7-A Brackets Round 9

[Dargoo_Faust]

It's one of his later keys.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Again, just want to point out that a close companion of HLW and someone who knows him very well said this about his original power.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, if you're using Rank 1, it's only fair to use Mega Lucario.

 

[FateAlbane]

I agree that if the stronger version is used, should be so for both fighters.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Okay, Mega Lucario is used, then.

Start the debate plz

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's one of his later keys.

Technically speaking, it's his earliest key that we see in story.

Anyway, his health won't go down as long as he's wearing that armour, so he'll just keep getting up no matter what Lucario throws at him.

What's mega lucario's AP?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

What's mega lucario's AP?

Unless I'm mistaken, >>> fodderizing 531 megaton characters.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok well

Seeing as we got that statement of his current power being less than 10% of his Rank 1 power (though that's probably taking into sheer versatility and item abilities), that puts him at pretty much the end of mountain level. Maybe a little into High 7-A. >>>> Fodderising 531 megatons is also pretty good, so I'm going to assume they're both at the end of mountain level

How are we on boosts then? You said abilities that push people past the tier limit would be restricted.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Megas in turn destroy their base forms. The raw energy of Mega Evolution is enough to blow out Tyranitar's back. Literally. Tyranitar's back is ripped open from the mere energy. And Mega Lucario's ability is Adaptability, which passively doubles the power of all of its Fighting and Steel type moves.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Stat amps are fine.

You're the expert on HLW, here's the amps Lucario has acess to:

Passive Boosts

• Steadfast: Lucario, if made to flinch, has its speed boosted (It has flinch resistence anyways so this is useless)
• Justified: Lucario's hidden ability. If hit with a dark attack, its attack increases.
• Adaptability: The ability of Mega Lucario. Moves that have the same type of Lucario do double damage.
• Type-Advantage Master: Lucario's critical hit rate skyrockets if attacking one with a type disadvantage.
• Practice Swinger: If Lucario misses an attack, the power of its next attack is boosted due to a temporary boost in physical and special attack.
• Aggressor: Lucario becomes very aggressive, which raises its attack and special attack, but lowers its defense and special defense.

Active Boosts

• Nasty Plot: Lucario thinks evil thoughts, which raises its special attack.
• Laser Focus: Lucario focuses up, guaranteeing the next hit to be a critical one. Critical hits bypass physical and special defense buffs.
• Metal Claw: Lucario slashes the opponent with claws of iron. This has a chance to raise attack.
• Power-Up Punch: Lucario gathers energy in its fist and hits the opponent, raising its attack in the process.
• Swords Dance: Lucario does a fighting dance that sharply increases attack.
• Work Up: Lucario riles itself up, raising both, its attack and its special attack.
• Calm Mind: Lucario focuses itself, raising its two special stats.
• Agility: Lucario relaxes and lightens its body, which sharply increases its speed.
• Iron Defense: Lucario hardens its body like it was iron, sharply increasing its defense.

This doesn't include his stat reductions, which there are many of as well.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He's got this

• Lucky Coin: Hardcore Leveling Warrior flips a coin. Heads, he significantly increases a random stat (e.g. strength, magical power). Tails, nothing happens, he gets a debuff, or the enemy gets the buff. He can also give an ally the coin to use once he has manifested it. Dark's Deja Vu spell was unable to see the future when this coin was involved, as the future constantly changed. At higher levels, multiple coins can be used at once. However, the more coins he uses at once, the faster the buff wears off. The lucky coin can also increase his accuracy stat to the point that the System decrees his attacks undodgeable - essentially he can increase his accuracy to the point that the system controlling reality declares his attack is undodgeable.

Note that he's supernaturally lucky enough to pretty much always get the stat he needs, and the buff from one coin was enough to get him from 9-C to 9-A and let him move faster than people who had previously been keeping up with him can percieve.

He's also got

• Strength & Regenerationn X 77: when Lucky Coin is thrown from the Hidden Gate, it instead increases the user's power and Regenerationn 77 times over.

And it's true / upgraded / full version

• Nightmarization 50%: Grants the power of Nightmarization, increases Hardcore Leveling Warrior's stats significantly and allows his attacks to ignore defenses.

Though given he's only 50% nightmarized instead of all the way, he can probably only ignore half of defenses.

And he's got these things

• Master's Instinct: A passive skill that detects extraordinary speed or spell power using a hidden stat called Instinct, allowing Hardcore Leveling Warrior to detect and dodge attacks that break the attack speed limit.
• Hero's Body: Consumes own HP to break the range limit of actions. Can only be used with strength stat over 999.

Master's Instinct is basically precog / perception speed boost, Hero's Body lets him translate that perception speed boost to actual speed. Given that he's wearing the armour, it shouldn't cost him any health to use.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Lucario actually has skills that outright nope precognition.

• Feint: Lucario hits the opponent, getting past barriers like Protect and precognition like Detect.

He also has some precognition:

• Detect: Lucario predicts an attack coming, and dodges it. This move lowers in succession unless another move is used in between.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That's only one ability though, and it's not precognition like seeing the future, it's like your perception speeds are brought up to match the speed of an attack you normally couldn't see coming and you can guess what it's trajectory is.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

it's like your perception speeds are brought up to match the speed of an attack you normally couldn't see coming and you can guess what it's trajectory is.

That's legit how Detect, the skill that Feint ignores, works to a T.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also,

• Copycat: Lucario uses the last move used by the opponent.

