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9-B Brackets: Round 5
- Thread starter Dargoo_Faust
- Start date
- 15,637
- 5,392
- Thread starter
- #42
Scott - 4 (Chartate, Core, Jiangshi, Apies)
Billy - 3 (Monarch, Shrek, Mand)
Billy - 3 (Monarch, Shrek, Mand)
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- Thread starter
- #43
Speedbump again.
I might post the next round, seeing as most of the arguments have been made here.
I might post the next round, seeing as most of the arguments have been made here.
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I... am not sure if it's a good idea to switch to another vote just because "You tend to agree with that person more"
The issue however remains. Yes Billy can keep track of him. But you'll still have trouble hitting such a small target. Even with the razor at full speed it's easy for Scott to get over the sharp edge and avoid the rest of it within smaller distance. Sure it's equal speed. But hey we have a tendency to miss mosquitoes when we slap them right? And our hands move much faster than them.
Add in the fact that using a shrink device against such a weapon would be crippling.
Also how does he kill him with a surprise attack? Like is it just a general stabbing attack?
I want to point out that Scott still has the flying ants to use and take to the skies, which would be very difficult for someone to deal with when they rely on tunneling magic. And also how would Billy see those small shrink ray devices? One hit from said device would pretty much mean he can't revert back to normal anymore no?
So yes from the start he can kill Scott here. But on the other hand, a slip up is enough for Scott to win. One shrinking device can spell doom. I mean sure he can still tunnel around, but then again the ants would be bigger threats now. And an ant army is not gonna be fun to deal with when you're small.
The issue however remains. Yes Billy can keep track of him. But you'll still have trouble hitting such a small target. Even with the razor at full speed it's easy for Scott to get over the sharp edge and avoid the rest of it within smaller distance. Sure it's equal speed. But hey we have a tendency to miss mosquitoes when we slap them right? And our hands move much faster than them.
Add in the fact that using a shrink device against such a weapon would be crippling.
Also how does he kill him with a surprise attack? Like is it just a general stabbing attack?
I want to point out that Scott still has the flying ants to use and take to the skies, which would be very difficult for someone to deal with when they rely on tunneling magic. And also how would Billy see those small shrink ray devices? One hit from said device would pretty much mean he can't revert back to normal anymore no?
So yes from the start he can kill Scott here. But on the other hand, a slip up is enough for Scott to win. One shrinking device can spell doom. I mean sure he can still tunnel around, but then again the ants would be bigger threats now. And an ant army is not gonna be fun to deal with when you're small.
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It's an entirely justifiable reason to swap for. This fight isn't objective.
You seem to think Billy's just going to start desperately swining around when Antman shrinks, instead of just tunelling and waiting for Antman to come back or stand still for a moment.
"How would Billy see those small shrink ray devices". Billy is blind. He doesn't see, he senses. It's how he knows where he's going when tunnels, and its how he read things far too small for anyone with normal eyes to see.
Flying around the air while Billy just hangs out underground would still be inconclusive
You seem to think Billy's just going to start desperately swining around when Antman shrinks, instead of just tunelling and waiting for Antman to come back or stand still for a moment.
"How would Billy see those small shrink ray devices". Billy is blind. He doesn't see, he senses. It's how he knows where he's going when tunnels, and its how he read things far too small for anyone with normal eyes to see.
Flying around the air while Billy just hangs out underground would still be inconclusive
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Just not something you'd usually see. I mean if someone were to vote for me just for that reason I'll be unsure what to feel.
I do not. I imagine that the moment an enemy becomes something he can't see anymore the logical thing to do is to be on the defensive. Aka, yeah, tunneling. Which then leads to the situation of what reason would Scott have to revert back to normal now that he knows that the enemy can attack from underground, when the logical situation is take to the skies with his ants?
