[5-0-0] Whatever's clever, the master foe, all bad guys heard of, nar' a villain know - 2022 Batman vs Light Yagami

[Nonynho]

-Batman has Gotham's situation estabilized (lol what a dream) and starts acting on november 15, 2004, right when Light starts acting as L
-Light knew that he was an american vigilante (Limited Prior Knowledge)
-Following the japanese movies TL, if Light sees himself too cornered, he ends his life (obviously Batsy sees this as an L)

Batsy- @Nonynho, @XxZetsuxX, @Rex_Eckles, @Mickey1940, @Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh

Kira-

Incon-

 

[Nonynho]

A very important detail for us to debate here is: Writing "Batman" will work?

It's quite an important debate in the comics if he's truly Batman and "Bruce Wayne"'s just the disguise or if it's the other way around, so it is not an impossibility for Kira to win in a rageful moment by writing "Batman" on the notebook

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I would like to start by saying that Batman unironically is like infinite layers into no concept of diff above kira in pretty much everything (even in his best categories like manipulation, foresight, planning and social intel)

Given his busted psycho-analysis from the profile who is also far above the likes of L, he would immediately find Kira's location, motivations, ideals and pretty much everything under the sun LOL

Batman afaik is way too straight forward with his cases, he will immediately grab Light and put him in the interrogation room and any attempt at ending his life will be shutdown immeadiately by Batman

 

[XxZetsuxX]

A very important detail for us to debate here is: Writing "Batman" will work?

It's quite an important debate in the comics if he's truly Batman and "Bruce Wayne"'s just the disguise or if it's the other way around, so it is not an impossibility for Kira to win in a rageful moment by writing "Batman" on the notebook

That won't work, batman is just his hero name

Death note only works with real names

 

[Nonynho]

I would like to start by saying that Batman unironically is like infinite layers into no concept of diff above kira in pretty much everything (even in his best categories like manipulation, foresight, planning and social intel)

Given his busted psycho-analysis from the profile who is also far above the likes of L, he would immediately find Kira's location, motivations, ideals and pretty much everything under the sun LOL

Batman afaik is way too straight forward with his cases, he will immediately grab Light and put him in the interrogation room and any attempt at ending his life will be shutdown immeadiately by Batman

The point is

Light is a Genius by our standards and could outplay L, a E-Genius by our standards
And L has way more detailing on how he operates in his intelligence section, so we gotta get more specific on how will Batsy operate with the little evidence he has

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The point is

Light is a Genius by our standards and could outplay L, a E-Genius by our standards
And L has way more detailing on how he operates in his intelligence section, so we gotta get more specific on how will Batsy operate with the little evidence he has

That is 50-50 correct and incorrect

L is E.G because he meets the criteria of;

• Predicting the future with sheer calcs
• And POSSIBLY knowledge in alot of fields (above PHD level i would assume)

That's just it

in a outsmarting scenario, he would get no diffed by someone who completely obliterates him in manipulation, deception, planning, emotional intelligence, strategy and countering

VSBattle IQ definition is only through IQ and narrative

 

[Nonynho]

Well, IQ has become a tiny bit obsolete because science now comprehends we have types of intelligence, and our wiki also comprehends it

And Batman may be competence and intelligence incarnate, but Kira could outplay someone who's more intelligent in the detective area, due to his comparable intelligence being more focused on that, so we shouldn't just say Kira is too dumb to do anything while we haven't even started saying how would Batman start operating with the little evidence he has

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I honestly can't think of a practical way for Batman other than the fact he would know who Kira is with extremely limited knowledge just by analyzing his psychological state as stated in his profile

He would figure out as i said above, his ideals, mindset, location, objective, complex among other stuff, upon figuring it out, i think he would just take him to the interrogation room by barging into his house with Light unable to process how he found him so easily

Edit: i still think this is kinda a stomp (sorry)

 

[Nonynho]

Look, this match involves the intelligence section more than anything.
Both characters are basically a sum of their intelligent feats, so

I honestly can't think of a practical way for Batman other than the fact he would know who Kira is with extremely limited knowledge just by analyzing his psychological state as stated in his profile

How?

He would figure out as i said above, his ideals, mindset, location, objective, complex among other stuff, upon figuring it out[...]

How??

i think he would just take him to the interrogation room by barging into his house with Light unable to process how he found him so easily

How????

He doesn't read thoughts like Anya, he does not get information from thin air, what's the process? what are the methods? what is the first approach?

 

[Aytugsss]

Batman can take this with mid effort.
Batman is way smarter than light and has way better equipments then L.
Batman can make them think he's dead and can find who is kira

 

[Nonynho]

Batman can take this with mid effort.
Batman is way smarter than light and has way better equipments then L.

