8-A T.A.B.S???? (Let me cook)

[King_Dom470]

TABS scaling is 99% video game 1% story outside of the game's mechanics

Again by this logic why wouldn’t the meteor feat be usable?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Again by this logic why wouldn’t the meteor feat be usable?

still falls under the outlier argument

 

[King_Dom470]

still falls under the outlier argument

The units were 8-B as it was so no not really

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The units were 8-B as it was so no not really

the cheerleader did not have 8-B durability

 

[King_Dom470]

the cheerleader did not have 8-B durability

Through downscaling yes pretty much everyone should be 8-B

 

[King_Dom470]

The knight could survive a hit from Thor. And the knights can fight each other so they have 8-B ap aswell which means that any units that can survive their attacks (which is a lot) are also 8-B

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The low tiers absolutely cannot survive a hit from the knight
this is just fishy as hell when you consider that you could downscaling chain your way down so many one shots and still have them be 8-B scaling to the best usable feat.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The low tiers absolutely cannot survive a hit from the knight
this is just fishy as hell when you consider that you could downscaling chain your way down so many one shots and still have them be 8-B scaling to the best usable feat.

Exactly why everyone in FNAF World isn't Low 2-C

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Exactly why everyone in FNAF World isn't Low 2-C

Except there is an infinite gap between baseline low 2-C and peak low 2-C, so all downscaling chains are still valid (and also the game mechanics are much more canon in that game)
Try again goofball.

 

[King_Dom470]

The low tiers absolutely cannot survive a hit from the knight
this is just fishy as hell when you consider that you could downscaling chain your way down so many one shots and still have them be 8-B scaling to the best usable feat.

I know but the they can from units comparable to the knight like the monk

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I know but the they can from units comparable to the knight like the monk

Did you not read what I said tho
Also the monk literally does dogshit damage.

 

[King_Dom470]

Did you not read what I said tho
Also the monk literally does dogshit damage.

monk can hurt and beat the knight, the monk can damage peasants without killing them so the entire verse is 8-B hence it isn’t an outlier

 

[ZillertheBucko]

monk can hurt and beat the knight, the monk can damage peasants without killing them so the entire verse is 8-B hence it isn’t an outlier

If we use the in game stats you would see that the monk does an incredibly low amount of damage to the knight
see how much easier it would be to just go by damage value instead so we end up with a scaling that isn’t inflated to make hay balers and halflings city block level?
Either we end up with an outlier based scaling where everyone is 8-B (never getting accepted) or we let the fodder stay fodder and use alternate ways to make dark peasant and top tiers actually get upgraded.

 

[King_Dom470]

If we use the in game stats you would see that the monk does an incredibly low amount of damage to the knight
see how much easier it would be to just go by damage value instead so we end up with a scaling that isn’t inflated to make hay balers and halflings city block level?
Either we end up with an outlier based scaling where everyone is 8-B (never getting accepted) or we let the fodder stay fodder and use alternate ways to make dark peasant and top tiers actually get upgraded.

So to be clear the only problem here is that this feat is an outlier (Which I don't even agree with). Not game mechanics

 

[Mr. Bambu]

TABS scaling is 99% video game 1% story outside of the game's mechanics
this is not a situation where you can just say "video game doesn't count tho" when every powerscaling interaction in it happens when things are happening in gameplay
unless you're now gonna be that one productive fellow who decides "well there's no statement or canon feat of a dark peasant one shotting a bard, so we're gonna have to put him at unknown"
I'm fairly certain that it's a common idea on vsb that the more gameplay based a series' scaling is, the more game mechanics must be used for coherent scaling.
I literally do not see the point in having a verse where characters who are hundreds of times stronger than others just end up scaling to the exact same thing when there is such an easy solution to it.
If there's not going to be a diversity of feats then maybe go with the extremely obvious way of scaling the top tiers, rather than just sticking to the useless "indexing" of just saying at least x likely far higher

It's not even really about "story", I'm aware of what TABS is.

But you're suggesting, to my knowledge, using things like damage numbers to justify scaling, which in basically no context is acceptable, even here. Now, demonstrating that characters can endure that damage value is probably fine, which may be demonstrable via stats- if that's the case, it is... suboptimal, but acceptable.

Can you show me which characters are, by the numbers, dealing hundreds of times more damage than a peasant?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So to be clear the only problem here is that this feat is an outlier (Which I don't even agree with). Not game mechanics

No, that's still a problem.

