered counterparts (ultimate shield and ultimate spear). IB can negate Curtana Originals 11-D dimensional slash. IB negated and destroyed Gungnir, which allowed magic god Othinus to control her power and is a weapon that destroys all normal Phases when thrown while only sustaining two broken fingers. IB was used by Othinus to undo all her Phase shifts. When Touma tried to use IB on Coronzon with avatar's Flaming Sword he got utterly wrecked, but he was still left in the verge of death instead of being obliterated and his right hand was still there, even though presumably as wrecked as the rest of his body. Weaker showings where it struggles with weaker stuff shoudl be considered just that (there's also the "cannot fully negate a power if it's constantly supplied" or "power surpassed the cancelling speed" excuses Kamachi uses sometimes)
Reactive Evolution for Imagine Breaker is a bust for reasons I gave in my first reply. Spells of the same nature might vary in results against Touma and IB because of their mechanics or specific circumstances.
Disagree with giving Accelerator Clairvoyance since he hasn't demonstrated it.
I leave Othinus/Magic Gods being higher dimensional or not to people more knowledgeable in that stuff than me, but we already rate Magic God powers as High 1-C.
Unsure about giving Low-Godly Regenerationn to Gabriel, Qliphah and Coronzon. Gabriel best feats is regenerating from collapsing into pure energy, and it doesn't seem like archangels can pop back up in the world on their own if they are kicked out like Aiwass can. Qliphah had her body "blown away without a trace" and could be seen as having sustained damage to her "soul". We are sure that she at least cannot be killed if you do not fully destroy the Qliphoth in her, as she'll eventuallly repair damage to that and make a new body. We do not know the specifics about how Coronzon makes a physical body vessel, it could require some sort of prep/time. Coronzon could survive the destruction of its physical vessel and continue to act in her avatar-less state like Aiwass does, but I do not know if the only reason she managed to return to the world after being defeated was because the body of "Laura Stuart" was still intact for it to possess, so it could be just a matter of being in that specific situation (just like Aleister only came back because the original contract with Coronzon never was annulled). In fact, the novel notes the importance of the good guys having not dealth with just the soul and missing the vessel body.
I disagree with giving Conceptual Manipulation to anyone so far, but I agree with giving Aleister Soul Manipulation for the damage she caused to Qliphah when trying to destroy her.
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@Lazyhunter
Are we just adding Soul Manipulation to Aleister or both Aleister and Accelerator?
I'll do the upgrades for IB and WR but on IB are you getting rid of the 5-B rating and just having the High 1-C rating?
I'm not sure if it's going to be At least 5-B, possibly High 1-C or just High 1-C
Are we just adding Soul Manipulation to Aleister or both Aleister and Accelerator?
I'll do the upgrades for IB and WR but on IB are you getting rid of the 5-B rating and just having the High 1-C rating?
I'm not sure if it's going to be At least 5-B, possibly High 1-C or just High 1-C
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Okay all profiles with IB and WR have been upgraded.
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I'll add Soul Manipulation to Accelerator page since Lazy said he should get it via this quote.
Aleister's page is locked though.LazyHunter said:
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Shouldnt Touma's durability be High 1-C with IB?
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No because Touma can be killed/hurt by normal things such as guns etc. IB, doesn't give Touma a durability boost, same as Accelerator's reflection doesn't give him an AP boost.
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I mean, he does have Low 2-C dura from Pre-Upgrade IB (which was Low 2-C), so I thought he could have High 1-C dura against supernatural attacks or something
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Oh I see. I don't particiular agree with this since this makes it seem that IB can fend of any attack, be it supernatural or not.
IB is also more negation than durability. It negates the power behind an attack thus making it powerless.
I'll upgrade anyway but I might bring this point up again soon.
IB is also more negation than durability. It negates the power behind an attack thus making it powerless.
I'll upgrade anyway but I might bring this point up again soon.
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Of course, it would be a case by case thing. For example, he should be able to negate 1-C death hax just fine (since it affects his whole body) but he wouldnt be able to negate things that specifically targets other parts of his body, like taking a shot from an energy bullet in the feet
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Just Aleister's page.
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Thanks. Finished with Aleister's edits. Also I think we are done with Accelerator's edits as well.
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- Thread starter
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The only thing left is Othinus tier. The true magic gods (Neph, Niang, etc) can destroy all phases with just their presence, but Othinus, even with Gungnir, never tanked/did a physical H1C attack, so, i think, Unknown physically, H1C with Gungnir and Probab Manip, is better than just H1C.
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I think High 1-C is fine, from what I gather when you reach a certain tier there are different levels to that tier. Like for example true Magic gods would be on the Higher level of High 1-C while Othinus is on a lower level of High 1-C.
I might be completely wrong on that though.
I might be completely wrong on that though.
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