Ok, this is a a way for us to start talking, though quite generalist so i must ask you to tell me more about how he uses said equipment to not just make Light hide better. Speaking of which...

Batman can make them think he's dead and can find who is kira

Presuming those two are connected and that Batman will play dead for Kira to reveal himself, this is just making things harder on Batman's side, because he ain't going to the places to check and if Batman keeps investigating with the police, Light just hides better because he knows someone has a bit of info and is on his tail inside the police (and will keep trying to discover who's Batman because of his limited prior knowledge helping here)

Y'all P L E A S E do Batman some justice by actually telling me how he acts here, "he wins mid diff" is not enough

 

[Aytugsss]

Ok, this is a a way for us to start talking, though quite generalist so i must ask you to tell me more about how he uses said equipment to not just make Light hide better. Speaking of which...


Presuming those two are connected and that Batman will play dead for Kira to reveal himself, this is just making things harder on Batman's side, because he ain't going to the places to check and if Batman keeps investigating with the police, Light just hides better because he knows someone has a bit of info and is on his tail inside the police (and will keep trying to discover who's Batman because of his limited prior knowledge helping here)

Y'all P L E A S E do Batman some justice by actually telling me how he acts here, "he wins mid diff" is not enough

İ cant explain all but
İf you look up batmans iq in his profiles its explain why i think he wins

 

[Nonynho]

İf you look up batmans iq in his profiles its explain why i think he wins

Intelligence feats reveal what they're capable of doing based solely on what they did

Batman never faced sudden heart attacks in Japan being due to a magical notebook in the hands of a maniac with god complex
So it is not "clearly just right there", because we have to think how he approaches the problem, how will he use the police for information, what will he be doing

"He just wins" doesn't justify W's or L's here in the wiki, nor stomps, as my dear colleague @XxZetsuxX claims

 

[Aytugsss]

Intelligence feats reveal what they're capable of doing based solely on what they did

Batman never faced sudden heart attacks in Japan being due to a magical notebook in the hands of a maniac with god complex
So it is not "clearly just right there", because we have to think how he approaches the problem, how will he use the police for information, what will he be doing

"He just wins" doesn't justify W's or L's here in the wiki, nor stomps, as my dear colleague @XxZetsuxX claims

İts not stomp
But batman still take this for me

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Batman takes this easily. And no, writing the name Batman won't work.
So yeah, voting Batman

 

[Hecky2222]

Batman takes this easily. And no, writing the name Batman won't work.
So yeah, voting Batman

 

[Hecky2222]

So it is not "clearly just right there", because we have to think how he approaches the problem, how will he use the police for information, what will he be doing

Batman doesn't need clear or huge help from police since lot of his detective runs were done by himself. I will drop some dope feats when I get free.

Also something like Death Hax isn't supernatural for DC Comics though. Bats with Zee/JL dealt with unnatural magic before.

On side note I can imagine how it would be good story/animation between Batman and Light Yagami since best Batman stories were about detective at all

Off topic but imagine Light discovering and writing Bruce js to realize Batman true name was Batman all along lmaooo

 

[Doggo]

in a outsmarting scenario, he would get no diffed by someone who completely obliterates him in manipulation, deception, planning, emotional intelligence, strategy and countering

Actually, high reasoning will let you see through manipulation, deception, strategy, and planning. It's the "durability" for outsmarting. Light obviously beats L in those categories, but L, with his high reasoning, could see through his tricks, wiht Light needing to go beyond with his schemes to finally kill him.

Also L is goated in countering and EQ.

Batman outclasses them both in any those categories tho

 

[Doggo]

Also, about who wins

Idk man.....Batman is a guy with a big build and is clearly good at building tech and is probably really rich in money, and is deeply obsessed with stopping crime sorta fits this dude called Bruce Wayne, who is not only muscular but owns a massive corporation that sells advanced tech and lost his parents during childhood which may or may not push him to use his resources and intellect to fight crime or something.

Batman may be smarter, but Light has the most advantageous side of the game. He simply needs to build a profile of Batman and search for any high-end individuals in Gotham that suit that profile. And Bru

Light is a good detective. L even considered him a worthy successor to his title as the world's greatest detective. So this isnt farfetch for him to do

Hilariously, Light can also use the DN on Bruce's Rogue's Gallery to control their actions and make them spill Batman's name since some of them know his identity.....