The idea that this game is less dependent on story and more dependent on game mechanics is arguable and all, but that doesn't just mean like

"YEAH MAN IT DOESN'T MATTER DISREGARD ALL POLICY 8-A FOR WEAKEST UNITS "

My previous protests still apply. Scaling damage values vs durability values may have some merit to them, however, which would allow, for example, broader scaling of the Mammoth's 8-B rating.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay I'm going through the edits and reverting the rest of them now that I have time

@King_Dom470 you need to be extremely careful in the future when you're editing pages, I'm seeing mistakes like forgetting to remove the 9-B tiers (so the page has "Tier: 8-A9-B" and the template for both).

At this point I may attempt to just make a new CRT for the verse with @ZillertheBucko's suggestions in mind, if you guys could provide me with a list of calculations currently accepted for the verse, I'd like that.

 

[AThe1412]

Well, at least we can get some High tier Fodders to 9-A since there is a cannon calculation that was evaluated if I remember correctly (Nevermind, it's 9-B but still an upgrade).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just pass it all along to me and I'll look it over and give my thoughts on it.

 

[AThe1412]

I just looked through King_Dom's blog list to get these.

Big Morts a Big boy

vsbattles.fandom.com

TABS Black Hole

vsbattles.fandom.com

TABS explosions

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Can you show me which characters are, by the numbers, dealing hundreds of times more damage than a peasant?

well I guess I could start with the pike
peasant fist does at least 15 damage, and the pike does 1,500
additionally, there's the Ballista at 2,000, and the dark peasant's projectiles do over 3,000 per hit
I'll get a list of more later but I gotta go

 

[Mr. Bambu]

well I guess I could start with the pike
peasant fist does at least 15 damage, and the pike does 1,500
additionally, there's the Ballista at 2,000, and the dark peasant's projectiles do over 3,000 per hit
I'll get a list of more later but I gotta go

So the 8-B guys seem to hit about 100x the 9-B guys, which is actually much lower than would net 8-B. I may contest using the Pike as-is since it hails from the Legacy faction, which appears to just be a "here's a bunch of guys that used to be in the game, but we removed, but you can now **** around with them if you want" type deal.

The 9-B feat (which may also need re-examined, it's... a little questionable, since it seems to use a blast and argues that characters can survive the blast, but that's a whole other issue) comes to a value of 1,142,178 joules. So let's say the Pike is 100x that, this gives us 1.142e8 Joules. This is Small Building level.

Now, I can foresee this being mentioned: "Why can't we just downscale from higher units instead for a higher value??" That's sort of the problem with using numbers and game stats when they shouldn't be used, it leads to inconsistencies because stuff like this isn't normally linear. The damage difference between a peasant and, say, a mammoth, is clearly resulting in exponentially different attack potency ratings. Which makes scaling to game numbers wrong, more or less- but for now, presuming we will use it only linearly to upscale from the Peasant, I will bite my tongue and accept it.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I'm not sure what the debate turned, but sinse We seen to be talking about scaling I will just state the current scale(without the 8-A thing) THor has the 8-B feat, thor costs 2200, anyone that costs 2200 or more scales to that feat, that's how we are doing so far

TABS discussion thread has been debating how things should scale as we are aware that scaling trough durect numbers like life and damage is not that common

The first thing we decided was using thor lightning, who can survive It get's 8-B dura(the lightning is stronger them thor hammer that is what the feat comes from)

other thing that we troguh about was 1v1, who can win against a 8-B troop get's 8-B scaling(possible only AP)

That's where the scaling debate stoped

trough is aways to keep in mind that we always had plans to give every troop a 8-B rating at least when in large numbers

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not sure what the debate turned, but sinse We seen to be talking about scaling I will just state the current scale(without the 8-A thing) THor has the 8-B feat, thor costs 2200, anyone that costs 2200 or more scales to that feat, that's how we are doing so far

TABS discussion thread has been debating how things should scale as we are aware that scaling trough durect numbers like life and damage is not that common

The first thing we decided was using thor lightning, who can survive It get's 8-B dura(the lightning is stronger them thor hammer that is what the feat comes from)

other thing that we troguh about was 1v1, who can win against a 8-B troop get's 8-B scaling(possible only AP)

That's where the scaling debate stoped

trough is aways to keep in mind that we always had plans to give every troop a 8-B rating at least when in large numbers

What are you intending to say here? This sounds like you're arguing, for example, that 100 peasants should be 8-B because Thor will die to volume. This is not going to be an accepted thing, as it falls once again into the territory of game mechanics and chip damage.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am currently perusing the thread, and I still think Bambu is logically dialectic to me.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What are you intending to say here? This sounds like you're arguing, for example, that 100 peasants should be 8-B because Thor will die to volume. This is not going to be an accepted thing, as it falls once again into the territory of game mechanics and chip damage.

I will not coment as I'm getting tired of this thread, is that okay?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will not coment as I'm getting tired of this thread, is that okay?