Lucario could feasibly use all the skills you just mentioned.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There's also Me First. Combine that with mind reading and Lucario just does everything HLW does before he does.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That's not how the pokemon wiki page describes Detect. It just says "allows the user to evade all attacks"

Also slightly unrelated to the immediate topic, but I want to bring up that Pokemon is a game that we treat as real while HCLW is a game where game mechanics are a legit thing. If pokemon says 'you evade all attacks', we treat it as just a buff to evasion abilities or something. If the System in HCLW says 'you evade all attacks', that means it has just become a law coded into reality that you're going to evade all attacks.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Also,

• Copycat: Lucario uses the last move used by the opponent.

Lucario could feasibly use all the skills you just mentioned.

Lucky Three: Three Cards: A set of cards representing various abilities Hardcore Leveling Warrior has seen are presented to Hardcore Leveling Warrior. He may pick three. Each card acts as a consumable item that allows him to use the corresponding skill.

Right back at you. Everything Lucario does, HCLW could do too.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Only three skills though, and there's no telling that he'll use Lucario's skills and not say, those of people from his own verse that he's seen.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

There's also Me First. Combine that with mind reading and Lucario just does everything HLW does before he does.

That might work in a game's turn based combat system, but in an actual fight with speed equalised, thoe abilities are more likely to go off at the same time. Just because the description says "uses it prior to the opponent's execution" doesn't mean that in a fight without pokemon's turn system it's going to happen. In fact, if Lucario started off with Me First in this fight, he'd end up getting hit by HCLW's attack, because in the time it takes for Lucario to use Me First, Hardcore has already thrown a moonlight slash at him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

>they can do everything the other can do


this is going to be a battle of "no u", isn't it

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Only three skills though, and there's no telling that he'll use Lucario's skills and not say, those of people from his own verse that he's seen.

He could just keep using the skill and get another three abilities of Lucario. Meanwhile, Lucario is stuck using either the last, or the next skill HCLW is about to use. So really, HCLW is the one with more of Lucario's abilities.

Also, using skill from his own verse instead of Lucario's isn't an advantage for Lucario. Skills in HCLW can be a lot more broken, if he's using those, Lucario's going to be in trouble.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Except it works just like that in the not turn based manga.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Except it works just like that in the not turn based manga.

Speed isn't equal there. Here, in the time it takes for Lucario to read his mind and decide to use his next abilities, HCLW has used that ability.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Speed isn't equal there. Here, in the time it takes for Lucario to read his mind and decide to use his next abilities, HCLW has used that ability.

The move was used by Lickilicky, one of the slower Pokemon, against Honchkrow, a relatively fast Pokemon. Me First allows the Pokemon in question to steal the move before the person commits to using it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok

But the difference there is that HCLW's attacks can actually damage Lucario, while Lucario's copied abilities won't even scratch HCLW so long as he's got that armour.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Invulnerability only holds up so far. Lucario's hitting with that much power, the armor's getting busted.

Also, Lucario hits first. It kinda sends HLW back.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Armor's indestructible, and this is going by the System, meaning reality itself is saying this armour is not getting busted.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Armor's indestructible, and this is going by the System, meaning reality itself is saying this armour is not getting busted.

NLF. Goku attacks that armor for example, it's shattering.

Also, how does this work under a neutral universe? Game mechanics may become well...game mechanics under neutral.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I could call it defensive Information Manipulation or Law Manipulation seeing as in Lucid Adventure game mechanics are an actual thing, but I'll use a better example.

Zero, who created the planet/universe of Lucid Adventure, and who's death began causing the entire world to start self-destructing, smacked HCLW around for a while. The Armour didn't break.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Then either HCLW has planetary/universal durability, it's not for striking strength, or it was an outlier. Furthermore, Game Mechanics, even if canon, have to be translated well into VSBW, Sans being a prime example.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Nah, he was getting bruised and being thrown around.

He just wouldn't die from it because as long as he wore the armour his health wouldn't go down. Which is invulnerability from a world where game mechanics are a legit thing, not durability.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Indestructibility can actually be proved as an ability using universal mechanics like that. It just only functions on a physical scale.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lucario still reads HLW's mind and yeets off that armor, worst comes to worst. That or takes Thanos's advice and goes for the head. And if Lucario can't do anything else, he'll seal. Last resort and out of character, but an eventuality.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Going for the head would do... what though? He's still not going to die from it. His healthbar isn't going down.

Also Zero only managed to take off the armour by abusing admin privledges and controlling the System. I don't think Lucario is going to be getting the armour off like that. And if he tries getting close to take it off, boom, hellfire.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What's healthbars gotta do with it? If he was getting bruised with the armor, he can get headshot with the armor.

Class 100 lifting strength, dude.

These are some serious NLFs, tbh. Like, you could put him against the entire Dragon Ball cast minus the hax ones and just walk through everything from what you're saying.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He's a game character. Game character phsyiology and what not. He has a healthbar, and as long as it doesn't hit zero, he's still going to up and ready to fight.

Seeing as Broly doesn't have any way around Low 2-C reality putting down rules of reality that say HCLW's health isn't going down...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It also shouldn't be too hard to get him out of his boots or gauntlets, even if he has to resort to cutting off the limbs. And Mega Lucario is heartless enough to do that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Class 100 lifting strength, dude.

You saying Lucario could just pull the armour off him? Not how it works. You can't just pull equipment off someone in HCLW (the series), hence why Zero had to resort to admin privledges to remove his armour. He later comes across someone who's wearing his boots and gloves and he has to get the guy to willingly unequip them and hand them over, because he can't just pull the guys feet out of them, even once he's cut the guy's legs off just below the kneecaps and by real life laws of physics should just be able to slide the guys legs out.