 

[Nonynho]

Specially by knowing he is an american vigilante he can narrow down the area he'll be searching for

And villains way less intelligent than Light have discovered it so it is not impossible for him to do it too


It's funny how Batman's got many many many feats but the actual first argument speaking of how someone wins here, is siding with Kira

 

[Aytugsss]

Specially by knowing he is an american vigilante he can narrow down the area he'll be searching for

And villains way less intelligent than Light have discovered it so it is not impossible for him to do it too


It's funny how Batman's got many many many feats but the actual first argument speaking of how someone wins here, is siding with Kira

How is this?
Light doesnt know who is batman and its easier for batman to find out who is kira
Bruce is extraordinary genius while light is only genius. İf you say L also has extraordinary genius, bruce also has way way much experience for this

 

[Nonynho]

How is this?
Light doesnt know who is batman and its easier for batman to find out who is kira
Bruce is extraordinary genius while light is only genius. İf you say L also has extraordinary genius, bruce also has way way much experience for this

Well, we actually talked about how would Kira be looking up Batman's identity
If it's so easier for Batman, please tell us how he does it

And yeah, Kira outplaying another EG who's more focused in detective work than Batman is still something we should count here

 

[Aytugsss]

Well, we actually talked about how would Kira be looking up Batman's identity
If it's so easier for Batman, please tell us how he does it

And yeah, Kira outplaying another EG who's more focused in detective work than Batman is still something we should count here

Batman is like L, but he has way more experience, he stated that he is the greatedt detevtive by ras ghul who lived centuries.
Batman can disguise his true identity as dead and gain way more time for light to find out and this is the %70 percent of why i think batman wins.
Also i dont know if you accept but batman aldo has supergenius in his other profiles because of batman who laugh(in other profiles writers confirm that bwl and batman has the same iq and skill)
So batman has every advantages.

 

[Nonynho]

Batman is like L, but he has way more experience, he stated that he is the greatedt detevtive by ras ghul who lived centuries.

statements aren't much, L's also stated as that and has said that Light could be the next one after him

Batman can disguise his true identity as dead and gain way more time for light to find out and this is the %70 percent of why i think batman wins.

As i said a while ago, this is only bringing up more difficulties for Batman since Light knows what happens inside the police and the info would leak, making him even more careful
And if Batman doesn't use the police, becomes harder and harder for him to have Light as a suspect, as the latter keeps improving more and more his methodology as the time passes

Also i dont know if you accept but batman aldo has supergenius in his other profiles because of batman who laugh(in other profiles writers confirm that bwl and batman has the same iq and skill)

Those statements come favoring a Batman of another universe entirely so this ain't fair to be used as an argument here

 

[Aytugsss]

As i said a while ago, this is only bringing up more difficulties for Batman since Light knows what happens inside the police and the info would leak, making him even more careful
And if Batman doesn't use the police, becomes harder and harder for him to have Light as a suspect, as the latter keeps improving more and more his methodology as the time passes

Batman disguise himself not just one, let alone bruce wayne, he can disguise death as batman and can operates more easily.
İf he make bruce death, police wouldnt know he faked his death
He dowant need to work with polices.
And when he faked his death again again, i dont think light find out it before batman find outs who is light

 

[Nonynho]

Batman disguise himself not just one, let alone bruce wayne, he can disguise death as batman and can operates more easily.
İf he make bruce death, police wouldnt know he faked his death
He dowant need to work with polices.

Well, by not working with the police, he'll have to search for Light's identity on his own with no other databases available, which Light has shown he has countermeasurements for, like the famous scene with the chips, using Misa and others, even before Batman knows it is a notebook, which took L a lot of time and resources to ouplay Light and know about when using the police

If Batman plays dead and Light gets remotely suspicious of Batman working again (not impossible as he's paranoid and also very intelligent), more and more countermeasurements lowering the suspicion up on Light can and will arise

And that's all while Light is actively working on discovering Batman's identity, which guys less smarter than him or Batman could pull off

and all of this while nobody even tries telling us WHAT will Batman actually be doing, just saying the expected results just happen

 

[Aytugsss]

Well, by not working with the police, he'll have to search for Light's identity on his own with no other databases available, which Light has shown he has countermeasurements for, like the famous scene with the chips, using Misa and others, even before Batman knows it is a notebook, which took L a lot of time and resources to ouplay Light and know about when using the police

If Batman plays dead and Light gets remotely suspicious of Batman working again (not impossible as he's paranoid and also very intelligent), more and more countermeasurements lowering the suspicion up on Light can and will arise

And that's all while Light is actively working on discovering Batman's identity, which guys less smarter than him or Batman could pull off

and all of this while nobody even tries telling us WHAT will Batman actually be doing, just saying the expected results just happen

Even tough i disagree most of your answer
İ let debate to the other people d who know batman better than me.