If you are ceding that point for now, that's fine, yeah. I don't want people to be stressed out over the HeheHahaFunnyWarSimGame, that'd be silly. I just want you to understand that I'm just trying to do my due diligence here for a verse that, from where I sit, has a lot of worrying elements to its pages for now, elements that should be addressed.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

If you are ceding that point for now, that's fine, yeah. I don't want people to be stressed out over the HeheHahaFunnyWarSimGame, that'd be silly. I just want you to understand that I'm just trying to do my due diligence here for a verse that, from where I sit, has a lot of worrying elements to its pages for now, elements that should be addressed.

I didn't undertood anything

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I didn't undertood anything

He is trying to fix stuff that don't make sense for the verse to be properly indexed and not look badly put together.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He is trying to fix stuff that don't make sense for the verse to be properly indexed and not look badly put together.

Thank you for translating from Rambling to English, a shipment of golden swords and axes await you in Valhalla.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Thank you for translating from Rambling to English, a shipment of golden swords and axes await you in Valhalla.

Valhalla?? This life is enough work already. Give me a Tv and enough cake to make the lady from Matilda question her eyes. But thanks for the compliment that I can understand and speak English. Most who know me disagree on that subject though.

 

[King_Dom470]

Y'know what I feel like this kinda deserves more conversation:

Outlier:
Its not an outlier tho most characters can survive hits from stronger units so the entire verse all pretty much upscaled from 8-B anyways

Game Mechanics:
This verse should be a lot more lenient to stuff like this. The entire verse is game mechanics it has almost no story outside of little lore bits here and there the meteors not doing any actual damage as i've said before doesn’t really mean a whole lot. I know I keep coming back to Arthur but he has a lot of great examples: Survived a dynamite exploding underneath a wagon he was on (He literally was not damaged by this at all), Wasn’t actually damaged from the torture. In tlou Abby was undamaged by a fall that by all accounts should have done some damage, and same here but for ellie.

These are all examples of game mechanics yet they are all considered usable for their verses so why not for a verse like TABS which is basically all game mechanics. Point is that TABS should be even more forgivable based on the nature of the game.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Its not an outlier tho most characters can survive hits from stronger units so the entire verse all pretty much upscaled from 8-B anyways

You're right, we should make every single fodder enemy in every single video game ever scale to the strongest people so long as they aren't one-tapped instantly.

This verse should be a lot more lenient to stuff like this.

No, no it shouldn't. Not beyond reason, which is more than sufficient to disprove the asteroid.

The entire verse is game mechanics

Also untrue, to an extent, and certainly not to the point of "This super powerful rock just fell from the sky and did zero damage". I have no idea what angle you're trying to make here.

it has almost no story outside of little lore bits here and there

True, and irrelevant.

the meteors not doing any actual damage as i've said before doesn’t really mean a whole lot

This is, perhaps, the largest single dose of copium to blatant game mechanics I have ever heard in the history of this website. I've been on thousands of threads at this point, this is the deepest into bad takes I've seen. The fact that a basic slap does damage but this thing, which is deliberately not intended to be a damaging effect, does not do damage? It is incredibly relevant, such that you saying this leads me to believe that you would say this about literally anything if it served your purposes.

Survived a dynamite exploding underneath a wagon he was on

9-B, generously, in the real world, and cover does a lot.

Survived a dynamite exploding underneath a wagon he was on

Torture is not about high potency. It is about pain. Torture is mostly 10-C techniques.

In tlou Abby was undamaged by a fall that by all accounts should have done some damage

This is like 10 feet, with interim impact with the floor above. No.

same here but for ellie.

This one's dead for me but pal, I'll wager I'd find it to be wrong, too.

Now, I'd like to ask that you stop derailing with totally and completely unrelated feats from random franchises that have literally nothing to do with the discussion at hand. It is becoming extremely agitating to have to discuss whatever random tangents you feel like going down. How does a character from the Last of Us falling one (1) story correlate to a character in TABS taking 8-A levels of damage with 0 mechanical damage? How? The non-sequiturs serve only to confuse and to derail, so stop.

These are all examples of game mechanics

No, no they aren't. While these are not all baseline human feats, they are all feasibly survivable and most have an explanation aside from "game mechanics should be ignored!!!!!!!" If you don't know what the term "game mechanics" means insofar as we use it on this wiki, just say so.

Point is that TABS should be even more forgivable based on the nature of the game.

No.

 

[King_Dom470]

I was pointing out how they didn’t get damaged at all not that the damage should’ve killed them

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I was pointing out how they didn’t get damaged at all not that the damage should’ve killed them

Yes. Because the effect is not, from a design perspective, intended to be a damaging effect. It's peddled as a knockback. Whereas much more minor effects do harm them. So it's game mechanics.