7-C Tiersetter Tourney

[Agnaa]

erm wonder if I need to explain more or if he just forgot about this one

I'll just say that V1 can also parry non-physical and large-sized attacks, so if the fact that it can (probably) punch Kokken's swing and reflect it back at her with twice the force is too much, then uh, Gabriel is good enough to go ig ?

Oh right I forgot about that.

I'm not a huge fan of using top speedrun tech to determine how a video game character can act. I'm more wondering if there's any lore about this sort of thing. Do we know that the player character is expected to have died multiple times in the course of reaching the end? Are they treated as some untouchable god? Are we told literally nothing?

 

[noninho]

Most important concerns I have here are that she can one-shot with magic (possibly from kilometers away), and no-sell attacks with magic shields. Is there anything about the specifics of these which makes them not insta-wins for her?

If so, there's the more minor concerns of how exactly her Soul Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation, Teleportation, Portal Creation, and Time Stop work.

If you want to start close-range, she has martial arts, if her magic stomps/outranges and defensive magic; ig, yeah; about the magic, you can restrict the offensive magic and then ig she won't be no-selling him

Soul+Dark manips are how she uses her attacks, her offensive magics. She also uses those when portal'ling and defending herself. Her TP takes time and won't bring many helps here, unless to try and surprise her opponent. Her time stop aas only used in a stress situation where she couldn't properly control it, and while I'm sure she mastered and could use, I lack proof of such, so it won't be mattering

 

[Jerry59]

Oh right I forgot about that.

I'm not a huge fan of using top speedrun tech to determine how a video game character can act. I'm more wondering if there's any lore about this sort of thing. Do we know that the player character is expected to have died multiple times in the course of reaching the end? Are they treated as some untouchable god? Are we told literally nothing?

I remember that both WoG and in-game statements imply that most aspects of gameplay are indeed canon. Like the game’s style ranking and the machines being motivated to fight at the absolute highest level of skill to get their footage ranked highly are canon, w/V1 is pretty evidently the apex. The waves mode I showed you called Cybergrind is also mentioned canonically in the same entry
Also no V1 is definitely not treated as untouchable or undefeatable lol. It’s just a random machine among countless others, lucky enough not to die randomly somewhere in Hell and capable of reaching the deepest layers, that’s kind of what Ultrakill revolves around actually, absolutely no one is special aye

 

[Agnaa]

If you want to start close-range, she has martial arts, if her magic stomps/outranges and defensive magic; ig, yeah; about the magic, you can restrict the offensive magic and then ig she won't be no-selling him

Soul+Dark manips are how she uses her attacks, her offensive magics. She also uses those when portal'ling and defending herself. Her TP takes time and won't bring many helps here, unless to try and surprise her opponent. Her time stop aas only used in a stress situation where she couldn't properly control it, and while I'm sure she mastered and could use, I lack proof of such, so it won't be mattering

Yeah the point of the tiersetter is to not tinker around with stuff like that. But I think her Town level magic could be restricted. You could run that, but she'd be pretty fodder (just being a meh portaller/teleporter with weak punches and 9-A dura).

I remember that both WoG and in-game statements imply that most aspects of gameplay are indeed canon. Like the game’s style ranking and the machines being motivated to fight at the absolute highest level of skill to get their footage ranked highly are canon, w/V1 is pretty evidently the apex. The waves mode I showed you called Cybergrind is also mentioned canonically in the same entry
Also no V1 is definitely not treated as untouchable or undefeatable lol. It’s just a random machine among countless others, lucky enough not to die randomly somewhere in Hell and capable of reaching the deepest layers, that’s kind of what Ultrakill revolves around actually, absolutely no one is special aye

Bit confused by how it could simultaneously be the apex, and a random machine among countless others.

 

[Jerry59]

Bit confused by how it could simultaneously be the apex, and a random machine among countless others.