 

[Doggo]

How is this?
Light doesnt know who is batman and its easier for batman to find out who is kira
Bruce is extraordinary genius while light is only genius. İf you say L also has extraordinary genius, bruce also has way way much experience for this

This:

Batman is a guy with a big build and is clearly good at building tech and is probably really rich in money, and is deeply obsessed with stopping crime sorta fits this dude called Bruce Wayne, who is not only muscular but owns a massive corporation that sells advanced tech and lost his parents during childhood which may or may not push him to use his resources and intellect to fight crime or something.

Batman may be smarter, but Light has the most advantageous side of the game. He simply needs to build a profile of Batman and search for any high-end individuals in Gotham that suit that profile. And Bru

Light is a good detective. L even considered him a worthy successor to his title as the world's greatest detective. So this isnt farfetch for him to do

Hilariously, Light can also use the DN on Bruce's Rogue's Gallery to control their actions and make them spill Batman's name since some of them know his identity.....

 

[Aytugsss]

This:

My idea is still same
He can fake his death and outsmart light

 

[Doggo]

My idea is still same
He can fake his death and outsmart light

Faking his death won't work at all

It's gonna be awfully suspicious for Light if Bruce Wayne, one of the best suspects of Batman, suddenly dies. That's way too convenient and it's something Light would catch on.

 

[Aytugsss]

Faking his death won't work at all

It's gonna be awfully suspicious for Light if Bruce Wayne, one of the best suspects of Batman, suddenly dies. That's way too convenient and it's something Light would catch on.

Why you think batman cant make a good excuse?
He even faked death of his batman identity he can blow up a building or whatever while bruce shown to be inside
Batman is way smarter than light

 

[Doggo]

Why you think batman cant make a good excuse?
He even faked death of his batman identity he can blow up a building or whatever while bruce shown to be inside
Batman is way smarter than light

Again

Bruce is a major suspect in Light's eyes

If Bruce very conveniently dies the moment Batman and Kira start their war, that is gonna be suspicious. It does not matter if Bruce is seen within the building; the news of his death would already create suspsicion is Light's mind.

Also, being smarter than Light means nothing. You need to actually explain how Bruce reaches a certain outcome without just saying "he's smart".

 

[Aytugsss]

Again

Bruce is a major suspect in Light's eyes

If Bruce very conveniently dies the moment Batman and Kira start their war, that is gonna be suspicious. It does not matter if Bruce is seen within the building; the news of his death would already create suspsicion is Light's mind.

Also, being smarter than Light means nothing. You need to actually explain how Bruce reaches a certain outcome without just saying "he's smart".

You just assuming that light suspects bruce even in the star, which is not true.
İ Dont know what you guys thinking but why would light gain suspect about bruce so quickly? Every villian who faced batman has encountered him countless times and can find his real identity after that. And every villian has find out who is batman , is genius at minimum. İs light has prior knowledge about batman?
Batman also has vay better technology, he can use batcomputer, micro drones(in size of little bugs) with x rays and even a satellite.
İm saying again , batman is like L but more experienced and has way better technology.

 

[Doggo]

ou just assuming that light suspects bruce even in the star, which is not true.
İ Dont know what you guys thinking but why would light gain suspect about bruce so quickly?

Because I already explained why?

Batman:
-Lives in Gotham
-Muscular
-Obsessed with stopping crime
-Has advanced tech, therefore rich
-Has a lot of skill, therefore is rich enough to educate himself

Light simply needs to build a profile of Batman

Bruce Wayne:
-Lives in Gotham
-Muscular
-Lost his parents due to crime (possible motivation)
-Is rich and owns a company that sells advanced tech


And Bruce fits the bill

İs light has prior knowledge about batman?

By just....investigating

Batman also has vay better technology, he can use batcomputer, micro drones(in size of little bugs) with x rays and even a satellite.

Again explain how these help. Simply saying "better tech" or "smarter" is not gonna cut it

 

[Aytugsss]

Because I already explained why?

Batman:
-Lives in Gotham
-Muscular
-Obsessed with stopping crime
-Has advanced tech, therefore rich
-Has a lot of skill, therefore is rich enough to educate himself

Light simply needs to build a profile of Batman

Bruce Wayne:
-Lives in Gotham
-Muscular
-Lost his parents due to crime (possible motivation)
-Is rich and owns a company that sells advanced tech


And Bruce fits the bill


By just....investigating


Again explain how these help. Simply saying "better tech" or "smarter" is not gonna cut it

Bro he can find out about broadcasts about kira and can track light.
İ didnt really read or watched but ai says misa is send tapes about kira to television broad casts and batman can easily track her because he has a whole sattelite and dozens of mini drones with a computer that access to every camera ,database and police things.
Also the computer can predict enemies next move by doing mathematical calculate of probility.
Light needs time to make an suspect about bruce

 

[Chariot190]

Because I already explained why?