Bad wording on my part. In that case how does he see actually? Is it akin to echolation? Is it akin to something like a third person view where he just sees it through supernatural means? Is there a way to get around it and etc. Not to mention that it's not as if Scott can just not rush and use it against him. Also, why would his first instinct be actually to dodge those attacks? For all he knows he could've expected them to be nothing more than poisonous blades that he can block with his weapon, which would be a very bad move. I'm not saying Scott is a genius in combat or anything. If anything in a hand to hand scenario, it's likely Billy wins. But that's if we assume Scott isn't going to mix shape shift and sudden usage of shrink weapons. Which would not reveal what they can do to Billy so easily unless they hit their mark, which would be him. Which means there's very little chance for Scott to lose that advantage.
Seems logical to me. If they stay that way.
I do not. I imagine that the moment an enemy becomes something he can't see anymore the logical thing to do is to be on the defensive. Aka, yeah, tunneling. Which then leads to the situation of what reason would Scott have to revert back to normal now that he knows that the enemy can attack from underground, when the logical situation is take to the skies with his ants?
Bad wording on my part. In that case how does he see actually? Is it akin to echolation? Is it akin to something like a third person view where he just sees it through supernatural means? Is there a way to get around it and etc. Not to mention that it's not as if Scott can just not rush and use it against him. Also, why would his first instinct be actually to dodge those attacks? For all he knows he could've expected them to be nothing more than poisonous blades that he can block with his weapon, which would be a very bad move. I'm not saying Scott is a genius in combat or anything. If anything in a hand to hand scenario, it's likely Billy wins. But that's if we assume Scott isn't going to mix shape shift and sudden usage of shrink weapons. Which would not reveal what they can do to Billy so easily unless they hit their mark, which would be him. Which means there's very little chance for Scott to lose that advantage.
Seems logical to me. If they stay that way.
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He's not voting because he "agrees with me". He's voting because he "agrees with me". See the difference? It's not because he likes me better or something. He's voting because he feels like Billy would be more likely to win based on the arguments presented.
I guess if Ant Man takes to the skies and Billy tunnels underground, it turns inconclusive again. Though that's assuming they'll both stay that way forever and never come back down/up to fight again. In which case Billy outlives via longevity.
In the wise words of Skulduggery Pleasant "I guess that's magic too". He doesn't have eyes, but he sees anyway, and he sees better than most.
I don't know what the shrinking devices look like, and I'm beginning to regret entering this thread as I feel Infinity War spoilers are coming up. But Billy is not a blocker. He uses a straight razor, i.e this. Hard to block with that. Billy is a dodger who makes prodigious use of his ability to just sink into the ground and through walls to avoid hits.
If they stay that way, which seems unlikely, Billy outlives
I guess if Ant Man takes to the skies and Billy tunnels underground, it turns inconclusive again. Though that's assuming they'll both stay that way forever and never come back down/up to fight again. In which case Billy outlives via longevity.
In the wise words of Skulduggery Pleasant "I guess that's magic too". He doesn't have eyes, but he sees anyway, and he sees better than most.
I don't know what the shrinking devices look like, and I'm beginning to regret entering this thread as I feel Infinity War spoilers are coming up. But Billy is not a blocker. He uses a straight razor, i.e this. Hard to block with that. Billy is a dodger who makes prodigious use of his ability to just sink into the ground and through walls to avoid hits.
If they stay that way, which seems unlikely, Billy outlives
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Seeing as how Scott has fought against others with ranged weaponry such as guns and come out on top I don't think tunneling is going to be a big deal.
They are fighting in Central Park too. There are TONS of ants there to take advantage of too. The Falcon fight is ok but there are much better examples of him fighting better like against Yellow Jacket.
Once Ant-Man gets in Billy once it's kinda over for Billy such as when Ant-Man took on Black Widow......only lost to her since she had electric gauntlets that he was holding on to.
They are fighting in Central Park too. There are TONS of ants there to take advantage of too. The Falcon fight is ok but there are much better examples of him fighting better like against Yellow Jacket.