Yea some people also question how is that the case lol, but my guess is that V1 being the most skilled or overpowered mf doesn’t really matter, they can still die, and nothing would even change after that. What they did throughout the game is kind of pointless, sure they rampaged through Hell, but if they didn't exist then other machines would have done the same (It's been a while since I learned the lore so I might have missed smth)

 

[Agnaa]

Huh.

Well, anyway, I think V1's probably too good, seems like the type of fella to be able to consistently-enough parry, close in, recover, and get the kill without much issue.

I'll add Gabriel to the OP, and look into him further, in the next day or two.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Huh.

Well, anyway, I think V1's probably too good, seems like the type of fella to be able to consistently-enough parry, close in, recover, and get the kill without much issue.

I mean I'd be confident in Statesman winning a match against V1 lol

 

[Shadowslash125]

An update on Kamen Rider Blade and maybe a slight proposition for him too.

​

Blade​

As for his RPL, that is linked to his Fusion Rates, which is restricted. Meaning that it won't come into play.

I've been told that Blade's RPL is actually separate from his Fusion Rate, hence not having the higher rating. Even if he's able to grow in stats, it's not so much a staggering spike that his Fusion Rates rating had brought (which boosts his stats by 3x since he was able to fight an Undead as strong as his King Form). Meaning that it won't be restricted as it's not tied to any rating.

The Proposition​

As for the Fusion Rates itself, while I initially had it restricted, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about it, especially with the new additions.
On the one hand, the spike in power doesn't happen immediately, since it took him a while to get to that level during the fight. He would also only start to benefit it in a face-to-face fight, meaning that he's not going to grow while Kokken Sabi keeps slashing him with her range. On the other hand, his immortality would allow him to be more resilient (even with his weaknesses I've explained here) along with the fact that he would be the one with the highest AP/Dura (59.61KT), making him hit harder and take damage more easily. I completely understand if this remains restricted

Since you had a preference for the non-equal one, I'd use that submission of yours instead. If speed equal fills and submissions for non-equal don't catch up, I'll just run it as speed equal.

Since the tourney is most likely becoming speed equal soon and I assume it's one character entry per user, I'm unsure of who to pick to stay. Geats and Blade are pretty cool (yea I know, banger reasoning), and the only big difference is that Geat's profile is more updated and newer than Blade which still uses RPL rather than Accelerated Development (Battle) and his revision is still not going to happen till some time later. Other than that, it's a 50/50. Whichever choice is yours.

 

[noninho]

You could run that, but she'd be pretty fodder (just being a meh portaller/teleporter with weak punches and 9-A dura).

What? She is L7C both in AP and Dura

 

[Jerry59]

I mean I'd be confident in Statesman winning a match against V1 lol

maybe but like, the actual problem here is that his gurl cannot beat V1

 

[Shadowslash125]

Bump

 

[Agnaa]

Had reports and Life to deal with, hopping back to this now.

I mean I'd be confident in Statesman winning a match against V1 lol

Mayhaps, the tiersetter tries to look for a certain kind of character in the tier. First two levels of the meta are getting a character who would lose to the tiersetter but autowin against other characters (here that'd be, like, 100m radius passive instakill), second level of the meta is getting a character similar to the tiersetter to beat those picks.

Although this does kinda remind me of something I neglected....

@DontTalkDT Would Waltraute's Spear be pretty dodgeable for someone with comparable speed? Especially if it's used from quite a distance (i.e. SBA starting range of 4km). Just checking it's not something that could spawn right on the target.

An update on Kamen Rider Blade and maybe a slight proposition for him too.

​

Blade​

I've been told that Blade's RPL is actually separate from his Fusion Rate, hence not having the higher rating. Even if he's able to grow in stats, it's not so much a staggering spike that his Fusion Rates rating had brought (which boosts his stats by 3x since he was able to fight an Undead as strong as his King Form). Meaning that it won't be restricted as it's not tied to any rating.