Batman:
-Lives in Gotham
-Muscular
-Obsessed with stopping crime
-Has advanced tech, therefore rich
-Has a lot of skill, therefore is rich enough to educate himself

Light simply needs to build a profile of Batman

Bruce Wayne:
-Lives in Gotham
-Muscular
-Lost his parents due to crime (possible motivation)
-Is rich and owns a company that sells advanced tech


And Bruce fits the bill


By just....investigating


Again explain how these help. Simply saying "better tech" or "smarter" is not gonna cut it

Batman has actively proven he isn't Bruce dozens of times and to the media.
He's crafted an alibi, I mean obviously, you came up with that yourself in minutes, most rogues have too so it's something he's made blatant isn't true.

There's also the issue that most people don't actually know Batman uses tech, many, including government agencies think he's a meta human like a vampire or demon.

Anyway Ryuk straight up screws Light over given Batman could sense, if not see him outright.
Batman is going to try to handle the case alone to start so the Japanese Police won't even know Batman is there yet, he'd quickly deduce the same stuff L did on his plane ride over, pull up every single record that fits, bring it down to a few dozen suspects and go stalk them out first quickly, probably hack into basic stuff like street cams too and would likely already suspect a supernatural killer given:
Batman: Gotham County Line (2005)
Batman: Gothic / Legends of the Dark Knight #6-10 (1990)
Batman/Deadman: Death and Glory (1996)
Batman: Dark Knight, Dark City / Batman #452-454 (1990)
Batman: Demon (1996)
Batman #540-541, "The Spectre of Vengeance" (1997)

That's to say, Batman basically solved a Kira-type case multiple times and he's only gotten way better since.

 

[Robo432343]

Joker>Kira

 

[Chariot190]

Joker>Kira

This is also unironically true.

 

[Doggo]

Batman has actively proven he isn't Bruce dozens of times and to the media.
He's crafted an alibi, I mean obviously, you came up with that yourself in minutes, most rogues have too so it's something he's made blatant isn't true.

There's also the issue that most people don't actually know Batman uses tech, many, including government agencies think he's a meta human like a vampire or demon.

Anyway Ryuk straight up screws Light over given Batman could sense, if not see him outright.
Batman is going to try to handle the case alone to start so the Japanese Police won't even know Batman is there yet, he'd quickly deduce the same stuff L did on his plane ride over, pull up every single record that fits, bring it down to a few dozen suspects and go stalk them out first quickly, probably hack into basic stuff like street cams too and would likely already suspect a supernatural killer given:
Batman: Gotham County Line (2005)
Batman: Gothic / Legends of the Dark Knight #6-10 (1990)
Batman/Deadman: Death and Glory (1996)
Batman: Dark Knight, Dark City / Batman #452-454 (1990)
Batman: Demon (1996)
Batman #540-541, "The Spectre of Vengeance" (1997)

That's to say, Batman basically solved a Kira-type case multiple times and he's only gotten way better since.

Yeah this what im looking for

Not "Smart" and "better tech"

 

[Doggo]

Bro he can find out about broadcasts about kira and can track light.
İ didnt really read or watched but ai says misa is send tapes about kira to television broad casts and batman can easily track her because he has a whole sattelite and dozens of mini drones with a computer that access to every camera ,database and police things.
Also the computer can predict enemies next move by doing mathematical calculate of probility.
Light needs time to make an suspect about bruce

Yeah Misa is an easy game to beat, but the OP clearly establishes that this is the start of the Kira case. So it takes some time for Misa to come. And Light can just kill Bruce if he suspects he is Batman.

Batman has actively proven he isn't Bruce dozens of times and to the media.

Huh, in that case touche.

But I do think Light would eventually narrow down the suspects (by killing other possible candidates) and probably start thinking "None of these guys are Batman and Bruce as a good alibi...what if". Granted, this means it will take LONG for Light to go after Bruce now, before I thought he was gonna zone in on him quickly. But Bruce probably catches Light before he starts to see through his alibis.


OP can you change this to Post-Timeskip Light (Basically Bruce replaces Near and Mello instead of L)? With L's resources, Mikami, Misa, Takaba, 2 notebooks, and his whole cult?