Once Ant-Man gets in Billy once it's kinda over for Billy such as when Ant-Man took on Black Widow......only lost to her since she had electric gauntlets that he was holding on to.
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Err the words were
>I actually tend to agree with Monarch, so... Billy FRA?
Which is different from
>I agree with Monarch
Look I don't want to cause trouble on something light at this. If they're voting for you that's fine, I'm just kinda startled by the semantics. I'm not denying their vote, I'm just saying. Which I mean I'm sure they imply what they actually mean but yeah.
So.... we wait for eons for... Won't it just end up a tie? To that extent I mean some fighters can grow old when it would make sense for it to be a tie. It doesn't seem fair to think both would end up like that.
Gotcha. Makes sense though we can't say he sees everything small in that case. And I don't mean ant level small but I mean really small. Still, that won't affect the battle too much so carry on.
Don't worry, I'm a Spoiler Free kind of guy. I won't spoil you anything and promising you, nothing about that will be discussed here. But really, they showed up in the Ant-man movie before. Remember these? https://youtu.be/WolmvYAK-5A?t=46 (Ant-man spoilers, not Infinity War, but just Ant-man) I timestamped the video on 0:46 if it doesn't load.
Also I do agree, hard to block a razor when you're a normal human person. But a small person that you can barely see? Kinda becomes a different story, especially when you can use your shrink device against it to shrink said razor. Does Billy keep a lot of those? Also, if Scott uses this device when he's already shrunk, it's gonna be very hard to dodge it considering smaller mass means greater acceleration.
On another note... If they were still to face one on one, Scott still has the issue of massive advantage over 'surprise ability' since he can basically seriously cripple Sanguine with a single well timed shrinking device. Heck, he could take a hit on purpose whether to the limb, and nail him with that shrinking device. I really don't have a good name for said shrinking device. But one hit is all it takes to seriously hurt him. And if he does become small and just runs away, would running away count as a tie when you rendered your enemy unable to fight back?
>I actually tend to agree with Monarch, so... Billy FRA?
Which is different from
>I agree with Monarch
Look I don't want to cause trouble on something light at this. If they're voting for you that's fine, I'm just kinda startled by the semantics. I'm not denying their vote, I'm just saying. Which I mean I'm sure they imply what they actually mean but yeah.
So.... we wait for eons for... Won't it just end up a tie? To that extent I mean some fighters can grow old when it would make sense for it to be a tie. It doesn't seem fair to think both would end up like that.
Gotcha. Makes sense though we can't say he sees everything small in that case. And I don't mean ant level small but I mean really small. Still, that won't affect the battle too much so carry on.
Don't worry, I'm a Spoiler Free kind of guy. I won't spoil you anything and promising you, nothing about that will be discussed here. But really, they showed up in the Ant-man movie before. Remember these? https://youtu.be/WolmvYAK-5A?t=46 (Ant-man spoilers, not Infinity War, but just Ant-man) I timestamped the video on 0:46 if it doesn't load.
Also I do agree, hard to block a razor when you're a normal human person. But a small person that you can barely see? Kinda becomes a different story, especially when you can use your shrink device against it to shrink said razor. Does Billy keep a lot of those? Also, if Scott uses this device when he's already shrunk, it's gonna be very hard to dodge it considering smaller mass means greater acceleration.
On another note... If they were still to face one on one, Scott still has the issue of massive advantage over 'surprise ability' since he can basically seriously cripple Sanguine with a single well timed shrinking device. Heck, he could take a hit on purpose whether to the limb, and nail him with that shrinking device. I really don't have a good name for said shrinking device. But one hit is all it takes to seriously hurt him. And if he does become small and just runs away, would running away count as a tie when you rendered your enemy unable to fight back?
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@Nico
Still think that cat got lucky
But I think he was barely even dazed by that considering he went on his way to get a firetruck.... Also, he should be allowed to use enlarging devices right? That case... we may have the firetruck treatment, or giant ant treatment. Also maybe electric resistance?