The Proposition​

As for the Fusion Rates itself, while I initially had it restricted, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about it, especially with the new additions.
On the one hand, the spike in power doesn't happen immediately, since it took him a while to get to that level during the fight. He would also only start to benefit it in a face-to-face fight, meaning that he's not going to grow while Kokken Sabi keeps slashing him with her range. On the other hand, his immortality would allow him to be more resilient (even with his weaknesses I've explained here) along with the fact that he would be the one with the highest AP/Dura (59.61KT), making him hit harder and take damage more easily. I completely understand if this remains restricted


Since the tourney is most likely becoming speed equal soon and I assume it's one character entry per user, I'm unsure of who to pick to stay. Geats and Blade are pretty cool (yea I know, banger reasoning), and the only big difference is that Geat's profile is more updated and newer than Blade which still uses RPL rather than Accelerated Development (Battle) and his revision is still not going to happen till some time later. Other than that, it's a 50/50. Whichever choice is yours.

RPL seems fine if it's relatively minor like that.

I'll have a look into Fusion Rates in my next big investigation post to see what I think.

What? She is L7C both in AP and Dura

Oh lol, I just misread it as "Small Building".

Yeah sure, seems good to stay.

 

[Agnaa]

Definitely since Garou is a melee only fighter that relies only on hand to hand combat to fight while Kokken can start attacking from kilometers away before Garoi has a chance.

Garou seems like he'd probably be too strong:

1. Analytical Prediction seems like it could let him easily dodge all ranged attacks.
2. Power Mimicry seems like it could plausibly let him recreate Kokken's gales.
3. Reactive Evolution, Statistics Amplification, and Rage Power all seem like they could get him at least a ~60% boost before he dies, which would make him essentially invulnerable, able to just chase Kokken down and whack her.

All of those would have to be untrue for him to get in.

then uh, Gabriel is good enough to go ig ?

His Teleportation seems like it would bridge the gap instantly, where his 4x stat advantage, effectively undodgeable explosive/light attacks, speed amp, and additional weapons would make it unreasonable for him to ever lose.

An update on Kamen Rider Blade and maybe a slight proposition for him too.

​

Blade​

I've been told that Blade's RPL is actually separate from his Fusion Rate, hence not having the higher rating. Even if he's able to grow in stats, it's not so much a staggering spike that his Fusion Rates rating had brought (which boosts his stats by 3x since he was able to fight an Undead as strong as his King Form). Meaning that it won't be restricted as it's not tied to any rating.

The Proposition​

As for the Fusion Rates itself, while I initially had it restricted, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about it, especially with the new additions.
On the one hand, the spike in power doesn't happen immediately, since it took him a while to get to that level during the fight. He would also only start to benefit it in a face-to-face fight, meaning that he's not going to grow while Kokken Sabi keeps slashing him with her range. On the other hand, his immortality would allow him to be more resilient (even with his weaknesses I've explained here) along with the fact that he would be the one with the highest AP/Dura (59.61KT), making him hit harder and take damage more easily. I completely understand if this remains restricted


Since the tourney is most likely becoming speed equal soon and I assume it's one character entry per user, I'm unsure of who to pick to stay. Geats and Blade are pretty cool (yea I know, banger reasoning), and the only big difference is that Geat's profile is more updated and newer than Blade which still uses RPL rather than Accelerated Development (Battle) and his revision is still not going to happen till some time later. Other than that, it's a 50/50. Whichever choice is yours.

The profile does not at all explain how Fusion Rates work, so I'm just gonna go off of what you say.

How long does it take for Fusion Rates to activate, once they get face-to-face?

How many hits do you think it'd take for Blade to get knocked out from someone ~1/3rd his strength?

