Ajimu and Iihiko in versus matches

[Paul_Frank]

So why exactly are they not allowed in matches it says it's due to uncertainty with the scaling of the two but

I don't understand where the problems come from though

Iihiko is stronger than Ajimu based on his showings and her statements he's also stronger than everyone else he fought, he wasn't defeated by a weaker character he beat himself(he literally punched himself out of shiranui)

Ajimu also never lost to anyone in the series besides iihiko,you could argue that kumagawa sealing her counts as being beaten but that's iffy as kumagawa even states that the last seal was held on by her. In the jet black wedding arc she effortlessly stomps all of the doubles while playing with them Kumagawa then asks Medaka if she thought she could win to which she responds that she wouldn't stand a chance. Being sealed by momo also doesn't count as being beaten by a weaker character as Kumagawa states she was staying sealed by choice and could break out if she wanted to

The closest either character came to losing to a weaker character was when iihiko's first shown body (which was stated to be old and weakened) was beaten by end god mode medaka using a better kurokami phantom and hitting him in the back after this he possesses shiranui and then stops her kurokami phantom and destroys the hospital accidentally, stating after that this body is stronger than the previous one

A potential rating for them could take into account the fact that Ajimu is portrayed as significantly stronger than medaka at every point in the series besides possibly end god mode kurokami phantom Ajimu also tanked the big bang as she says she waited for the universe to come into existence,the panel shows the big bang iirc Iihiko of course scales higher than her to the point she lost against him constantly in the last and states she can hold him off for 15 seconds


I don't really see where the scaling issues come from if anyone wants to explain it that would be nice

 

[Paul_Frank]

Bump

 

[The_Causality]

Ajimu already has a 4-B feat, lowballing her to this could be cool (even if i doubt to see this)

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yeah she can either be lowballing to that or get a tier based on the fact she survived the big bang and iihiko would just scale above her


I don't really care what the tier is I just want her and iihiko to be usable in matches

 

[Paul_Frank]

The plan is if no one can really find any inconsistencies with ajimu we can get her a solid tier or an at least rating and scale iihiko off that so they can be used

So basically if no one can show where the inconsistencies are then I'll make a crt to get her and iihiko ratings instead of unknown

 

[Antvasima]

They will remain unknown. Najimi has abilities such as "become God" and "transcend dimensions", but was still defeated by a rubber band due to plot convenience, and has no actual feats, just walls of text. She is far too inconsistent to rate properly, and the star-busting feat was just in a dream.

Similarly, except for defeating Najimi, Iihiko's feats are of an outwardly low scale.

 

[GLHF22]

Because they are a walking NLF

 

[The_Causality]

@Ant The dream is an entire And Tangible world tho, you can even train himself and became stronger inside those dreams + the rubber which killed Ajimu is due to Lihiko's power, not just because of the plot.

Attribuate a tier 4 for ajimu change almost nothing in the consistency, the only one able to kill her is Lihiko with hax so he doesn't scale to this anyway. but OP's suggestion is just allow them in battle, nothing less, nothing more.

 

[Antvasima]

She is likely much higher than tier 4, but we do not know how much higher, and she lost to an enormously weaker character as a metafictional satire of comparatively much weaker protagonists doing the same to their much stronger antagonists in general.

I am tired of this topic. It keeps repeating itself year in and year out.

 

[The_Causality]

You know that the wiki treats this Kind of situations as PIS? I don't bother if we can give a ranting for Najimi but I have the feeling that we don't treat her as the other characters of the wiki, if she is potentially much stronger, we just put a higher on her profile even if we lowball her as a High 4-C or 4-B, if she has been defeated like that and Lihiko by Medaka, this situation is a PIS, no need to scale him with Ajimu when he defeated her with Hax (and also plot)

 

[Antvasima]

We cannot scale her to 4-C based on what a figment she planted in Kumagawa's mind did in a dream.

 

[The_Causality]

The feat is easily scalable since this isn't a "dream" but a tangible world when you have all of your strengths and can be hurt and even training inside, there is enough to treat this world as a world without the dream excuse.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, it is just a figment created by her, we do not know if this dream world has genuine real life stars within it, and given the sheer inconsistency and vague nature of the character (claims of omnipotence, being God, and turning higher-dimensional, for example), I will never agree with giving her anything other than an unknown rating, no matter how much people bother me about it.

 

[Agnaa]

@Ant The dream is an entire And Tangible world tho, you can even train himself and became stronger inside those dreams + the rubber which killed Ajimu is due to Lihiko's power, not just because of the plot.

But it's also the fact that it's a recording played inside a dream world that makes the feat doubtful.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Ignoring the 4-C feat for a bit

She can be scaled off of surviving the big bang or for an ultra low ball off of stomping the doubles in the jet black wedding

As for her quadrillion skills we can just use the 814 she's shown or explained

Iihiko's only real feats are 1 shotting ajimu and manhandling the rest of the cast because he was in like a dozen chapters also how is he weaker than her he's stated stronger shown to be able to kill her with ease and nothing really contradicts this in the series

 

[Antvasima]

His feats are of a strictly earthbound scale, and he can be inconvenienced by getting hit by a car. Najimi's scale was established to be far beyond that.