That said I do think range weapons are different to guns, but him jumping over bullets basically means he could jump over the razor as he goes. Also, keeping up hand to hand with Black Widow is a very good feat.
Still think that cat got lucky
But I think he was barely even dazed by that considering he went on his way to get a firetruck.... Also, he should be allowed to use enlarging devices right? That case... we may have the firetruck treatment, or giant ant treatment. Also maybe electric resistance?
That said I do think range weapons are different to guns, but him jumping over bullets basically means he could jump over the razor as he goes. Also, keeping up hand to hand with Black Widow is a very good feat.
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They still said "Billy FRA", Core.
Regardless of the sentiments in the first portion of that post they explicitly stated they agreed with Monarch's reasoning.
I'm not exactly sure how Billy's tunneling magic works, but if he tunnels and Scott follows him, I believe he can phase Scott into the ground, which he would have to go full size to get out of or asphyxiate to death. Or just asphyxiate to death, depending on how deep he is in the ground.
Regardless of the sentiments in the first portion of that post they explicitly stated they agreed with Monarch's reasoning.
I'm not exactly sure how Billy's tunneling magic works, but if he tunnels and Scott follows him, I believe he can phase Scott into the ground, which he would have to go full size to get out of or asphyxiate to death. Or just asphyxiate to death, depending on how deep he is in the ground.
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A shrunken Billy could also tunnel through Antman's flesh and into his brain
Just pointing that out.
Also, about Billy blocking, the point is that he is going to avoid Ant Man throwing something at him, not try to block it or smack it out of the air. Not that it would be difficult to block or something
Billy could also see things too small for normal people to see, so unless Ant Man goes reallysmall, I think he'll know where he is
Just pointing that out.
Also, about Billy blocking, the point is that he is going to avoid Ant Man throwing something at him, not try to block it or smack it out of the air. Not that it would be difficult to block or something
Billy could also see things too small for normal people to see, so unless Ant Man goes reallysmall, I think he'll know where he is
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@Dargoo
Ah of course, the absolutely strong FRA ;-; I can't hold a candle to that. But yeah fair nuff, still, it's not what you hear everyday. But let's avoid that strange topic.
True. On the other hand... he could just send his ants there.. That said he could just enlarge in size to really mess up the ground/soil, and then revert back, now being able to fight in a small area.
@Monarch
His ability applies to flesh? A bit questioning on that. On the other hand, that's if he gets clos to Scott anyway. He now has an army of ants that he has to deal with. I'd say it's a safe thing to assume that Scott would think it's a bad idea to get close to the ground anyway. Not to mention he's also smaller now, so a slap could really mess up Billy. Or an ant army still. If forced to retreat well... it becomes a loss doesn't it?
I mean there are circumstances where you can only take a hit and block, or it just barely nicks you. There is also the circumstance of taking a hit so that you can make him small.
The objective isn't for Scott to be really small, but rather for him to use really small weapons that can barely be seen. I mean regular people already have trouble seeing what he tosses out at high speed. But if he does it while really small? It's gonna be practically invisible.
Ah of course, the absolutely strong FRA ;-; I can't hold a candle to that. But yeah fair nuff, still, it's not what you hear everyday. But let's avoid that strange topic.
True. On the other hand... he could just send his ants there.. That said he could just enlarge in size to really mess up the ground/soil, and then revert back, now being able to fight in a small area.
@Monarch
His ability applies to flesh? A bit questioning on that. On the other hand, that's if he gets clos to Scott anyway. He now has an army of ants that he has to deal with. I'd say it's a safe thing to assume that Scott would think it's a bad idea to get close to the ground anyway. Not to mention he's also smaller now, so a slap could really mess up Billy. Or an ant army still. If forced to retreat well... it becomes a loss doesn't it?
I mean there are circumstances where you can only take a hit and block, or it just barely nicks you. There is also the circumstance of taking a hit so that you can make him small.
The objective isn't for Scott to be really small, but rather for him to use really small weapons that can barely be seen. I mean regular people already have trouble seeing what he tosses out at high speed. But if he does it while really small? It's gonna be practically invisible.
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Yes, he can tunnel through fleshMonarch Laciel said:
And he can also tunnel through reinforced magic resistant clothing
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Bump
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Hmm. Is it as long as the enemy is bigger than him? Or can he do that against regular sized enemies? Scott would still be taking to the air though and that doesn't disregard the issue of many ants being around.
I don't think we have to worry about magic in this matchup.
I don't think we have to worry about magic in this matchup.
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Black cleaver was about the same size as him.
Scott doesn't generally take to the air from what i've seen. If he's fighting, he's getting up close and personal
Scott doesn't generally take to the air from what i've seen. If he's fighting, he's getting up close and personal
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I'm going to have to go with inconclusive here. Based on the arguments presented, both are likely possibilities. I doubt that Billy would one shot Lang, and Lang isn't so stupid as to stay large once he sees that Billy can tunnel. His ants may also be able to warn him of Billy's presence if there's anything to pick up on. Though it's magical in nature so I highly doubt it.
Lang also would loose terribly in a CQC fight, so flying is likely his best bet.
I don't really have too much to say here. I think the arguments for both sides have been fleshed out rather well.
Lang also would loose terribly in a CQC fight, so flying is likely his best bet.
I don't really have too much to say here. I think the arguments for both sides have been fleshed out rather well.
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@Monarch
Just read above, gotcha.
No enemy of his has stuck with stealth. How are you going to take something you can't see because you saw it go underground, up close and personal? He's had his fair share of stealth before seeing as he went with that route on Tony. If the enemy is clearly visible then yes, unless he knows it's a trap. Even against visible opponents Scott has always relied on Ant-hony (the flying ant) to move around until he died.
@Litentric
Do you need magic detection to tell where Billy is? I think he should be able to tell.
Actually Scott was able to keep up with Black Widow. A very reknowned assassin/CQC combatant. So he can keep it up. But don't forget that he could change the scope of the battle with one little shrink disc.
Also thank you : )
Do want to tell for addition. I just realiized. The shrinking device might be the worst thing to get hit by. Considering that the enemies that Scott fights, always has that armor and device that allows them to shrink and enlarge. Without said armor and tech... You get this:
https://youtu.be/k0qkYbj_4qM?t=15
Before anyone says that that's a different shrinking tech, it's not. It's the same thing and Darren Cross/Yellowjacket has the same goal and was almost on the same level of tech there. The only issue he had is how to properly shrink someone without hurting them, which you need the armor for. In this case, Billy does not. So he may end up liquified if he doesn't have the armor.
On the other hand, if he does get into Scott's bloodstream while small, Scott can just make himself smaller to kick him out leaving him airborne. Which is a bad idea when you have a lot of ants that could fly, and an ant army waiting for you. Not to mention if he gets hit by another shrinking device while small... well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vC_yJE0mHQ
He may go subatomic, which even Scott barely got out of. Considering he doesn't have the tech to enlarge or pull off what Tony did, well, he's likely gonna be shrinking forever.
Just read above, gotcha.
No enemy of his has stuck with stealth. How are you going to take something you can't see because you saw it go underground, up close and personal? He's had his fair share of stealth before seeing as he went with that route on Tony. If the enemy is clearly visible then yes, unless he knows it's a trap. Even against visible opponents Scott has always relied on Ant-hony (the flying ant) to move around until he died.
@Litentric
Do you need magic detection to tell where Billy is? I think he should be able to tell.
Actually Scott was able to keep up with Black Widow. A very reknowned assassin/CQC combatant. So he can keep it up. But don't forget that he could change the scope of the battle with one little shrink disc.
Also thank you : )
Do want to tell for addition. I just realiized. The shrinking device might be the worst thing to get hit by. Considering that the enemies that Scott fights, always has that armor and device that allows them to shrink and enlarge. Without said armor and tech... You get this:
https://youtu.be/k0qkYbj_4qM?t=15
Before anyone says that that's a different shrinking tech, it's not. It's the same thing and Darren Cross/Yellowjacket has the same goal and was almost on the same level of tech there. The only issue he had is how to properly shrink someone without hurting them, which you need the armor for. In this case, Billy does not. So he may end up liquified if he doesn't have the armor.
On the other hand, if he does get into Scott's bloodstream while small, Scott can just make himself smaller to kick him out leaving him airborne. Which is a bad idea when you have a lot of ants that could fly, and an ant army waiting for you. Not to mention if he gets hit by another shrinking device while small... well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vC_yJE0mHQ
He may go subatomic, which even Scott barely got out of. Considering he doesn't have the tech to enlarge or pull off what Tony did, well, he's likely gonna be shrinking forever.
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@Core
I think it's a major stretch to say that he can keep up with Widow when it comes to pure skill. She's been trained for an extraordinary amount of time, and he's been trained for like, maybe a few months at the most? Imagine both of them fighting, no suit or gadgets, who would win? I get that he may be stronger, just by virtue of him being a guy who's in shape, but more skillful? Once again, a huge stretch.
I mean, if Billy dives into a wall, you probably don't know where he's gonna pop out until he actually starts popping out. In which case Lang would have to react to that, rather than being able to anticipate exactly from where Billy will come.
I think it's a major stretch to say that he can keep up with Widow when it comes to pure skill. She's been trained for an extraordinary amount of time, and he's been trained for like, maybe a few months at the most? Imagine both of them fighting, no suit or gadgets, who would win? I get that he may be stronger, just by virtue of him being a guy who's in shape, but more skillful? Once again, a huge stretch.
I mean, if Billy dives into a wall, you probably don't know where he's gonna pop out until he actually starts popping out. In which case Lang would have to react to that, rather than being able to anticipate exactly from where Billy will come.
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Yeah keeping up was probably not the right word in that case. But he does stand a chance. So yeah I'd also agree that he's gonna get destroyed.... if it's just hand to hand combat. On the other hand with all the tech and possibility to just shrink him, he definitely has an easier time to take out Billy especially if he suddenly decides to go small and then toss in a shrinking disc, which may either kill Billy or shrink him.
True. But again he still stands a chance. On the other hand he'd probably still send his ants from the ground and above. He could try to shrink the house too maybe.
True. But again he still stands a chance. On the other hand he'd probably still send his ants from the ground and above. He could try to shrink the house too maybe.
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I mean, I don't disagree with any of the tech, I just think it's more plausible that Billy would land a hit first given the nature of his abilities. I think it depends on how quickly Lang would be able to pick up on Billy's ability. If it takes him too long, he'd likely die. If not, then he'd likely be able to use his tech to come up with a strategy to win. But possibilities seem equally likely to me, hence why I'm going with inconclusive.
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Fair enough. I think the tunneling ability seems simple enough though.
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I indeed expressed myself quite badly. I'm not biased towards Monarch, I'm actually so unbiased on this fight that I find it hard to objectively decide to one side or another. This is a tough battle where none of the two sides has a notable enough advantage, I just believe that Monarch's arguments sound better and they imply something like a 60-40 chance for Billy to win or lose. That's enough for me to not vote inconclusive.
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@Mand21
Fair enough.
@Nico
Fair nuff, had to rephrase my answer to him with tech.
Fair enough.
@Nico
Fair nuff, had to rephrase my answer to him with tech.
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I'll be voting for Ant-Man btw. His ability to be small gives him a great advantage in not being an easy target, will likely win the hand-to-hand fight like he was with Black Widow (that darn electric gauntlet of hers), and environmental advantage with ant piles EVERWHERE in Central Park.
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Scott - 5 (Chartate, Core, Jiangshi, Apies, Nico)
Billy - 3 (Monarch, Shrek, Mand)
Incon - 1 (Litentric)
Billy - 3 (Monarch, Shrek, Mand)
Incon - 1 (Litentric)
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Btw Dargoo on the event of a tie what would happen to the brackets?
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I'd have a sort of bonus round on the fun and games board.
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make it who would win in a rap battle
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Speedbump
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Bump again, looks like we only need several more votes to reach a conclusion.
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Ant Man fighting Widow is a terrible example. He definitely did not outskill her, he just shrunk and caught her off guard. A maneouver like that against Sanguine would result in both of them ending up a few dozen metres underground and then Sanguine breezes away and leaves him trapped
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Already said it before, just bad phrasing on my part. To note, I didn't say outskill, I said keep up by a bit.CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
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Ant Man's fighting style largely relies on actually climbing on the target and smacking them around. Doing something like that would quickly rely on both of them going underground, because whether or not Sanguine thinks to actually trap him underground, sinking underground to get away from attacks is completely in-character for him. If Ant Man is on him at the time, he's going to get pulled under too.
He has also never used shrinking devices against a human opponent with the exception of Yellow Jacket who also had a shrinking suit, and thus it is not in character for him to do so here.
He has also never used shrinking devices against a human opponent with the exception of Yellow Jacket who also had a shrinking suit, and thus it is not in character for him to do so here.
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Replace climbing with leaping onto targets, changing sizes to various forms to shake up the target, turning small when he's about to be hit and then flipping the enemy down. He is not literally just smacking an enemy but has martial arts practice. Relying on flips and a bit of em. Enough to stand a chance against someone like Black Widow.
On the other hand it's in character for Ant-man to fly away and keep at a good distance. What's the next logical step to do when your enemy dives underground while you remain floating above and have an army of ants? Use the army of ants to track the target. On the other hand, Scott can also lure him on purpose on the ground, and shrink the moment he recognizes that the ants feel off. A single hit from a disk is going to be disruptive to Billy.
Because he could actually deal with the enemies that he doesn't necessarily have to kill. He was more than willing to use them at Yellow Jacket and get him killed by various means. He didn't even give him a second glance when he got him seemingly killed by a bug zapper. I'll also go back to the theory of shrinking objects he could use, and throwing them at an enemy, before tossing an enlarging disc right at them to either crush them or cause some destruction. It's absurd to think he wouldn't use what he has at his full disposal especially when an enemy is out to kill him. But then again there are other means to take him out. I'm really hating the aspect that just because you're a nice guy in a movie and only used the ability to shift sizes against your nemesis that you aren't willing to use devices against people, especially when they're out to kill you and are a massive threat to you (explains the whole cops not being shrunk scene)
But yeah then again, I'm also hesitant on Billy literally staying the entire time below. I mean, cause some pipeline damage or some method to mess up the ground like shrink a tree and enlarge it underground. It's in character for Scott to use giant devices that way. Shrinking cars and then tossing them at the enemy and enlarging them.
On the other hand it's in character for Ant-man to fly away and keep at a good distance. What's the next logical step to do when your enemy dives underground while you remain floating above and have an army of ants? Use the army of ants to track the target. On the other hand, Scott can also lure him on purpose on the ground, and shrink the moment he recognizes that the ants feel off. A single hit from a disk is going to be disruptive to Billy.
Because he could actually deal with the enemies that he doesn't necessarily have to kill. He was more than willing to use them at Yellow Jacket and get him killed by various means. He didn't even give him a second glance when he got him seemingly killed by a bug zapper. I'll also go back to the theory of shrinking objects he could use, and throwing them at an enemy, before tossing an enlarging disc right at them to either crush them or cause some destruction. It's absurd to think he wouldn't use what he has at his full disposal especially when an enemy is out to kill him. But then again there are other means to take him out. I'm really hating the aspect that just because you're a nice guy in a movie and only used the ability to shift sizes against your nemesis that you aren't willing to use devices against people, especially when they're out to kill you and are a massive threat to you (explains the whole cops not being shrunk scene)
But yeah then again, I'm also hesitant on Billy literally staying the entire time below. I mean, cause some pipeline damage or some method to mess up the ground like shrink a tree and enlarge it underground. It's in character for Scott to use giant devices that way. Shrinking cars and then tossing them at the enemy and enlarging them.
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Black Widow is a trained fighter, but she's still a normal human. Compare that to Sanguine, who has his own supernatural abilities, and outmatched the the Black Cleaver, who on top of being a trained fighter who stomps other trained fighters, is a regenerating immortal.
Explain how Ant Man could use the ants to track Sanguine? It isn't like he has a telepathic link with them.
A single disc would kill Sanguine if it hits yes, but it is not in character for Scott to use his discs like that. "nemesis" or no, it is not his typical fighting style.
Sanguine could tunnel through the things being thrown at him, or just tunnel underground to dodge quite easily. And he could move around underground easily, it isn't like he needs to stay in the same place if Ant Man starts trying to tear the ground up.
Explain how Ant Man could use the ants to track Sanguine? It isn't like he has a telepathic link with them.
A single disc would kill Sanguine if it hits yes, but it is not in character for Scott to use his discs like that. "nemesis" or no, it is not his typical fighting style.
Sanguine could tunnel through the things being thrown at him, or just tunnel underground to dodge quite easily. And he could move around underground easily, it isn't like he needs to stay in the same place if Ant Man starts trying to tear the ground up.
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Because he seemed to have tunneled through the Black Cleaver? Well either way the level of martial arts on each is different. Point still stands of him standing a chance. A slip up will still be fatal regardless. Or taking in a hit and shoving said disc.
If ants die to being tunneled through, it would be noticeably by some other ants, and cue them relaying the message like that. Akin to actual ants delivering message. There's a delay but it will be noticeable.
Only few seemed to think so... Considering he's more than willing to toss in small objects, enlarge them, and crush enemies with it both in the trailer for ant man vs the wasp and the first movie. I mean, that's like saying a guy would not kill someone with a knife but rather with a gun.
But when the ground is really messy, aka crumbly/full of spots that are ready to fall apart, it's gonna be easier to tell where he is. If he 's close to the surface of course.
If ants die to being tunneled through, it would be noticeably by some other ants, and cue them relaying the message like that. Akin to actual ants delivering message. There's a delay but it will be noticeable.
Only few seemed to think so... Considering he's more than willing to toss in small objects, enlarge them, and crush enemies with it both in the trailer for ant man vs the wasp and the first movie. I mean, that's like saying a guy would not kill someone with a knife but rather with a gun.
But when the ground is really messy, aka crumbly/full of spots that are ready to fall apart, it's gonna be easier to tell where he is. If he 's close to the surface of course.
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He didn't just tunnel through the Black Cleaver. That was his last move. He was outmatching him in combat prior to that.
How would ants tell him that their numbers are dying?
He's willing to toss things, yes. He's never just used a shrinking device to kill someone.
Actually, making the ground crumbly would make it more difficult to see Sanguine. When Sanguine pops out of the ground/walls, it cracks a bit a second before he pops out. Making the ground all crumbly would make it harder to see Sanguine's cracksk amidst all the other cracks
How would ants tell him that their numbers are dying?
He's willing to toss things, yes. He's never just used a shrinking device to kill someone.
Actually, making the ground crumbly would make it more difficult to see Sanguine. When Sanguine pops out of the ground/walls, it cracks a bit a second before he pops out. Making the ground all crumbly would make it harder to see Sanguine's cracksk amidst all the other cracks
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