I'm kinda struggling with how to conceive of this. The mismatch between Kokken's travel and combat speed means that, even with speed equal, she'd be able to get closed on relatively easily, but Blade would still need to dodge while closing in or he'd probably get blasted down. There'd need to be a reasonable chance of him getting KO'd during that charge, or a decent amount of time before Rates activates, for it to not make it a bit much.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT Would Waltraute's Spear be pretty dodgeable for someone with comparable speed? Especially if it's used from quite a distance (i.e. SBA starting range of 4km). Just checking it's not something that could spawn right on the target.

No, it doesn't spawn right on target. As it stands, its speed would be around the same ballpark as her own. She can dodge spears like her own, so others shouldn't be completely incapable either.

Also FYI my calc got approved, so she will get Town level+ stats in a bit. Given her lack of durability I think she still would be balanced, though.

 

[Agnaa]

No, it doesn't spawn right on target. As it stands, its speed would be around the same ballpark as her own. She can dodge spears like her own, so others shouldn't be completely incapable either.

Also FYI my calc got approved, so she will get Town level+ stats in a bit. Given her lack of durability I think she still would be balanced, though.

How soft would you argue her durability to be? Would Kokken need multiple hits to take her down, while Waltraute would only need one hit to take out Kokken, or do you think they'd both be able to one-shot each other?

 

[DontTalkDT]

How soft would you argue her durability to be? Would Kokken need multiple hits to take her down, while Waltraute would only need one hit to take out Kokken, or do you think they'd both be able to one-shot each other?

That's debatable. We know her own value would be enough to oneshot her. Beyond that she has just ballpark scaling.
Ultimately, I can't decide what other people would argue, but I'm fine with saying they can just barely oneshot each other.

 

[Agnaa]

That's debatable. We know her own value would be enough to oneshot her. Beyond that she has just ballpark scaling.
Ultimately, I can't decide what other people would argue, but I'm fine with saying they can just barely oneshot each other.

What's the other scaling that'd be relevant? I wanna anticipate the sorta arguments that'd come up, I'd rather not DQ her after it starts.

Kokken has tangible disadvantages with lower travel speed and lower range, letting Waltraute keep her distance at the risk of a low hit rate. Kokken does have some ability to create AoE for harder-to-dodge attacks, and has actual stamina feats. But if Waltraute can take more than a few hits, she could probably consistently close in, tank it, and take Kokken out.

Speaking that out, maybe Waltraute's standard tactics could change whether she has a solid chance of losing.

 

[DontTalkDT]

What's the other scaling that'd be relevant? I wanna anticipate the sorta arguments that'd come up, I'd rather not DQ her after it starts.

You can take a look here.

Speaking that out, maybe Waltraute's standard tactics could change whether she has a solid chance of losing.

I don't recall her starting a fight at that much distance in the novel. If we take her sisters for measure (as they share the same essence) I would guess launching lightning spears from a distance to cover herself while closing in would be her thing. She did a similar thing in the crossover novel (written by the same author).

 

[Agnaa]

Guess I'll wait for that thread to be done, then.

 

[Jerry59]

His Teleportation seems like it would bridge the gap instantly, where his 4x stat advantage, effectively undodgeable explosive/light attacks, speed amp, and additional weapons would make it unreasonable for him to ever lose.

Eh I'm pretty sure the gap is only around 2x. Also, only his thrown light lances are explosive, and they are definitely dodgeable. His speed amp comes from Rage, which isn’t actually that good, he was just dashing around more or smth. Since SBA assumes his strongest version (the one with 24 hours left before he dies), he will use his two swords and fight at close range quite a lot and i mean i'm pretty confident that his ass won't match Kokken's skill at all lol

And if that’s still too much (somehow), Minos should still be viable. Sure he has those explosive kicks, but only his kicks and slams cause these, and like Gabe he gets kind of skillstomped by Kokken, maybe even more so since he uses fists. His wincons are just an AP advantage, homing snakes, and dropkicks with explosions, while he also gets outskilled in what he does most of the time. Sounds like he should work tbh
(Idk, a roll of paper is enough to be a weapon for her is kind of wild to me)