As typical for this manga, she was defeated as a parody of these types of plot conveniences in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

We really need a rule against this topic if there is none already. I am extremely sick and tired of having to repeat myself over and over and over in these threads.

 

[GLHF22]

^ Thats the greatest reason why they are not allowed in the VSThread

 

[The_Causality]

@Agnaa Yeah, that's true, but even with that, that doesn't change the fact that the world is "real" and the feat she made in this

@Ant I'am strongly disagree with a rule, the reason of her Unknown ranting can be justified by "she is much stronger than we though but plot", this can be resolved as PIS, she has two feat, surviving to the Big bang and the star busting, there is no anti feat, the only one is lihiko but we can justify this as PIS as we do this to many characters in the wiki, being a "metafictional parody" isn't even true and not a good reason.

The only things we can ignore is Ajimu's statemates (God, Omni ect..), she has feats at this point, we can give her a tier without suffering of anythings, if she is much higher, a likely much higher can be possible in her profile (With that, we can avoid the 1-A BS). I don't know why we treat ajimu like this when all characters in the wiki is treated normally.

 

[GLHF22]

There is a lot CRT about ajimu tier and thats how she got unknown tier

 

[GLHF22]

I don't know why we treat ajimu like this when all characters in the wiki is treated normally.

Actually not ajimu but almost all Medaka box character listed unknown, if so then the problem is on the verse not the rule.

 

[Antvasima]

I have already explained why we won't accept the dream feat.

Virtually everything in Medaka Box has a satirical subtext about either society, mindsets, dualities, archetypes, fictional story conveniences, and the people who write them. It is definitely a metafictional parody manga, although that is not all that is is. Personally I consider it brilliant in terms of analysis, with the story itself basically irrelevant in comparison.

I do not remember Najimi withstanding the big bang. Can you find the scan?

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

I agree with Antvasima here. If I had to summarize why they can't be allowed, would it be accurate to say that they are far too inconsistent to have a fair and accurate match?

By the way there is nothing preventing users from using them in the fun and games, it just seems like there's really no way to objectively determine whether they would win or lose and as such it is best if they remain off of true battles, as the point of them is to declare who would win (and we obviously can't know with this level of inconsistency).

 

[The_Causality]

There is a lot CRT about ajimu tier and thats how she got unknown tier

The Unknown rant has been accepted because most of the CRT involved an Upgrade of Ajimu in Tier 1/0 via some statemate like "Transcending dimension", called "omnipotent" ect.. which are clearly BS

In our case, i suggest a Lower tier via the feat she demonstrated and not the statemate, it's a much better suggestion. + the Unknown is about All Fiction which can erase the "world" but we don't know if we treat this (and far too inconsistent for the characters).

@Ant It's here

 

[Antvasima]

Nothing was stated about regarding if she was in the center of the big bang event, or just observed it in an immaterial state or from another plane of existence.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

https://ibb.co/ddVVTy this is a weird color version I found that another website uses to justify her universe+ ap. It doesn't specifically show any feat though just her talking about existing before the universe did. She didn't specifically tank a big bang she just witnessed it.

 

[The_Causality]

We use the most logical solution, that how consist Occam's razor

 

[Antvasima]

@Blackcurrant91

That is my take as well.

Should we close this thread now?

 

[Antvasima]

@TC

There is no most logical solution for a character with trillions of superpowers.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Based on the skills that were explained the only thing she could have done is tank it

 

[Blackcurrant91]

not really, if she is omni-present and can exist outside of time and space, what makes you think she would need to tank a big bang to observe it? if anything it's extremely unlikely she tanked it directly considering her abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

Really? She couldn't, for example, have turned into an immaterial idea, as I think one of her stated powers was? Or used a host of other powers that we do not know about?

Look, I am extremely overworked and tired in general, and cannot accept changes that are based on pure speculation. If it was not stated that she withstood the big bang, or what the nature of that big bang was, a space-time expansion or explosion, we cannot assume anything.

All that you can succeed in doing here is waste lots of time and energy that I do not have available, and make me increasingly annoyed and tired. I have no interest in repeating myself over and over.

 

[The_Causality]

@Ant Speculation? you are the one who make speculation as you said that she can turn into immaterial without any proof of it, the fact that she used another of all of her power for avoid it it's a speculation too

@Black her Omnipresence is inside human's dream, she can exist outside time and space because of the fact she existed befopre the big bang and again, assuming she avoided it with an abilities is more speculative thatn just tank it.

Anyway, i'm done here, i don't want to debate 10 hours for that.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

You literally just said, she can exist outside of time and space because she existed before time and space?

 

[Antvasima]

Again, we have not been told that she withstood the event, or how the big bang was portrayed in this verse, as an explosion, or as a space-time expansion, as in reality. And in combination, we do know that she can turn into an immaterial idea. The situation is far too uncertain to use it as a foundation.

I will close this now. I don't want another 14-15 hour work shift taking care of the wiki today. You are explicitly forbidden from ever arguing about this topic again, as it has been done to death at least a dozen times at this point.