(3-4-0) Sans vs Vanilla Ice

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Also in Part 5 we literally see several occasions of Stands and Souls being interchangeable, I.e characters that Target Souls instead target Stands if someone has one, or characters with 2 Souls having 2 Stands.

For the target soul example, there is Soul Manipulation. I never denied the fact only one person can have one Stand.

You recognize the crossed-out thing was a argument for Cream, right? I know what Bloodlusting does, it frees the character from CIS and use their abilities to the best of their ability. I was jokingly pointing out how you guys are ignoring that he’s Bloodlusted and there’s probably someone better he can do to win, lol.

I was telling other people to reread the page.

 

[Daddybrawl]

He isn’t jumping, he would crawl and push himself in. That isn’t gonna be much harder then without it.

While being Ragdolled and attacked from both sides as well as underneath him? That’s going to result in a lot of damage and a Lot of KARMA, which may as well just have had him run into a Laser head-first, lol.

Also, Undertale Souls were never stated to be invisible or intangible, so even if we verse equalized like you said Sans would still not be able to hurt stands.

Dude, I already said this. Magic can harm Intangible things such as the Mad Dummy or Napstablook that are confirmed to be intangible, I’ve said this multiple times now. That was literally how you were supposed to beat the Mad Dummy, just keep having him attack himself until you win since you can’t hurt him.

For the target soul example, there is Soul Manipulation. I never denied the fact only one person can have one Stand.

I was telling other people to reread the page.

Ah, my bad, sorry. It’s hard to tell who’s talking to who, lol. I can’t quite understand what you mean about that first part though, could you rephrase that?

 

[00potato]

I mean sans’ attacks don’t cause you to flinch and rag dolling won’t stop someone from just, pulling themselves into a hole.

 

[Daddybrawl]

I mean sans’ attacks don’t cause you to flinch and rag dolling won’t stop someone from just, pulling themselves into a hole.

They will when they’re being tossed to the ground and/or left and right, while struggling to move due to Gravity Manip.

 

[00potato]

Gravity isn’t enough to prevent anything, Frisk can still jump with ease, so why wouldn’t VI be able to pull himself within a hole?

 

[Redite250]

Yeah, I know it can harm intangible things, but you said he could see and interact with souls, which are never stated to be invisible or intangible, and it takes more than regular NPI to be able to harm a stand. Also, Sans doesn't ragdoll right off the bat, and VI doesn't have to crawl inside Cream, he can just have Cream eat him.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Gravity isn’t enough to prevent anything, Frisk can still jump with ease, so why wouldn’t VI be able to pull himself within a hole?

Frisk actually can’t. If the 2d representation is 3d in reality, the Red SOUL (which normally Flies) is Frisk just moving around. If the Gravity makes Frisk‘s SOUL literally fall to the ground during the Battle Board, imagine what it does to make movement that hard in reality.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Yeah, I know it can harm intangible things, but you said he could see and interact with souls, which are never stated to be invisible or intangible, and it takes more than regular NPI to be able to harm a stand. Also, Sans doesn't ragdoll right off the bat, and VI doesn't have to crawl inside Cream, he can just have Cream eat him.

When Souls and Stands are literally interchangable on more than one occasion, it’s safe to assume being able to damage a Soul can damage a Stand. Also, he literally does, I provided a Scan- first thing he does is turn you Blue and slam you onto the Ground with Telekinesis, followed by his multitude of Danmaku Spam

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I can’t quite understand what you mean about that first part though, could you rephrase that?

The Stands could just be effecting the soul using special powers like Osiris which it's special power is to collect the souls of those of who lose.

 

[00potato]

So frisk can still move and he is just moving gravity in a certain direction besides down? It still doesn’t seem like a massive hinderance since Frisk can still push against it.
Still doesn’t seem like enough to prevent someone like VI from just, pulling up.

 

[Daddybrawl]

The Stands could just be effecting the soul using special powers like Osiris which it's special power is to collect the souls of those of who lose.

That is true. Let’s look at every Stand that affects the Soul, then.
Osiris and his Bro: After someone loses the gamble, they lose their Soul. A Stand isn’t even involved, so we never see what happens to it.
SCR: Swaps people’s bodies by swapping their Souls. Stands follow suit, and it can manipulate someone Stand against them with this ability. Therefore, Stands and Souls in this example are interchangeable.
Doppio and Divolo: Unique example, someone with 2 Souls. This person also has 2 Stands. Interesting. So here, the amount of Souls = the amount of Stands. Just a coincidence? I think not.
Black Sabbath: Pulls your Soul out of your Shadow to stab it with an Arrow. If you have a Stand, it instead pulls it out. So here, once again, Stands = Soul.
I can’t think of any more examples that are canon, but feel free to provide them for me.

So frisk can still move and he is just moving gravity in a certain direction besides down? It still doesn’t seem like a massive hinderance since Frisk can still push against it.
Still doesn’t seem like enough to prevent someone like VI from just, pulling up.

Anyone who’s fought Sans can tell you that the Gravity massively restricts movement. This is also a max-level Frisk, who one-shots everyone they see and massively up scales from 9-A whereas VI is just 8-C. Not much difference, and still massively restricts Movement either way.

 

[Redite250]

No, what i'm saying is that in undertale souls were never stated to be invisible or intangible, ghosts yeah, souls no, and again, regular NPI isn't enough to harm stands. And I don't consider slamming an opponent to the ground once ragdolling, it wouldn't do much is what I'm saying.

 

[Daddybrawl]

No, what i'm saying is that in undertale souls were never stated to be invisible or intangible, ghosts yeah, souls no, and again, regular NPI isn't enough to harm stands. And I don't consider slamming an opponent to the ground once ragdolling, it wouldn't do much is what I'm saying.

I mean, they’re Souls, which implies Invisibility. But I see what you mean with that bit- I’ll look into that a bit more. Either way, harming Ghosts and Souls should be enough to say they can Harm Stands, as Stands are literally interchangeable with Souls 60% of the time and Ghosts can still interact with Stands (Ghost Grabby Hands). Also, it shows that Sans does lead with Telekinesis, which can be used to Ragdoll as well as prevent Cream from eating VI.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Johnathan's Stand: DIO has the stand as a result of having Johnathan's body which was pierced by a arrow
All of the Joestar Bloodline's stands: As a result of DIO in Johnathan's body being pierced by a arrow, members of the Joestar bloodline gain Stands
When Diavolo turns into Doppio and vice versia, his physical body transforms accordingly. Stands are a result of the alien virus you mentioned above and hereditary gain.

SCR: Swaps people’s bodies by swapping their Souls. Stands follow suit, and it can manipulate someone Stand against them with this ability. Therefore, Stands and Souls in this example are interchangeable.

Stands are manifestations of people's fighting spirits and mind so when the soul is being swapped, the mind is also being swapped which the stand is a manifestation of.

Doppio and Divolo: Unique example, someone with 2 Souls. This person also has 2 Stands. Interesting. So here, the amount of Souls = the amount of Stands. Just a coincidence? I think not.

Doppio was given Epitaph by Diavolo and they're bodies (and characters) aren't the same.

Black Sabbath: Pulls your Soul out of your Shadow to stab it with an Arrow. If you have a Stand, it instead pulls it out. So here, once again, Stands = Soul.

Soul Manipulation and Stands have repeatable been shown to be able to interact with other stands.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump