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Gazef Stronoff vs Crystal (Nuclear Throne)
8-C Versions
Speed Equal
SBA Otherwise
Votes
Hub, Tree8-C Versions
Speed Equal
SBA Otherwise
Votes
- Gazef:
- Crystal:
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8-C Tournament Match 12 (Gazef Stronoff vs Crystal (Nuclear Throne))
- Thread starter DontTalkDT
- Start date
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Danmaku gg.
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Yea basically nothing changes from the last match
Now we just move onto Lux using Quick Draw to bypass backwards teleportation and strafing, despite not boosting his travel speed?
Dunno. I'm not really looking forward to the match, for reasons expressed on discord.
——
Anyways, Gazef gets danmaku'd down. This is just Go-Gin again, honestly. Very poor luck for the two of them.
Now we just move onto Lux using Quick Draw to bypass backwards teleportation and strafing, despite not boosting his travel speed?
Dunno. I'm not really looking forward to the match, for reasons expressed on discord.
——
Anyways, Gazef gets danmaku'd down. This is just Go-Gin again, honestly. Very poor luck for the two of them.
Listentomyrhytm
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Crystal makes some good Beef Stronganoff FRA
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- Thread starter
- #6
4:0 for Crystal
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Crystal FRA
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- Thread starter
- #8
6:0, as I also vote Crystal.
1 vote to go.
1 vote to go.
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Crystal FRA
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Gazef does hold some advatages that go gin was lacking, he has speed amps and his regen comes from a magic item so theirs no risk of the radiation interfering with it. Still even with that I don't see a way for gazef to overcome the danmuku and the distance even with his speed amps. Saying that If gazef could get in close I don't see crystal surviving many hits considering the swords incredible sharpness.
The biggest issue is crystals range is a harsh counter for gazef, at his level closing the gap to a ranged opponent is difficult, especially against an opponent that will work to keep its range advatage. All he can really do is pump up his stat amps and charge.
still crystal fra
The biggest issue is crystals range is a harsh counter for gazef, at his level closing the gap to a ranged opponent is difficult, especially against an opponent that will work to keep its range advatage. All he can really do is pump up his stat amps and charge.
still crystal fra
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Gazef's amps, supportive abilities and relative skill should allow him to dodge the Danmaku and close the distance more times then not. Mental Enhancement+ possibly sense weakness should help him find any holes and he can likely use the four fold light slash to swat away some of the bullets.
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- Thread starter
- #12
Next Match.
I might have been a bit quick on this one since it didn't seem like any opposition was comming. If the overall result changes before the next match is concluded I will change the outcome in the bracket.
I might have been a bit quick on this one since it didn't seem like any opposition was comming. If the overall result changes before the next match is concluded I will change the outcome in the bracket.
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Hmm He might be able to close the distance can I get a clip of crystals danmuku it's been forever since I played nuclear throne but I remeber dealing with a ton of danmuku rather then dishing it out. (Well except when you play yv or rebel) I remeber crystal being a slower character overall.
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In the 8-C Key, Crystal has access to danmaku such as the Triple Machine Gun, Pop Gun, various explosives, flamethrowers - one on it's own may not be the most threatening danmaku, sure, but constantly switching (and using two at once because game mechanics can go out the window-) and strafing means Gazef can't do much.
(Rebel and YV have the scariest danmaku though, holy crap.)
(Rebel and YV have the scariest danmaku though, holy crap.)
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What suggests that crystal would use two at once? Strafing should be balanced out by the speed amps. And neither of those attacks expect maybe the flamethrower seems like they would be effective against someone faster, far more skilled, and far better at long term engagements. Also does crystal need ammo for his guns and weapons?Moritzva said:
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Speed amps are crossed out by teleporting backwards + danmaku (he'll have to spend a lot of time weaving around the attacks, making him a lot slower than if he was running straight forward).
As for skill, Gazef is skilled. Sure. But he has never faced gun users at all, ever, before, so his 'skill' isn't applicable there. Plus, Crystal has her own fair share of skill, living her life with the goal in mind that she will one day run out across a wasteland and mow down everything from giant mutants to interdimensional police, or die trying. And unlike Gazef, who usually either fights enemies that aren't going to nearly one-shot him, or does really bad against enemies possibly too strong/esoteric for him (The angels kinda cucked him, Ainz doesn't really count, but he hasn't really battled much against equals) so Crystal has much more of an edge in that department, especially with ranged skill.
Sure, Gazef knows he can get close. But can he, really? If Crystal is using teleportation and strafing backwards while firing a massage barrage of whatever-the-hell, Gazef can't really... advance, much. Sure, he could focus on dodging, and would do a decent enough job with speed amps, getting hit a limited number of times. But then, he's not getting closer to Crystal, while Crystal is getting farther away.
Effectively, you can't dodge, and run straight forward. You just can't.
As for skill, Gazef is skilled. Sure. But he has never faced gun users at all, ever, before, so his 'skill' isn't applicable there. Plus, Crystal has her own fair share of skill, living her life with the goal in mind that she will one day run out across a wasteland and mow down everything from giant mutants to interdimensional police, or die trying. And unlike Gazef, who usually either fights enemies that aren't going to nearly one-shot him, or does really bad against enemies possibly too strong/esoteric for him (The angels kinda cucked him, Ainz doesn't really count, but he hasn't really battled much against equals) so Crystal has much more of an edge in that department, especially with ranged skill.
Sure, Gazef knows he can get close. But can he, really? If Crystal is using teleportation and strafing backwards while firing a massage barrage of whatever-the-hell, Gazef can't really... advance, much. Sure, he could focus on dodging, and would do a decent enough job with speed amps, getting hit a limited number of times. But then, he's not getting closer to Crystal, while Crystal is getting farther away.
Effectively, you can't dodge, and run straight forward. You just can't.
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Gazef lost to the angels because they had an entire army of them attacking him at once, and they were constantly summoning more. It was only a matter of time before one of them got a hit in. Also, it's mentioned later that Gazef wouldn't have had so much of a problem if he had the Kingdom's treasures equipped, so I'm not sure that situation applies to your argument. Gazef has undoubtedly fought many magic users in his career, so he's not going to be out of his element here when it comes to dodging powerful projectiles, though the sheer amount of them will throw him off for a bit before he activates his buffs. Gazef is also the most skilled warrior in the entire kingdom, so I'd say his skill advantage is pretty substantial. He's fought and beaten many opponents who trained their entire lives. Sense Weakness will tell him to rush in, and he'll know that the fight will basically be over if he can get past Crystal's shots and get her before she teleports, or otherwise catch her off guard.
Gazef can blindside Crystal once he uses a Fourfold Slash of Light. If she gets used to his normal range, then she'll be surprised when he whips out his unique martial arts, and with Razor Edge's sheer power, she'll likely be one-shot or greviously wounded. With Gazef's multiple speed amps making him far faster than her, she will have to spend a lot of time on the defensive, teleporting away, which might leave her open to his Martial Arts. What's the delay time between Crystal's teleports? How far can she teleport?
Gazef can blindside Crystal once he uses a Fourfold Slash of Light. If she gets used to his normal range, then she'll be surprised when he whips out his unique martial arts, and with Razor Edge's sheer power, she'll likely be one-shot or greviously wounded. With Gazef's multiple speed amps making him far faster than her, she will have to spend a lot of time on the defensive, teleporting away, which might leave her open to his Martial Arts. What's the delay time between Crystal's teleports? How far can she teleport?
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Crystal has a metric fuckload of ammo for all of her weapons, and several mutations that actually recover ammo alongside more mutations that make it more likely to regenerate ammo. So no, stamina battle won't happen. Gazef will be dead several times over before Crystal runs out of ammo for literally all of her weapons.
As for range? Crystal regularly fights at far ranges, because yea, a lot of creatures whip out some dangerous attacks at close range. Big Bandit can whip out a charge and kill Crystal in a single hit, Buff Alligator fires a massive shell of shotgun blasts at mid-short range (similar to Fourfold Slash of Light) that can kill or almost kill instantly, Assassin rushes at Crystal when she isn't looking with speed and does lots of damage, Crystal Spiders and Rats jump at Crystal and rush her down with higher speeds similar to Gazef, Snowbots charge at massive speeds similar to Gazef and do tremendous damage upon contact, Lil' Hunter likes to leap on Crystal and unload a load of danmaku in melee so quickly it's hard to realize what's happening before you're dead... A Fourfold Slash of Light is literally nothing special, and speed amps mean jack against strafing and teleportation, I've said.
Her defensive is offensive. Her defense involves a shower of danmaku, which incidentally slows Gazef's advance, unless your argument is that he'll charge directly into the attacks.
Gazef lost to a swarm of attacks raining upon him? Hrmm. Also, there is no good danmaku in Overlord, with the exception of possibly a few high-level spells used by Ainz or similar casters, which Gazef sure as **** has not faced. So a lot of his skill won't be important. Meanwhile, Crystal has faced enemies who one-shot or do sizable damage with singular shots so much, she pretty much expects it. That's how Nuclear Throne is, honestly. The entire game is just a bunch of enemies that either can chunk you pretty easily, or can wipe you out nigh-instantly. I know - I've been killed off by a stray Snowbot more times than I'd like to admit.
The skill argument is dubious, but it doesn't even address the main points. So far, Gazef really just... can't get close. And even then, Crystal is very skilled herself, and being a literal rock means that regular human physiology doesn't apply to her, thus even if Razor's Edge has full dura negation properties, it might miss a lethal blow, which would trigger Stress into a x2 amp. And with Crystal at x2 firing and swinging speeds, Gazef has absolutely no chance of getting past her.
All in all? Crystal's defensive maneuvers, teleportations on a pretty low cooldown (which is game mechanics, similar to Plant's snare), skill literally meant to directly combat people like Gazef including people faster than her.
As for range? Crystal regularly fights at far ranges, because yea, a lot of creatures whip out some dangerous attacks at close range. Big Bandit can whip out a charge and kill Crystal in a single hit, Buff Alligator fires a massive shell of shotgun blasts at mid-short range (similar to Fourfold Slash of Light) that can kill or almost kill instantly, Assassin rushes at Crystal when she isn't looking with speed and does lots of damage, Crystal Spiders and Rats jump at Crystal and rush her down with higher speeds similar to Gazef, Snowbots charge at massive speeds similar to Gazef and do tremendous damage upon contact, Lil' Hunter likes to leap on Crystal and unload a load of danmaku in melee so quickly it's hard to realize what's happening before you're dead... A Fourfold Slash of Light is literally nothing special, and speed amps mean jack against strafing and teleportation, I've said.
Her defensive is offensive. Her defense involves a shower of danmaku, which incidentally slows Gazef's advance, unless your argument is that he'll charge directly into the attacks.
Gazef lost to a swarm of attacks raining upon him? Hrmm. Also, there is no good danmaku in Overlord, with the exception of possibly a few high-level spells used by Ainz or similar casters, which Gazef sure as **** has not faced. So a lot of his skill won't be important. Meanwhile, Crystal has faced enemies who one-shot or do sizable damage with singular shots so much, she pretty much expects it. That's how Nuclear Throne is, honestly. The entire game is just a bunch of enemies that either can chunk you pretty easily, or can wipe you out nigh-instantly. I know - I've been killed off by a stray Snowbot more times than I'd like to admit.
The skill argument is dubious, but it doesn't even address the main points. So far, Gazef really just... can't get close. And even then, Crystal is very skilled herself, and being a literal rock means that regular human physiology doesn't apply to her, thus even if Razor's Edge has full dura negation properties, it might miss a lethal blow, which would trigger Stress into a x2 amp. And with Crystal at x2 firing and swinging speeds, Gazef has absolutely no chance of getting past her.
All in all? Crystal's defensive maneuvers, teleportations on a pretty low cooldown (which is game mechanics, similar to Plant's snare), skill literally meant to directly combat people like Gazef including people faster than her.
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Oh, also, Crystal has a sizable AP advantage, upscaling from Melting, the least durable Mutant to the point of being one-shotted by most weapons, being able to tank Lil' Hunter's stomp, in which Crystal is by far the strongest mutant in the game. Lil' Hunter's stomp is 1.1755 tons, while Gazef scales to the high-end of 0.88 tons. You can't really even say he upscales, because it's the high-end of the calc, and Mand21 said it would be best if the top tiers (such as Gazef) scaled more directly to the high end.
So yea, Crystal's hits are going to hurt pretty bad. Nothing terrible, but with things such as Laser Brain plus the occasional homing bolts driven into his face? Yea, it's going to hurt pretty bad.
So yea, Crystal's hits are going to hurt pretty bad. Nothing terrible, but with things such as Laser Brain plus the occasional homing bolts driven into his face? Yea, it's going to hurt pretty bad.
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